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Author Topic: Exit from Theater View  (Read 1383 times)

mcq

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Exit from Theater View
« on: December 01, 2023, 11:22:09 am »

Could we please have Minimise/Window/Maximise buttons top R on all screens in the Theatre View suite (tree)
They could either be permanent or appear 'on mouse over'

These are already implemented during Play and are very useful.

I spend all my time in Theatre view, 10ft away and with the remote - excellent, but occasionally an email pings, or some such, and it is very much easier to just pick up my wireless mouse, window MC, note the email and then maximise again.
I don't keep a keyboard to hand, a quick couple of mouse movements is all I need.
Thank you.
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JimH

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Re: Exit from Theater View
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2023, 01:31:28 pm »

I spend all my time in Theatre view, 10ft away and with the remote - excellent, but occasionally an email pings, or some such, and it is very much easier to just pick up my wireless mouse, window MC, note the email and then maximise again.
I don't keep a keyboard to hand, a quick couple of mouse movements is all I need.
Either an MC Remote or a keyboard would be better for Theater View.  You can quickly back out of it.
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mcq

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Re: Exit from Theater View
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2023, 12:48:50 pm »

I wasn't aware that any of the remote buttons was mapped to Min, Win, or Max - though it would be useful if all MC mapped buttons were tabled in Tools>Options for tweaking from default when required.
Even so, once windowed, the app can't be moved aside with the remote or the keyboard - it's what I use the mouse for.

There are 'Windows' k'board shortcuts which are to be expected in Windows apps - though they run the risk of losing focus, which is why the mouse is the preferred tool - see -
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/keyboard-shortcuts-in-windows-dcc61a57-8ff0-cffe-9796-cb9706c75eec
The opening line says - 'to do something that you’d typically do with a mouse.'

I really don't understand the reluctance to implement a normal 'Windows' function into what purports to be a 'Windows' app when it wouldn't interfere or impede any other user.
Making something more useful and easier to more people, surely can't be a bad thing.

Please can we have Min/Win/Max buttons on all Theatre View screens - not just when playing.
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tzr916

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Re: Exit from Theater View
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2023, 02:00:12 pm »

Have you tried the EXIT button on the MCE remote? That brings up the Exit Theater View (and other options).
I wasn't aware that any of the remote buttons was mapped to Min, Win, or Max...
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mcq

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Re: Exit from Theater View
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2023, 02:31:53 pm »

Hi @tzr916 - thanks for joining in.

MCE remotes don't have an Exit button - only a 'Back Button' - that takes you back through Theatre views, which if nested can be several presses.
Even then you're presented with Exit Theatre view - which is just what you don't want to do.

What we want to do is 'window' Theatre View from wherever it is (inc. play) without disturbing the view - move the window aside - then window back without disturbing the contents of the particular Theatre View - and to do that in the maximum of actions i.e. 3.

That is precisely what the mouse and the Min/Win/Max buttons enable you to do  - and therefore why it is so powerful - it's the essence of why Windows is so effective.

Hopefully you'll support the cause - thanks
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tzr916

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Re: Exit from Theater View
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2023, 02:52:24 pm »

Sorry, the button is actually called "CLEAR" on MCE remotes... I have it programmed to the Exit button on my Harmony Hub remote.

Currently there is no such thing as windowed theater view.
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mcq

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Re: Exit from Theater View
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2023, 03:10:44 pm »

Didn't know that - do you know which other buttons are programmed where?
Thank you

Anyway it still takes you to exiting Theatre View altogether - then - you need the mouse to window to find the underlying other app.
Then start again from the root of Theatre View.
The 'action counts' have gone up a lot by now!

Your last statement is the crux of the matter - can we have such a thing as windowed Theatre View please.

We do have it when playing which I regard as part of the Theatre View experience - and it works very well.
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tzr916

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Re: Exit from Theater View
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2023, 03:23:48 pm »

After pressing the MCE Clear button then choosing to Exit theater view, I see standard view but it may also go into display view if that's what was being used previously... Then I can use the Green button to get back into theater view. Personally, I don't have any use for a windowed theater view - seems odd.
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mcq

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Re: Exit from Theater View
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2023, 04:04:04 pm »

Well I guess we all have different experiences to relate to.

Taking your path -
Clear button and Exit Theatre View - gives exactly that - you've lost your position in Theatre view.
If like me you have 2600 files in Show > Recent and you were half way down, then - you don't want to have to start all over again - just to have flicked to an email and back.

Standard view is completely irrelevant and I don't ever need to see that except when I initially configure MC - that's why my windows start behaviour is in Theatre View.
Some people love Standard View and see it as the Holly Grail that you must 'touch' to do anything else - for those on the sofa it is completely irrelevant and in the way most of the time.
Different users need different experiences.

I still need the mouse to window Standard View to see what's below.

The Green button takes me back to the root of Theatre View - not where I was.

Windowing is the only way to preserve the previous view and return directly to it - which is why it exits in virtually every Windows app.

Can we please accommodate those that would find it invaluable - even if it is not so beneficial to others.

Thanks
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cncb

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Re: Exit from Theater View
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2023, 04:41:04 pm »

You can remap the Clear button to directly show Standard View and then remap a different button to directly show Theater View again which should not change your place in Theater View. You can test that this works as you want first by using the keyboard shortcuts.  Ctrl+digit changes the view. I don’t know offhand but something like Ctrl+1 for Standard View and Ctrl+3 for Theater View.
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mcq

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Re: Exit from Theater View
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2023, 05:22:54 pm »

Hi Craig - thanks for helping
Yes ctrl1 ctrl4 get me near - but I'm still then stuck in Standard View (un-necessary) simply to get access (with a mouse) to the minimise button, so as to get to the underlying app - then I need to return to Standard View in order to get 'focus' after which ctrl 4 'may' take me back to where I was.

Do I have to do re-mapping? I'm a user not a techie.

If we had Min/Win/Max buttons it would be 3 actions only, with only the mouse, no keyboard or remote.

I don't understand the reluctance to doing this as it doesn't impact any other aspect of the app.
Every other windows app I have behaves this way - as does the player already - it's a fundamental part of 'Windows' and windowing.

Why do I need to keep going via standard View when I don't need it except for access to Min/Win/Max buttons - does that hold water?
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cncb

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Re: Exit from Theater View
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2023, 06:27:21 pm »

Oh, I thought you wanted to go to Standard View.  You could try mapping ALT+TAB to a button and I think there is also a minimize command for MC. If you need help mapping buttons let us know.
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JimH

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Re: Exit from Theater View
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2023, 06:39:51 pm »

Ctrl-3 for Display View
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mcq

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Re: Exit from Theater View
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2023, 07:18:31 pm »

Craig

Alt+Tab at first seems to work - but only if you haven't moved to a different window underneath  - and it only gives me minimised but not windowed.

To the best of my knowledge you cannot use the keyboard to get back to your original window if you have changed the focus underneath more than once by just using Alt+ Tab.
That's exactly why only with a mouse and buttons can you do this simply and ergonomically.
Spare a thought also for those who may have an impairment, other than set-up they should only rarely have to use a keyboard - remote and mouse are the only tools they need and they can be used with either hand.
There are loads of guys on the MS web sites that have tried to do this but they all fail because of loss of focus or complexity.

The only simple straightforward way is as I requested - I simply don't understand why not.

Aside I would be interested in instructions for mapping remote buttons to MC functions, both a list of default mappings and how to alter.
As I said earlier, the best thing would be to have all the mapped and mappable buttons exposed in Tools>Options - then that would be straightforward.

01:07 here now - pressing the 'Sleep' button  :)

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Hendrik

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Re: Exit from Theater View
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2023, 02:34:02 am »

Theater View is not a normal window, its not designed to go in to "Windowed mode" or have window controls. Its not even designed to really be used with the mouse at all. It would be a rather major change to offer such functionality, which seems rather niche of a use-case when you could just quickly flip out of Theater View and back in when you are done with your email or such.
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mcq

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Re: Exit from Theater View
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2023, 10:30:25 am »

Hi Hendrik - thank you for joining.

Most of Theatre View's screens work very well with a mouse - except for the lack of windowing or minimising.

The vast majority of people use a mouse all the time, being either MS Windows or Mac users.
Indeed Standard view would be a nightmare without a mouse.

'Keyboard Shortcutters' are the niche folk in this world - not mouse users, by a very large factor - unless they're developers or coders.

That most Theatre View screens - except the player - haven't been 'Window mode' enabled is a fact of where we are, not really a reason for not doing it.

I don't believe it is necessary to re-arrange any of the screens involved.
By supporting the 'on mouse over' call, this can then float the small set of required buttons over the existing screen (pic) and then, since they then have focus, actioning the change.

With all the skills I see displayed in the various design functions of MC, I find it hard to believe that such a change would be that difficult.

If it really is, if, then would you please implement a poor mans 'half way house' where the 'on mouse over' function displays just a Minimise button  - that is much easier as the button simply has to action 'minimise' without the screens being modified in any way.
The mouse can then restore FS by clicking on it in the task bar.

That doesn't give windowing but it does speed up the actions required without losing one's position in the relevant Theatre view screen.
Equally important it does not require the use of keyboard and - thinking of others - only requires the use of one hand.

I'd appreciate it if you could take this on board please - thank you. 

P.S. - For some reason the Attachements and other options button, doesn't show the ability to attache a pic - I'll try and send it separately
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cncb

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Re: Exit from Theater View
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2023, 10:33:09 am »

@mcq  This works pretty well for me.  Go to Tools > Options > Remote control > Commands > Add.  Add a Minimize command as in the attached screenshot.  After you add this command, select it in the list, click on Start Learning, press a button on your remote control, and then click Stop Learning.  A Maximize command already exists, so learn a different button for this command.  Then, press the learned Minimize remote button to use your mouse in other programs and when done press the learned Maximize button on your remote to return to Theater View.

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mcq

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Re: Exit from Theater View
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2023, 10:56:14 am »

Thanks @cncb - I'll give that a try.

Do you have a list of buttons that are already mapped and to what functions please?

Incidentally how come you could add a pic and I can't - are there rights set on this page or something?
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mcq

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Re: Exit from Theater View
« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2023, 11:28:28 am »

@cncb

I see that the Run command is for MC32.exe, but the executable is MC31.exe

Is this intentional?

Does it also mean that this will have to be done for each MC revision or do you intend to incorporate Minimise it in the default list?

Even if it's in the default list - does the remote have to be re-learnt every time there's a change in MC?
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cncb

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Re: Exit from Theater View
« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2023, 12:12:58 pm »

Yes, "MC31.exe" will have to be changed when you upgrade the version, but you will just have to edit the command, not do it all over again.  There is no re-learning necessary.  We might be able to put Minimize in the default list.  I will have to check.

I don't know of a default mapping list.  You might just have to try the buttons.
 
Are you a new forum member?  You may just have to wait a while until you can attach images.

 
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mcq

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Re: Exit from Theater View
« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2023, 01:19:15 pm »

Been a forum member for 9 months.

On some posts I get the full 'Attachments and other options' with

Attach:
No file chosen (Clear Attachment)
(more attachments)
Allowed file types: txt, csv, jpg, gif, pdf, mpg, mp4, png, zip, rar, 7z, tgz, gz, bz2, jpeg, jvi, m3u
Restrictions: 6 per post, maximum total size 5000KB, maximum individual size 3000KB

On other posts such as this one the attach section is missing - seen it several times and a bit frustrating when one pic can do the job

Back to your example pic - should both entries be MC31 ?
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cncb

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Re: Exit from Theater View
« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2023, 02:50:46 pm »

Sorry, there is only 1 entry. The dialog in the background just shows what you have saved for the command in the foreground dialog which should be MC31.
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mcq

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Re: Exit from Theater View
« Reply #22 on: December 03, 2023, 02:52:08 pm »

Thanks - got it
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Hendrik

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Re: Exit from Theater View
« Reply #23 on: December 03, 2023, 04:53:30 pm »

I've fixed the permissions on this board, should allow attachments now.
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mcq

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Re: Exit from Theater View
« Reply #24 on: December 03, 2023, 05:35:33 pm »

Thanks Hendrik

Here's the picture I was trying to post earlier.

I am grateful to @cncb for his work around - though there are limitations - such as having to change the exe name per rev.

Ergonomically the 'On Mouse Over' would still be by far the best - even if you only implemented the 'Minimise' function.
It would then be there permanently and be the easiest to use.

So I'd be grateful if you would arrange for at least that to accompany Theatre View screens.

Many thanks 
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tzr916

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Re: Exit from Theater View
« Reply #25 on: December 03, 2023, 06:00:28 pm »

The vast majority of people use a mouse all the time, being either MS Windows or Mac users.

Not for 10 foot UI usage ie theater view.

I have four televisions that run theater view 100% of the time with an MCE remote, no mouse is even connected to them. When I need to do the once a month windows update, or occasional upgrading of MC versions, or adding new cover art to the MC Server, I do it via remote access from my laptop. I'll use standard view on my laptop when I need to do tagging or cleanup or organizing MC, or checking my email, or surfing the internet, etc... Don't think I've ever used theater view on my laptop, because I don't sit 10 feet away from my laptop  ;D
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mcq

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Re: Exit from Theater View
« Reply #26 on: December 03, 2023, 06:23:52 pm »

Hi @ tzr916

I understand and respect that.
Nevertheless other people will and do have different modus operandi.

As an example, I am currently sitting with JR Theatre View windowed on my PC with my mouse to hand - it's great but getting from there to, say the Guide,  or sifting through 2000 recorded programs or whatever would be easier if those other screens supported a Minimise button at least if I need to bob back to an email.
I use the mouse in these circumstances because 'spooling' through that many 'Shows' is fastest using the mouse scroll wheel as a page down function.

I'm missing the reason 'why not' - other than we currently don't.

For Windows users, a mouse is the automatic extension of their hand - the first thing they reach for - whilst at 10ft it is indeed the remote..

 
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mcq

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Re: Exit from Theater View
« Reply #27 on: December 03, 2023, 06:31:37 pm »

A P.S. regarding Alt+ Tab

This does not reveal the desktop, but if you come from Guide shows you any active window against the Guide background (not the Desktop).
Thus it does not truly minimise.

Again 00:30 so Sleep button being pressed.  ;)
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JimH

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Re: Exit from Theater View
« Reply #28 on: December 03, 2023, 10:22:17 pm »

mcq,
I don't agree.  A mouse used with a 10 foot interface seems awkward.
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mcq

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Re: Exit from Theater View
« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2023, 07:58:08 am »

When sitting 10ft away - then it's Theatre View and a remote for sure.

When sitting at my PC and wanting to watch Live TV or a recording whilst viewing emails, I start in Theatre View, go to either Guide or Shows, start the Player, then window it.
Thank God the Player supports Min/Win/Max!
If i want to change the material, I max the player to Guide or Shows press Esc and repeat the process.

I never use any of the other 'Views' except Standard when configuring, but I only need that very occasionally.

So it's always Theatre View wherever I am - 10ft or 3ft - just that at 3ft there's always a mouse in my hand.
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Yaobing

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Re: Exit from Theater View
« Reply #30 on: December 04, 2023, 09:32:45 am »

It seems to be so round-around, running Theater View, play, then go windowed.  If you want to watch it windowed, as you are at your computer, why not just use Standard View?
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mcq

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Re: Exit from Theater View
« Reply #31 on: December 04, 2023, 09:50:44 am »

Because the screens in Theatre View are so much nicer - my view - the Guide in Theatre View is a prime example
They're natural and logical to me - just the same as if I were using WMC.

A senior Product Manager at Microsoft told me once when I was at Seattle -

"Of course the designers and programmers never really know all the ways folk use our products - it's my job to understand how they like to work and make sure we give them as good an experience as possible." 
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mwillems

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Re: Exit from Theater View
« Reply #32 on: December 04, 2023, 09:57:00 am »

It seems to be so round-around, running Theater View, play, then go windowed.  If you want to watch it windowed, as you are at your computer, why not just use Standard View?

This was my reaction too.  It seems very odd to use a 10 Ft. interface designed for use with a remote control when sitting directly in front of the computer instead of using the interface designed for use with a mouse at close range (i.e. standard view). 

In any case there key chords that would solve this particular issue especially if used in combination (alt + tab and Ctrl + 1 and Ctrl + 3 have already been mentioned, but Win+down twice might also work to minimize the focused window, or Win+D).  For example, if you're in theater view and want to minimize it, press Ctrl+1, then follow it with Win+Down (maybe twice depending on whether standard view is maximized).  That will definitely minimize the window in at most three sets of keypresses.  Then you can reverse the process to get back to theater view (select Media center either by clicking or alt tabbing, then Ctrl + 4). 

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mcq

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Re: Exit from Theater View
« Reply #33 on: December 04, 2023, 10:26:07 am »

The Theatre View Guide is lovely and you can mouse around and play or record from it very easily with a mouse or remote - I don't like Standard View for choosing viewing.
I find it easiest to use Theatre View with either a remote at 10ft  or mouse at 3ft, that gives me consistency of look and feel, its layout order is configurable too - partially impaired folk would probably find Theatre View easiest too at either 3ft or 10ft.

You are right that Win+Down arrow should minimise - see -
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/keyboard-shortcuts-in-windows-dcc61a57-8ff0-cffe-9796-cb9706c75eec

But it has not been implemented in Theatre View Screens - which I'd argue it should be.

In my view windows apps should behave like windows apps in all views, and that means adopting the usual mechanisms.

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JimH

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Re: Exit from Theater View
« Reply #34 on: December 04, 2023, 10:32:01 am »

mcq,
Eventually, I hope you'll accept that JRiver Media Center and Windows Media Center are different, and we're not working just to make any one person's life easier or more intuitive.

We've put thousands of hours into the Theater View interface.  Positive changes for you may be negative for someone else.

When you have a request, please just make it. 
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gappie

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Re: Exit from Theater View
« Reply #35 on: December 04, 2023, 02:36:21 pm »

The Theatre View Guide is lovely and you can mouse around and play or record from it very easily with a mouse or remote - I don't like Standard View for choosing viewing.
I find it easiest to use Theatre View with either a remote at 10ft  or mouse at 3ft, that gives me consistency of look and feel, its layout order is configurable too - partially impaired folk would probably find Theatre View easiest too at either 3ft or 10ft.

You are right that Win+Down arrow should minimise - see -
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/keyboard-shortcuts-in-windows-dcc61a57-8ff0-cffe-9796-cb9706c75eec

But it has not been implemented in Theatre View Screens - which I'd argue it should be.

In my view windows apps should behave like windows apps in all views, and that means adopting the usual mechanisms.
i use theater view from close and with a remote. i like theater view 'at 3 ft' because i dont need a mouse. just the arrows and enter on my keyboard. and that works for me, very well. and esc 2 times or ctrl 1 to get back to standard.

 :)
gab
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mcq

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Re: Exit from Theater View
« Reply #36 on: December 04, 2023, 02:54:05 pm »

thanks @gappie - your use of Theatre View both close and at distance is reassuring.
You are right regarding key strokes - for personal reasons I just find a mouse in my right hand easier that's all.
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