Topic: Anything Feel Slow (Read 9772 times)

Matt · « **on:** July 24, 2006, 05:57:29 pm »

In the history of Media Center's development, we've always done a lot of work to make MC fast and efficient.

With Media Center 12, we've improved on the already great performance of MC 11 in nearly every area. Media Center 12 starts faster, switches views faster, draws lists faster, does core database operations faster, etc.

Are there any remaining areas of the program that feel sluggish or areas where more background threading / dual-core optimizations would make sense?

Thanks for any ideas.

datdude · « **Reply #1 on:** July 24, 2006, 07:52:18 pm »

Interesting, when switching amongst view schemes under the main audio tree, it is very fast, but when clicking on the 'audio' view scheme, it can take more than 2 seconds to pull up, so that could be improved.

Searching by simply typing in characters, can take more than 3 seconds to pull up the selection. Typing in a single new character takes about the same time for the selection to change. Seems slow to me.

jgreen · « **Reply #2 on:** July 24, 2006, 08:13:03 pm »

Recent builds of v.12 go into a much deeper sleep than before. I'm running a fraction of my total library (5-10%), and yet the difference is noticable, IMO.

Overall, program seems quite zippy.

Marty3d · « **Reply #3 on:** July 25, 2006, 01:13:23 am »

Slow? I think several features using Library Server via internet is kind of slow. MC can get very unresponsive at times. These thing in particular:
1. Double-clicking on a playlist showing a tooltip mostly just selects the playlist. The you have to wait a couple of seconds before you can try again
2. Typing in panes to, for example, get the right artist, doesn't work properly. It seems that MC could use a bit more waiting time. Almost always, when I type in KENT for instance, MC moves on to the letter E in the list.

But, as I said in the beginning, these 1-5 seconds hangs are a bit disturbing. Perhaps a bit more caching and threading code could be placed here?

Oh, and the status (like buffering 10%...) when transferring should definitively be more active so that users don't think the program has killed itself. I only see it a couple of times per day.

Otherwise, I think like others here, that MC is getting only faster for each build...nice!

GHammer · « **Reply #4 on:** July 26, 2006, 11:32:21 am »

After playing audio minimized for 90 minutes or so, when I restore MC I can watch the panes paint onto the screen.

Otherwise, startup is very fast. I do not notice any hesitation when I type in a pane. I use the 'stock' views though.
I have noticed that the locating is not real accurate when typing more than one character in a pane. For example, in the tree I click on Audio, Artist/Album. I move the mouse into the list of tracks. Type nd and I get:
Unforgettable Nat King Cole, Natalie Cole Nat King Cole [Capitol]

Not what I wanted, but it was fast. No, it's not the first artist or song, or album starting with N.

jgreen · « **Reply #5 on:** July 26, 2006, 12:13:48 pm »

Just to reiterate what Ham said, the GUI paints on VERY slowly after inactivity (sleep).

Also, I would mention here that in the AW Playing Now, with a list of say 20-30 tracks, cursor navigation can outrun the insert icon by 5-7 tracks, meaning you're never sure where to drop a track you're dragging, under the cursor or under the icon.

Matt · « **Reply #6 on:** July 26, 2006, 12:23:52 pm »

After a minimze, Media Center does some very aggressive memory optimizations. It fully unloads any skinning assets, unloads most all of the database, and does several other cute tricks.

This makes MC have a very light footprint when minimized which is important if you do other things with your computer while playing music. For example, I often listen to music while gaming, so I consider this a great feature of MC.

The downside to this fancy system is that it means restoring from a minimized state requires more work than it would otherwise.

glynor · « **Reply #7 on:** July 26, 2006, 01:30:55 pm »

Quote from: Matt on July 26, 2006, 12:23:52 pm

This makes MC have a very light footprint when minimized which is important if you do other things with your computer while playing music. For example, I often listen to music while gaming, so I consider this a great feature of MC.

Me too. MC (and particularly MC12) is basically the only app that can handle being run in the background while my computer is running Call of Duty 2 or Farcry. Of course, nothing really can be running in the background when I play Oblivion, but oh well...

jgreen · « **Reply #8 on:** July 26, 2006, 01:39:32 pm »

I'm glad MC has a light footprint, also, Matt. But I think the recovery time has lengthened NOTICABLY from 11.1.x, as pertains to the GUI.

datdude · « **Reply #9 on:** July 26, 2006, 03:31:32 pm »

The program overall is very fast, even more so than MC 11.

I know this is off topic, but if you really want to speed up the program's usability, then please look at click #s when doing certain user tasks:

1) To do a search of songs with rating > 2 it takes 6 clicks, 1 keyboard stroke, and numerous mouse changes due to the smart lists wizard that pops up in the middle of the screen. There needs to be a way to simplify and streamline these basic search tasks.

2) View menu for each tile should auto open when hovered over, this would save many clicks and I think new users would realize there was a menu available there.

3) Clicking on a media tab, the tree does not open but only switches the library view, and thus takes 2 clicks to view the tree, which is one click too many.

4) If the tag window is open, and you click on the current songs display at the top, the tag option closes the tag window??? This should not happen. Rather the allready open tag window, should switch to the current songs tag.

5) There are too many nested features in the action window that take many clicks to get to, and it is a pain to have to re-open every time. This should be re-worked.

Matt · « **Reply #10 on:** July 26, 2006, 03:48:06 pm »

Quote from: datdude on July 26, 2006, 03:31:32 pm

2) View menu for each tile should auto open when hovered over, this would save many clicks and I think new users would realize there was a menu available there.

Use smaller view schemes or larger thumbs and you won't need a menu at all.

Quote

3) Clicking on a media tab, the tree does not open but only switches the library view, and thus takes 2 clicks to view the tree, which is one click too many.

We feel child view schemes aren't important enough to force a tree expand. I for one rarely use them since I configure the roots to be just how I like.

datdude · « **Reply #11 on:** July 26, 2006, 04:08:48 pm »

Quote from: Matt on July 26, 2006, 03:48:06 pm

Use smaller view schemes or larger thumbs and you won't need a menu at all.

We feel child view schemes aren't important enough to force a tree expand. I for one rarely use them since I configure the roots to be just how I like.

To take a perscpective on my browsing style, I rarely know what I am looking for until I get there, i.e. I don't think ahead, so anything that prevents me from continuing to browse (i.e starting over) or makes it longer to browse is bad.

So for example, I often click on many of the tile menus (which I actually like v.s. no menu and just links) due to the fact that I don't know which tile, or which field I want to drill down into. I may end up clicking on 10 different tiles until I find which one I want, and having to always click on the menu makes this tedious.

Just try to think about it in terms of does something, like even searching, which resets a browsing session (clicking through multiple tiles), cause the user to browse longer than needed. Just my perspecitive though.

jgreen · « **Reply #12 on:** July 26, 2006, 05:39:26 pm »

I also wanted to add that the speedy view switching is relly cool, and is a noticable improvement--thanks, and congrats! It is so nimble now that I have changed my browsing style--I no longer feel the need of split views, but just bounce back and forth using the tree and the tree headers, stuff I never did before.

KingSparta · « **Reply #13 on:** July 27, 2006, 06:44:53 am »

I Have always wondered why adding files to the Convert Encoder Is So Slow

If you select like 1000 files to re-encode MC take what seems forever to fill the file list.

also on that window there is two Buttons.

"Options" And "Change"

They Do The Same Thing.

Alex B · « **Reply #14 on:** July 29, 2006, 07:06:07 am »

I have found that the Replay Gain analysis is very slow.

I just tested the speed with 17 standard MP3 files (a two-disc album):

MC 12: 4 min 27 s
MC 11.1: 1 min 52 s
Foobar2000 v.092: 0 min 56 s

The PC is now more responsible during the analysis, but the speed drop is unacceptable.

I tried this with a Hyperthreaded P4. I kept each tested program uppermost and I didn't run anything else during the tests. Also, Otto had nothing new to do during the test.

Media Center Registered 12.0.44 -- C:\Soft\MC12\

Microsoft Windows XP Workstation 5.1 Service Pack 1 (Build 2600)
Intel Pentium 4 2781 MHz MMX / Memory: Total - 1048 MB, Free - 576 MB

Internet Explorer: 6.0.2800.1106 / ComCtl32.dll: 5.82.2800 / Shlwapi.dll: 6.0.2800 / Shell32.dll: 6.0.2800 / wnaspi32.dll: 4.71 (0002) , ASPI for Win32 DLL, Copyright © 1989-2002 Adaptec, Inc. / Aspi32.sys: 4.71 (0002)

Ripping / Drive F: Mode:Normal Type:Auto Speed:Max
Drive G: Mode:Normal Type:Auto Speed:Max
Drive H: Mode:Normal Type:Auto Speed:Max
Digital playback: Yes / Use YADB: Yes / Get cover art: No / Calc replay gain: Yes / Copy volume: 32767
Eject after ripping: Yes / Play sound after ripping: No

Burning / Drive F: TSSTcorp CD/DVDW SH-W162C Addr: 0:1:0 Speed:4 MaxSpeed:4 BurnProof:Yes
Drive H: HL-DT-ST RW/DVD GCC-4480B Addr: 1:1:0 Speed:48 MaxSpeed:48 BurnProof:Yes
Test mode: No / Eject after writing: Yes / Direct decoding: Yes / Write CD-Text: Yes
Use playback settings: No /

JimH · « **Reply #15 on:** July 29, 2006, 07:17:10 am »

We have another speed problem we're chasing that could be related.

Alex B · « **Reply #16 on:** July 29, 2006, 07:23:17 am »

Also, try to find out how the foobar developer achieved this speed:

datdude · « **Reply #17 on:** July 29, 2006, 11:56:30 pm »

Matt,

I am attempting to burn a DVD data backup session of over 8000 audio files. In dropping all the files into the action window, MC chokes even after waiting like a half hour, and I have to shut it down manually.

I would like to be able to continually burn all the data without having to guess how much to put on each DVD, all in one session.

Would this be possible in MC 12?

marko · « **Reply #18 on:** July 30, 2006, 03:49:40 am »

If I dump a load of files into a watched folder while MC is closed, next time I start MC, it can take a good while before the interface appears onscreen. The more files, the longer the wait.

datdude · « **Reply #19 on:** July 30, 2006, 02:50:47 pm »

Editing the bios field in the AW Tag info, can take several seconds to open up.

If the bios field is open to edit, it is almost IMPOSSIBLE to browse and multiple highlite songs in the library, very slow.

hit_ny · « **Reply #20 on:** July 31, 2006, 07:55:27 am »

Quote from: Alex B on July 29, 2006, 07:23:17 am

Also, try to find out how the foobar developer achieved this speed:

No BPM + Intensity calculations

..also network latency in getting to that guy tapping his feet in MN

glynor · « **Reply #21 on:** July 31, 2006, 10:29:15 am »

Quote from: marko on July 30, 2006, 03:49:40 am

If I dump a load of files into a watched folder while MC is closed, next time I start MC, it can take a good while before the interface appears onscreen. The more files, the longer the wait.

I've seen this too with Otto enabled. With a truely absurd number of files, the wait can be spectacular. At first, I was certain that MC was just not launching and I kept killing the process and re-launching.

Eventually I just decided to wait (and sure enough, MC appeared a good bathroom break and trip to the fridge later).

Deivit · « **Reply #22 on:** July 31, 2006, 12:26:57 pm »

Quote from: glynor on July 31, 2006, 10:29:15 am

I've seen this too with Otto enabled. With a truely absurd number of files, the wait can be spectacular. At first, I was certain that MC was just not launching and I kept killing the process and re-launching.

Eventually I just decided to wait (and sure enough, MC appeared a good bathroom break and trip to the fridge later).

This sounds very familiar and seems to be related to my "I think I killed Otto" thread. Perhaps I never let it enough time to see MC appearing, but once I let it frozen for almost 1 hour.

marko · « **Reply #23 on:** July 31, 2006, 01:12:07 pm »

I'm willing to bet that unticking the "Build missing thumbnails" option speeds things up no end...

I'll try and squeeze it into the testing this evening.

marko · « **Reply #24 on:** July 31, 2006, 01:49:05 pm »

view schemes that filter in both directions are noticeably much slower to load up

Matt · « **Reply #25 on:** July 31, 2006, 03:52:40 pm »

Just a heads up that the audio analysis slowdown was due to the MP3 decoder using debug code.

This will be changed next build of MC 12, and it'll speed right up.

Matt · « **Reply #26 on:** July 31, 2006, 03:54:06 pm »

Quote from: Deivit on July 31, 2006, 12:26:57 pm

This sounds very familiar and seems to be related to my "I think I killed Otto" thread. Perhaps I never let it enough time to see MC appearing, but once I let it frozen for almost 1 hour.

Please try this with newer builds. Otto isn't even brought to life until the app has been running a bit.

Doof · « **Reply #27 on:** August 01, 2006, 12:07:40 pm »

Quote from: hit_ny on July 31, 2006, 07:55:27 am

No BPM + Intensity calculations

..also network latency in getting to that guy tapping his feet in MN

What would be nice is if we could tell MC not to bother with BPM or Intensity. I NEVER use those. The only reason I have MC analyze audio is for the Replay Gain.

Actually, what would be really nice is if we could configure MC to analyze RG in the background as part of Otto's job description.

Alex B · « **Reply #28 on:** August 01, 2006, 12:33:00 pm »

I think most of the time is spent with decoding. Amongst other factors, intensity is used in the actual replay gain calculation.

BPM is a nice by-product and I guess that BPM calculation doesn't use a lot of resources (perhaps just a pair of new shoes for the tap guy once in a while).

bennyd · « **Reply #29 on:** August 01, 2006, 04:36:42 pm »

When the Tag action pane is open, navigating MC is much slower

datdude · « **Reply #30 on:** August 02, 2006, 12:06:59 am »

view schemes are pretty snappy now.

If a view scheme pane contains a playlist group ith lots of play lists in that pane,, the view scheme will not come up as fast.

Mr ChriZ · « **Reply #31 on:** August 08, 2006, 05:00:59 pm »

Earlier I opened up WMP11.
Until recently i've not had much to play with in
WMP since it can't find my APE collection.
However about 50% of my APE collection is now converted
to MP3, and i was almost suprised to find WMP find
the MP3 files, cover art and all and build a thumbnail view.

It's not a completly fair comparison since it is only
50% of my collection.

However the scrolling of thumbnails in WMP11 was smooth as a baby's bottom.
Theres been numerous improvements on this in MC,
but on my machine it's still along long way off being smooth.

Media Center seems to cache the thumbnails once you've
scrolled over them a few times, which improves things,
but the first time you scroll over them after opening
MC it's a bit gravelly....

My machine is not the fastest thing around, but nor
is my collection very large by most peoples standards.

datdude · « **Reply #32 on:** August 09, 2006, 01:09:24 am »

View schemes with long field view items such as bios or reviews in them, can take a long time to pull up and when making selections in the panes themselves. Very slow.

INTERACT FORUM

Author Topic: Anything Feel Slow (Read 9772 times)