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Author Topic: The wealth of MC9.1 features.  (Read 4513 times)

PhatPhreddy

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The wealth of MC9.1 features.
« on: December 05, 2003, 09:38:23 pm »

Just genuinely curious... Who uses MC9 for its full media abilities or who uses it for audio exclusively ??

I came to MJ / MC8 as an audio app... It was and is the best in class for that function.  I came on board and it is the single best audio app out there... I continually refer AVS users to it and have probably sold 100 licences by referal.  Especially great is native APE support and ASIO out of the box without plug ins.  HairStyle has great potential to be MCE like.  Then add on tools like Music Lobby, Glissando and Netremote and it has become the cornerstone of my HT's audio setup with wireless touchpad controllers operating from multiple nodes to control the music server.  its sweet.

In all that time I have NEVER used MC for DVD playback even though I am a HTPC nut.  I have never used the TV section.  I have never used anything other than audio related tools.

The one exception that I think fits with the audio tagging and databasing is the image tools, I have not used them as I dont take a lot of photos but I can see how this does syncronize nicely with the tagging / databasing features of MC.

I am just genuinely curious how many of us use MC9 purely for audio and how many use the other media abilites of MC ?? That answer will also no doubt be swayed by this being an enthusist forum and I would guess that far more of the non interact users are also music only...

It was discussed at one point that there was likely to be a MC9 lite which was audio only... Has this been scrapped ??

I guess its clear to see that I am not a fan of jack of all trades master of none application development.  MC9 is the audio playback and cataloging master IMHO... For DVD it pales compared to TT or ZP.. For TV it pales compared to dScaler... For PVR it pales compared to Sage / Snapstream.  I wonder if others feel like me and if many development hours are being used on sections that are of academic interest or curiosity value rather than a reason to buy.

I hope this does not come accross as critical... Its not, as an audio tool MC9 is head and shoulders above the rest.
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LisaRCT

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Re:The wealth of MC9.1 features.
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2003, 10:00:01 pm »

I will confess that since I have an ATi All-In-Wonder card I do occaisionally use MC for TV viewing.  Not that I think it is better than the software I got from ATi, but because I always seem to have MC open listening to music when I decide to click on Discovery, The Learning Channel or Comedy Central.

I primarily bought, and use, MC as an audio program.  I don't know that I'd choose to give up having the multi-media capabilities, but I do very much prefer that music be the driving force in MC development with the other stuff an added bonus.
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Bartabedian

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Re:The wealth of MC9.1 features.
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2003, 10:09:22 pm »

100% pure audio, playlisting and burning of MP3 data discs for the car. Period.

Everything else it does has TONS more competition with other apps that just plain do it better. MC as a tagger, imager, video playback, TV, etc is way overthought and complicated beyond needs. I have a life, I like to live it, I don't want to hypothesize over a programmers thought process.

WP
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Eiffel

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Re:The wealth of MC9.1 features.
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2003, 10:57:20 pm »

PhatPhreddy,

I have to agree with you: MC is a very good music playback and cataloguing engine (likely the best), but the other features (photo, video, TV) are not best in class... I only use them once in a while to see if there is something new that I'm interested in.

I will also say that some popular front ends look very attractive moving forward, as these products should soon include playback/cataloguing tools with most of the features I want (ASIO, lossless compression, etc), with an elegant interface for day to day usage. I'm not mentionning names... but you probably know what application(s) I'm talking about.

JRiver has some very talented programmers, but there are some other developpers who seem more nimble and more in touch with the needs of their 'customers'. I don't say this to bash JRiver, and intend this statement as constructive criticism.

Eiffel
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jakobluck

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Re:The wealth of MC9.1 features.
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2003, 01:25:07 am »

I use MC for audio and cataloguing and zoomplayer for video playback.

When I get the energy to do so, I'll probably use MC for photo cataloguing as well.
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rocketsauce

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Re:The wealth of MC9.1 features.
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2003, 01:54:26 am »

Audio only.

Since there has always been a TV and a VCR or DVD player in the same room as my pc, I don't really use it to watch TV or DVDs.

I don't have very much other types of multimedia on my pc. I don't use my pc to download or watch video clips or movies, etc.

I don't take a lot of digital pix. I do have quite a large collection of random pix I've saved from the web, though. I haven't gotten around to cataloguing them yet, but would probably choose to use a program designed specifically for that purpose that also integrates well with whatever photo editing software I use (ie., Photoshop).

Rob
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aussie1

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Re:The wealth of MC9.1 features.
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2003, 04:25:43 am »

Audio only.

I use ATI multimedia center to watch and record TV. Their software continues to improve. And I really do not have time to figure out all the codecs and settings necessary to optimize MC.

However, if I had a large collection of video, I'd like to put it in MC.
.
I still use a film camera. Once I convert to digital, I would like to use MC. But I would do a feature comparison with other packages first.

The main reason I would consider MC for video and images is the power of the database and the ease of accessing information.




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MachineHead

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Re:The wealth of MC9.1 features.
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2003, 04:47:56 am »

Audio. And its tools of course.

For me, the rest is mainly fluff. Your mileage may vary...
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zevele10

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Re:The wealth of MC9.1 features.
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2003, 04:57:56 am »

Audio ,only audio ,100% audio.

I do not know if the other fonctions are good or not...and i just don't care.

But i REALLY would like to make invisible for good all the stuff related to pictures and so one
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PhatPhreddy

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Re:The wealth of MC9.1 features.
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2003, 06:15:24 am »

Without wanting to come to any conclusions with only a small sample group I have to say I am actually surprised.. I suspected out in the wide world of users that MC was being used 80 - 90% as audio only but I figured here on interact the hardcore MC'ers would be more into all the features.

Given the responses so far it seems like others are like me... Its king of the hill for audio and thats the reason I bought it, the rest is novelty value at best.  

The one exception I can see being pictures... I dont use it personally but I dont take bundles of pics, if I did having a picture tagger and slideshow tool would be useful and here I can see a clear similarity with audio files.
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MachineHead

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Re:The wealth of MC9.1 features.
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2003, 06:28:08 am »

Quote
Its king of the hill for audio and thats the reason I bought it

Same here PhatPhreddy. There was a teaser thread a while back that asked if any would use an audio only version of MC. Hence MJ 9. Many would, but nothing ever became of it.

I'd like to see to at least check out an audio only version of MC. Hell, I might as well use an audio only version. I wouldn't lose any sleep over the other parts missing.
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zeltak

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Re:The wealth of MC9.1 features.
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2003, 06:30:10 am »

I also use mostly audio playback, but i also use it for divX and other pc based video files (but not DVD playback). the other functions like tv,pics etc i rarley use.  :)

Btw what is TT for dvd playback??

Zeltak 8)
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JimH

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Re:The wealth of MC9.1 features.
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2003, 07:12:21 am »

Without denying the wisdom of PP, I would point out that you can see people starting to use other features, even in this thread.  Even PP said

"The one exception I can see being pictures... "

The market changes.  We're aiming fairly far ahead.

You can also click one button in MC 10 and get an audio only version.
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MachineHead

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Re:The wealth of MC9.1 features.
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2003, 07:15:53 am »

You can also click one button in MC 10 and get an audio only version.

But we have to pay forty bucks to get that feature? It's obvious that it could just as easily be implemented in MC 9.1 right now. I don't think that carrot is tempting enough for me at this point.
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JimH

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Re:The wealth of MC9.1 features.
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2003, 07:21:06 am »

You can also click one button in MC 10 and get an audio only version.

But we have to pay forty bucks to get that feature?
No, you don't.  You can use MJ8.
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MachineHead

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Re:The wealth of MC9.1 features.
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2003, 07:26:41 am »

Come on Jim. I'm one who will most likely pony up anyway. But this could, and should, be an option now.

PS - Not much of sales pitch there...
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KingSparta

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Re:The wealth of MC9.1 features.
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2003, 07:29:58 am »

Quote
PS - Not much of sales pitch there...

That is the old school of sales
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MachineHead

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Re:The wealth of MC9.1 features.
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2003, 07:32:44 am »

Quote
PS - Not much of sales pitch there...

That is the old school of sales

What's that? Like it or lump it....
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zevele10

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Re:The wealth of MC9.1 features.
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2003, 07:32:47 am »

But we do not have to pay $40 to get MC ,if we have a MC9 licence.
Just an upgrade.

Od i understand even less than i think.....

Now ,NORMAL

MANY want this fonction?
Put it in the NEXT MC
The will upgrade.

Do not see anything wrong in it.

After all

JRiver IS NOT A CHARITY SHOP.

Basta , going ofline for 2 days ,knowing that i will upgrade to MC10 ONLY to be able to set it to audio only.

See you soon
Have a nice week-end
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Bartabedian

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Re:The wealth of MC9.1 features.
« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2003, 07:36:15 am »

Without denying the wisdom of PP, I would point out that you can see people starting to use other features, even in this thread.  Even PP said

"The one exception I can see being pictures... "

The market changes.  We're aiming fairly far ahead.

Are we reading the same thread? I don't get what you're projecting, or maybe it's just biased wishful thinking on you're part. I see a whole lot of audio audio audio, and some people venturing to try other options that they wouldn't miss at all if they didn't exist in MC, they would just have other apps to happily do the same things.  And given the amount of time and effort placed on extraneous features that could have been put into simplistic and stable audio features, one must wonder, loudly, what could have been? Once again, I see JRiver overthinking the issues and making the situation more complicated than it need be.

WP
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Jaguu

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Re:The wealth of MC9.1 features.
« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2003, 07:54:53 am »

I started with MC7 and audio. After ripping and cataloguing my cd collection (mainly classical and new age) it turned out, that I am not such a music aficionado as I imagined: I do no listen to music 24 hours a day, maybe 1 or 2 hours and not every day.

I am more kind of a visual guy and real image junkie, I can drink the athmosphere of a landscape or artwork the same way as other people drink red wine. So as MJ8 developed into MC9 I added images. I do not take many pictures myself, but I put together a fairly large collection of about 10'000 images from the internet (divided in artworks, architecture and landscapes).

MC9 is great as it gives me an easy way to tag and organize my image collection very easily and allows me to create music/slideshow playlists easily. Most image viewers on the market are still tree oriented and not tag oriented.

I also liked TV and Web radio integration, but they are in a way too complex to handle and don't integrate very well with the rest of the product. I would expect from a TV channel scanner to automatically name the channels with their official name and select the optimal channel. And about web radio, well there were plenty of complains already.

I tried Hairstyle and different remote controls such as IRman and X10 Mouse Remote, but they are too clunky to use efficiently. Response to remote commands is either too fast or too slow and very limited although now (without the need of Girder) quite easy to setup.

Concerning images, it still has some limitations. Basically I can only catalog them, run slide shows and put them on a web server. I cannot use my images as screen saver, wallpaper cycling, cannot save a slideshow to an independent exe file, burn it to a cd and share it with others, such as an autorun slideshow on a cd with some nice startup menu and settings. I have to use other apps for that, but then I loose all the tagging information. And for my screen saver and wallpaper I need to manage another set of images. That's double work!

I feel J River should split development and build a very strong, sharable database oriented Media Center back end with different front end tools to integrate for different needs. This frontend tools could be developed independently and also sold separately. So the idea of "One for all" would change into something like "One supporting many". I also feel product differentiation would add revenues to J River, as people would buy what they want to integrate and having an excellent back end would be willing to pay higher prices. I feel the value of MC9.1 is far over 100 US if all components would be as perfect as possible. But then again, not everybody needs or wants everything.

I also noticed that enthusiasm for developing plugins and other add-ons has dropped significantly compared to one or two years ago. There was too much of a zig-zag course as anybody could be willing to adapt their tools all the time to new developments (Skins need to be adapted all the time, as changes there occur quite often). We had plenty of skins with MJ8 and even with MC9.0, but very few now. Mini-me development has been standing still for quite a while. Plugin and Addons development flourishes only where stable conditions can be found. Here everybody can learn from Microsoft.

This is not kind of criticism, I simply can't imagine people spending soo much time writing posts if they would not really love and appreciate the product unless they have nothing else to do, especially when they express some kind of dissatisfaction. And it is also well known that a small minority only expresses dissatisfaction, the rest just moves on to something else. Or do you really bother to complain about bad food in a restaurant? You pay and never show up there again. But if you get bad food in the restaurant you love most and use to frequent most of the time, you probably will say something.


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JimH

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Re:The wealth of MC9.1 features.
« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2003, 08:39:28 am »

Jaguu,
Your thinking is close to my own.

Jim
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PhatPhreddy

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Re:The wealth of MC9.1 features.
« Reply #22 on: December 06, 2003, 09:03:01 am »

I may be readin far far too much into a one line reply but it does make me think back to discussion here on a modular solution.

Eg

MC Core including audio = $20
MC HairStyle = $5
MC DVD = $5
MC Pictures = $5
MC Tivo streaming = $5
MC TV = $5

Etc...

This would have additional registration hassles but in turn it would provide precise feedback as to what is popular enough to pay for... This way if you get x dollars in from a Tivo streaming function you can allocate x development time to it... Simplicity itself and as in any good free market system gets the largest satisfaction as by definition the majority vote rules.
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Mirko

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Re:The wealth of MC9.1 features.
« Reply #23 on: December 06, 2003, 09:03:21 am »

I use MC for audio, pictures and videos (pop- & artvideos).

Mirko
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Doof

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Re:The wealth of MC9.1 features.
« Reply #24 on: December 06, 2003, 09:48:55 am »

I came looking for an app that handles music and video and found it in MJ.

MC adding picture support was just gravy.
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lise

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Re:The wealth of MC9.1 features.
« Reply #25 on: December 06, 2003, 04:20:48 pm »

Forward thinking (in software, at least) means creating something before people ask for it. J River has always done that. MJ 5 or 6 was the only mp3 player out there that allowed you to add categories to your music. You probably wouldn't know you could do that until you tried MJ.  

I like the idea of having one program deal with everything. And now that I'm getting a DiGiMATRiX Entertainment PC  http://usa.asus.com/products/desktop/digimatrix/overview.htm for Christmas, I can't wait to noodle with all those MC features I haven't been able to use before.

If it turns out that the native software does things better, then I'll just post here, and Matt and the gang will improve that area of MC.  I've always have faith in these guys and gals; not gonna stop now
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kiwi

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Re:The wealth of MC9.1 features.
« Reply #26 on: December 07, 2003, 02:16:30 am »

I figured I'd throw in my 2 cents.

Audio : Right now, MediaCenter has become my 100% audio source in my hifi system.  I'm getting a new sound card... either an M-Audio Firewire410 or RME HDSP-9632.

Images : I'm currently experimenting with MC for organizing all of my digital images.  I think that it should do what I need, it's just a matter of time testing it out.

Video : I would really like to be able to use MC for all of my Video source needs.  In particular, I want to be able to rip all of my DVDs, get cover art and store information about the DVDs.  Right now, it works, but it's not as smooth as it should be.  Additionally, I'd like to have some more control over the playback of DVDs.  

So,  at the moment, I'm probably 90% audio 10% Video/Images.  However, I can easily see myself shifting to 60% A 40% V with improvements over the video side.

That said, the two systems will probably be separate...  so i'd love to have a system that could be customized (or is already customized) to have an audio mode and video mode.

kiwi
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NoCodeUK

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Re:The wealth of MC9.1 features.
« Reply #27 on: December 08, 2003, 04:09:16 am »

I agree with both Jaguu and kiwi and reading their posts got me thinking.  The new Media Modes paradigm could be extended so that the interface 'changes' to accomodate that particular mode...when you click on audio the playback controls refelct audio playback, when you click on video they change to reflect video playback.  Images changes so that there are image sepcific buttons. The All mode should be the same as it is currently.  In this case MC could become like 3 separate programs but all integrated into the one 'core'.  As an example I would expect the Video/DVD section to allow me to ff/rw my video at different speeds, jump to different chapters, return to the root menu of a DVD etc...these are obviously all things that would be irrelevant to me when playing MP3 and therefore would not be present in the 'audio' mode...

Just a few thoughts...when I get home I will have a more serious think about what Ireally mean and present my ideas...

Adam
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Chris Shaw

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Re:The wealth of MC9.1 features.
« Reply #28 on: December 08, 2003, 06:56:21 pm »

I use MC for all my audio, plus for DivX/MPEG playback and images. I never use the TV, since my PC output runs to my TV anyway. I've been meaning to experiment with the timeshifting, but I'll probably just end up getting Sky+
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nila

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Re:The wealth of MC9.1 features.
« Reply #29 on: December 09, 2003, 05:40:44 am »

I have all my holliday photo's imported into MC - around 10,000 and plan to use it to tag and manage them all nicely.

Right now it's lacking with image controls for playback - especially when audio is playing as we lose most control over the images - MC seems to decide that we care more about the audio than the images - sometimes for me the audio is just the BG Music with the images being the main thing I want to deal with. I'd love to be able to press a button and have the playlist toggle to the images instead of the songs.

I love the Album Art view but feel it lacks in customisability and some controls - I have no control over what information is displayed which somewhat defeats it for me and also having to then toggle back to details to see all the track info kills it too.

I dont use all the features in MC - no TV, web radio etc but I def. appreciate the ability of them being there. Having said that, I'd prefer the choice to pay more when I later needed them to have the feature then activated as an add on rather than having to pay for the features even when I'm not using them.

As digital cameras get cheaper as well people are going to need to manage their images more so it'll get used more and more.

I got MC for it's audio support but love the addition of images. I just hope they're given more power and become as important as the audio.


Having said that thou - for me MC is a db tool for my images - it'd never replace ACDSee as my browser and quite frankly I dont want it to - I want it as a db tool.
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Mirko

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Re:The wealth of MC9.1 features.
« Reply #30 on: December 09, 2003, 06:03:35 am »

I love the Album Art view but feel it lacks in customisability and some controls - I have no control over what information is displayed which somewhat defeats it for me and also having to then toggle back to details to see all the track info kills it too.

I don't use album view at all.

I dont use all the features in MC - no TV, web radio etc but I def. appreciate the ability of them being there. Having said that, I'd prefer the choice to pay more when I later needed them to have the feature then activated as an add on rather than having to pay for the features even when I'm not using them.

Problem might be as with the social systems in politics: you have to pay for anyone else who cannot pay as much as you can. I think this could also be transfered to MC.

Having said that thou - for me MC is a db tool for my images - it'd never replace ACDSee as my browser and quite frankly I dont want it to - I want it as a db tool.

If MC has a special mode for browsing only without importing anything from the browsing (no, even not the thumbnails - store them anywhere else) it could easily replace my ACDSee-installation as I don't use any special functions of it (just the browsing).
I would vote for better printing facility (e.g. like the one build into windows explorer which lets me resize images on the run and so on).

Mirko

P.S. I just quoted Nila so often to show the very different point of views any user has on the same functions of MC - there will be no "common" functions.
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_K_C_

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Re:The wealth of MC9.1 features.
« Reply #31 on: December 09, 2003, 08:48:47 am »

I came to MC for audio (in fact because of PP's recommendation over on avsforum) and still use it overwhelmingly for that.

I can easily imagine using MC for images - MC's current strength is applying metadata to data files.  I think the way people want to use audio files and photographs are similar in that sense.

I can also imagine using MC for music videos - either DVD VOB files or mpg/divx recordings from the TV.  Again, the advantage of MC is in adding the metadata that allows cataloguing and retrieval of the files you want.

BUT

For TV and DVD, Snapstream and TheaterTek are just so far ahead of MC that there's really no comparison.

MC is weak on TV and DVD playback:
- picture quality (dScaler, ffdshow, Theatertek all knock spots (sometimes literally  ;D ) off MC)
- TV-usable front end (snapstream or Theatertek again)
- other usability enhancements like resuming from where you left off - again both snapstream and Theatertek have this.  For long videos this is an absolute must.

This absolutely isn't a complaint about MC.  For USD40 I think it's well worth it for the audio features alone, and as long as they keep being updated, I'll keep upgrading.  I look at it as the cost of 2 CDs, and the added value it brings to my music listening is WAY more than that.

I'm happy that JRiver are looking ahead as to how they can improve and expand MC, provided that they keep up their leadership on audio.  At the moment, I see no danger at all of that not happening.

Realistically they're going to have a hard life catching up with some of the standalone products.  But competition is a good thing  ;D

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shAf

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Re:The wealth of MC9.1 features.
« Reply #32 on: December 09, 2003, 08:51:25 am »

While my HTPC can use all of MC9.1's features, I choose not to and use other DVD players, photo thumbnail viewers and databases, instead.  My experience with these other softwares is that MC has a long way to go, and I won't try to predict which MC version might persuade me away from my other softwares (10?, 11?, 12?).  That said, it's my preference, and others should have the option to use all the features of MC before they try/find something else.

However, users which can find a use for all the features of MC would surely be the exception rather than the general case ... while it's surely the general case that all MC users use the audio capabilities, which MC is not in any competition with (again, my opinion, but this is a MC forum).  I'll choose to keep the feature-rich version of MC9.1 on my HTPC, but I wonder why I need to install the same software on my other imaging workstation just so I can stream from the HTPC media server(?)  Generally speaking, MC users want audio first, and it's the unusual exception to need anything else.

(... Hey ... I tried to get MC's TV recording to work with the help of this forum ... but it came no where near to the quality and file size as accomplished with other softwares.  You can tell me to try again with the most recent MC9.1 release, but I see no evidence of improval ... and now you'd insist I upgrade to v10 ... maybe ...)
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JimH

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Re:The wealth of MC9.1 features.
« Reply #33 on: December 09, 2003, 08:59:43 am »

and now you'd insist I upgrade to v10
I don't think anyone is insisting that you upgrade.
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bjsolem

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Re:The wealth of MC9.1 features.
« Reply #34 on: December 09, 2003, 09:30:06 am »

I started with audio and it will always be my primary use of MC.  

With a digital camera and a new baby we are taking a ton of pictures and they were becoming a mess!  Managing photos in the panes is the easiest thing that I have found.  Even Photoshop Album requires you to drag and drop a bunch of tags across the screen onto the pics.

MC cleaned up my photo mess and has been used for many slideshows to keep the grandparents happy.

I don't use the TV because I use a laptop so I don't have a tuner card.  If I ever get a tower with a all-in-wonder type card I will use MC as my htpc.

I will also use it for dvd playback when it becomes rock solid.

I love where 10 is going, and the idea on this thread of seperate components plugging into a solid backend database.
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hit_ny

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Re:The wealth of MC9.1 features.
« Reply #35 on: December 09, 2003, 12:41:35 pm »

Primarily for audio...i only need CUE/APL support and thats audio side of things done for me. what more could JRiver tempt me with :)

Recently tried the burning and liked it, seeems so easy to do compared with other apps.

Images & web radio needs some work. i think MC has good potential here.

tv i have no use for, divx support would be nice.

HTPC is something i hear a lot of ..but am quite ignorant on it. I'm usually at my desk when using MC so have not needed to have remote support. Given the myriad things one can do with MC, i can imagine doing things remotely could be quite difficult to do...seems a lot easier to just set random play on a well-crafted smart rule. Might take a few iterations to get right.
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Lynn

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Re:The wealth of MC9.1 features.
« Reply #36 on: December 09, 2003, 11:09:08 pm »

Audio only, and for some bizarre reason on my system the best sounding version is 9.0.180.  Later versions just don't sound as good to me even though I prefer the UI of later versions.
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shAf

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Re:The wealth of MC9.1 features.
« Reply #37 on: December 10, 2003, 07:07:44 am »

and now you'd insist I upgrade to v10
I don't think anyone is insisting that you upgrade.
My statement was in the context of expecting from JRiver TV features comparable with other TV dedicated softwares ...
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cheerios from the Avalon Peninsula, Newfoundland
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