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[JaredH]

8. NEW: Panes now filter in both directions. (experiment -- may not remain)

Really NOT diggin this feature. It's just not very intuitive. Too much clicking to get back to my full panes.

I use one view scheme for Albums. Under that view scheme i have Genre, Artist, then Album panes. It gets rather lengthy trying to get all of my Genres back up.

I've been rather whiney lately. I promise I'll stop soon.

[Matt]

Really NOT diggin this feature. It's just not very intuitive. Too much clicking to get back to my full panes.

I use one view scheme for Albums. Under that view scheme i have Genre, Artist, then Album panes. It gets rather lengthy trying to get all of my Genres back up.

I've been rather whiney lately. I promise I'll stop soon.

We thought of this.  Click the "Click Here To Reset Selection" link in the view header.  It appears anytime you have pane filtering.

[marko]

only had a qick play so far, but for images, first impressions are very positive. I'm liking it a lot.

clicking "click here to reset' does indeed reset all panes selections to all, but the file list does not update to reflect this selection.

[glynor]

I guess I don't get what's different.  Could anyone explain?

[tcman41]

Not to sound like a knob but what is pane filtering and what does filtering in both directions mean and/or do?

Thanks 

TC   

(soon to be knobless)   

[glynor]

Oh, I get it now (I had to roll back to 163 to figure it out, since I generally use the tree not the panes).  Wow.  I never really realized it didn't work that way before!!  It's really much better this way, though as I said, I don't typically use them (but maybe this is one of the reasons why now that I think about it).

[glynor]

The change, tcman, is in the way the pane navigation works.  For example, pull up a Genre/Artist/Album type view scheme.  Now, leaving Genre and Artist set to All scroll through the list and choose an Album that you know corresponds to a certain Artist and Genre.  In 165 the other two panes (Genre/Artist) will change to list only the fields that match the Album you picked.  In prior versions they did not, they just kept listing everything.

For example, say I have an Album from a Soundtrack in my list, which has (obviously) a bunch of artists on it, and is spread over two or three Genres (say Classical, Alternative Rock, and Drum and Bass).  Now, if you choose that Album directly in the Album list (all the way at the right of the Panes) the other two panes will change to only list Classical, Alternative, and Drum and Bass (and the Artist one will only show artists that appear on that Album).

Its actually pretty cool for that purpose, and it just seems more intuitive to me.  As marko mentioned, it is also useful for browsing Images (as you can "filter up" from matching keywords to see what Albums they all fall into).  Hmmm... I might just start using the Panes a little if this sticks around!

There you go... Hopefully all de-knobbed and whatnot.

[bytestar]

I like that, it is very practical for me.

We thought of this.  Click the "Click Here To Reset Selection" link in the view header.  It appears anytime you have pane filtering.

[LonWar]

I love it..... When panes were introduced in 9.1 I asked about this.... I just didn't understand whey all the panes reset soons as you clicked on a different item...


PLEASE PLEASE do not change this back...

Thanks.

[tcman41]

I have always used panes from the start, i am not sure i am seeing the true value of double filtering.

Glynor's example was listing all the artists from a soundtrack, only problem is if one is doing this correctly, aka album artist (auto), then it just comes up multiple artists.

TC  ? (still seem to have the knobby feeling) 

[glynor]

only problem is if one is doing this correctly, aka album artist (auto), then it just comes up multiple artists.

Who says that's the correct way?  I use and like using the plain old vanilla [Artist] and [Album] tags thank you very much.   

Wow.  I really like this now!  Using it with Control-Selecting sub-items is great too. 

[EpF]

This really is great; I guess that clicking 'reset' is supposed to reset the lower, files view and it just has a bug at the moment. Apart from that, it's so handy, and saves a huge amount of clicking and resetting of linear pane-filtering. It's suddenly as though this is what I always thought panes should do, but didn't know it!

[lalittle]

I "thought" I'd like this change when I read about it, but I quickly found that when looking at any given album/artist/etc., I miss being able to just select a different artist/genre/etc. without having to hit "reset selection" first.

After more investigation, I found that some of my general tasks seem to be more difficult and require more thought.  I now have to think about the "genre" pane BEFORE I make selections in the other panes.  If I don't do this, the other selections I may want will disappear until I "reset selection," which of course clears the file list.  With the new behavior, I find that I need to constantly "start over" with the "reset selection" switch.

I prefer the previous behavior at this point, so I would defintely vote for it to be an OPTIONAL behavior so those of us who prefer the previous behavior are not forced to use it.

Thanks,

Larry

[park]

That's not strictly true lalittle. You could just select the "all" of any particular pane to reset just it and continue refining your selections. This is the way I've always wanted panes too. Great for image browsing. Hope this gets extended back into the tiles views too.

I also like the way that in tagging mode, when you assign a value everything auto refreshes. That is gonna really clear up confusion for new users who, before, would tick a box but still see the album in the "unassaigned" list.

[park]

I have a suggestion though, since panes dont auto clear themselves any more (good) it's easy to forget you've made a selection somewhere, especially if you scroll through that pane so that the selection moves off the screen (bad). So how about, after a set time interval, any list will auto-scroll back to the selection. That way, if you go away and come back later and you can always see what you have filtered before.

Also, how about making the colour of the selection in each pane different. A little bit like the "Colouful Tabs" extension for firefox. Another idea, is perhaps have the selection colour very slowly (important so as not to be distracting) flashing. Perhaps pulsating would be a better term.

[park]

Ok. last post for a while. I promise. But how about making the "All" entry in the panes a bit larger than the rest, or making it so that it floats and doesnt scroll with the list. It kind of has added value now that it is manually required to reset a pane.

You could also have it so that to reset everything in one click, you just have to click on an empty part of any pane.

[lalittle]

That's not strictly true lalittle. You could just select the "all" of any particular pane to reset just it and continue refining your selections.

We're not talking about the same thing.  When I select an album, the artist and genre fields narrow to only a single artist and genre, and "All" is selected in these panes by default.  The only way to get the panes back to showing more is to "reset selection" or to scroll at the way to the top of the "album" pane and re-select "all" (which I assume is what you're referring to.)  Both of these actions are more difficult than the previous behavior of simply being able to select "all" in the genre or artist pane, which would reset this pane and the panes "under" it while leaving the panes above it the same. The 165 behavior ends up giving me what I would consider "confusing" results sometimes, and necessitates a reset to get back on track.

I can see the advantages of both approaches, but the bottom line is that there are advantages to BOTH approaches -- i.e. which one is best for any given user depends on their specific needs and preferences.  Making this an "option" seems like the best solution.

Larry

[datdude]

I really like this new view, but can see how it probably is only usefull for power users.

[JaredH]

Don't know that I would consider myself a power user, but maybe a mid-power user.

This whole double filtering thing still seems a bit much for me. Having to reset the view everytime I want to change Genres is just one more step in the process.

In all honesty, the only two things that have been changed in the past few weeks that have seemed to make things less intuitive is the "pane-ignoring search" and this "double filtering". Database navigation, in my opinion, was perfect barring these two things.

[jgreen]

IMO, this is how panes should work.  This allows you to shave and refine a search, really exploring your data interactively. 

As far as it being complex to reset, I just don't see it.  I always thought the tendency of panes to reset convulsively if I clicked on an upstream pane took a lot of getting used to. 

The really good news:  11.1.165  is mature enough to stick with if they take back the fully funtional panes!

(EDITED so I can get the version # right)  11.1.165 is a GREAT rev!

[Matt]

Having to reset the view everytime I want to change Genres is just one more step in the process.

You shouldn't have to.

Click "Audio".  Then pick different genres.  This works like it always has.

Pick a genre, then pick some artists, then pick a different genre.  This also works like it always has.

Basically, if you want to drill down, start at the left and work right.  The functionality will be unchanged if you use it this way.

[JaredH]

I see now!!! 

I'll just have to remember that jumping the first pane will result in a filtered selection.

I can get used to this. Im quite flexible you know.

[johnnyboy]

Great feature improvement.
I can now remove the redundant 5 View Schemes I have purely to give me the ability to sort in different orders.

In several view schemes I have the same field listed twice purely so I can apply this filter at different points. This is now going to help me totally cut down on the number of panes needed so well done.

I think this feature would be especially useful and powerful if it was setup as a VS option so when creating a new VS you could specify whether to have it filter both ways or not.

For images I'll use this 100% of the time.
For audio 60% of the time this will be great, another 40 it would be nice to have the other setup.


Great new feature!

[Jaguu]

Yes, it's a great feature! Please keep it and add it to the tile view as well as it used to be at some point.

I agree with Matt and johnnyboy that the decision of whether to have it on or off should be on a per view scheme basis. In some view schemes you may want it, in others you may not.

Talking about view schemes I think they need some overhaul.

1) The "Customize current view" is basically also a feature that most of the time we use on a per view scheme basis and could be integrated there. You define a view scheme and also set the fields you want to be displayed in the files section.

2) Also the Tag Info display in Action Window>File properties is something that I would preferably set on a per view scheme basis. In an audio view scheme I only want to see audio related fields, in image view schemes I only want to see image related fields and not the whole bunch of fields. (This is a very, very long standing request, as it was brought forward by many users in the days of MC9 development.)

3) Now that we can define individual view schemes at the root level and have as many as we want, it would be nice to be able to have a quick launch icon on the top right like the 3 standard icons (audio, image, video), so that we can quickly select the different view schemes, even if the tree on the left is hidden.

[enervation]

I can't figure out how to do this...

I have a VS which is Genre/Album Artist/Album.

If I pick 'Metallica' under album artist, then a few different genres appear in the genre list (as they should). It would be nice then to be able to use those genres as the new top level filter, so if I select them, and then click 'All' in the 'Album Artist' column, it should only display artists listed under those genres. What actually happens is that all the genres appear in the genre column, with the selected genres still selected, but it doesn't actually apply this genre filtering to the other columns.

Hopefully this screenshot should kinda explain it - the genres are selected, but it's not actually filtering based on those selections.

[dcwebman]

I like it! I have never gotten Panes to work like I thought it should work and now it does. My vote is to keep it.

[Matt]

I can't figure out how to do this...

I have a VS which is Genre/Album Artist/Album.

If I pick 'Metallica' under album artist, then a few different genres appear in the genre list (as they should). It would be nice then to be able to use those genres as the new top level filter, so if I select them, and then click 'All' in the 'Album Artist' column, it should only display artists listed under those genres. What actually happens is that all the genres appear in the genre column, with the selected genres still selected, but it doesn't actually apply this genre filtering to the other columns.

Hopefully this screenshot should kinda explain it - the genres are selected, but it's not actually filtering based on those selections.

Thanks for the detailed explanation.  This will be changed next build.

[Listener]

I haven't used the new feature yet.  (I just upgraded in MC 11 and got 11.1.161 which stills works in the old left to right way.) but I spent a couple of weeks on a proposal to add similar flexible browsing features to a different player (Slimserver/Squeezebox.)  I think the new scheme provides additionality functionality to the MC 11 UI.

- The old scheme where clicking on a pane reset the panes to its right.  This functionality provided a way for a user to define his preferred browse order when he created or edited a view scheme. 

- The new scheme provides flexible browsing to handle an unplanned need to browse in an order different from the left-to-right order defined in the view scheme.  This adds functionality to the UI.  As johhnyboy pointed out in an earlier message, with the old panel behavior, you would need to create different view schemes just to get different browse orders.  (Or modify the view scheme for every ad-hoc need to browser in a different order.)

I think the new scheme is a plus for MC 11.

Bill

[MrHaugen]

I think dual direction sounds like a good thing. But it CAN be a bit much reset button clicking if you use it the wrong way. And in other ways of using it, it might be a good improvement.

But why do we really have to choose? Would it be that big of a deal to choose the two different ways in options somewhere? Just add the possibility for both.
Yes, versatility is the word.