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[Jakester]

I bought a 60GB Video iPod to take the majority of my collection on the road with me.  I am using a recent version of MC - 11.1.178 - to sync with iPod and things are good.  I do not want iTunes loaded on my PC that serves as MC Server.  I did load iTunes on another PC to play around and I bought an .m4p song.

I transfered the .m4p to my MC Server PC and I downloaded the 3ivx filters.  When I try to play it I get an error dialog saying this computer is not authorized.  It says to use iTunes and my login/password to authorize this PC.  MC appears to still attempt to play it - the file position marker marches along, but the volume slider disappears - but no sound.  Is there anyway around this without loading iTunes on this PC?  I really would rather not do that - just from a purist standpoint.  I tried renaming the file .m4a and .mp4 but it didn't work.

Other threads have gone off the deep end explaining all the differences between the various standards.  I just want to know if I can buy a song via iTunes and transfer it to another PC running MC and play it, burn it, transfer it to iPod, etc. EASILY.  If not, I'll forget about iTunes store and look for a good legal .mp3 download site.

[Yaobing]

m4p files can only be played in Quicktime engine.  Not sure if you can get by with Quicktime alone without iTunes (I installed Quicktime together with iTunes).

[Jakester]

I installed iTunes and Quicktime a couple of months ago on my MC Server PC.  I uninstalled iTunes but left Quicktime.  I understand MC uses Quicktime for these formats so I left it installed.  And now I have the situation in my original post.

[Yaobing]

I think you probably will need iTunes to play m4p files. I will do some testing on Monday to be sure.

As you know, the 'p' in m4p means 'protected'. Only Apple software can play their own protected files.

[NickM]

You can just install QuickTime without iTunes...
Go to http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/standalone.html

Apple move this page around frequently, each time trying harder and harder to convince you that you really need to install iTunes as well as QuickTime.

nick

[glynor]

I tried renaming the file .m4a and .mp4 but it didn't work.

Other threads have gone off the deep end explaining all the differences between the various standards.  I just want to know if I can buy a song via iTunes and transfer it to another PC running MC and play it, burn it, transfer it to iPod, etc. EASILY.  If not, I'll forget about iTunes store and look for a good legal .mp3 download site.

Welcome to the wonderful world of DRM.  This is NOT a format incompatibility.  iTunes tracks are "protected" by Digital Restrictions Management software which is preventing you from playing it on your "non-conforming player application".  The "media industry" would have you believe that they need to do this to prevent piracy. But wait, all of those files are still available on P2P networks (often before the legitimate CDs are released), so how does keeping you from playing the file on MC stop piracy?  The truth of the matter is that they don't want you to be able to play those files using anything other than iTunes and an iPod not because of piracy, but because then you're "locked in".  They have dreams of re-selling the content to you over and over.  One copy for your car stereo, one for you home, one streamed to you at work, and one on your iPod.

Good luck finding your "good legal .mp3 download site" with major label content.  They don't exist.  They won't license them unless they have DRM (and they're trying to get DRM required by law).  That way they can continue to control the music industry (the artists no longer need the labels to distribute their music for them or help them create it, but they can control the DRM software).

It's assinine.

If you don't like it, join the EFF, and write your congress members.  If you want legitimate access to the files you've already paid for, you can use iTunes to burn it to a CD and then re-rip it (resulting in a generational loss) or Google for some tools (which exist but are banned by the DMCA as a "circumvention device") that will let you remove the crippling DRM from the file.  Keep in mind that if you live in the US (or in one of the many other countries that have also adopted DMCA-style laws) you will be breaking the law in order to listen to the file you paid for.

[Yaobing]

I uninstalled iTunes (leaving Quicktime installed). My m4p files still play in MC (using QT engine of course).

As a test you may try playing the files in Quicktime player.

Try reinstall Quicktime 7 (or reinstall iTunes with Quicktime, and then uninstall iTunes).

[wombat66]

Excuse my naivete, but what is the problem with leaving iTunes installed. Is there some sort of security issue?

[glynor]

I uninstalled iTunes (leaving Quicktime installed). My m4p files still play in MC (using QT engine of course).

As a test you may try playing the files in Quicktime player.

Try reinstall Quicktime 7 (or reinstall iTunes with Quicktime, and then uninstall iTunes).

I tested this too, using some M4P files I "borrowed" from a friend at work (actually, I borrowed his PC).  It worked fine.  However, you have to be authorized to play the files from the get-go.  In other words, they have to be able to play in iTunes before you uninstall it for it to work.  I also tried copying those files from his machine over to one of my machines at work (which has iTunes, QT7 Pro, and MC installed on it but was NOT authorized to play his "protected" files), and of course that didn't work.

All in all, I'd say too much of a hassle and I'd probably either get one of the de-protector apps I mentioned above (hymn... where would I find one?) or just burn/re-rip the tracks using iTunes and call it over.

[Yaobing]

I also tried copying those files from his machine over to one of my machines at work (which has iTunes, QT7 Pro, and MC installed on it but was NOT authorized to play his "protected" files), and of course that didn't work.

Of course! I overlooked this:

I transfered the .m4p to my MC Server PC

When you transfer a protected file to another PC, you must authorize the new PC to play it. That requires iTunes being installed on the new PC, and you entering your user ID and password to identify yourself. After that you can play the song in MC or Quicktime or iTunes.

The bottom line: you have to leave iTunes installed on the computer where you want to play m4p files, unless you do not plan to buy any new tracks, in which case you can authorize the PC to play existing tracks, and uninstall iTunes (but why bother uninstalling it if you just installed it).

[Jakester]

Thanks everyone.  I"ve been out on business travel and just saw all the replies.  I share the frustration over DRM.  My entire 10K song library has come from CDs that I own.  I would like to quit buying phyical media like that and go to downloading (convenience, and today very few 'albums' have more than one or two good songs).  But it looks like DRM might change my mind.

So say I load iTunes and "authorize" my MC Server PC then uninstall iTunes.  The Server PC is then only able to play re-existing songs?!  Any new songs I purchase from iTunes (using my office PC) and transfer to the Server PC will not play?  The "authorize" is per PC AND per song?  I would have thought that once a PC was "authorized" to play songs purchased by a given user (determined by iTunes ID and password) that all songs purchased by that user would play.  This is not the case?  What a mess.

So nobody has suggestions for a good legit .mp3 download site with good support by major labels?  I can see why that might not exist.  Thanks for the links glynor - I might take a look at those tools you mentioned! ...

[enervation]

Excuse my naivete, but what is the problem with leaving iTunes installed. Is there some sort of security issue?

It leaves all kind of rubbish on your computer - e.g. a program that syncs or whatever with your ipod is left running all the time - even if you don't own one and never have! This isn't a huge problem on it's own, but it's generally bad to leave things like that on, because they add up, and soon enough your computer will be crawling.

[Matt]

Yes, it's a sad trend that every media player feels the need to install system services that always run.  iTunes is a bad offender.  There are others.

JRiver takes the high-ground on this one -- nothing runs unless you tell it to.

[Yaobing]

So say I load iTunes and "authorize" my MC Server PC then uninstall iTunes.  The Server PC is then only able to play re-existing songs?!  Any new songs I purchase from iTunes (using my office PC) and transfer to the Server PC will not play?  The "authorize" is per PC AND per song?  I would have thought that once a PC was "authorized" to play songs purchased by a given user (determined by iTunes ID and password) that all songs purchased by that user would play.  This is not the case?  What a mess.

It turns out to be not that bad. After authorizing a computer with one track, I uninstalled iTunes, and copied a second track to the computer. It played.

However, I am still not 100% sure what would happen with future purchases because this second track was purchased in the same transaction as the first track.

[LonWar]

Yes, it's a sad trend that every media player feels the need to install system services that always run.  iTunes is a bad offender.  There are others.

JRiver takes the high-ground on this one -- nothing runs unless you tell it to.

And I REALLY do appreciate that. I am glad to see a copmpany offer services without jamming it down your throat.

[lukecro]

Yes, MC is the best, and it's a pain that programs like RealMedia and iTunes try so hard to make sure you have their software or else certain media types won't play -- luckily they politely leave things open just enough that with their quick footwork, JRiver's MC is able to still play those file types (so long as basic QuitTime and Real software is still installed).

Of course, with a little bit of work, you can go into your system start settings to make sure Quicktime/iTunes and Real don't boot up automatically, without any major drawbacks... that way you can keep the software on your system for when you need it, without allowing it to be so invasive. And then there are free programs like QuickTime Alternative and Real Alternative that let you play those file types without installing the true versions of Quick and Real -- although I don't know if they're legal or not (probably not) -- I've had great luck with those, and they seem to work fine with MC in most cases.

For legal music files that don't have proprietary software attached (real MP3s instead of mp4, etc.), there are good alternative sites out there, although you might not find every tune you want .... for indie music, classical, opera, comedy, and some jazz, etc., I almost always use eMusic, for instance, which gives you MP3s you can keep forever (this is a monthly subscription service). And then there's the Live Music Archive, which offers free MP3s for bands that authorize bootlegging of live concerts (there's a lot more available on the site than you'd think).

And then there are those grey areas, like the Russian MP3 sites (some seem trustworthy, some are not, but none of them are strictly legal to my knowledge), which claim to be paying proper royalties to the record companies, but are selling music so cheap that it's hard to believe. Combining eMusic, the Live Archives, and one Russian site (which has millions of tracks of mainstream pop, rock, and electro/dance), I'm usually able to find everything I could ever want. And those few times I can't, I buy the actual CD    ... Overall it's more convenient (better quality, tracks are well tagged and organized, you won't get arrested, etc.) than stealing music while you'll still be able to avoid DRM (and save money).

I've got a more specific rundown of all this (and much more, and a plug for JRiver's MC) here: http://celebritycola.blogspot.com/2005/03/cheap-music-for-masses.html

Actually, one of the most fun legal (and completely free, for now) music sites I've run into this year is Pandora.com -- you can't get MP3s off of it, because it streams the music, but it's a "smart" site that quickly learns what kind of music you like and tailors the stream (instantly) to those likes. I'd love to see MC incorporate Pandora some day -- so that we can stream Pandora's music through MC, and perhaps even have it integrated with the MC star-ranking system so that our own personal collections will shuffle in-between Pandora songs or something... I'm just thinking out loud now... but it would be cool. Accuradio and Last FM are similar but I hit some bumps using those (Last FM charges a fee; Accuradio didn't always work) ... Maybe MC can work with one of these services and I just don't know it yet.... Pandora recently partnered with the Squeezebox hardware maker, so they might be open to a partnership with a company like MC....

[Jakester]

Yea I've played with Pandora - I agree pretty cool.  Thanks for your free music blog lukecro - I'll have a look.

[Jakester]

Hymn looks so great, but I just figured out it won't work with iTunes v6 (not yet, and it's been going on since last October so who knows when/if this will change)