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[RobertW]

10:45 CST.

I was able to download the information for one CD but after that I keep getting "Failed to connect to YADB server."

Is this me or is the server down?  When I go to www.yadb.org the page comes up but if you click on Stats.  The page is blank.  Makes me think the server is down.

[John Gateley]

yes, it was down for about 15 minutes. A 1 minute upgrade got out of hand
It's back up now.

j

[DocLotus]

Just got to thinking...

Who owns YADB?

Where did it come from or who started it?

[JimH]

Doc,
Read All About It!

www.yadb.com

Jim

[KingSparta]

>> Just got to thinking...
Don't Hurt your self


Listening to: 'You Might Think' from 'The Best Of Cars' by 'Cars' on Media Jukebox Charted At 07 In 1984

[DocLotus]

Jim;

Thats totallly AWSOME!!

You mean to tell me that ONLY MJ users have added over 600,000 CD's to the database since MJ9 came out?

I find that hard to believe!

Looks like there had been about 7500 CD's added by MJ users.  Where did the other 600,000 CD's come from?

Was there a large "starter" group of CD's already present when YADB was first started up?

[KingSparta]

>> You mean to tell me that ONLY MJ users
>> have added over 600,000 CD's
No most came from FreeDB, but FreeDB's database is really trashed (Like CDDB), with dups and missing info and it had to be cleaned up allot.

many dups were deleted with Gateleys Maint Program, the rest were cleaned up by about 20 users (including me)

I Have been a bit lazy the last month and have not done really any work on it due to I have been normaly busy (and it may last another month). since i am working on a project of my own.

I also need to send off something to CDDB to get a copy of the Beta DLL's (the just sent me a e-mail last night)and if i can get it to work as a plugin In MJ9 (maybe) I might see what I can do.

who knows.

[DocLotus]

KingSparta;

Now I know.

GREAT JOB!!

Keep up the good work.

[John Gateley]

I'll second that : to all the people who have helped clean up, thanks!
http://www.yadb.com/stats.html

If you want to volunteer:
http://www.yadb.com/howto.html
It is fun, and there's no pressure.

And for some of y'all, a small note: I don't keep track of JRiver activity on the cleanup stats, but it is there too.

j

[DocLotus]

Am wondering... If only one other jukebox developer is still using CDDB, what are all the others now using...

* FreeDB?
* Their own (like JRiver).

Also, if everybody is using their own home-grown databases, this seems like a waste of data as any songs added by me will not show up on their database & worse yet, songs others add will not show up on YADB.

Seems like rather then everyone going their own way the industry needs one well maintained & FREE database that tens of thousands of users can add songs to thereby benefiting everyone.

Splinter groups seldom get it done as there is simply not enough input from a large enough group of users to effectively cover all ground.

Any thoughts on this?

[KingSparta]

I know some of them are using there own and some are using FreeDB.

It would be nice to see a bridge from sources, but that also leads into copywrite protection.

Like when Easy CD Creator Broke Free From CDDB CDDB sued them saying they stoled data from CDDB, basicly took the Album info from the CDDB database that is property that belongs to CDDB.

so i would not look at this data being shared, even more so if they charge for it.

[DocLotus]

Another thought...

Would it of not been easier for the 20 or so JRiver users maintaining YADB to simply apply their time to maintaining FreeDB.  I suspect there may be others trying to maintain FreeDB also, so them plus our 20 could clean up FreeDB & we would have a larger database (and much sooner) for everyone (not just JRiver users) to pull from.

Also...

Does JRiver have any plans to make the YADB available to non-JRiver users in the future.  Possibly a plug-in for other jukeboxes (would be great advertisement for JRiver).

Seems like we really need just one massive & accurate database for the whole industry.

Also...

Is there any attempt under way to get the record industry in general to enter all data (including cover art, & all liner notes) into a master (and free) database?  This would once & for all resolve the problem & seems like it should be a requirement of any record label before they can release a new recording or re-release an older recording. The RIAA (I know, that's a joke) should make this a requirement to all record companies.

Also...

Is there any effort under way (like a new law) to make it a requirement that all record companies must include the album data (including cover art & all liner notes) encoded on the CD in a industry-wide (and standard) format.  Seems like this would create a lot of good will for the record industry & maybe the RIAA could say they finally did something right (and good).

My final comment...

Getting CD information, cover art, & liner notes is the most irritating & time consuming part of using any jukebox.  There needs to be a concerted effort put forth to force this issue into the daylight & standards MUST eventually be adopted as I (and 99.999% of all jukebox) users simply don't have the time, endurance, & fortitude to continue to put up with this nonsense.

It seems to me there needs to be a consortium of all the jukebox developers working together on this one very irritating issue to push the record industry to take some serious action.

This reminds me of the early 80's when there were no standards for PC's.  Each software developer had to supply their own drivers for...

* Video screen drivers.
* Keyboard drivers.
* Printer drivers.
* Font sets.

Remember WordPerfect & Lotus 1-2-3 of the 80's?

Everyone had their own fonts & other drivers & one program could not talk to another.  Also you had a very hard time trying to get text from a word processor into Lotus 1-2-3 as they all had a different way of doing things & one program would not usually read another programs fonts.

Video used to also be a total mess with each video card manufacturer coming out with their own idea of how video should be handled.  This finally came to a head when 12 PC manufactures got together and formed the Video Standards Association (VSA) which finally set all the standards which we enjoy today.

I don't know about you, but I'm really sick of the BETAMax vis VHS or how about the non-standard quad sound of the 70's that went nowheres?

It wasn't until Windows 3.1 that it all came together with unified printer, screen, keyboard, and font standards.

We need real standards that really work & we need them now.  A fragmented jukebox industry is in no ones best interest.

Boy... when I get going, I can't stop!

[KingSparta]

Does JRiver have any plans to make the YADB available to non-JRiver users in the future.  Possibly a plug-in for other jukeboxes (would be great advertisement for JRiver).

Jimh Said Yes, Maybe Already on this

For The The Rest Of Your Message: No

[JimH]

Doc,
Working on freedb wouldn't help.  There is no connection.  The data in freedb wasn't very clean and a lot of work has gone into cleaning it up for yadb.

We may do a plugin and make it more open later.  Right now our emphasis is on making it work right for our own users.  We spent about a month, for instance, on building a track lookup mechanism.  What we have will recognize the music you have, regardless of the codec and bitrate you use.  It was not a trivial effort.  

A coalition of software developers won't help on cover art and liner notes.  These are copyrighted material belonging to the record label.  I suspect they would only allow it if they thought users were moving away from piracy.  Right now, the good guys are getting punished along with the, uh, less good.

We could easily add cover art, but it's not legal.

A lot of things would be easier to do if the law were clear and fair, and if users would abide by it.

[DocLotus]

Thanks for the feedback guys;

Sometimes the law sucks!

It's too darn bad there are so many crooks out there.

But, just maybe, if the record industry charged a reasonably price for CD's there would be less piracy.

And how about those very inflated DVD prices... I just payed $28.00 for a single DVD at Best Buy & felt like I was being ripped off by the industry.

I know many of the stores have complained to the industry about inflated pricing.

[DocLotus]

>> Working on freedb wouldn't help.  There is no connection.  The data in freedb wasn't very clean and a lot of work has gone into cleaning it up for yadb. <<

I don't understand.  Would not the time be the same for either as YADB initially came from FreeDB?

A plug-in sounds like a  great way to go.

>> A coalition of software developers won't help on cover art and liner notes.  These are copyrighted material belonging to the record label.  I suspect they would only allow it if they thought users were moving away from piracy.  Right now, the good guys are getting punished along with the, uh, less good.  <<

I don't believe this.  The cover art & liner notes are already provided with every CD & with todays very accurate copy methods it is no big deal to simply copy what is already there.  In fact that is what the pirates do.

[DocLotus]

Question...

Arn't we breaking the law by adding song titles, cover art, & liner notes into a music database?

Which brings up another question...

How does cover art get into a music database?  I have never seen anything on this.  Is it uploaded when we submit a new CD to the database.  Usually I add the cover art after I submit as the cover art does not stay until I go to properties (after the submitting process).

[KingSparta]

Coverart has nothing to do with YADB, and I can't tell you anything about it other than that.

[John Gateley]

>Would not the time be the same for either as YADB initially came from FreeDB?

No . I not only changed the data, I changed the format (DB vs. text files) and lookup routines (xml/http vs whatever freedb uses). Getting sweeping changes like this pushed through freedb would be difficult.

j

[DocLotus]

OK... I see.

But, it would be very nice if the industry could agree on ONE STANDARD.

Seems like another area for Microsoft to come in & dominate as standards are very much needed in music databases & are currently non-existent.

I know YADB is going to be a great music database but...

MC9 is the 11th jukebox program I have used through the years & who knows, I may in the future find another killer jukebox that I can't live without & leave JRiver.

As I went from one jukebox program to the other, I often had to completely re-build my database from scratch.  Very maddening & time consuming as most of us (at first) really did not understand the idea behind tagging, file formats, bit-rates, etc.

There is entirely too much work required in getting a large collection of music into the computer.  The whole process needs to be greatly simplified as most users (I would say 99.990%) simply do not understand the complexities or can make the large investment in time to do it at all.

When I tell most other computer friends that I have my whole CD collection on my computer, they just stare as they have no idea on this subject.  Even the ones that do attempt it, usually only add a few CD's then get bored with the whole process as few people have the discretionary time needed to complete such a daunting task.