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[Dave T]

Does anyone know how the ITunes mp3 codec compares to Media Center's?  I'm trying to convince a friend to switch to MC, and need ammunition.  The big problem for him is that he has a huge library, and he's rated all the songs in ITunes.  And - ITunes doesn't put the ratings in the file tags, it just stores them directly in the library.  So if he went to MC, he'd lose all his ratings.  Ugh...

[GHammer]

MC uses LAME, which is among the best, if not the best.
As for ratings, well, he's dug into the hole this far. Why get any further into a closed system?

[Dave T]

Yes, I know MC uses LAME, but what about ITunes?  Probably a much lamer codec...

[runemail]

iTunes uses Fhg for mp3

[Dave T]

Thanks, Rune.  So how does that compare to LAME?

[Alex B]

iTunes uses Fhg for mp3

iTunes MP3 encoder is not FhG. It is based on old SoundJam MP encoder and further developed by Apple. Some diagnostic tools like Encspot just make wrong guesses. Actually, the first iTunes itself was partly based on the code of the SoundJam MP program: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SoundJam_MP.

LAME is claimed to be the best MP3 codec and its quality at higher bitrates has been proven many times. Apple has constantly developed their AAC codec, but they have not done any improvements to the mp3 encoder and it is most likely inferior when compared with LAME. In this public listening test LAME was the best and iTunes MP3 was the worst: http://www.rjamorim.com/test/mp3-128/results.html

Importing iTunes ratings would be possible if someone could make a filter for converting the XML data.

iTunes can export its library in XML format. A library export looks like this:

Code: [Select]

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<!DOCTYPE plist PUBLIC "-//Apple Computer//DTD PLIST 1.0//EN" "http://www.apple.com/DTDs/PropertyList-1.0.dtd">
<plist version="1.0">
<dict>
<key>Major Version</key><integer>1</integer>
<key>Minor Version</key><integer>1</integer>
<key>Application Version</key><string>6.0.1</string>
<key>Features</key><integer>1</integer>
<key>Music Folder</key><string>file://localhost/C:/iTunes/</string>
<key>Library Persistent ID</key><string>D4B7C21F164A509B</string>
<key>Tracks</key>
<dict>
<key>212</key>
<dict>
<key>Track ID</key><integer>212</integer>
<key>Name</key><string>Benzin</string>
<key>Artist</key><string>Rammstein</string>
<key>Album</key><string>Rosenrot</string>
<key>Genre</key><string>Rock</string>
<key>Kind</key><string>MPEG audio file</string>
<key>Size</key><integer>7278327</integer>
<key>Total Time</key><integer>226063</integer>
<key>Track Number</key><integer>1</integer>
<key>Year</key><integer>2005</integer>
<key>BPM</key><integer>139</integer>
<key>Date Modified</key><date>2005-12-15T15:04:25Z</date>
<key>Date Added</key><date>2005-12-15T15:04:25Z</date>
<key>Bit Rate</key><integer>254</integer>
<key>Sample Rate</key><integer>44100</integer>
<key>Rating</key><integer>80</integer>
<key>Normalization</key><integer>10493</integer>
<key>Season</key><integer>0</integer>
<key>Persistent ID</key><string>CF8B0F7744A1B440</string>
<key>Track Type</key><string>File</string>
<key>Location</key><string>file://localhost/X:/Rammstein/Rosenrot/01%20-%20Benzin.mp3</string>
<key>File Folder Count</key><integer>-1</integer>
<key>Library Folder Count</key><integer>-1</integer>
</dict>
...
MC can export and import XML in this format:

Code: [Select]

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" standalone="yes" ?>
<MPL Version="2.0">
<Item>
<Field Name="Filename">X:\Rammstein\Rosenrot\01 - Benzin.mp3</Field>
<Field Name="Artist">Rammstein</Field>
<Field Name="Album">Rosenrot</Field>
<Field Name="Name">Benzin</Field>
<Field Name="File Type">mp3</Field>
<Field Name="Genre">Rock</Field>
<Field Name="Bitrate">254</Field>
<Field Name="Image File">Rammstein - Rosenrot.jpg</Field>
<Field Name="Media Type">Audio</Field>
<Field Name="Last Played">1134658547</Field>
<Field Name="Rating">4</Field>
<Field Name="File Size">7279794</Field>
<Field Name="Duration">226</Field>
<Field Name="Number Plays">4</Field>
<Field Name="Track #">1</Field>
<Field Name="Date Created">1130368283</Field>
<Field Name="Date Modified">1130408861</Field>
<Field Name="Date Imported">1130398509</Field>
<Field Name="Replay Gain">-16,936219999999999</Field>
<Field Name="Peak Level">1</Field>
<Field Name="Intensity">5</Field>
<Field Name="BPM">139</Field>
<Field Name="Date">38353</Field>
<Field Name="Complete Album">1</Field>
<Field Name="Encoder">L397b_v2n</Field>
<Field Name="Album Rating">8</Field>
<Field Name="Lossless Archived">Y (ape + cue)</Field>
<Field Name="Album Gain">-14,9853515625</Field>
<Field Name="Sample Rate">44100</Field>
<Field Name="Channels">2</Field>
<Field Name="Bit Depth">16</Field>
<Field Name="Compression">VBR (MPEG-1.0 Layer 3)</Field>
</Item>
...

[jgreen]

I've never used itunes.  Do you have the ability within itunes to group tracks by rating?  If so, you could bring over each rating batch seperately, rate it on import in to MC and be done with it.

[Alex B]

I've never used itunes. Do you have the ability within itunes to group tracks by rating? If so, you could bring over each rating batch seperately, rate it on import in to MC and be done with it.

Thanks jgreen. That's exactly the way to do it.

Here is how I just did it:

1) I made a few new smart playlist in iTunes, one for each rating.
2) I exported the iTunes smart playlists in text only format (right-click the list name > Export Song List... > Save as type: Text files)
3) I opened the lists with Excel and removed all other columns except the column labeled "Location" that contains the filename paths. I also removed the header row.
4) I saved the files in text only format and changed the txt extensions to m3u.
5) I imported the m3u files to an empty MC library. The new playlists appeared in the Imported Playlists tree branch.
6) I rated the files inside MC, one playlist at a time.

[jgreen]

Wow.

[Alex B]

Well, it seems that Dave's friend has no excuses anymore.

BTW, there is a new public ~128 kbps listening test on progress at HA forum. The test compares the newest versions of LAME, Ogg Vorbis, Nero AAC, iTunes AAC and WMA Pro. I have tried the test program and I am quite confident the test will prove that these encoders are all very high quality and the results will be pretty much tied. The test is open for public. If someone is interested the announcement is here: http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=39448

After the test results are published it would be a good idea to update the LAME and Vorbis encoders to the tested versions. The current LAME version is 3.97 beta 2, but it is expected to be officially released any time soon. I have not heard anything about official Vorbis releases, but Vorbis AoTuV beta 4.51 is probably the best Vorbis version so far at all quality settings. I wouldn't hesitate to include it with the MC installer. I have written about its amazing quality at ~90 kbps here: http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=39233.

[JustinChase]

Thanks jgreen. That's exactly the way to do it.

Here is how I just did it:

1) I made a few new smart playlist in iTunes, one for each rating.
2) I exported the iTunes smart playlists in text only format (right-click the list name > Export Song List... > Save as type: Text files)
3) I opened the lists with Excel and removed all other columns except the column labeled "Location" that contains the filename paths. I also removed the header row.
4) I saved the files in text only format and changed the txt extensions to m3u.
5) I imported the m3u files to an empty MC library. The new playlists appeared in the Imported Playlists tree branch.
6) I rated the files inside MC, one playlist at a time.

I can't remember, as I've unistalled iTunes but i though iTunes allowed you to move files within the library.  If so, just move the 1 stars to a subdirectory, 2 stars to another, etc.

Import all the directories into MC, and reate based on subdirectories.

[Alex B]

I can't remember, as I've unistalled iTunes but i though iTunes allowed you to move files within the library. If so, just move the 1 stars to a subdirectory, 2 stars to another, etc.

Import all the directories into MC, and reate based on subdirectories.

I thought so too, but I noticed it is not so straightforward with iTunes. It doesn't have any advanced tools for moving files like MC. The only way is to let iTunes automatically organize the files (it uses always the "iTunes music folder\artist\album\" rule).

[Dave T]

Back to the topic of codecs  - my friend tells me that he's only using ITunes to organize his music.  He uses Musicmatch to rip.  So, anyone know how the MC codec compares to MM?

[GHammer]

I sincerely doubt that any of the commercial packages have a better (or even close) encoder than LAME. Then you also get the issue of settings, which are usually quite limited in other packages. MC allows you to use any settings you like.

[hit_ny]

What does your friend get by switching to MC ?

After  using iTUnes for so long....more to consider. if an Ipod is used.

..there has been work on portables in 11.1, but can MC still beat iTUnes in this area ?

[Dave T]

What does my friend get by switching to MC?  A lot more than I can think of - I'm sure.  I'm not as familiar as either app as probably most people here, but I've been using ITunes a bit because my daughter uses it to put music on her IPod, and I keep running up against little things that it either can't do, or aren't very discoverable features.

For example - when you rip or import music, I can't see a way to see a view of what you just imported.  That's one thing we just ran into.  Lots of other little things.

The main reason I want my friend to switch to MC is purely selfish.  We share our libraries, and he's rated a ton of his music.  Because the ratings aren't put in the MP3 files in ITunes, I don't see his ratings when I get music from him.

[hit_ny]

The main reason I want my friend to switch to MC is purely selfish.  We share our libraries, and he's rated a ton of his music.  Because the ratings aren't put in the MP3 files in ITunes, I don't see his ratings when I get music from him.

I guess your friend will be getting MC for X'mas then

..I'm still wating to hear whether MC can compete with iTunes wrt iPods, in terms of ease of use and functionality ?

[mhakman]

Earlier this year I did some tests of encoding algorithms and software implementing them. I’m interested in high quality encodings so I tested only 320 kbit/sec rate – the highest possible in many software packages. I couldn’t afford listening tests that to be statistically valid require rather huge resources in terms of people, money, equipment and time, so I assessed the quality by mathematically comparing differences between original recordings and recordings obtained by first encoding and then decoding the same. I also adjusted the results with respect to different file sizes produced by various algorithms and software. For my master library I eventually selected a lossless compression (FLAC). For what it’s worth here are my results for the encoders/decoders that I tested, from the best to the worst.

1.   Lame MP3
2.   Microsoft WMA Pro
3.   Ogg/Vorbis
4.   iTunes MPEG4/AAC
5.   Microsoft WMA
6.   iTunes MP3
7.   FAAC/FAAD MPEG4/AAC

The results are valid only for the actual versions of the software that I used and only for the music selection that I used in the tests.

/Mikael

[LonWar]

I guess your friend will be getting MC for X'mas then

..I'm still wating to hear whether MC can compete with iTunes wrt iPods, in terms of ease of use and functionality ?

Not to take away from this discussion, but MC is much much betther then either Itunes or anapod.
If you post this in the Handheld section guys like I0TH can shed some more lite on this subject.