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Author Topic: Using Media Center to run my wholehouse audio system  (Read 10366 times)

Kremlar

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Using Media Center to run my wholehouse audio system
« on: March 06, 2006, 06:59:00 pm »

I'm looking for a product to fit into my wholehouse audio plans, and I'm hoping Media Center is the product.

I currently have speakers and volume controls in 8 areas of my house.  I'm currently using a PC running WinAmp to send music through my house.  Each room has it's own volume control.  Currently all rooms play the same WinAmp source.  I change tracks/playlists through a product called BrowseAmp, which allows the WinAmp interface to be controlled through a web browser.

I plan on moving to a more advanced setup in the near future.  I will be replacing the existing volume controls with units that will allow switching between inputs.  I plan on having an amp/switcher/distribution box that will provide my 8 different rooms with up to 4 or more different sources.

I have 3 main goals in mind - #1 to have a variety of sources to choose from, #2 to run different sources simultaneously in different zones, #3 to make the controls more user-friendly.

I would like some or all of those sources to come from a PC (since I'm a PC-centric guy).  Probably 2 sources of MP3 playback, 1 source for web radio, and maybe a 4th source for FM radio.

Media Center caught my eye since it allows for multiple simultaneous zones.  I recently downloaded and installed the trial copy, I'm still learning.

I was hoping some people could point me in the right direction.

 - Does Media Center sound like the product for me?  Is there anything else that might be a better match?

 - I've been reading into controlling MediaCenter with NetRemote.  Does this work well and reliably?  Will I be able to pickup a PocketPC, easily choose the Zone I want to control, and change the track or playlist for that zone easily?

 - Are there any other types of control applications for Media Center?  Maybe some sort of web interface, or even better maybe an add-on for Windows MediaCenter?  I have several MediaCenter PCs through my house, and it would be nice to be able to hop onto one of those and control my wholehouse audio.

 - Does Media Center support any FM tuner cards?

My biggest concern is that I'll be able to 'dumb down' the Media Center interface so that other members of my household can easily hope on and make changes.  I don't want the ability to make big changes, just basic changes such as 'next track' and the ability to choose a playlist.  I can create/edit playlists myself from the main console.

I really appreciate any help/advice anyone could give on this...

Thanks!
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SomeOneWho

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Re: Using Media Center to run my wholehouse audio system
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2006, 06:20:30 pm »

Kremlar,

What you're looking to do is definitely possible and there are many, many ways of accomplishing your objectives.  I'm doing  pretty much exactly what you describe in my home.

As a general response to your question, I don't think you'll find  a more powerful or flexible product than Media Center to serve as  your PC-based media hub.  I'm a very PC-centric kinda guy myself,  have been using it for years, and I've been very, very pleased  with it.

Our whole house system is configured as follows:

- The central whole house distribution system is a Russound CAV6.6.  The Russound supports up to six A/V sources, six keypad-controlled zones, and four A-Bus subzones.  The Russound web site has all the detailed specs and manuals for their products.

- Wiring-wise, you need to run Cat5 between each of the keypads  and the Russound controller, and speaker cable from each of the speakers to  the Russound controller.  The Russound has 20 watt amplifiers for each zone, so you  may need to use external amplifiers if the zone space is medium  to large.

- I use a Russound ST-2 tuner that provides XM and AM/FM as two of the sources.  A third source  is a Slim Devices Squeezebox in the kitchen (another handy alternative for accessing your PC-based  music).  A fourth source is one of the cable TV boxes (our cable system has excellent non-commercial, all-music channels).

- To route remote A/V sources back to the Russound controller (over Cat5) I've used both MuxLab S-video/audio baluns and Elan A/V input wall plates.  Both have worked very effectively.

- A PC with copies of all my music and photos (running Media Center, of course) is collocated with the  Russound controller because of all the wires that run between the two.

- A fine fellow named Carl Hyslop developed (and provides for free) an add-on program for MC11 that allows you to integrate MC11 with the Russound controller.  This is done by connecting a serial cable between the PC and the Russound controller.  The program lets you use any of the Russound keypads to select MC11 playlists to play and to control playback (next song, previous song, mute, etc.).  The program also displays the currently playing song title and artist on  the keypad displays.  The program supports up to six independent MC11 zones as sources, so you can have different MC11 zones playing in different rooms.   You can get a copy of the program, and learn more about it, on the AVS Forum thread "CAV6.6 / MC11 link software".

- I also have the S-video output from the PC modulated into a  channel on the antenna cable that goes to all the TVs in the  house.  I then run MC11 in theater view mode as a "simple" way  for people to view and control MC11's library and playlists.  The PC is controlled from each TV  location using URC MX-850 programmable remotes that communicate commands (via  RF) to an IR receiver connected to the PC.   The only downside  here is that you can control only one MC11 zone (Russound source) at a time. 

- VNC also gets used quite a bit to remotely control the Media Center PC from any of the other PCs in the house.

My eight-year-old, and even my wife, find it easy to select and control just about everything -- we're listening to music ALL the time now. I've had an absolute blast putting it all together, but I was lucky to be starting with a whole-house remodeling project where I could run wire and install ceiling/wall speakers wherever I wanted relatively cheaply.

A couple of other things you might want to investigate:

- I haven't tried it, but I believe that Media Center has a simple web-based interface that allows a remote client to control the server.  I recall some recent forum postings that  describe how this works.

- I'm not aware of any add-ons for Windows MediaCenter, but MC11 can act as a universal plug-and-play (uPnP) server.  There are several uPnP client devices available that have their own display/remote, or that use a TV and remote, that would let you remotely control MC11 playback.

Lots of luck!
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JimH

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Re: Using Media Center to run my wholehouse audio system
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2006, 06:38:38 pm »

- A fine fellow named Carl Hyslop developed (and provides for free) an add-on program for MC11 that allows you to integrate MC11 with the Russound controller.  This is done by connecting a serial cable between the PC and the Russound controller.  The program lets you use any of the Russound keypads to select MC11 playlists to play and to control playback (next song, previous song, mute, etc.).  The program also displays the currently playing song title and artist on  the keypad displays.  The program supports up to six independent MC11 zones as sources, so you can have different MC11 zones playing in different rooms.   You can get a copy of the program, and learn more about it, on the AVS Forum thread "CAV6.6 / MC11 link software".

Nice post!  Thanks!

The software C Hyslop offers at AVS Forum is here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=534233

He's hyslopc there and zoner here.
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Kremlar

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Re: Using Media Center to run my wholehouse audio system
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2006, 09:41:42 pm »

Thanks for the great reply!

It seems a lot of people use the CAV6.6 even though they're just switching audio.  Any reason why I can't juse use a CAM6.6, or am I missing something?

Can you tell me what a A-Bus subzone is?

All my wiring is complete, and correct.  My only issue is that before the drywall was up, I installed single gang boxes for my volume controls.  Now I'm wishing I installed 2-gang boxes for larger control panels, and I'm not sure if I can swap them cleanly since they are nailed to the studs.  :( 

The application you mentioned sounds awesome, something I would definitely like to do (skipping tracks, track info on the keypad, etc.).

Thanks again for the great info!
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SomeOneWho

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Re: Using Media Center to run my wholehouse audio system
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2006, 11:24:39 pm »

Kremlar,

Sounds like you're well on your way!

I'm not as familiar with the CAM6.6 but I took a quick look at  the brochure.  In addition to being audio-only, as you'd mentioned,  there are a couple of other minor differences you might want to  note. It doesn't look like the CAM6.6 supports A-Bus subzones,  which means you'd be limited to six zones (unless you buy two and  daisy-chain them!).  The CAM6.6 also doesn't seem to have source loop-outs, which I've used to re-route the XM signals and a couple of other  sources to the home theater systems (there are other very easy ways to accomplish this, however).     

I know some folks *do* use their CAV6.6 for video switching, in particular with Tivos, but I did this in a different way (modulation) because of my setup.

Carl Hyslop's MC11 add-on software works with both the CAV6.6 and CAM6.6, so you're good there.

I'd strongly recommend that you go with the (double-gang) UNO-S2  keypads and not the (single-gang) UNO-S1 keypads.  The extra  display width (to display song titles, etc.) and additional  control buttons make for a much more functional and usable  interface.  For example, the UNO-S1 doesn't even have a "Play"  button, which makes control of sources like MC11 somewhat  challenging. I think it would be well worth your time to swap-in  the double-gang boxes.

A-Bus subzones differ from regular zones in several respects.  An  A-Bus zone uses a different, and much simpler, keypad (I'm using  the Russound A-KP2 keypads).  The keypad basically just supports  zone on/off, volume control, and selection of at most four  different sources (sources 1-4 on the controller).  Also, the  keypad has the zone amplifier built-in, which means the speaker  cable needs to run to the keypad, not the controller.  You still  run Cat5 between the keypad and the controller.  Given their  simplicity, I use A-Bus zones in two of the bathrooms and the  dining room.

If you want to support eight zones with the Russound equipment you'll need to either use A-Bus subzones or buy two controllers and daisy-chain them.                               
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Kremlar

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Re: Using Media Center to run my wholehouse audio system
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2006, 07:26:28 am »

Thanks again!

I was planning on 2 units, but after readinbg about A-Bus and you're info, maybe I can get by with only 1.

I have keypads in the following locations:

Dining Room
Living Room
Kitchen
Master Bedroom
Master Bathroom
Deck
Garage
Office

I may go with A-Bus for the bathroom and garage...

At least that's 2 locations I won't have to yank the single gang boxes!  :)

Thanks again for all your help, I might order everything up today...
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JohnT

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Re: Using Media Center to run my wholehouse audio system
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2006, 09:23:27 am »

At least that's 2 locations I won't have to yank the single gang boxes!  :)
Just a construction note:
I had to swap a double gang box for single gang and it wasn't too difficult. I just used a "sawzall" with metal cutting blade to cut off the nails between the box and the stud, then enlarged the drywall hole, then inserted an "old work" type double gang box which just fastens to the drywall with little clips that flip out and tighten with a screw.
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John Thompson, JRiver Media Center

Kremlar

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Re: Using Media Center to run my wholehouse audio system
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2006, 09:41:30 am »

Quote
Just a construction note:
I had to swap a double gang box for single gang and it wasn't too difficult. I just used a "sawzall" with metal cutting blade to cut off the nails between the box and the stud, then enlarged the drywall hole, then inserted an "old work" type double gang box which just fastens to the drywall with little clips that flip out and tighten with a screw.

Thanks.  That's the type of confidence building I need.  ;)
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Kremlar

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Re: Using Media Center to run my wholehouse audio system
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2006, 10:48:02 am »

Just to followup, I went ahead and ordered the following:

 - Russound CAV6.6 MultiZone Controller
 - (6) Rusound UNO-S2 Keypads
 - Russound A-PS A-Bus Power Supply
 - (2) Russound A-KP2 A-Bus Keypads

Hope to receive them tomorrow by Monday.

I haven't trid to cut out any of those single gang boxes yet, but hope to sometime before this weekend.

I have my JRiver Media Center PC setup with 4 sound cards.  I plan on using Carl Hyslop's MC11 add-on to send data to my control pads.  I also plan on using NetRemote (or maybe checking out CQC) for PC control of Media Center 11.

Thanks so much for all the help!
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SomeOneWho

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Re: Using Media Center to run my wholehouse audio system
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2006, 07:36:42 am »

Kremlar,

One thought just occured to me... the amplifier in the A-Bus keypad is only 7.5 watts.  Depending on how voluminous your garage is, and how much you might want to crank-up the volume while working in the garage, you might want to consider putting the A-Bus keypad in the dining room instead of the garage.  For dining rooms you'd more typically want low-volume background music whereas the extra volume in the garage might be better appreciated.  Just food for thought.

Lots of luck!
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Kremlar

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Re: Using Media Center to run my wholehouse audio system
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2006, 08:17:49 am »

Thanks for the heads up on that.  I've been thinking about that anyway - I don't think we've ever eaten in the dining room, never mind used the music.  ;)
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Dean Roddey

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Re: Using Media Center to run my wholehouse audio system
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2006, 09:12:15 pm »

You can definitely combine JRiver with CQC, though we don't currently support it as a player, just as a ripper/meta-data source. We support another player for multi-zone playback.

Here are some media management interfaces from my own system, created using our interface designer. The music metadata is from JRiver.

http://charmedquark.com/Web2/Downloads/MiscImages/BlueFantasyPreview.jpg

http://charmedquark.com/Web2/Downloads/MiscImages/BlueFantasyPreview7.jpg

http://charmedquark.com/Web2/Downloads/MiscImages/BlueFantasyPreview6.jpg

http://charmedquark.com/Web2/Downloads/MiscImages/BlueFantasyPreview4.jpg

http://charmedquark.com/Web2/Downloads/MiscImages/BlueFantasyPreview2.jpg

http://charmedquark.com/Web2/Downloads/MiscImages/BlueFantasyPreview5.jpg


You can feed the outputs from the multi-zone card into a Russound or Xantech or Autopatch switcher plus mutli-zone amp, which you can control via CQC as well, and create a quite nice multi-zone system, all controlled from touch pads (you can use products like the RedRadio touch panels, www. redradio.com, PocketPCs, wireless tablets, other computers, etc...)
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Dean Roddey
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Re: Using Media Center to run my wholehouse audio system
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2006, 09:29:42 pm »

A couple of tips on the CAV.  Although the power is only 20w/ch, you may find it's adequate for all but the largest rooms.  Don't equate zone with room, you can run several rooms off of a zone (with external amplification.  Zones 1 thru 4 on the CAV have preamp level outputs with volume controlled by the keypad in that zone.  In fact if two rooms are close enough that it doesn't make sense to have different music playing in 'em, make one room a sub-zone of the first and save the spare zone for another area of your home.  For CAV zones 1-4, you can create sub-zones (3) ways:

1. w/ external amplification from the variable volume preamp outs
2. A-Bus sub zone
3. By connecting a resister circuit to the A-Bus output to give a fixed preamp level output.

I tend to like #3, coupled with a good old fashioned autoformer volume control in the sub-zone.

The simple schematic for the resistor circuit in the doc library (registration required) on Russound's site.

The CAV also has a paging circuit that was omitted from the CAM, that may or not be important to you.

Oh and I completely agree with the prior poster, about not getting any UNO-S1 pads, definitely go for the 2-gang s2's for the reasons given.

TechHome
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buckeyefan4lyf

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Re: Using Media Center to run my wholehouse audio system
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2006, 10:58:22 pm »

hello everyone, this is my first post so you'll all have to bear with me.

kremlar, great topic by the way.  i've been trying to do the same thing that you've been looking to do.

my question is how are you all getting multi-zone playback out of your pc.  i just downloaded mc11 for the trial, installed it and tried to setup 2 zones for simple playback.  when i toggle between the 2 zones, they show 2 diff titles playing.  however that is not the case audibly sort of speak.  i've got an abit motherboard with the realtek 7.1ch on board sound.  thru mc11, i setup zone1 for the front left/right channels and zone2 for rear left/right.  all i'm hearing is the song that is being played on zone1 and not zone2.  not sure what's going on.  i thought i could use this single multi-channel sound device and configure it for 4 zones.  or do i need to used separate sound cards per zone.  thanks.
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Go Bucks!!

Kremlar

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Re: Using Media Center to run my wholehouse audio system
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2006, 11:27:26 am »

Figured I owe this thread an update.

SomeOneWho:  thanks so much for the help, both here and on AVS Forum - you've definitely pushed me along the direction I wanted to go in.

Dean:  Thanks for the info on your CQC.  I plan on checking CQC out with a touchscreen for central system control and possibly automation, but I still wanted the Russound keypads for basic audio control. 

BuckEye:  Not sure you can do that with a multi-channel sound card, but maybe someone else can help.  I'm using multiple sound cards, since they are cheap and I had some kicking around and it works as you'd expect - great.  I've also seen some people recommend a multi-output card from M-Audio, but I don't remember the model off-hand...  I'm using the CAV66.EXE utility to dump song info to the keypads and control MC11.

My system is up and running with very few remaining issues.  I have the CAV6.6 setup with 4 sources (3 MP3 sources from MC11 and one web comedy source).  I hope to use XM and possibly FM for the other 2 sources in the future.  I'm using the 2-gang S2s for 6 zones, plus 2 subzones (master bath and dining room) - removing the old boxes was a breeze.  I was able to actually just pry the nails out of the studs with a flat head screwdriver.

I still need to setup good playlists, and I'm hoping the author of CAV66 will make a small change for me.  I'm also planning on adding some kind of web radio, I want to check out what MC11 supports.  I wish MC11 supported FM tuners too...  I also want to have some sort of portable touchscreen control, maybe a PDA or something slightly larger, possibly running NetRemote or CQC - once I get everything else rock solid.  Controlling the system from my Windows Media Center PCs (without deviating much from the MCE interface) is also on my list.

Anyway, thanks again guys and I hope I've helped a few people out in the process!

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