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[gpvillamil]

I am still having issues with the calculation of free space on the iPod.

Here's the sequence:

1) Plug in the iPod
2) Browse to iPod entry in MC tree - shows 786MB free
3) Right-click iPod, initialize
4) Browse to iPod entry in MC tree - shows 18.5GB free
5) Right-click iPod, synchronize
6) With NO entries selected, sync dialog shows 786MB free after sync!
7) Selecting my iPod sync playlist, goes to like -17.6GB free

Ejecting iPod and plugging in again seems to work.

Another scenario:

1) Plug in iPod
2) Right-click, synchronize
3) Some large negative number is shown eg. -9GB
4) Go ahead anyway and sync
5) MC deletes files not in sync
6) MC complains about negative space available
7) Eject and unplug iPod
Plug back in
9) Free space in iPod tree item and in sync dialog now the same
10) Finish the sync

Reading through some other posts suggests others are having similar problems.

I am using the .234 build, iPod firmware is 1.5

[MarkGrigsby]

I have similar problems.  According to the free space calculation, my 40Gb iPod has suddenly grown to 50Gb 

[lOth]

Ejecting iPod and plugging in again seems to work.

I think closing and restarting MC also works.

I am using the .234 build

I think the problem might be due to the fact that the "remove unselected tracks" option doesn't seem to work (again) in this build.

More generally, does the negative result appear all the time or only under certain circumstances (like retagging a lot of the files that MC keeps synchronized with the iPod)?

[gpvillamil]

This happens 100% of the time.

There is no retagging involved.

The only change from sync to sync is the addition of a small number (perhaps 2 or 3) new albums.

The other key factor is that about half the files in the sync are chosen by automatically generated smartlists. I have not yet had time to test sync without the smartlists.

[lOth]

I'm using smartlists too and only smartlists and I certainly don't have this problem 100% of the time, so that's not it.

It only happens to me after I've retagged a lot of files because MC doesn't seem to 'foresee' that retagged files will replace the old ones on the iPod.

What I would recommend to try in your case (if you didn't do all this already):

Restore the iPod (w/ ipod updater)
Completely uninstall MC (deleting the registry entries)
Install the latest build
Re-transfer all your files back on to the iPod
and... see if you still have the problem on the following sync

[benrad]

I decided to give MC one last try with my iPod, and so far, no good.
I reset devices.
I plug in my iPod.
It asks if I want to use my iPod as a portable device.
I say yes.
MC crashes.

I'm using the latest build.

[JimH]

benrad,
You've been reporting similar problems for a while.  Are you trying to use iTunes at the same time with the same iPod?  It probably won't work.

[benrad]

No. Only MC.

[lOth]

have you tried restoring your iPod? What kind of iPod is it anyway?

[benrad]

It's a 20 GB 3G iPod. I restored it, installed the latest firmware, and the sync worked. So I'm happy again for the time being.

[lOth]

I'm glad it worked for you.

When I have a problem with iPod sync, I usually try these steps in the following order:

_ reset portable devices
_ rebuild the db from the iPod
_ reinitialize the iPod from within MC
_ uninstall and reinstall MC
_ restore the iPod to factory settings

If after all this an option is still not working I can be fairly sure it's just broken in the current build.

[dynamic]

same here it's not working for me.
no itunes installed, just MC11 .234

I am still having issues with the calculation of free space on the iPod.

Here's the sequence:

1) Plug in the iPod
2) Browse to iPod entry in MC tree - shows 786MB free
3) Right-click iPod, initialize
4) Browse to iPod entry in MC tree - shows 18.5GB free
5) Right-click iPod, synchronize
6) With NO entries selected, sync dialog shows 786MB free after sync!
7) Selecting my iPod sync playlist, goes to like -17.6GB free

Ejecting iPod and plugging in again seems to work.

Another scenario:

1) Plug in iPod
2) Right-click, synchronize
3) Some large negative number is shown eg. -9GB
4) Go ahead anyway and sync
5) MC deletes files not in sync
6) MC complains about negative space available
7) Eject and unplug iPod
Plug back in
9) Free space in iPod tree item and in sync dialog now the same
10) Finish the sync

Reading through some other posts suggests others are having similar problems.

I am using the .234 build, iPod firmware is 1.5

[SteveG]

I think I know what the problem is and can fix this next week. Basically, the smartlist caching is not clearing if you init the iPod. For now, always close the AW when you initialize the iPod and when you reopen it, all should be better. If this is true, I can add functionality to make this occur automatically.


Steve

[lOth]

If this is true, I can add functionality to make this occur automatically.

From what I can see here, this is true, so you can start working on implementing this automated cache clearing.

[benrad]

Is there any way to avoid the "analyzing files" dialog every time you sync? I usually have to walk away from my system for about 5 minutes while it analyzes all the files on my iPod.

At least I have it working again. I can be happy about that.

Thanks...

[SteveG]

ben,

MC should only analyze files that must be sent to iPod. It does not analyze files already on iPod.

Steve

[lOth]

ben,

MC should only analyze files that must be sent to iPod. It does not analyze files already on iPod.

Steve

if you followed Larry Little's guide like I did, all the files that should go on the iPod are kept in a dynamic smartlist. I guess that's why in this case, each time I sync MC analyzes 7000+ files before transfering. It's really too bad, because most often I only have a dozen or so that have changed since the previous sync.

[benrad]

if you followed Larry Little's guide like I did, all the files that should go on the iPod are kept in a dynamic smartlist. I guess that's why in this case, each time I sync MC analyzes 7000+ files before transfering. It's really too bad, because most often I only have a dozen or so that have changed since the previous sync.

Yeah, that's the method I use as well. Any way around that?

[lOth]

Any way around that?

Maybe if instead of a custom field we could use a new yes/no MC field specifically intended for labeling files that should go on a portable device. But that means JRiver people would have to add a new field themselves, maybe in the 'file info' section of 'tag info'.

[RobOK]

if you followed Larry Little's guide like I did, all the files that should go on the iPod are kept in a dynamic smartlist. I guess that's why in this case, each time I sync MC analyzes 7000+ files before transfering. It's really too bad, because most often I only have a dozen or so that have changed since the previous sync.

I am not using exactly that method, but I do use a lot of smart lists.  I create a lot of  master genre lists and then shrink to a subset of them for a rotation onto the iPod to keep it fresh.  Not really for space reasons but to keep the music fresh.  I think a better approach for me would be to create static lists of what i really want on the iPod, but that takes away the whole power of MC.

Due to faulty synch logic, iPod users are being incented to NOT use SmartLists.  Somehting is wrong here IMHO.

[SteveG]

Everyone,

Please slow down. Misinformation is abounding. I have made the following statement in  3 different threads. I will say it again here. 

In regard to 'analyzing files' this should only occur on files that are about to be sent to iPod and then only after you select 'transfer' or 'Synchronize'. Whether you use smartlists or playlists, no files should be queued in this process if they are already on iPod. If this is not the case, I can troubleshoot this.

For example I have 7000 files in a smartlist or a playlist called 'Many files'. I sync this playlist to iPod. Before the transfer, 7000 files will be analyzed. After the transfer I sync the same playlist. No files are analyzed because no files are transferring. I now add another playlist with 500 files to be synched. When I say 'Synchronize' 500 files will be analyzed. The previous 7000 will not.

If this is not what you are seeing, let me know and I will fix it.

Steve

[lOth]

Steve,

this is not what I see. Each time I sync MC analyzes 7000+ files, 99% of them already on the iPod.

[MarkGrigsby]

Steve, I completely concur with the observation from lOth

[JustinChase]

Analyzes every time.  5700 files here.

Also, off topic, sorry, Is there some way to change MC so that it either tells you or, better yet, asks you before you hit the synchronyze button which way the synch will go.

I occasionally switch directions for one reason or another, and if I forget to check the option in options (since it´s not available in the AW until after you synchronize), it will change ratings I´ve worked hard to correct, and I have to start over.  For example, I just lost 134 ratings out of a list of over 400 because I forgot to check which way MC is set to synch, and I synched ratings from MC into the iPod, which erased my work.  It´s really frustrating when this happens.

Sorry, I know wrong post, but I know Steve will read it, and that´s what matters.

PS  MC is stealing focus for no apparent reason.  During the typing of this post, MC has stole focus 3 times.  Originally because it was finished analyzing files (that it didn´t need to analyze), but 2 more times since, and I don´t know why.

Thanks

[ged]

Steve, I completely concur with the observation from lOth

Me too counts down slooowly through the files and then sits there with nothing showing in the handheld progress box

[benrad]

Ditto for me.

Update: It even "analyzed files" when the following occured:
iPod was plugged in, but I was not sychronizing it, only listening to music on my PC. I inserted a flash memory card into a reader on my desk. MC proceeded to analyze all the files on my iPod again, despite me not even touching MC.

[SteveG]

Everyone,

Thanks for the feedback. Lets clarify what we mean by 'Analyzing'. Whenever the iPod is first connected, MC is designed to retrieve all the information about the files on iPod. Auto sync may be making this confusing because this step occurs in the background. Try the following. Turn off autosync and connect your iPod. Click on the iPod in the tree and MC will take some time to gather all the information about the files and display them. This should occur only one time (if you reselect the root level, this information should be reproduced quickly as it is saved from the first time).  After this, try a sync. If no files have changed on the iPod, this step should be fast because no files are tranfserring. If you have added 100 new files,you should see a brief 'Analyzing files' while the 100 files to transfer are examined.

Please let me know if this is what you see (or don't see).

Thanks.

Steve


PS Justin,

The sync always goes in one direction, MC to iPod. If you enable 'sync data to PC' MC receives the ratings and last played info from iPod before the sync to iPod begins. It occurs whether you complete the sync or not and happens at the point where you invoke the 'Synchronization' Action Window. If you do not want that step to occur, disable the check box and the sync from PC to iPod occurs without the step of moving data from iPod to MC.

[lOth]

Steve,

no, that's not what I see. MC analyzes (and here I'm definitely talking about files analysis and not portable initialization) all the files in the smartlist I use to synchronize to the iPod (7000+). This happens with the first sync as well as with any following one.

[benrad]

Steve,

no, that's not what I see. MC analyzes (and here I'm definitely talking about files analysis and not portable initialization) all the files in the smartlist I use to synchronize to the iPod (7000+). This happens with the first sync as well as with any following one.

Same thing with me, even with autosync off. The analyzing occurs before EVERY iPod sync or transfer, even if I've done nothing.

[SteveG]

Does MC then transfer files?

If so, how many? Keep in mind with smartlists, a certain amount of  change is to be expected. Especially if the smartlists are dynamic and if you have 'Delete unselected' checked.

Steve

PS Please confirm that the analysis occurs after clicking 'Synchronize'.

[benrad]

Does MC then transfer files?

If so, how many? Keep in mind with smartlists, a certain amount of  change is to be expected. Especially if the smartlists are dynamic and if you have 'Delete unselected' checked.

Steve

MC does not transfer any files, because I've made no changes to any playlists & the selected playlists are NOT dynamic. I'm just doing it to test out synching. Analysis occurs after the button is pressed.

[SteveG]

Here is a test I just performed.

1) I created a playlist of 10 files.
2) Synched the one playlist.

Saw the 'Analyzing files' count down from 10 to 0
Watched the files transfer.

3) Synched the same playlist.

Saw 'Analyzing files'  with a count of 0 briefly
No files transferred.

Can you compare what you are seeing?

Thanks.

Steve

[MarkGrigsby]

Does MC then transfer files?

If so, how many? Keep in mind with smartlists, a certain amount of  change is to be expected. Especially if the smartlists are dynamic and if you have 'Delete unselected' checked.

Steve

PS Please confirm that the analysis occurs after clicking 'Synchronize'.

I confirm that, after clicking Synchronize, the 'Analyzing' box will count down through every file that is on iPod, as well as those queued.  In the case described above (i.e. sync'ing a second time, with static playlists, so no files transferred) the box will still appear and 'analyze' ALL files on the iPod, and then NO files are transferred.

Hope this helps...

[SteveG]

Mark,

After clicking 'Synchronize' or after clicking 'Transfer' in the AW that pops up when you click 'Synchronize'?

Steve

[MarkGrigsby]

Steve,

Apologies - it's when hitting Transfer (and after clicking past the 'some files are already on the device' message).  Also, I found that if I start MC, then sync without adding any new playlists to the sync, then I have no analyzing.  However, if I then add 1 more playlist and sync again, I wait for analysis of ALL files, including those on iPod.

[lOth]

Does MC then transfer files?

If so, how many? Keep in mind with smartlists, a certain amount of  change is to be expected. Especially if the smartlists are dynamic and if you have 'Delete unselected' checked.

Steve

PS Please confirm that the analysis occurs after clicking 'Synchronize'.

Steve,

whether or not MC transfers files afterwards, there's always an analysis of all files in my smartlist.

Here's the expression for that smartlist:

-[G's iPod]=[Exclude] [Media Type]=[Audio] -[Genre]=[Web Media]

where [G's iPod] is a custom field that can have only two possible values: 'Exclude' or 'unassigned' and Web Media is the genre I use to tag all online streaming media.


And here's what happens in order:

1) click 'handheld player' in the AW
2) 'please wait... initializing portable' appears for a few seconds
3) 'please wait... analyzing files' appears and all files in the smartlist above are analyzed (7000+)
4) in the AW I then have a window called IPOD with a synchronize button. I click it.
5) in the AW I then have a SYNC HANDHELD window with a transfer button.
6) 'synching portable info to MC' appears for a second and then the memory available on the iPod after sync  is displayed just above the transfer button. I click this transfer button
7) 'please wait... analyzing files' appears again and all files in the smartlist are analyzed again.
8.) If there's any file to transfer, it's being tranfered after that analysis.

This will happen in almost the same way for the first sync and the following ones, regardless of whether the 'delete unselected files' option is checked or not. The only difference is that steps #2 and #3 will only happen on the first sync.

I hope this will help because once you've solved this one, I believe there isn't much you can add/fix in time to make it into MC 11 final (that is, unless you can wrap up individual settings for multiple iPods, auto-mount and auto-eject before and after sync, iPod photo support in just a few hours )

[SteveG]

Thanks to all for your reporting. I think I have this one nailed now (fingers crossed, breathing slowly ).

Please get tonight's build and let me know.

Thanks,

Steve

[RobOK]

Steve, I have been away from all of this, but did want to clarify something about how my lists are working.

Mine are more of the flavor of lets say there is a pool of 10,000 songs.   5 lists pull 3,000 of those songs.  The next time maybe 1,000 stay the same and 2,000 change.  Something like that.  Not like in your example above where if you did the same list twice in a row nothing would change.

We just adopted a new dog, so that has been consuming much more of my time and frankly is more satisfying than sitting at a computer, so sorry i've not been participating in all this fun.

i do think you should consolidate all the iPod synch threads into one if possible after tonight.  Start one new one and close the others with pointers to the new one.

[JimH]

We just adopted a new dog, so that has been consuming much more of my time and frankly is more satisfying than sitting at a computer, so sorry i've not been participating in all this fun.

Steve is going to be crushed.... 

[lOth]

Thanks to all for your reporting. I think I have this one nailed now (fingers crossed, breathing slowly ).

Please get tonight's build and let me know.

Thanks,

Steve

You did nail it! Many thanks

Except for the very long time it takes for MC to initialize the iPod when you plug it in (it takes about 40 sec here before the "initializing portable" message appears, it also seems that overall, MC interacts much faster with the iPod (for instance, I can now barely see the 'synching portable info to MC' message).

Congrats and thanks again.

[benrad]

1. I installed build 241.
2. I started MC and then plugged in my iPod. I had synced it this morning with build 240.
3. I ran sync once, and everything looked good.
4. I added about 3 CDs that I had ripped at work to my library, and then ran sync again to   add them to my iPod.
5. MC stated that I would have -18.5 GB left after sync (uh oh!).
6. I shut down MC and opened it again.
7. MC starts up and proceeds to delete all of the music off of my iPod, except for maybe 200 tracks. I do have Autosync enabled and the delete tracks box is checked. However, I've made no changes to my library, other than adding those 3 CDs.
8. I shut down MC and opened it again, it did not copy the tracks on my auto-synched playlists back to the iPod.
9. I manually synchronized and all 2500 files were copied back to the iPod.
10. I made a few changes to songs in the library, rating, a few file name changes.
11. I ran synchronization again and MC deleted all the music again.

I'm currently copying all of my music back to the iPod.

Any advice?

[JustinChase]

I'm currently copying all of my music back to the iPod.

Any advice?

Have a drink

[lOth]

steve,

it looks like I got a little too excited too quickly. I'm seeing the same thing as benrad.  My sense is that it only happens when 'delete unselected tracks' and auto-sync (whether playlists or library) are selected. I went back to manual sync for now, but there's obviously a big problem. As benrad described, it only happens on a second sync following a successful first one. Since MC had already deleted half of my files on the iPod I canceled the transfer and re-initialized the iPod. I retransfered all files again,  and on the next sync MC started deleting all the songs again. So, re-initializing the iPod won't do and the issue is somewhere else.

[BlueGlow]

I also experienced the same symptoms as benrad.

.241, all files deleted, space available wrong, etc.

[JustinChase]

I am also having a problem whereby when I click on the handheld working in the AW it

• Itinializes the iPod
  
Retrieves file info

• Then starts deleting all my files

I can cancel this, and bring up the window where I can select synchronize.

If I click on this, it brings up the synchronize window, but the available size: is simply blank.  nothing.

I have to select either a playlist, or synch all files to get it to do a calculation for available space.  Actually, I only have to expand on of the smartlist groups.  I DO NOT have to add or subtract a playlist to get it to calculate.

The synch then seems to go fine, with the deleted files being readded.

I have no idea how this might affect the last played info, or number of plays.

[lOth]

I have no idea how this might affect the last played info, or number of plays.

both last played and number of plays were fixed recently, but with 241 number of plays is broken again (if you keep synchronizing your iPod without ejecting it or closing MC, the playcount will keep increasing for some files).

[MarkGrigsby]

Good news = The 'analyzing' problem is fixed for me too

Bad news = One thing is still annoying me

1) Initialize iPod
2) Sync playlist with 2Gb of files.  iPod correctly calculates the remaining free space after transfer will be 35.1Gb
3) Go back to Sync window.  iPod will display 'remaining free space after sync' as 37.1Gb, even though the same 2Gb playlist is still selected.
4) Add another 1Gb playlist to sync, iPod calculates remaining free space will be 36.1Gb.
5) After sync, restart MC, and the free space info is correct.

This doesn't really cause a problem in the example above, but when dealing with a very full iPod it is annoying, as the transfer will try to send more files than will physically fit.

I'm sure the problem is that the free space is only captured the first time iPod and MC communicate during a session.  It needs to be refreshed after every sync, or whenever you enter the Synchronize window.

[benrad]

Another problem with build 241.

I'm getting songs on my iPod that are labeled incorrectly...for instance:

The iPod will show New Fast Automatic Daffodils - Stockholm on the display
but it will be playing Trashcan Sinatras - Hayfever

I've checked these songs in my library on my PC and they're fine, they play normally. It seems to be somewhat random (but for some reason it's hitting Trashcan Sinatras the hardest?!)

Has anyone else seen this behavior?

[gpvillamil]

Another problem with build 241.

I'm getting songs on my iPod that are labeled incorrectly...for instance:

The iPod will show New Fast Automatic Daffodils - Stockholm on the display
but it will be playing Trashcan Sinatras - Hayfever

I've checked these songs in my library on my PC and they're fine, they play normally. It seems to be somewhat random (but for some reason it's hitting Trashcan Sinatras the hardest?!)

Has anyone else seen this behavior?

I have not seen quite the same behavior. However, sometimes I get the "song-skipping" problem, which means:

1) I look at the display
2) It shows a song starting (0:00)
3) I put the iPod in my pocket
4) The iPod skips and starts playing another song
5) I pull out the iPod and stare at it in surprise
6) Skipping back usually plays the correct song

[SteveG]

Some residual skipping may have been present if you were transferring more than one file with the same 50 character truncated base path. This situation is fixed in the next build and I think your problem will go away. If you currently have skipping files on the iPod, you will need to delete them so the new correctly unique filename will be transferred.

Steve