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[Matt]

Media Center 11.1 betas include a merged Media Library and Library Browser that incorporates the best aspects of both, while adding a few new features.

A long discussion about the first few cuts are here:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=30574.0

Keep the good ideas coming

[pank2002]

There'll be an updated version tonight that's a lot better.  It's feeling pretty tight to us.

One big change is that you can show any graphical view (like album thumbnails, etc.) with a file listing below it.  This is something people have been requesting forever.

Cheers.

This new build is really brilliant! I like it a lot!

• I like the new thumbnail system. Maybe it's color should be based on the skin. I.e. silver doesn't look all that great in the Aluminum Black skin.
• If bidirectional links are turned on and then turned off things will look strange.
• The bread crumb thing (or whatever it's called in English...) isn't broken over multiple lines. Hence, it sometimes gets messed up when it's really long. Also the font size is quite large!
  
• Funny facts (average ratings, number of times played etc) isn't shown anymore. This was a cool feature.
  

Okay, I've GOT to write my paper (it was due this Wednesday ...).

Thanks!
-Rasmus

[edbro]

I think I'm just not getting this. I'm a bit slow so bear with me...

Is the Artist view in the Library browser customizable? I can't seem to do it. For example; if I R. click and choose "customize current view", no changes stick. I tried switching from tile to thumbnail but when I hit Apply, it goes back to tile. If I try to change the tile/thumbnail size, nothing changes. These tiles are too big for my laptop display. If I can't change it, why do I get the "customize current view" option?

[Matt]

I think I'm just not getting this. I'm a bit slow so bear with me...

Is the Artist view in the Library browser customizable? I can't seem to do it. For example; if I R. click and choose "customize current view", no changes stick. I tried switching from tile to thumbnail but when I hit Apply, it goes back to tile. If I try to change the tile/thumbnail size, nothing changes. These tiles are too big for my laptop display. If I can't change it, why do I get the "customize current view" option?

Customize Current View only applies to the classic "Files" page.  We'll update the enabled / disabled state in a coming build.

[JaredH]

I must say, this new idea only gets better with every build.

After the last build, I'm still a bit afraid that if I try and change anything about my views they will just revert when I try to "Save for location and similar locations".

I didnt try to mess with anything, but is the default view mode on this build the Graphical View or the Library View?

[Tolga]

Good:
1. thumbnail place holders are great.
2. new splitt screen is great.
3. top buttons + text context information (it had a name didn't it) works.
4. optional bi-directional link + Local View choices is good (I like choices).

Bad:
- I am still concerned that only few filter links fit on a thumbnail, although this view has the potential of combining tens of filters.
- it is weird to select multiple items and then click the filter link of an arbitrary one of them.
 
I still think the solution is global filter buttons. (fine, maybe plus show the first few of the links on the thumbnails).
(for those who have not been following, I want top buttons act like the links on the thumbnails. Click them to filter more in that topic (button highlighted) double click to reset that filter. Click global reset, to restart.

Go Global filters buttons!

[JONCAT]

Running out by real quick:

Looks great. I love the file list at the bottom with the spliiter tab to minimize.

The more simple Play View (pull down are great).

What about being able to customize the screen? My main concern is that when viewing (All) my album thumbnails in the panes view there is no option to bring the bottom file list pane up. Is this difficult to implement because of the nature of the MC navigation? It would be spectaclaur (as I keep harping on) to have that pane below the fully customizable album thumbnails viewing.

VERY impressed overall...I like the buttons at the top and the bi-directional options, the options are welcoming, if we don;tlike a feature we can turn it off.

thanks!
Jonathan

[lOth]

Bug? Library browser mode, browsing pictures, date (months) displays months in alphabetical order

[LonWar]

Now I'm really starting to like that!

[bytestar]

i have a smal problem with the text fields see screen !

i see only D... and right Ansic = Dateien and right Ansicht

http://img453.imageshack.us/img453/1703/textfield8gh.jpg

[Shelly]

I'm really trying to be positive about the changes, but as I noted in the last build thread, I'm totally confused with the labeling of Album Artist (non-auto) as Artist.  Most of my views have both of these fields and for both to appear as Artist has me completely disoriented and that's not a good thing.  I can't even begin to analyze what I like and don't like at this point, except for this one feature which I don't like!

Edit:
Just saw that you started a new thread on this, Jim.  Will respond tomorrow, when I'm awake.

[datdude]

Keep on a truckin!

There needs to be a drop down sorting option next to the view one.  You could sort by total files per tile(very important when using bi-directional links), alphabetically, and average date, rating,  last played, total plays.  This is imporntant since you can't see what is inside each tile all at the same time.  This gives the user a way to know which tile they want based upon their listening preference.

Font values are gettign cut off for both bread crumbs and the main tile field.  A solution could be to have these fields scroll when hovered over or clicked on by the mouse(if thats possible).

Other than that, it's is an amazing improvement over previous MC's.  This has allready changed how I search for music due to it's visual nature + bi-directional filtering + custom view fiedls capability. There is not much else that could be done other than 3-D manipulation, but that will come with windows vista hopefully.

[JONCAT]

Hey Hey Hey!

Killer idea to have the tile cycle through all the respective album covers for a particular artist when highlighted. Now I am thinkning these easiest way to attain my wish is to allow at least, a lot more customization to the tiles.

The titles e.g. artist or album name is huge. Allow us to shrink that down while at the same time the abilty to re-size tiles and their spacing and we're GOLDEN!!! It would basically be implementing an album or even artist thumbnail file pane into this new view style w/o resorting to a major overhaul (which I am sort of guessing it would take in the other place)

1,000 thank you's

Jonathan

[JONCAT]

I'd like to elaborate on the resizing and configuring of the tiles:

1. If users could edit the view to have only small text under each thumb and thumbs could be any size then

2. Users could still double click to PLAY

3. Users could right click for other view options

4. Users then have the option to have just artist or album thumbs with a hidable file list (at bottom) and the thumbs can be maxed out so the system or view rather is mostly and purely visual.

5. A few tweaks like allowing the top of the thumbnail window (where top panes minimize to) to minimize to the very top of the screen & making the column headers for the file list below, small, would save a little space as well. The bar above the column headers and the font size of the column title themselves adds up to reducing viewing space.

The Tile's text size should be independent of the system size; I am browsing through genre right now and love this. I am starting to dig smaller tiles but would like em a bit bigger and squished vertically togther but further apart horiz. ...i.e. still believe customization is the key.

v/r
Jonathan

[LonWar]

Since you guys are modifying the views, any thought on vrining back the Little cover art pics you had for the Library lines?

I can't remember what beta it was that they appeared briefly, I think MC11.

[datdude]

Since you guys are modifying the views, any thought on vrining back the Little cover art pics you had for the Library lines?

I can't remember what beta it was that they appeared briefly, I think MC11.

I think this makes even more sense now since the mini thumbnails will visually corelate with the library view as you are scanning the list.

Another idea is to make the buttons and bread crumbs at the top work exactly as the windows xp taskbar with quick launch does.
Think about it!

The only difference is that it would auto size as the bread crumbs increase and decrease.

[park]

Must add how impressed I am about this developement too. Feasibly, I could delete about half of my viewschemes, due to the bi-directionality.

For absolute total convenience, how about adding a drop down "Sort by" list somewhere in that top bar. You could save your own presets and then would have to complete flexibility to change the order of the list on the fly. You wouldn't necessarily even need the sorting options in "custonmize current view".

I'd also still like to be able to see the "album thumbnails" in the file list at the bottom too.

And I absolutely second Tolga's suggestion for having the buttons along the top act to filter the currently selected tiles, rather than the current way of restting the list. And this canbe done by combining the breadcrumbs and buttons.
The way I would do this is to start of with just one button at the left, set to the user's defualt preference (eg "Genre"). When someone clicks on one or more tiles a second button pops up to the right of the first button, labelled something like "view" and the drop down arrow (just like the one on the tiles at the moment). You then use that drop down menu to filter the tiles to the next view item, and the process continues on the same logic.
Then say you want to backtrack and change something, you just click back to one of the buttons and if you select new tiles inside that view, any buttons that were to the right of it disapear and the next "view" drop down menu button appears instead.

Does that make sense?

One final thing. Back and forward seem to be much more important in the new library style. I know space is a problem, but I'd put them in that top bar if I were you. Or at least make sure that they are by defualt, when you install the program, in the top and bottom toolbars. When I installed the software those toolbars were empty, and I only managed to populate them because I already knew they existed. For new users, there needs to be a much more obvious clue.

Sorry to go on
Great work though!

[park]

Oh, and since "files" gives you such a fundementally different view, I'd differentiate it somehow (different colour, or seperator or something).

[datdude]

Ding, ding, ding Gotta make the bottom file list transparent since it covers up the library browser.

[marko]

viewschemes that use a grouped pane, followed by a non-grouped pane produce identical results in library browser mode, making one of the buttons a little redundant.
perhaps the browser view could either display the grouping stage, or intelligently ignore it, displaying just one button instead?

playlist or expression based panes in a viewscheme are ignored, is there a likelyhood of their support being added?

my incoming folder is bulging a bit, so i'll give this new system a little workout over the weekend. looks quite promising so far. nice work.

-marko.

[Tolga]

Wow, the builds come in faster than I can consume.

Ok, the pull-down links on thumbnails more acceptable, but 1) not easier mouse clickwise than going to buttons at the top [which I believe should replace the links] 2) still counter intuitive if multiple thumbnails are selected.

So,once again,
Go Global filters buttons!    


Old Media Library View --> Tagging View

Old filter view scheme should be selectable from the new view menu in all filter views. Otherwise there is no real integration between media library and library browser, just an improved browser. Presumeable, this view would only be useful for tagging, so we could call it tagging view and turn tagging on by default. [not very sure about turning tagging on by default. I would prefer it, but people for backward compatibility, it may need to be optional].

[Matt]

I want to note that we aren't going to make clicking one of the buttons at the top filter based on the selection.  Although this is workable once you've used it a bit, it's very confusing to newer users. (we did usability testing in house)

It seems that anytime a filter is applied, it needs to be in response to an explicit action.  Having buttons that sometimes go "home" and sometimes filter is also confusing.

Thanks for understanding.

[Tolga]

I want to note that we aren't going to make clicking one of the buttons at the top filter based on the selection.  Although this is workable once you've used it a bit, it's very confusing to newer users. (we did usability testing in house)

It seems that anytime a filter is applied, it needs to be in response to an explicit action.  Having buttons that sometimes go "home" and sometimes filter is also confusing.
Thanks for understanding.

 :-\Ok, I will not pursue this any longer . (as long as you add support for playlists and locations/folder, which I am sure you are thinking about  )

[pank2002]

How will tagging mode work in this new view? Will it only be part of the file-view or will it also become part of the new view?

[datdude]

How will tagging mode work in this new view? Will it only be part of the file-view or will it also become part of the new view?

I hope nothing is added in regards to tagging as it makes our databases safer from accidental user tagging errors which happens quite often due to the ease of MC's tagging engine.

[avpman]

Is there now (or will there ever be) a way to get a detailed non-graphical listing by Album?? I though it appeared in one of the betas but can't find it now. I'd like the option to choose how to order the list (date last played, date imported, artist, album name, etc). I've got over 700 albums, perusing them by album cover art just ain't cuttin it.

I'd appreciate it of someone would respond. I can't believe I'm the only person that wants to see a listing like this. But then again, maybe it's available and I'm just too dense to find it. 

Frustrated...

[JONCAT]

You can'y use panes for this ? And then have the bottom pane consist of all the fields you mentioned? You could have three panes above that would be your main fields to narrow it down. If you select Files your back in the "old" pane view; just edit a scheme to your liking and make sure your on Details or Automatic (you can add quick switch buttons to the toolbar for these) so you say text and not thumbs.

Does this help?

Jonathan

[T2Mac]

Having selected to display say all Robbie Williams' albums, I then click the image for 'Escapology' which quite rightly displays just the files from this album below. I now want to go back to display files for ALL Robbie Williams' albums. I thought I would be able to click 'Robbie Williams Albums' in the breadcrumb trail to do this but I can't, and clicking 'Back' takes me back to All Artists.

Ian

[Tolga]

I hope nothing is added in regards to tagging as it makes our databases safer from accidental user tagging errors which happens quite often due to the ease of MC's tagging engine.

I agree, in particular, I don't want a rename function on filter window. (at least without going into a tagging mode). I actually prefer that tags cannot be changed in the bottom file view either, unless the tagging mode is activated and it is visually clear that we are in a different mode.

[Mr ChriZ]

A 17" screen just isn't big enuf no more! 

[brainsoup]

I absolutely *love* the new library views. This was one of the things I wanted you guys to do since the first time my eyes saw the library browser!

Some things I would like to see....

viewschemes that use a grouped pane, followed by a non-grouped pane produce identical results in library browser mode, making one of the buttons a little redundant.

I would really like to see the library browser group them in the same way theatre view does.

Funny facts (average ratings, number of times played etc) isn't shown anymore. This was a cool feature.

This was really funky... please bring it back!

The album art only cycles when the mouse is over the image, not when an item is selected

I would *love* to see some keyboard control for library views. e.g ctrl+enter means go one level down, backspace means go up one level and ctrl+shift+p means play selection now and enter means add it to the current playing now list. I could then use the lib browser with my remote - this development really has the potential to replace theatre view!

On the same vein... would it be possible to have a "top level" view that lets you select a view-scheme rather than have to go to the tree view on the right?

[GHammer]

I hope nothing is added in regards to tagging as it makes our databases safer from accidental user tagging errors which happens quite often due to the ease of MC's tagging engine.

Here, here.
I'd like to just be able to browse in this location. If I want to tag, I should be somewhere else. So too should friends, family, etc who have the knack for finding ways to tag files...

[avpman]

You can'y use panes for this ? And then have the bottom pane consist of all the fields you mentioned? You could have three panes above that would be your main fields to narrow it down. If you select Files your back in the "old" pane view; just edit a scheme to your liking and make sure your on Details or Automatic (you can add quick switch buttons to the toolbar for these) so you say text and not thumbs.

Does this help?

Jonathan

The built-in view is really almost perfect with the Albums at the top and the files at the bottom. It just doesn't let me change the view for the Albums from "tiles" to "details". That little change would make it perfect and give me what I want. If I then click on an Album detail line, the files at the bottom should show only the files for that album.

Like I said, I really think I'm either overlooking something obvious or I'm not describing clearly what I'm looking for because I can't believe no one else wants the same view.

[JONCAT]

AVPMAN,

Like this?



JC

[avpman]

AVPMAN,

Like this?

Uh- yeah. Except for the additional fields I want - exactly like that. How'd you do it??!?

[JONCAT]

The key is to slect the Files tab which takes you into the old "panes" view. In that view scheme it is all my multiple artist albums for a particular genre so I just use the Album field above as one pane. Add the icons to the toolbar that allow you to easily switch between Auto, Details, Album Thumbs, etc.

I think your probably in Album thumbs mode so your just seeing an album thumb when you highlight an album from the text list above.

I have been harping on having the album thumbnails view incorporate the new file list pane so we can view the old (fully customizable) album thumbnails and have the file list below maxed or minmized according to our whims. It's the same thing as shown in the pic except the pane above would be the Album Thumbnails.

JC

[avpman]

The key is to slect the Files tab which takes you into the old "panes" view. In that view scheme it is all my multiple artist albums for a particular genre so I just use the Album field above as one pane. Add the icons to the toolbar that allow you to easily switch between Auto, Details, Album Thumbs, etc.

I think your probably in Album thumbs mode so your just seeing an album thumb when you highlight an album from the text list above.

OK, I got it recreated like you have it. Problem is I don't have all the other fields I need. If I add them to the view, each fields shows up in a seperate pane. I wish I could get a single line across with the fields of my choice.

I still can't understand why JR doesn't make this one of the default views. It sems like a no-brainer to have a database type view like this.
Jim

[JONCAT]

You can edit the bottom pane, just right click anywhere down there, and edit it; it's seperate from the top/tree view scheme. This is/was the default library view, the "pane" system, but as this thread suggests, they are combining the two, providing both at the "same" time.

If we could somehow experiment with the file list below the album thumbnails or get full customization of the tiles, I'll be in heaven. So far, I really like where this is headed.

And I agree that the cycling through album art should occur when highlighted, but maybe since its a mouseover we have the choice of cycling, so on second thought I am not sure. Maybe it could cycle when highlighted and stop on currently displayed with a mouseover???

JC

[datdude]

You can edit the bottom pane, just right click anywhere down there, and edit it; it's seperate from the top/tree view scheme. This is/was the default library view, the "pane" system, but as this thread suggests, they are combining the two, providing both at the "same" time.

If we could somehow experiment with the file list below the album thumbnails or get full customization of the tiles, I'll be in heaven. So far, I really like where this is headed.

And I agree that the cycling through album art should occur when highlighted, but maybe since its a mouseover we have the choice of cycling, so on second thought I am not sure. Maybe it could cycle when highlighted and stop on currently displayed with a mouseover???

JC

That would be cool.  Even better would be if you could double click on the thumbnail that is shwoing and only those files associated with that thumbnail are played. 

Another nice touch would be to have the initial thumbnails that show up be random.  The new visual style of browsing becomes stale after looking at the same thumbnails again and again.  When seeing a different set of thumbnails that 'suggest' what you want to hear, I don't have to think as much, which is always good.  

And please add sorting options by total files in a tile.

[bennyd]

- Isn't it possible to have a "Play selected" button on top something like in when you're in Playlists ?

Now I select for example 3 Genres (with ctrl), I then drill even further down by typing in something in the search bar.

The file list below shows the correct results but I have no button to play the filtered results.
I know I can click on "Play" on one of the selected Genres but this is not very intuitive for new users.

- With this bidirectional thing I do not need a lot of view schemes anymore so I combined a lot of them into one. This means I have a lot of buttons on top with the bread crumb next to it. If drilling down a lot so the bread crumb becomes longer, the breadcrumb will fall out of screen so I cannot select the last items anymore.
(on a site note, I can endless drill down, eg Genre, Artist, Genre, Artist, Genre, Artist, etc., maybe put a limitation on it somehow ?)

- Can't we have a search bar on the file list as well ? Now if we type something in the search bar, it will filter the results from the thumbnail page. Maybe an option to choose where to filter ?

[runemail]

Since you guys are modifying the views, any thought on vrining back the Little cover art pics you had for the Library lines?

I can't remember what beta it was that they appeared briefly, I think MC11.

I loved those tiny thumbnails!
This makes even more sense with the new library browser.
Make them optional and resizeable.


In general i would like to be able to resize tiles, fonts, etc. To customize for different resolutions.(desktop, laptop, tv, etc.)

 
Another nice touch would be to have the initial thumbnails that show up be random.  The new visual style of browsing becomes stale after looking at the same thumbnails again and again.  When seeing a different set of thumbnails that 'suggest' what you want to hear, I don't have to think as much, which is always good.  

This would be a really nice option, I would like to have a set number of random albums show up every time i start MC.

[Dutch Peter]

- Can't we have a search bar on the file list as well ? Now if we type something in the search bar, it will filter the results from the thumbnail page. Maybe an option to choose where to filter ?

YES!!! A search bar per view (file list mode) would be fantastic.

[tcman41]

Yup, the search bar thing would be really nice, i got so much music its hard to remember if i have all ready downloaded it or not and i am constantly going into mc11 and scrolling doen my artists list to see, if there was a search bar all one would have to do is type in the artist name.

Someone also mentioned something about better font control and the ways to additionally customize mc11 to get the look we want, all for that as well.

TC

[Dutch Peter]

At the moment I do not understand the functionality of 'Show Bidirectional Links' in the view dropdown.
I just can not produce a view that changes on the moment I switcg it on or of.

Can anyone explain what it should do?

[Mr ChriZ]

The new views could do with refreshing after Tag change operations,
at present we have to refresh manually...

[park]

Personally I dont think we need to see a button for each view item along that top bar.  They all return you to the root list anyway, so it had might as well be a drop down menu like before. That would free up space for the breadcrumbs, and the "Sorting" drop down list that I'm sure you'll implement 

Why not seperate out the top bar like so:
Files (takes you to pane view)
/ seperator/
Root filter button (drop down list of all of the view items)
/ seperator/
Enter selected button (which gives you a drop down list to filter the selected tiles)
/ seperator/
Play button (which plays selected files)
/ seperator/
breadcrumbs
/ seperator/
Sort by (drop down list with configurable presets)


The benefits of the "Enter selected tiles" button would be that:

• having no tiles selected, MC could assume that you mean "all" like in the panes, and you would be able to filter to the next level with fewer clicks than the current system.
  
• you would be able to take the "view" dropdown off the tiles, freeing up space.
  

I've kinda already stopped using the tiles view for now. Currently, you have to click too many times to get anywhere (eg. you have yo multiply select all artists before you can go to the albums for them).

[datdude]

Yup, the search bar thing would be really nice, i got so much music its hard to remember if i have all ready downloaded it or not and i am constantly going into mc11 and scrolling doen my artists list to see, if there was a search bar all one would have to do is type in the artist name.

Someone also mentioned something about better font control and the ways to additionally customize mc11 to get the look we want, all for that as well.

TC

You can do this with the existing search box.  How would adding this help? 

What I would like to see, is a way to save cusomized searches and select them from the drop down search list with the group titled 'saved searches' listed below the 'modifier' group.  That should be a must!!!

[Dutch Peter]

You can do this with the existing search box.  How would adding this help? 

On the moment you use 2 views, you will see that both views are filtered.
That is were a search per view comes in!

[datdude]

This is something not really relating particularly to the merged library browser, but SPLIT views?

[Dutch Peter]

This is something not really relating particularly to the merged library browser, but SPLIT views?

The relation is that one of the 2 is the merged library browser.
In my case at least. And since this is being redesigned ...