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[BasMolly]

Hi everybody
Can someone please help?
I have a Topping D10s DAC which according to the seller can work with native DSD.
And JRiver Media Center 32 is also advertised as a solution for native DSD.
But so far I have not found a combination of settings which works.
I can find no step-by-step guide for a simple person like myself, on how to set it all up.
I'm lost !!!
Thanks for any help
Bas

[Awesome Donkey]

https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/DSD

1) Enable DSD bitstreaming in MC's Options > Audio > Settings > Bitstreaming set it from None to DSD.

2) If you specifically want to use native DSD over DoP you have to use the ASIO driver provided by the DAC manufacturer and set MC's Options > Audio > Audio Device > Device settings... and make sure DSD bitstream in DoP format isn't checked.

3) Make sure both system volume and internal MC volume is set to 100% (this is required for DSD bitstreaming to work).

4) In DSP Studio make sure Output Format > Output Encoding is set to None, do not use any of the DSD options for native DSD or DoP there as it will convert everything (PCM and DSD) to DSD, which is a pretty resource intensive task.

Worth noting there is no audible difference between using native DSD and DoP, the end result is exactly the same. The only reason to use native DSD over DoP is if your DAC supports DSD512 and you want to playback content at that resolution. Typically DACs only support up to DSD256 over DoP, as it's tied to the max PCM sample rate the DAC supports and I've yet to see any DACs that support a PCM sample rate of 1411.2 kHz which would be needed to support DSD512 over DoP. You'd have to refer to the DAC's manual to see what the maximum it supports via both native DSD and DoP.

[lkk]

I'm still preferred bit streaming native not DoP because it sound better and some of the manufacturer driver have limited sampling rate support on DoP.

To Improve your normal CD tracks can do up sampling to your max DAC can support. and turn on SoX resampling will give you more refined resample sound. to notice the difference few things must consider, USB to DAC cable, DAC & amp quality, interconnect cable between dac & amp, lastly the headphone and it cable also. with the right parts you can enjoy the superb details and silky smooth of high range frequency.

I wonder when media center can add in native DSD processing at least can do volume normalization and up-sampling like pcm tracks. if can after processed still can bit streaming it to DAC.

current media center can process the dsd is by convert it to pcm but with any conversion will lost in sound signature. regardless pcm to dsd or dsd to pcm.

1 last thing i would mention is can media center add high resampling rate 1536k & dsd1024 getting more DAC supporting that sampling rate now.

[Awesome Donkey]

There's no difference between DoP and native DSD sound wise, the end result is exactly the same at the DAC's end doing the decoding since bitstreaming is being used. The only difference between the two is delivery method but at the DAC's end when decoding the data is identical.

I personally wouldn't recommend most users to up sample CDs for example, it's a lossy process regardless if you use SoX or not. It just seems like a waste of resources with no real gain. Do a search of the forums for DSD1024, Jim has responded (and shot down) those requests in the past (since it's seemingly pointless), I would suspect his opinion on it hasn't changed since then. I also wouldn't expect any native DSD processing anytime soon (if ever), all media players I've seen still processes DSD with a PCM step in the middle. I would be surprised if that changes anytime soon if ever, IMO.

[JimH]

There's a Listening Test under the Tools menu.  It's worth trying to see if you really can hear differences.

[lkk]

Dop or dsd native, I only pick which ever can produce better sound.

For downsampling I agreed it is lossy process but for up sampling it is subject to the formulation and I don't know the formulas use in jriver so not sure it is lossy or not.

Any way whether it is lossy or not doesn't matter only concern is the sound quality playback on my device will it improve.

Don't need to bother too much of the technical side when the options is there just try it out if can improve the sound quality just use it.

[Awesome Donkey]

Except they're both the same, there's no difference between native DSD and DoP sound wise. Native DSD and DoP are only data delivery methods to the DAC, once it reaches the DAC and is decoded and played back by the DAC, the data is 1:1 exactly the same.

[lkk]

If USB audio transfer also like data transfer has error correction then it will be the same 1:1 DoP & DSD Native. Unfortunately in USB specification transferring data mode (USB flash drive) & transferring audio mode (USB DAC) isn't the same.

Data mode has error correction to assure all the packets transferred are correct, if any packet has CRC error device (USB flash drive) will request for resend.

Audio is under streaming mode. All data transferred to devices (DAC) cannot do error checking if request resend sound will pause, so under streaming mode will play whatever data received. Because of this reason the cable quality is very important if you want to listen to very high quality audio sound. Another word that doesn't want to miss any bit of sound from the source using an audio grade USB cable is the must.

There are tons of audio USB cables in the market. From affordable pricing to crazy expensive cables but I am very lucky I found a cable that meets my requirements without too many attempts of trying different cables.

My preferred DSD native is because let us assume my current USB cable is still not able to stream the audio data without loss then I only lost the sound quality of missing data in streaming. If using DoP any bit lost might cause the entire encapsulated packet or decapsulate to noise.

Of course for dsd 1x and CD 44.1k 16bits low bit rate might not be easy to notice the difference but when upsample to 705.6k 32bits (or even higher if JRiver added later) then there will be high chances of causing bit loss in transfer. Just a 5cm of USB extension cable also can notice the sound quality dropped in my current setup.


I would like to give a compliment to the JRiver engineers who have changed the audio processing following the upsampling rate not limited to 192k last time. These changes make the sound much better now. I just want to let you know that all the hard work has also had good results in return so keep it up.

Lastly, I have some ideas that can give JRiver a niche and others that are hard to compete with. If JRiver can put it off in the highest quality standard it might be able to revolutionize the audiophile market. For the meantime must improve the audio processing (DSP) modules using current available common hardware like SSE2, SSE4, AVX, AVX2, AVX512, even GPU and upcoming NUP if needed. The first step is to create the Delta Sigma Demodulator (dDSD) DSP.

The multi-process model is better than multithreading model to utilize the processor power like chrome browser (can refer to here for some ideals https://www.igvita.com/posa/high-performance-networking-in-google-chrome/)


PS: Give me some time to draft it out. I'm currently a bit tired of looking at screens for a long time since after twice brain tumor removal surgeries in Jan & July.

[mrboonmee]

Hi everybody
Can someone please help?
I have a Topping D10s DAC which according to the seller can work with native DSD.
And JRiver Media Center 32 is also advertised as a solution for native DSD.
But so far I have not found a combination of settings which works.
I can find no step-by-step guide for a simple person like myself, on how to set it all up.
I'm lost !!!
Thanks for any help
Bas

I had slightly better luck setting my DAC to NOS filter FWIW, not sure about Topping, do you have the ASIO driver installed? I can't get my iBasso to play DSD in JRiver yet, works in another app. Just DSD64 from SACD. going to read through all of this, might get lucky.