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Author Topic: Dolby Atmos Dropouts  (Read 12218 times)

Manni

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Re: Dolby Atmos Dropouts
« Reply #100 on: August 01, 2023, 06:01:50 pm »

That looks like a driver problem and so I posted it here:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,24031.msg947226.html#msg947226

"Solved" sometimes means we know the cause and it's not JRiver.

@JimH, please could you share how you know that?

The latest nVidia driver supposedly fixes the Atmos dropout bug with the 3000 series and a HDMI 2.1 AVR, but:

1) I reported that the latest nVidia driver doesn't resolve my issue with the 3090 when using JRiver
2) I reported that many nVidia users with 2000, 3000 and 4000 series still had the issue (with or without JRiver)
3) I reported that I only experienced this issue with JRiver, never with MPC-BE or MPC-HC
4) You have another user who has the same issue but doesn't use nVidia and has also reported that he only experienced the dropouts with JRiver
5) A 1080ti using the same driver has no Atmos dropouts with JRiver (I played five full films with Atmos, not a single Atmos audi dropout).

@HTNut
Thanks for the information. It looks like our issue might have different causes, because in my case the GPU seem to be clearly a factor. I only have the issue with the 3090 and not with the 1080ti, using the same driver (latest studio) after a clean install with DRU.
I had the issue with MC29 and MC30 as well as MC30, so that's another difference if you were not experiencing it with MC30.

Worth trying WASAPI indeed, it might correct your issue.

I'm not putting the 3090 back to do further tests with other software, as the issue is apparently resolved and not connected to JRiver.

As far as I'm concerned though, it's not resolved given that I only found a workaround in reverting to my previous GPU.
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JimH

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Re: Dolby Atmos Dropouts [Solved]
« Reply #101 on: August 01, 2023, 06:32:45 pm »

Manni,
It's only my opinion.

If it works with an older card, it is probably the driver.

We're still collecting information.  There's not much certainty if it's not a common problem.

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Manni

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Re: Dolby Atmos Dropouts [Solved]
« Reply #102 on: August 01, 2023, 06:53:16 pm »

Manni,
It's only my opinion.

If it works with an older card, it is probably the driver.

We're still collecting information.  There's not much certainty if it's not a common problem.

No, it's not a driver problem, it's a hardware problem in my case (not in HTnut's case of course as we don't have the same GPU).

All the information about the Atmos dropout on Ampere (3000 series) points to an unfixable hardware issue. It looks like nVidia declared the bug resolved in a recent driver after having put it in their known bug list to try to avoid a class action. They realised it couldn't be fixed (at least not for all) after a year, so they declared it fixed.

Anyway, it's not a common problem and I guess I'll just have to use the workaround I found for now, which is to use the 1080ti (with the exact same driver I was using with the 3090).
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htnut

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Re: Dolby Atmos Dropouts [Solved]
« Reply #103 on: August 05, 2023, 01:14:33 am »

Please also try WASAPI.

Jim and Hendrik,

No dropouts in WASAPI mode.  But, my enthusiasm for MC31 is due to DirectSound bitstreaming being "fixed".  In my application I really need shared mode bitstreaming.

I also tested Zoom Player using DirectSound bitstreaming and NO dropouts, so this problem is unique to MC (or some setting/configuration I need to change). 

Can you suggest some troubleshooting steps I can try?  So far I've used three titles:  John Wick 4 UHD (Atomss); Blinded by the Light BD (Atmos); and Fargo BD (DTS-HD).  Machine is i3 with Iris integrated graphics, HDMI to a Denon AVR.
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Hendrik

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Re: Dolby Atmos Dropouts [Solved]
« Reply #104 on: August 05, 2023, 02:22:33 am »

Which exact version of MC31 are you actually using?
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htnut

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Re: Dolby Atmos Dropouts [Solved]
« Reply #105 on: August 05, 2023, 02:53:05 pm »

Which exact version of MC31 are you actually using?

31.0.36 (64 bit)
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Hendrik

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Re: Dolby Atmos Dropouts [Solved]
« Reply #106 on: August 05, 2023, 02:54:35 pm »

Update to 31.0.41 from here:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,136686.0.html

I improved the timing of DirectSound output in 31.0.37.
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htnut

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Re: Dolby Atmos Dropouts [Solved]
« Reply #107 on: August 05, 2023, 02:56:53 pm »

Update to 31.0.41 from here:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,136686.0.html

I improved the timing of DirectSound output in 31.0.37.

Just noticed that after I posted my reply  :)   Thank you.  I'll give the lastest v.41 a go tonight.
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htnut

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Re: Dolby Atmos Dropouts
« Reply #108 on: August 07, 2023, 01:07:39 am »

Update to 31.0.41 from here:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,136686.0.html

I improved the timing of DirectSound output in 31.0.37.

Unfortunately the audio dropouts continue.  We watched both The Equalizer (DTS-HD) and La La Land (Atmos).  To troubleshoot, I tried adjusting the "buffering" setting very low and very high (in device settings) and also changed "default channels" to "all channels".  Didn't make a difference.  Dropouts every 10-20 minutes typically but it seems to vary. 

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htnut

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Re: Dolby Atmos Dropouts
« Reply #109 on: August 09, 2023, 01:47:51 am »

Unfortunately the audio dropouts continue.  We watched both The Equalizer (DTS-HD) and La La Land (Atmos).  To troubleshoot, I tried adjusting the "buffering" setting very low and very high (in device settings) and also changed "default channels" to "all channels".  Didn't make a difference.  Dropouts every 10-20 minutes typically but it seems to vary.

Hendrik, any other suggestions I can try to solve the DirectSound dropouts?  Reminder, the same config (MadVR, LAV, DirectSound bitstreaming) in Zoom Player does not encounter these dropouts.
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htnut

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Re: Dolby Atmos Dropouts
« Reply #110 on: August 12, 2023, 03:52:33 pm »

Update to 31.0.41 from here:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,136686.0.html

I improved the timing of DirectSound output in 31.0.37.

Hendrik, is there continued research being done on this, or another troubleshooting method I should employ?
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Manni

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Re: Dolby Atmos Dropouts [Solved]
« Reply #111 on: August 23, 2023, 12:52:42 pm »

I did extended testing with the 1080ti and I can confirm that the 1080ti works fine with the Denon X8500HA, but only in WASAPI. I get Atmos audio dropouts in Direct Sound even with the 1080ti.

I wanted to do one last attempt with the 3090 as it annoyed me to have to use my old 1080ti, which is slower and uses more power.

I can confirm that with the same settings / drivers as the 1080ti, I get Atmos audio drops with the 3090 both in WASAPI and Direct Sound.

WHAT DIDN'T WORK:
As the issue seems to be connected to the HDMI 2.1 connection, I tried to move the 3090 to a HDMI 2.0 input on the AVR and limit the AVR bandwidth to HDMI 2.0 (18gbps) as well (HDMI Enhanced 4K instead of 8K). That didn't help.

I also took the HD Fury VROOM out of the chain, to make sure that it wasn't involved, and as expected it wasn't. Given that it's after the AVR (between the AVR and the JVC), it would have been very surprising if it could have an impact as it wasn't part of the audio chain.

I also tried to change the resolution to 16/24bits 192khz in the windows sound settings, that didn't help.

I tried to replace the nVidia HD Audio driver with the MS defaut HD Audio driver, didn't help either.

I clean installed (after DDU) the latest nVidia studio driver (536.99 DCH). That made no difference.

In the end though, I did manage to get it to work perfectly :) [EDIT: Unfortunately the drop outs came back, see my post further down].

WHAT WORKED:
First of all, against the general advice to use 1-3 frames in advance for madVR rendering with an Ampere GPU, I use 8 (windowed fullscreen in Win 11). This limits the number of video frames dropped / glitches to 1-2 per 2 hour movies. I'm set to RGB Full 8bits at 60p and RGB Full 12bits at 23p (as I'm limited to HDMI 2.0 bandwidth on the input I currently use on the X8500HA).

Note that I use D3D11 copyback (force to the 3090 in LAV video) so that I can get black bar detection in madVR, but native (automatic) works fine too.

I can use the normal power setting in the nVidia control panel (Managed 3D settings) as it doesn't seem to make a difference, but I kept vertical sync on as it eliminates the glitches/frame drop/repeats that you get otherwise.

What made the biggest difference (as far as I can tell) specifically re the Dolby Atmos audio dropouts is to select Dolby Atmos in the sound settings instead of 7.1. I had always used 7.1 previously (as I'm bitstreaming anyway and I don't use Atmos in games), without any problem, but for some reason the 7.1 setting seems to be what causes the Atmos Audio drop outs here with the 3090. I also installed and selected once the DTS:X sound format, as it's supposed to help. It might have as well. [EDIT: This was probably a coincidence and most likely has no effects on Atmos drop out, the setting has no effect when bitstreaming film content as it's probably only relevant with games, even stereo works fine with Atmos]

It took me quite a while to recommission this HTPC and get it at the level I wanted it to be, but given that it's also used as a gaming and editing PC, it was well worth spending the extra time to get the 3090 back in. I've played multiple Atmos titles, including very long ones (Lord of the Rings trilogy) with zero Atmos audio drop outs and only a few video frames dropped (which I consider as normal over a few hours), so I'm positive this is fixed this time. [No idea why I was able to play a few long films without Atmos audio drops or why they came back with the 3090].

Once I had verified that all was working fine, I undervolted the GPU using MSI Afterburner and the CPU (AMD Ryzen 5950X in ASRock X570 Creator) using the PBO2 in my BIOS to optimise power use, and it's all perfectly stable (and less hot), using less power than the 1080ti both in idle and during 4K UHD Playback. [EDIT: When the Atmos drop outs came back, I reverted back to no undervolting for the GPU and restored the pre-undervolting for the CPU and the Atmos drop outs were still there, so these changes are not the reason].

I haven't tested if this would work on the HDMI 2.1 input, as I prefer to use the HDMI 2.0 input for HTPC (I can't route the HDMI 2.1 input to Zone 2, which is what I use for my Sony HDMI headphones). I suspect it would work.

My GPU is a Zotac 3090 Trinity with 24GB or RAM, in case it matters.

I hope these troubleshooting tips and solutions will help others with the same issue and an nVidia GPU. Good luck everyone, and of course YMMV...

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htnut

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Re: Dolby Atmos Dropouts [Solved]
« Reply #112 on: September 03, 2023, 02:58:44 am »

With DirectSound, in MC31, all audio formats drop out at least a few times per movie. Not so with the same configuration with ZoomPlayer bitstreaming DirectSound… hoping a fix is coming…
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htnut

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Re: Dolby Atmos Dropouts [Solved]
« Reply #113 on: September 23, 2023, 01:25:56 am »

The “bug fix” that allows bitstreaming over DirectSound is the single feature I need and would be a reason for me to pay to upgrade to MC31. 

But, this issue where bitstreaming drops out from time to time over DirectSound makes it unusable for me.  Is this still being investigated/worked on I hope?
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Manni

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Re: Dolby Atmos Dropouts [Solved]
« Reply #114 on: September 23, 2023, 05:49:08 am »

Unfortunately, my issues with bitstreaming Atmos with MC31 came back with the 3090 (I edited my post above). I tried a 4070 that had the same issue, so I returned it and went back to my good old 1080ti (zero Atmos bitstream issue with it, I'm so glad I didn't sell it when I upgraded to the 3090!).

My understanding is that Nevcairiel (Hendrick) has recently improved Atmos bistream in the latest version of LAV (see https://github.com/Nevcairiel/LAVFilters/commits/master), not sure if it's been updated within JRiver. Apparently, it improves things with 3xxx GPUs but doesn't resolve them entirely. See https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1991850#post1991850 for details.

I'm staying with the 1080ti in the HTPC for now (the 3090 went into an E-GPU for my Dell XPS17). I'll make another attempt if anyone reports being able to consistently watch full-length feature films while bistreaming Atmos to a 3xxx through an HDMI 2.1 AVR. Although I believed on a couple of occasions it had gone after changing a few settings, it always came back here, hence why I'm back to the 1080ti.

The [Solved] in the title should really go away if based on any of my previous reports, as this is still a problem here with a 3xxx or 4xxx GPU, though I wouldn't say it's necessarily a JRiver MC problem, it could be a driver/LAV/OS/GPU problem as it's definitely linked to the hardware. Again, same software and same hardware, zero drop outs with 1080ti (WASAPI), drop outs with 3090 or 4070 (after a clean install of the drivers with DDU of course for each GPU swap).
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JimH

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Re: Dolby Atmos Dropouts [Solved]
« Reply #115 on: September 23, 2023, 10:45:01 am »

Solved means, in my opinion, that's it's not likely to be a JRiver issue.

It seems pretty clear that it's a driver problem.

You could start a new thread on anything you think is probably a JRiver problem.  Just link to this thread if you need to.

I hope you can understand why I don't want the team to chase problems that seem to be specific to certain hardware.  We're surrounded by companies who have deep pockets but still create driver problems.  Take a look at the last five or six problems (and solutions) in this thread, for example:  https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,24031.350.html
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Manni

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Re: Dolby Atmos Dropouts [Solved]
« Reply #116 on: September 23, 2023, 11:00:28 am »

Solved means, in my opinion, that's it's not likely to be a JRiver issue.

It seems pretty clear that it's a driver problem.

You could start a new thread on anything you think is probably a JRiver problem.  Just link to this thread if you need to.

I hope you can understand why I don't want the team to chase problems that seem to be specific to certain hardware.  We're surrounded by companies who have deep pockets but still create driver problems.  Take a look at the last five or six problems (and solutions) in this thread, for example:  https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,24031.350.html

I respectfully disagree.

LAV Filters is part of JRiver MC and the last version improves this issue (same GPU, same drivers, same OS) without fully resolving it. This shows that this issue is indirectly related to one part of MC.

I have already explained that this wasn't a driver issue, given that the SAME driver (latest at the time, 536.99) works fine with a 1080ti and doesn't with a 3090 or a 4070.

I do agree, however, that it's not necessarily a MC problem, as it could be a LAV issue only with some GPUs, but given that LAV is part of MC it's disingenuous to mark this problem as resolved.

Until someone posts that they have no Atmos drop out issue with MC 31 when bitstreaming, I believe that the [Solved] should be taken out.

However, I think it would be appropriate to either split the thread into solved parts (Murray, for example, apparently had issues because of a HDMI splitter and they went away when he got rid of it), so that part could be marked solved, and others users (HTNut, myself) who are STILL experiencing drop outs when bitstreaming Atmos, one with an Intel iGPU, myself with my 3090 (and a 4070 that I purchased exclusively to test if this issue is still present with the latest gen, as some people have reported). This would allow you to make this thread more specific (i.e. add "with some GPUs") in the title.

I think that those who report the issue as solved with the 4xxx gen (in the wider internet) are talking about something else (gaming for example).

I haven't found a single user who has been able to use a 3xxx (or a 4xxx) when bitstreaming Atmos film content without getting dropouts.

If anyone has, please post here with all your settings (OS, driver, LAV filter, etc).
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Hendrik

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Re: Dolby Atmos Dropouts [Solved]
« Reply #117 on: September 23, 2023, 11:17:55 am »

LAV Filters is part of JRiver MC and the last version improves this issue (same GPU, same drivers, same OS) without fully resolving it. This shows that this issue is indirectly related to one part of MC.

The latest LAV change is the same issue that was already fixed in MC before (in a different way). Its a particular bug that would always show up in the same scene in a movie, and on all hardware. That issue was resolved.
It would've similarly caused issues on your 1080Ti if it remained unfixed.

Swapping hardware fixing the remaining issues you have points quite clearly at the hardware or driver being at fault.
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htnut

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Re: Dolby Atmos Dropouts [Solved]
« Reply #118 on: September 23, 2023, 12:29:52 pm »

The latest LAV change is the same issue that was already fixed in MC before (in a different way). Its a particular bug that would always show up in the same scene in a movie, and on all hardware. That issue was resolved.
It would've similarly caused issues on your 1080Ti if it remained unfixed.

Swapping hardware fixing the remaining issues you have points quite clearly at the hardware or driver being at fault.
I’ve now tried three different machines, with different hardware, and get the same result:  bitstreaming over DirectSound delivers a dropout (accompanied by a visual hiccup not sure if it’s repeated or dropped frames) at least a few times during a 2 hour movie. 

Does not matter if I launch the movie in “menu mode” or “title mode”.

Zoom Player with the same configuration (MadVR/LAV over DirectSound) does NOT encounter the dropouts on those same 3 machines.  (But, ZP doesn’t have the same magical powers to use BD menus).

My most basic machine is an i3 with integrated Intel Iris graphics running W10, audio+video over HDMI 23.976hz through a Denon AVR. 
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Manni

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Re: Dolby Atmos Dropouts [Solved]
« Reply #119 on: September 23, 2023, 01:38:15 pm »

I’ve now tried three different machines, with different hardware, and get the same result:  bitstreaming over DirectSound delivers a dropout (accompanied by a visual hiccup not sure if it’s repeated or dropped frames) at least a few times during a 2 hour movie. 

Does not matter if I launch the movie in “menu mode” or “title mode”.

Zoom Player with the same configuration (MadVR/LAV over DirectSound) does NOT encounter the dropouts on those same 3 machines.  (But, ZP doesn’t have the same magical powers to use BD menus).

My most basic machine is an i3 with integrated Intel Iris graphics running W10, audio+video over HDMI 23.976hz through a Denon AVR.

Please could you list the hardware/OS combos that you've tried?
Also can you confirm if your issue is only with Direct Sound and if using WASAPI resolves it?

As reported earlier, I get drop outs with Direct Sound even with the 1080ti, so your issue might be different from the 3xxx/4xxx issue.
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JimH

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Re: Dolby Atmos Dropouts [Solved]
« Reply #120 on: September 24, 2023, 02:07:52 pm »

Please stay focused on the issue, without the editorializing.
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JimH

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Re: Dolby Atmos Dropouts [Solved]
« Reply #121 on: September 25, 2023, 01:03:12 am »

I do not believe that bitsteaming TrueHD and bitstreaming issues have all been solved by changing hardware.  The issues I have experienced seem to transcend Nvidia driver issues.   
When you are using bitstreaming, JRiver just gives the file to the audio device.  JRiver isn't playing the file.

A dropout in that case could just be a bandwidth problem.  The files can be very large and may exceed the capacity of the hardware.

Please start a separate thread.
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Hendrik

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Re: Dolby Atmos Dropouts [Solved]
« Reply #122 on: September 25, 2023, 02:49:05 am »

Does someone have a MC Log of a dropout happening with the latest version using WASAPI?
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htnut

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Re: Dolby Atmos Dropouts [Solved]
« Reply #123 on: September 25, 2023, 02:56:22 am »

Does someone have a MC Log of a dropout happening with the latest version using WASAPI?

Hendrik, dropouts are not encountered using WASAPI on my 3 machines.  Only DirectSound.  If a log would be useful please let me know how to capture it.  THANK YOU for continuing to look into this.

JimH, there was a bug in MC30 (and previous) Hendrik confirmed just fixed in MC31, allowing bitstreaming over DirectSound.  This is the functionality my setup requires.  Although it now works, there are audio dropouts every ~10 sometimes ~20 minutes.  ZoomPlayer with the same config (MadVR/LAV/DirectSound) does NOT encounter the dropouts - therefore I deduce there is something unique happening with MC31 + DirectSound.

Thank you.
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Manni

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Re: Dolby Atmos Dropouts [Solved]
« Reply #124 on: September 25, 2023, 03:04:19 am »

Does someone have a MC Log of a dropout happening with the latest version using WASAPI?

If you’re investigating this I’m happy to produce a log of the drop outs I encounter with WASAPI. I’ll try with the 3090 in the E-GPU first (sadly the 3060 dGPU in my Dell XPS 17 is unable to bitstream ATMOS at all), then with the 3090 in the HTPC (where the 1080ti has no issue) if I can’t reproduce these drop outs with the 3090 in the E-GPU (a Razer CoreX).

Please could you remind us or point to a link explaining how to generate the log you’re after? Thanks!
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Hendrik

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Re: Dolby Atmos Dropouts [Solved]
« Reply #125 on: September 25, 2023, 03:09:13 am »

For reference:
https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Logging

In summary:
- Turn on Logging in the Help menu
- Reproduce the issue
- Use "Report problem.." in the Help -> Logging dialog to generate a zip package with the log and attach it here or mail to hendrik at jriver
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Manni

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Re: Dolby Atmos Dropouts [Solved]
« Reply #126 on: September 25, 2023, 08:05:22 am »

For reference:
https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Logging

In summary:
- Turn on Logging in the Help menu
- Reproduce the issue
- Use "Report problem.." in the Help -> Logging dialog to generate a zip package with the log and attach it here or mail to hendrik at jriver

Thanks Hendrik.

I've done the following on my Dell XPS 17, as that's where the 3090 is currently installed, in a Razor Core X E-GPU:

- Disconnect from internet
- Uninstall all nVidia drivers with DDU
- Clean install of the latest studio drivers (537.42) without GeForce experience for the 3060 (E-GPU off)
- Power the E-GPU on
- Install of the same drivers for the 3090
- Internet switched back on

That's the standard procedure to make sure there is no conflict between the 3060 dGPU and the 3090 E-GPU.

The chain for the 3090 is:
3090 HDMI OUT >> Denon X8500HA HDMI 2.1 in >> HDMI 2.1 Out to HDFury VRROOM >> JVC NZ8 (RS 3100) or LG 4K Monitor.
I did lots of tests and it doesn't matter whether I use the LG or the JVCs, when the drop outs happen, they happen with either.
I've also tested without the HDFury VRROOM and it makes no difference re Atmos drop outs as it's after the AVR (so not part of the Audio chain).

From that point, I've changed the following settings in the nVidia Cpanel:
- Vsync on (necessary to get rid of glitches and frame drops with the 3090)
- Power: Prefer max performance (not strictly necessary, but just to err on the side of caution)
- Prefer nVidia GPU
- Reference desktop settings
- 4K23 RGB 8bits (I didn't use 12bits due to the nVidia driver issue, it's present in this configuration even though the e-GPU is connected to the HDMI 2.1 input on the X8500HA).

I used the latest version of JRiver MC 31 for my tests (build 54) and I selected JRVR Red October in the video settings, to rule out madVR and any of the custom settings I normally use. I selected the nVidia Audio device with WASAPI and bitstreaming enabled.

I played the film (John Wick 3, as I used it for my previous tests) from MC itself, I didn't launch it from CMC as I usually do, to rule out another potential (though unlikely) factor).

I used BD Menus because that's what I usually use. I also get the Atmos drop outs with direct play, so not a factor.

I waited for at least a minute after starting the film to make sure the the initial frame drops we get with JRiver are reset, so from minute 1 I had reset the usual initial frame drops and had 0/0 dropped repeated frames. I also checked that only the 3090 was used, which was the case, both the Intel iGPU and the 3060 dGPU had zero use.

I got typical results with the 3090 (it would be similar in the HTPC):
- after about 10 minutes, I get 2 frame drops and 1 repeated frame (visible).
- about one hour in, I get one additional frame drop.
- About one hour and 15 minutes in, I got 20 additional frame drops. It caused a freeze of the picture for almost a second. That's the main Atmos drop out, the one that I would not experience with the 1080ti and exactly the same settings, GPU driver and software. Usually, with madVR, I get more dropped frames than that. The drop out happened during a silent moment, so I saw the picture freeze for almost a second, but I didn't hear the Atmos drop out the way I would have if it had been a busier moment in the soundtrack. In any case, 20 frame drops at once is not normal or even typical.
- About 2 hours in, I got one more drop.

As you can see, there are no regular frame drops. There shouldn't be any as the refresh rate is exactly 23.976, but for some reason I always get a couple, which I can live with as long as there is no big Atmos drop out in the middle of the film.

With the 1080ti, I usually get a max of 2/3 frame drops per film, and I never get an Atmos drop out or a one second freeze. The only time when I get a repeat is with Pacific Rim, chapter 2 (one of my favorite stress tests as it's 1.78) , it's always at the same frame and it's caused by the content as it's entirely repeatable.

At the end of the film, the total was an unacceptable 24/1. I took a screenshot during the end credits (which caused another drop, so ignore that last one which brought the total to 25/1), see below.

As you might remember, when I did my initial tests, I had a few Atmos drop outs in the first 30 minutes of JW3, always at the same place. These do not happen anymore. I assume thanks to the fix you made to MC recently.

When I get an Atmos drop out, it's usually only one, and most often around the one hour mark. It can be a bit earlier (as early as 30 minutes in) or a bit later (as with this test, around 1 hour and 15 minutes). It doesn't always happen exactly at the same spot, unlike the other (corrected) issue.

I've sent you the ZIP with the log files by email, as requested.

Please don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions, and thank you for investigating this.

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Manni

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Re: Dolby Atmos Dropouts [Solved]
« Reply #127 on: September 25, 2023, 08:10:20 am »

In addition to the above, I forgot to say thanks for fixing the CTRL-J in order to display the stats with JRVR. Before, it was necessary to click on the screen for the shortcut to register (only with JRVR) and it doesn't seem to be the case anymore :).
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Manni

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Re: Dolby Atmos Dropouts [Solved]
« Reply #128 on: September 25, 2023, 11:20:50 am »

I've done more tests with MPC-Be, using the exact same config.

Another user (Klaus1189 on Doom9) asked in another thread to test with MCP-BE and its internal filters. That's not how I use it, but as I was testing, I though "why not?".
I installed the latest version of MPC-BE (1.6.9) and the latest version of MPC-VR (0.6.9.2117, which I used, again to rule out any potential madVR setting issue).
I set all the filters to the internal filters and enabled bitstreaming in the internal audio filter (all these internal filters look furiously like old LAV filters, but anyway).
I kept John Wick 3, not that I really wanted to watch it again for the 17th time, but for consistency in the tests.

MPC-BE with internal filters produced the worst results:
- After about 12 minutes, I got a micro audio drop (no frame drop/repeat visible or reported, just a brief pop in the speakers)
- After around 16 minutes, a big Atmos audio drop causing 158 dropped frames in one fell swoop (screenshot attached). That's the usual Atmos audio drop with 1-2 seconds of frozen picture before everything starts again (sound and pic in sync).

I then switched back to my normal configuration when using MPC-BE, which is using the last version of LAV Filters (I kept MPC-VR though, again for consistency and to rule out madVR). I had installed the latest 0.77.2.3 that includes the Atmos bitstream improvements.


This produced the best results, on a par with my previous experience with MPC-BE:
- No micro audio drop at 12 minutes
- No Atmos audio drop at 16 minutes
- 1 skipped frame at 44 minutes (1/0)
- 1 skipped frame at one hour (2/0)

MPC-BE with latest LAV is therefore the only combo that passed both video and audio tests with the 3090 E-GPU (no audio drop, Atmos or otherwise, and only 2 skipped frames in more than two hours, which is entirely acceptable even if not ideal).

This is exactly what I get with the 1080ti, both with MPC-BE and JRiver MC.

So these tests seem to confirm the following regarding the Dolby Atmos dropouts:

1) They are NOT caused by madVR as they also happen with JRVR and MPC-VR
2) They are not caused by the hardware or driver per se, given that it's possible to get no Audio dropouts when using MPC-BE instead of JRiver MC.
3) The version of LAV makes a big difference. Clearly using the internal filters in MCP-BE produces poor results, similar with using early MC 31 builds (before the Atmos bitstreaming improvements later ported to LAV 0.77.2.3).

It looks to me that givent the recent improvements to MC / LAV in this area (we went from 3/4 Atmos drop out in the first 30 minutes of JW3 to no drop out until around the hour mark), there might be a bit more to fix/improve in MC/LAV.

I attach, in that order, a screenshots showing the dropped frames with MPC-BE, just after the Atmos drop out around minute 16 for the internal filters (I stopped palyback after that) and during the end credits with MPC-BE using LAV external filters.

Hendrik, please could you confirm that you have received my email with the attached logs for JRiver MC?
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JimH

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Re: Dolby Atmos Dropouts [Solved]
« Reply #129 on: September 25, 2023, 11:26:09 am »

Same version of madVR?

Did you test with JRVR?
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Manni

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Re: Dolby Atmos Dropouts [Solved]
« Reply #130 on: September 25, 2023, 11:45:29 am »

Same version of madVR?

Did you test with JRVR?
I didn't use madVR for any test in order to rule it out as a possible cause.

I used JRVR with JRiver (Atmos drop outs) and MPC-VR with MPC-BE (Atmos drop outs with internal filters, no Atmos drop out with External LAV filters, latest 0.77.2.3 that improve Atmos bitstream).

So the issue is not caused by madVR, and the version of LAV Filters used can make a big difference.

I get similar results with madVR (no drops with MPC-BE, Atmos drop outs when using JRiver MC). This is only with a 3090 (or the 4070 I tested briefly), as I get no Atmos drop out issue with the 1080ti ever, including with MC31.

So the hardware plays a part, but the issue is not only the hardware or the driver, given that I get Atmos drop outs with JRiver MC 31 and not with MPC-BE, using the same driver and GPU.
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Hendrik

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Re: Dolby Atmos Dropouts [Solved]
« Reply #131 on: September 25, 2023, 11:46:49 am »

Hendrik, please could you confirm that you have received my email with the attached logs for JRiver MC?

Got the logs.
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Manni

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Re: Dolby Atmos Dropouts [Solved]
« Reply #132 on: September 25, 2023, 11:49:50 am »

Got the logs.

Great, thanks for the confirmation and looking forward to your thoughts.

It's good to know that I can reproduce this with the E-GPU, as it means I can run tests without having to swap GPUs in the HTPC (until this issue is hopefully resolved in MC).
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htnut

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Re: Dolby Atmos Dropouts [Solved]
« Reply #133 on: September 25, 2023, 12:26:30 pm »

Got the logs.

I'll get my logs to you tonight, with my DirectSound issue. Thank you.
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Manni

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Re: Dolby Atmos Dropouts [Solved]
« Reply #134 on: September 25, 2023, 02:22:04 pm »

SamuriHL reported audio drop outs in JRiver (WASAPI) with Atomic Blonde in DTS:X in the Doom9 thread, so I re-watched it with JRiver MC31 and JRVR. Everything else unchanged.

For info his setup is 3090 [correction: 3080] > HD Fury VRROM > video only to HDMI 2.1 OLED (I think) and audio only to HDMI 2.0 AVR. He gets Atmos audio drops like I do.

I didn't get any audio drop outs while playing Atomic Blonde, but I got more frame drops that I would find acceptable, so it might be related:

- 1 skipped frame around min 15 (1/0)
- 6 more skipped frames in one very visible chunk around minute 30 (7/0). That one could have been an audio drop with a few more frames.
- 1 more skipped frame around 1 hour and 15 min (8/0)
- 1 skipped one repeat around 1 hour and 50 min (9/1)

Screenshot below taken during the end credits and log sent by email to Hendrik.

Hendrik, please could you confirm you've got the second log?
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SamuriHL

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Re: Dolby Atmos Dropouts [Solved]
« Reply #135 on: September 25, 2023, 03:41:56 pm »

I've got a 3080 but I doubt it makes any difference.  My setup is:

HTPC 3080->HD Fury VRROOM -> AVR HDMI 2.0 audio out : LG G2 HDMI 2.1 VRR video out

Disabling VRR/gSync makes no difference.  I also do not get audio drops in any of my games (they all use ATMOS audio).  I only use JRiver MC for HTPC playback (I mean, OBVIOUSLY :D).  I do split between testing madvr and my normal viewing with JRVR.  Neither make any difference when it comes to the dropouts.

I did not have logging enabled last night watching Atomic Blonde, but I did have several dropouts with that which is DTS:X.  That's unusual as I almost never have DTS issues with this setup.  I will enable logging and capture it for all future sessions where I have dropouts.

EDIT:

One detail that I doubt matters but should probably mention here.  The VRROOM mutes audio to the LG display.  The output from the VRROOM to my AVR is through HDMI out on the VRROOM.  I can switch it between emulating 720p or 1080p although that has no bearing on the dropout issue.
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Hendrik

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Re: Dolby Atmos Dropouts [Solved]
« Reply #136 on: September 25, 2023, 04:12:41 pm »

If you are watching another movie, perhaps try increasing the WASAPI buffer size in the settings?

Options -> Audio -> Device Settings (should open a dialog)

Default is 100, maybe try 250.
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SamuriHL

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Re: Dolby Atmos Dropouts [Solved]
« Reply #137 on: September 25, 2023, 04:14:00 pm »

I can certainly try that.
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SamuriHL

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Re: Dolby Atmos Dropouts [Solved]
« Reply #138 on: September 25, 2023, 04:31:57 pm »

Setting it to 250 crashes JRiver.  Setting it back to 100 plays without crashing.  I have a zip file of logs from the crashing.  Just let me know how/where to send it.  I obviously couldn't test anything with it set that way.
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SamuriHL

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Re: Dolby Atmos Dropouts [Solved]
« Reply #139 on: September 25, 2023, 05:00:15 pm »

I have another log that was created during an audio dropout from an ATMOS track (Resident Evil Extinction).
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Manni

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Re: Dolby Atmos Dropouts [Solved]
« Reply #140 on: September 25, 2023, 05:09:25 pm »

Setting it to 250 crashes JRiver.  Setting it back to 100 plays without crashing.  I have a zip file of logs from the crashing.  Just let me know how/where to send it.  I obviously couldn't test anything with it set that way.

Same here. I get an error and playback stops. Setting it back to the default fixes it.
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Manni

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Re: Dolby Atmos Dropouts [Solved]
« Reply #141 on: September 25, 2023, 06:29:22 pm »

Here is a screenshot of the error with 250ms. I get this both with the 1080ti on the HTPC and the 3090 in the EGPU. I had tried this when trying various things to debug this Atmos issue a while back, so it's not new.
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SamuriHL

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Re: Dolby Atmos Dropouts [Solved]
« Reply #142 on: September 25, 2023, 06:40:05 pm »

At least you got an error.  For me JRiver just disappeared into the night.  LOL
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Manni

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Re: Dolby Atmos Dropouts [Solved]
« Reply #143 on: September 25, 2023, 06:43:18 pm »

I have another log that was created during an audio dropout from an ATMOS track (Resident Evil Extinction).

Do you also experience the Atmos drop outs around the hour mark, and is it usually just one?

It used to be more often and earlier, but the latest MC/LAV improvement reduced this to one drop out per film, usually around the one hour mark.
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SamuriHL

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Re: Dolby Atmos Dropouts [Solved]
« Reply #144 on: September 25, 2023, 06:45:45 pm »

Do you also experience the Atmos drop outs around the hour mark, and is it usually just one?

It used to be more often and earlier, but the latest MC/LAV improvement reduced this to one drop out per film, usually around the one hour mark.

They're all over the place for me.  In Resident Evil Extinction I got one about 10-15 minutes in, and then more after an hour or so.  No pattern I can see.
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Manni

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Re: Dolby Atmos Dropouts [Solved]
« Reply #145 on: September 25, 2023, 06:51:41 pm »

They're all over the place for me.  In Resident Evil Extinction I got one about 10-15 minutes in, and then more after an hour or so.  No pattern I can see.

And this is with MC31 build 54 and JRVR Red October?
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SamuriHL

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Re: Dolby Atmos Dropouts [Solved]
« Reply #146 on: September 25, 2023, 06:53:03 pm »

Yes on the build.  No on the JRVR at the moment, not that it matters.  I'm using madvr right now for testing.  JRVR exhibits the same issue though.
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Manni

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Re: Dolby Atmos Dropouts [Solved]
« Reply #147 on: September 25, 2023, 07:00:34 pm »

Yes on the build.  No on the JRVR at the moment, not that it matters.  I'm using madvr right now for testing.  JRVR exhibits the same issue though.

Yes but it would be interesting to narrow it down and see if you get the same results as I do with the closest possible configuration (OS, nVidia options, etc, see my long post/report above). I would suggest you enable V-sync and fixed monitor rate (no G-sync/VRR) to help debug and possibly reduce the number of drop outs.

I also have these droputs with both madVR and JRVR, but I think it's easier for Nev to debug and fix if we test and provide logs with JRVR. It rules out an entire part of possible issues/differences and it makes everything part of JRiver (MC, internal LAV and JRVR Red October). Hopefully, if the issue is solved with JRVR, it will be solved with madVR :)
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SamuriHL

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Re: Dolby Atmos Dropouts [Solved]
« Reply #148 on: September 25, 2023, 07:06:54 pm »

Unfortunately I don't have unlimited time to test right now.  Maybe this weekend I can run more tests in different conigurations.
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JimH

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Re: Dolby Atmos Dropouts [Solved]
« Reply #149 on: September 26, 2023, 04:53:49 am »

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