Topic: POLL: JRiver Media Service? (Read 6841 times)

JimH · « **on:** January 25, 2006, 01:16:27 pm »

We're thinking about launching a music / video service. Assuming it had a price and features similar to Napster or Yahoo, what are the chances you would try it?

I know, I know, we could do lossless, etc. But the labels control what is permitted right now.

So, for $10 a month, you'd get unlimited streaming. For $15 a month, you'd be able to put the music on WM PlaysForSure devices. I know, I know, we should do iPod, but it won't happen immediately because the format and DRM are incompatible.

Thanks for your thoughts.

zxsix · « **Reply #1 on:** January 25, 2006, 01:28:28 pm »

Well, I'm pretty much against DRM.
If I pay for it then it's my business how, when and on what devices I use it on as long as I'm not sharing it with others. If it won't work on my ipod, it won't work for me though.
If the DRM is the same format that yahoo does, then there's ways around the DRM and if the price is right and good selection, then I'd probably dump yahoo music and switch over, especially if it's integrated completely into MC.

Pink Waters · « **Reply #2 on:** January 25, 2006, 01:55:35 pm »

I am not very fond of streaming music, but if you offered downloadable Mp3 albums/tracks with customized bitrates, then.. iam in

runemail · « **Reply #3 on:** January 25, 2006, 01:59:04 pm »

USA only?

It would be exactly like yahoo/napster, just inside MC right?

Unlimited video?

I would never use it. But if I am able to remove the service I don't mind..

Why not try bleep.com instead?

gholliger · « **Reply #4 on:** January 25, 2006, 02:02:02 pm »

I would definitely try it. Although I prefer to buy CD's I do buy from iTunes if I can't find a particular song on CD. I also subscribe to Rhapsody. I like to use subs. to preview songs or to bulk up on songs I don't particularly want to buy but may need temporarily, such as childrens songs when my curtain climbers have freinds over.
A music service in Media Center would be perfect for me. I could import my iTunes songs into MC and wouldn't need to have 2 different library's.

hit_ny · « **Reply #5 on:** January 25, 2006, 02:02:21 pm »

Quote from: JimH on January 25, 2006, 01:16:27 pm

So, for $10 a month, you'd get unlimited streaming.

1. What would the skip policy be like ?

ie, can i skip an unlimited amount of times or am i forced to listen to tracks as they are played off your server.

2. Is there any way to customise listening, ie make playlists and hear those playlists, share them even among ppl on the same service.

3. How big is the library on offer ?

Deivit · « **Reply #6 on:** January 25, 2006, 02:17:25 pm »

I assume it would be US-only, right?
We still don't have any of those services available here.

JimH · « **Reply #7 on:** January 25, 2006, 02:24:14 pm »

Quote from: Deivit on January 25, 2006, 02:17:25 pm

I assume it would be US-only, right?
We still don't have any of those services available here.

Correct.

Rob L · « **Reply #8 on:** January 25, 2006, 02:29:52 pm »

Rules me out on two counts then - I'm in the UK, and I'm not going to buy DRM WMA.

Unlikely to be interested in streaming either - especially as I listen to music more often away from home than at home.

JimH · « **Reply #9 on:** January 25, 2006, 02:30:00 pm »

Quote from: hit_ny on January 25, 2006, 02:02:21 pm

1. What would the skip policy be like ?

ie, can i skip an unlimited amount of times or am i forced to listen to tracks as they are played off your server.

2. Is there any way to customise listening, ie make playlists and hear those playlists, share them even among ppl on the same service.

3. How big is the library on offer ?

The library would be comparable to Yahoo.

I shouldn't have said streaming. It isn't just a radio. The latest subscription services, which this would be, offer you the ability to download tracks to your PC and play them just as you could other tracks you have on your PC. With the $15 level, you can put them on a portable device and play them there. They're considered tethered downloads, but the usage is just the same as you'd have with unprotected files, except for burning. If you burn an audio CD, you need to purchase ($0.99).

I may not be able to keep up with the questions on details, but the service would be very competitive on features.

We've implemented support for several such services in the past, so it would be a high quality integration and a good experience.

hit_ny · « **Reply #10 on:** January 25, 2006, 02:44:02 pm »

Quote from: JimH on January 25, 2006, 02:30:00 pm

The library would be comparable to Yahoo.

I shouldn't have said streaming. It isn't just a radio. The latest subscription services, which this would be, offer you the ability to download tracks to your PC and play them just as you could other tracks you have on your PC. With the $15 level, you can put them on a portable device and play them there. They're considered tethered downloads, but the usage is just the same as you'd have with unprotected files, except for burning. If you burn an audio CD, you need to purchase ($0.99).

Thats the part i wanted to know, why bother to download just yet if you can pick what you want and have that stream back to you anytime.

It's getting at what i said in an earlier thread.

JimH · « **Reply #11 on:** January 25, 2006, 02:51:00 pm »

Quote from: hit_ny on January 25, 2006, 02:44:02 pm

Thats the part i wanted to know, why bother to download just yet if you can pick what you want and have that stream back to you anytime.

There are three possibilities with the new services. You can:

1. Stream a track from a server
2. Download a track for replay later on your PC or on a portable device
3. Download and purchase

#2 is interesting because you don't actually buy the track. You have almost unlimited use of it as long as you're a subscriber. The only restriction is that you can't burn it to an audio CD. But you can use it on a handheld just like any other track.

The advantage is that you don't have to use up your bandwidth when you're playing it.

Pink Waters · « **Reply #12 on:** January 25, 2006, 03:33:11 pm »

Well. i see that its a right step to to lead MC to a complete multimedia package (as iTunes).
i like the idea very much..
but i'd be very happy if this service is accessable in my country..
please j. river try to make it international sevice..

Myron · « **Reply #13 on:** January 25, 2006, 03:48:04 pm »

I voted "Maybe" because I'm not interested in paying for compressed music and it sounds like there's a possibility that lossless would be available in the future.

glynor · « **Reply #14 on:** January 25, 2006, 05:17:07 pm »

Quote from: camper on January 25, 2006, 05:07:14 pm

The choice I selected was I won't buy from any music service..

What that selection really means, and the reason I chose it is, "I won't rent from any music service." When I purchase music, I want to purchase it permanently.

Here! Here!

I thought I'd mention quickly that if you want to engage in a discussion on the merits (or lack there of) of DRM laden media in general, that particular facet of this discussion was split off over here.

(With good reason, but I felt that people stumbling upon this thread should be aware of the parallel conversation).

Relating to what I wrote above... The only other goal I could see for any company to jump into the fray at this point would be to become a potential buyout target for one of the big boys. This may be all fine and good to make a buck, but I certainly hope that's not where JRiver's hoping to head. (And I really doubt that, they seem to care about their customers far too much for that).

And that's all I really have to say on that subject. I think I've made my point and I'll let it go at that.

(Probably).

alanl · « **Reply #15 on:** January 25, 2006, 05:42:14 pm »

I voted 'Never' because:

1. I'm in the UK
2. I can buy a CD on the 'net (Tesco Jersey, Amazon) for less than the price that I can download from on-line music stores, and I then have a permanent, high quality, backup.
3. If I want streaming music I'll use a Shoutcast radio station. Yes, I know I have no control over content but in this situation I generally just want background music anyway.
4. DRM

Sorry Jim, I know you need to generate revenue, but this is not for me.

jimpmc · « **Reply #16 on:** January 25, 2006, 06:44:37 pm »

If it is comparable to Yahoo, what is the justification from the consumer's perspective to paying twice as much per month?

-J

EpF · « **Reply #17 on:** January 25, 2006, 08:06:45 pm »

I voted 'maybe' - it would have to be available in Europe for me to avail of it, and I'd want choice of formats i.e., a lossless option - that would be the thing that made me check it out. At the moment I don't subscribe to any music services.

Mysticeti · « **Reply #18 on:** January 25, 2006, 09:11:43 pm »

I voted "maybe". I don't see myself using such a service now but I might in the future.

Most people look at the cost/benefit analysis for rent vs own and only rent if they can't afford to own. Thinking out loud: Is music fundementally different from cars or houses or other rent/lease vs buy/own scenarios? What do you think?

Matt · « **Reply #19 on:** January 25, 2006, 10:29:03 pm »

Quote from: Mysticeti on January 25, 2006, 09:11:43 pm

Most people look at the cost/benefit analysis for rent vs own and only rent if they can't afford to own. Thinking out loud: Is music fundementally different from cars or houses or other rent/lease vs buy/own scenarios? What do you think?

This one is open for debate. I can't own telephone service, TV programming, or my electricity. If I want to use any of them, I pay each month.

glynor · « **Reply #20 on:** January 25, 2006, 11:39:59 pm »

It is certainly open to debate. Is music more like telephone service and electricity (you can own television programming by recording it with your VCR so I disagree on that count) or more of a commodity?

It's always been sold as a commodity since the "recording revolution". Only before recording was possible was music really anything approaching a service, but maybe times have changed again...

GHammer · « **Reply #21 on:** January 25, 2006, 11:51:18 pm »

Just find my guarantee that I can use what I pay for as long as I am willing to pay and I might think about it.

Even when a provider is still active there are problems.
In the past year, I have been asked at least 10 times to help people play their music. When I get into their machines, it is that they reinstalled or bought a new machine. They have DRM's music that the licenses are gone or for the old system. Mainly this has been with the WalMart store.

Sure, they should read about backups, they should know how to move to a new machine. But most people don't.

I'm firmly in the "No thanks" camp, and not likely to change. Old dog, or whatever...

jgreen · « **Reply #22 on:** January 26, 2006, 12:04:10 am »

Napster lets me play what I want from their 1,000,000+ track library when and how I want. The downside is the DRM is clumsy, etc. If I pay you $10/month to stream, does that mean no DRM hassles? And can I play what I want and when? Currently WMA DRM is slow and buggy. MP3 web strreaming is perfect, except I can't play what I want and when. Are you proposing to combine the best of both? Because I've got a $10 bill in my hand, ready to go.

park · « **Reply #23 on:** January 26, 2006, 01:16:09 am »

I chose never, because of the DRM (like most).
I can just about settle the idea of buying lossy music (because my colleciton is kept in mp3 format), but never at 128kb, and never with drm.

Audio lunchbox has the right idea, with reasonable quality mp3s (190kbs) and a no drm policy. I have purchased from there before.

Subscription is out of the question. One of us (me or the shop), is gonna get tired of the other one day, and after that day, what choice would I have but to join another subscription service (if that market even still exists at that point).

hit_ny · « **Reply #24 on:** January 26, 2006, 02:35:30 am »

The point to be considered with streaming services is Discovery

There is a lot of good stuff out there but how do you know whether you will like it or not. So you rely on your social network or various reviews etc. Or you have a few friends that you closely trust.

I think that's still slower than try before you buy.

The key for streaming to take off is that they allow their customers enough freedom to listen to what, how & when they want. Once you know what you like no one is saying you can't get to a store and buy the actual CD.

But from what i read at another service this still isn't there just yet. They say

Our licenses do not allow unlimited skips per hour. The idea here is that you should not be able to skip ahead to find exactly the song you might be looking for. An unlimited number of skips could effectively provide "track on demand" which is not allowed in a streaming radio product.

I realise this does not pertain to what JRiver might be offering, but the wording implies that it's for any streaming service.

What if this was relaxed but still keeping DRM, i bet more ppl would be interested. In a few months you could get an excellent idea of what's on offer. You have your playlists, favorites etc.

Now what, they know what you like, why not throw in a special offer where you can get your favorite CDs at a discount. On the books it would look like each subscriber was buying the equivalent of an album a month.

For a certain (?) amount of people it might actually be easier to rent than own, in the short term.

GHammer · « **Reply #25 on:** January 26, 2006, 04:45:39 am »

Ah, the short term. It is the Holy Grail of most business plans it seems.

The original question here is not DRM, it was if I'd subscribe to a music service.
And for the reasons I've outlined elsewhere, for me, the answer is no.

I can listen to radio, online radio, other sources for 'discovery'. Then when I think something has value, I'll go buy it as a CD and use it where and when I want.

KingSparta · « **Reply #26 on:** January 26, 2006, 04:59:12 pm »

The only Service I Have Used To Buy MPs Is mp3.com and i bought about 20 cd's from them.

I bought one track from ITUNES it was a good interface and i may buy more from them.

I am not really into Todays music 60's, 70's, and 80's is better

Chazworth · « **Reply #27 on:** January 26, 2006, 05:13:24 pm »

I actively use both the Yahoo music service (mostly at work), and the Musicmatch service (at home), and they are the greatest thing ever. The music discovery aspect of it is the best part.

I am still a huge J River fan, so although Yahoo and Musicmatch have significant capabilities for me to also manage my ripped music collection, I always use J River to manage and listen to my (owned) music files. I would love to get the best of both worlds, so I would strongly support a J River music service.

Music (and video) subscriptions are the future, without a doubt.

Charlie

LonWar · « **Reply #28 on:** January 26, 2006, 09:18:43 pm »

I can get most albums from a used CD place here in Canada for 10 CDN or under.
That I can rip as many times as I want and play on any device I want.

I don't think I would ever rent music.

GHammer · « **Reply #29 on:** January 26, 2006, 11:06:04 pm »

Quote from: KingSparta on January 26, 2006, 04:59:12 pm

The only Service I Have Used To Buy MPs Is mp3.com and i bought about 20 cd's from them.

I bought one track from ITUNES it was a good interface and i may buy more from them.

I am not really into Todays music 60's, 70's, and 80's is better

Ah, you are a candidate for satellite radio my friend.
Just poke around and listen to CD quality music by people you have never heard.
You won't ilke some of it, but you'll find plenty you do like.
An enterprising person could probably find a way to capture the tunes as well.

It is one of the things I miss here.

Marty3d · « **Reply #30 on:** January 27, 2006, 04:37:03 am »

I voted maybe, for a number of reasons.

1. No. As you have seen in other discussions, I'm one of those who actually like to own my music without restrictions. I want to buy music online, but buy CD's only in order to do what I want with my music.

2. No. Simple one; I live in Sweden and your service, despite the globalization of internet, it can't reach this far.

3. Yes. Video. I believe streaming video is another bag than music. Most people doesn't care for owning a film as they do with music, instead it's quite allright to view a movie and then return it. I've been dying to get Video On Demand with new movies and tv series. The services we have here shows no tv series at all and a couple of 3-30 year old movies. No thanks for that. But I really like to see a service that replaces the local video store.

Thanks,
/Martin

JorgeGVB · « **Reply #31 on:** January 27, 2006, 07:03:48 am »

I have no interest in streaming audio and I prefer to own the CD than to download music.

glynor · « **Reply #32 on:** January 27, 2006, 07:56:12 am »

Quote from: Marty3d on January 27, 2006, 04:37:03 am

3. Yes. Video. I believe streaming video is another bag than music. Most people doesn't care for owning a film as they do with music, instead it's quite allright to view a movie and then return it. I've been dying to get Video On Demand with new movies and tv series. The services we have here shows no tv series at all and a couple of 3-30 year old movies. No thanks for that. But I really like to see a service that replaces the local video store.

It's odd, but I too would be interested in a service like this (with a couple of similar ands, ifs, and buts). Video is inherently different from music because it's replay value is far lower. The vast majority of TV shows (except maybe HBOs and the old West Wings) and Movies I'd never want to re-watch again. Therefore, streaming/limited use == okay.

Myron · « **Reply #33 on:** January 27, 2006, 08:05:19 am »

Quote from: GHammer on January 26, 2006, 11:06:04 pm

Just poke around and listen to CD quality music ....

Oh no, there's that "CD quality" term again! I don't mean to hijack this thread, just want to keep thinks straight.

Satellite radio is digital, but it also uses lossy compression and is therefore not CD quality.

The terms gets thrown around so much it's pretty much lost its meaning...

skeeterfood · « **Reply #34 on:** January 27, 2006, 09:30:05 am »

Unlike most people here (it seems), I'm a fan of subscription services. My music tastes vary from day-to-day and other than a few select artists I don't re-listen a whole lot. For $10/month I can listen to all the new/new-to-me music I want. It would cost me a LOT more to buy all the CDs to try out new artists. As long as it's > 128k WMA (Rhapsody's 160k sounds good to me)...

If you can put together a Rhapsody-like service with these few upgrades, I'll definitely try it out:
1) Narrow searches by date. (I'd love to be able to go to a genre and browse all music from the last year/10 years/...)
2) Be able to rate streaming radio songs to mark artists I hate/love and quit playing them/play them more often. (Like Launchcast's radio) Rhapsody's pick 10 artists method usually brings in too much outside what I was looking for.

I'll never pay a per/track/cd fee to download DRM'ed files I get to "keep"/burn though. If I'm going to "buy" something, I want it free and clear.

-John

brossmac · « **Reply #35 on:** January 27, 2006, 10:42:42 am »

I use the Yahoo Music Unlimited service and like it a lot. Somebody above mentioned the "Discovery" factor, and that's a BIG feature for me. I don't listen to radio (and there isn't a lot of good radio out there anyway) and so I don't get a chance to hear new (or old-but-undiscovered) music. And then there's the stuff that people recommend on discussion boards or e-mail lists. With YME, I can stream the album that somebody just recommended to see if it's something I want.

And I can also load it onto my iRiver MP3 player and listen to it wherever I want.

At this point I use YME just for streaming and downloading. Then I manage it all in MC. I'd love to have it all in one space, but I'm not sure at this point that I'd pay $15 a month for that when I'm paying $6 a month for what I have now.

But I might. I'm aiming toward simplicity in my life and having one app where before I had two might be worth it.

Jaqqe · « **Reply #36 on:** January 28, 2006, 06:05:41 am »

Quote from: KingSparta on January 26, 2006, 04:59:12 pm

I am not really into Todays music 60's, 70's, and 80's is better

God (or equivalent) bless you Sparta for speaking the truest of words

If I was to buy music online (ie NOT on CD but as files) JRiver system might be one of the more interesting ones. However as long as (and this might be forever) the files can not be used exactöy as I want due to technical restrictions, I'm not interested in buying from anyone.

Oh yes, and despite Conan O'brien's recent publicity campaign, I still live outside the US of A.

KingSparta · « **Reply #37 on:** January 28, 2006, 09:34:16 am »

I think this poll would be better if it was on J Rivers "Start" Screen

The reason I Say That Is You Have Some Of The Most Music Anal People in the world that reads the forum (I mean that in a good way).

To get a true Poll this poll would need to be seen by all the users not just the ones that visit the forum.

kiwi · « **Reply #38 on:** February 10, 2006, 09:11:37 am »

I said never. Unfortunately, I have an iPod and if I can't get my music onto it, I probably won't purchase music.

kiwi

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Author Topic: POLL: JRiver Media Service? (Read 6841 times)