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[raym]

Hi guys.

A couple of suggestions if I may:-

1: If space is going to play and therefore add an item to Playing now, may I suggest it ONLY adds the selected item. Here's why...

As adressed numerous times by many people, one of the most tedious aspects of TV is the process of building a playlist, ie, adding individual files to Playing Now.  As it stands right now, if I spend the time drilling down to specific songs from specific albums to include in my playlist, I still need the Context menu to add selected items because it's the only way to do this without bloating my playlist with songs I dont want to hear - does this make sense??? Why is this like this? If I want to play the entire album I'll hit play at the album level. Add a "Clear Playlist" button to Playing Now and hey presto! You have all the control you could ever ask for. Surely this makes sense to more than just myself 

2: I don't like the idea of needing another button on my remote to bring up the context menu. Maybe I'm the minority on that one?

3: "Play" should be Ctrl-P. Why is it space? This is painful - yet another button to map to my remote and it's confusing - where else in MC does space = play?!

Cheers.


 

[raym]

I'm sorry to say, but at this early stage, I prefer the navigation the way it was.... 

It's just not as intuitive. Consider a standard remote control layout with the enter key surrounded by the arrow keys. To have to "reach" for another key on my remote to Add an item is a pain. I have already hit enter by mistake numerous times on an incorrect item which in turn blows away my current playing now list with songs I didn't even want to hear!!

[Matt]

3: "Play" should be Ctrl-P. Why is it space? This is painful - yet another button to map to my remote and it's confusing - where else in MC does space = play?!

Ctrl+P does play from a stopped state.  To start fresh, tap stop then play.

[raym]

Thanks Matt but did you get my point(s) about PLAY just adding the selected item to Playing Now? Similar to how the equivilent double click option works in Standard view. Can you understand how given the way it is, building a playlist in TV is difficult even if you can avoid making any mistakes!

[Doof]

FWIW, I completely agree. I never understood why, when I drilled down to a specific song, opened the context menu and chose Play, why MC would play it, but also add every other file showing to Playing Now at the same time. It seems really counter-intuitive to get to that level, and then actually Select that file, then Play Selected. If I choose Play on an album, I don't get every other album at that level added to Playing Now, so why does it do this at the file level?

[JimH]

Why don't you see if you can agree on exactly how this should work.  If everyone agrees and it doesn't cause other problems, we can probably implement it.

Step by step, what should happen?

[raym]

Why don't you see if you can agree on exactly how this should work.  If everyone agrees and it doesn't cause other problems, we can probably implement it.

Step by step, what should happen?

Excellent. Ok, here's how I see it:-

1. Enter = open context menu (as it was). Existing options remain please. The exisitng Right/Left navigation option is fantastic and makes navigation fast enough.

2. Play (if nothing is playing) = Adds currently selected item ONLY* to Playing Now and plays it. Also clears any previous Playing Now content in the process. Note: I'd prefer the automatic clearing to be configurable as I like to control this myself (MCx.exe /Clear) but I assume more options are going to be frowned upon.

3. Play (if something is playing) = Adds currently selected item ONLY* to the end of Playing Now without removing existing content. This should not disrupt currently playing material. This is therefore a way to add or queue content WITHOUT needing the Context Menu.

*PLAY should only play the currently selected item. If I'm on an album, it adds the whole album to Playing now. If I'm on a song, it only adds that single song to Playing Now. EDIT: Another example of this is selecting PLAY on a playlist name should add the entire playlist to Playing Now while drilling further down and opting to play a single item within that playlist should only add that single item.

[rpalmer68]

Excellent. Ok, here's how I see it:-

1. Enter = open context menu (as it was). Existing options remain please. The exisitng Right/Left navigation option is fantastic and makes navigation fast enough.

2. Play (if nothing is playing) = Adds currently selected item ONLY* to Playing Now and plays it. Also clears any previous Playing Now content in the process. Note: I'd prefer the automatic clearing to be configurable as I like to control this myself (MCx.exe /Clear) but I assume more options are going to be frowned upon.

3. Play (if something is playing) = Adds currently selected item to the end of Playing Now without removing existing content. This should not disrupt currently playing material. This is therefore a way to add or queue content WITHOUT needing the Context Menu.

*PLAY should only play the currently selected item. If I'm on an album, it adds the whole album to Playing now. If I'm on a song, it only adds that single song to Playing Now.

This would be my preferred setup too.  We should be able to do everything with the arrows and enter, as this makes it simple for end users (read wife/kids) to understand.

Could I request a couple of extra items to the drop down menu?

1) The selection to Delete files. (this should be an option that is enabled/disabled in the theater View options menu)

2) A selection to "Locate Album", often I browse by say artist or composer, but then want to locate the album that a selected track is part of. I can do it in the main MC interface, but would really like to be able to do it from Theater View.

And lastly (well for this post anyway!) the ability to jump to Playing Now or Full Screen based on the file type.  Once again this is an option in the main i/f but not in Theater View.

Cheers
Richard 

[glynor]

FWIW, I completely agree. I never understood why, when I drilled down to a specific song, opened the context menu and chose Play, why MC would play it, but also add every other file showing to Playing Now at the same time. It seems really counter-intuitive to get to that level, and then actually Select that file, then Play Selected. If I choose Play on an album, I don't get every other album at that level added to Playing Now, so why does it do this at the file level?

I may not be completely understanding (I'm a bit groggy this morning)... However, I certainly do like it that MC's Theater View adds the entire list of "songs" to Playing Now when you navigate and say Play on a track.  This is for 2 important reasons:

1) It follows my expectations, since I have Options --> General --> Double Click set to Replace Playing Now (all) so that behavior matches (again, unless something's changed a LOT with Theater View).

2) This behavior is very desirable for watching videos.  Many movies get broken up into multiple parts (for storage on disc), and TV Series are ALWAYS broken up into individual episodes.  I tend to use Theater View almost exclusively for Video (and stick to Standard View for Audio except for just selecting a Playlist and hitting "Play").  I need to be able to click Play on a TV Show Episode (or first half of a movie) and have MC automatically add the next episode (and the one after that) to the playlist.  Same goes for movies, I really do want to see that second half.  Adding them manually isn't really an option.  Sometimes I like to have TV Show marathons (watch the whole season of Entourage in a couple of days or something like that).... It's nice that the next one just "plays" after the previous one ends.

If this is changed at all, I think it should just follow (it doesn't already?) the behavior of the above-mentioned Options --> General --> Double-Click setting.  That would keep it consistent, and let people choose how they want it to work!

[Doof]

You can select the item above the track and get all of the tracks, though.

In your example, when you want to watch an entire season, rather than drill down into the season to get to the episodes, just open the menu on the season and hit play there. You can already do what you want, but those of us who want an easy way just play one file don't have that.

And I actually like how navigation is set up in MC12 with the exception of this one thing. I don't think I'd like having my Playing Now get wiped out after I'd stopped playback for a minute, then came back and hit play and whoops! I was highlighting an item at the time.  With that kind of method, I'd have to make sure I was always at the root menu or else I'd never people to stop playback for a minute and then resumed it later.

[raym]

In your example, when you want to watch an entire season, rather than drill down into the season to get to the episodes, just open the menu on the season and hit play there. You can already do what you want, but those of us who want an easy way just play one file don't have that.

Exactly! This is a must for building on-the-fly playlists.

1) It follows my expectations, since I have Options --> General --> Double Click set to Replace Playing Now (all) so that behavior matches (again, unless something's changed a LOT with Theater View).

These options don't apply in TV. If they did - problem solved!!!!

This would be my preferred setup too.  We should be able to do everything with the arrows and enter, as this makes it simple for end users (read wife/kids) to understand.

I couldn't agree more. Bring back Enter = Context menu!!!! Click enter by mistake and BANG! oops.... there goes your playlist!!! Just not intuitive at all.

[glynor]

You can select the item above the track and get all of the tracks, though.

In your example, when you want to watch an entire season, rather than drill down into the season to get to the episodes, just open the menu on the season and hit play there.

That assumes I always want to start playing with the first episode of the season, or the first movie in the list.  That never happens.  I generally want to play episode 06 from season 3 first (because three days ago I watched episode 05).  Then when it's done, it should continue on and play episode 07, then 08, and so on and so forth.  Eventually either I or my wife says "We watch way too much TV" and we turn it off and come back again another day and start up where we left off.

Also, many of my other view schemes (movies for example) have hundreds of movies in them.  Your method would force me to next track through the entire list to find the one I want, or to manually select (one at a time, pausing playback each time) each part of the video clip.  The way it is, I just page up/down through the list and choose the first "piece" of whatever movie I want to play, and choose Play.  It plays.  When that piece is over (assuming I remembered to turn off shuffle) it plays the next one.  So on and so forth. 

The change you propose (with no other option) would essentially make using Theater View for video completely useless.

I don't understand why you would want to use the Theater View interface to build on the fly playlists frankly.  Standard view excels at that, and (I guess you might not) but I have a big enough TV and good enough eyes that (combined with the Magnifier tool) I can use the Standard View on my TV for that purpose.

Either way... I think if it's changed at all, it needs to either 1) have it's own Options --> General --> Double Click setting, or 2) just use the existing Options --> General --> Double Click setting.  Just changing it to make "Play" not "Play" isn't really cool.  The method everywhere else in mc is that Play replaces the Playing Now list and Add adds to it.

I guess I also fail to see why bringing up the menu by hitting the Menu key is that difficult.  I think the new method of Enter == Enter/Play is far more intuitive for almost all uses of Theater View other than building on-the-fly playlists.  To me, Theater View just plain isn't good at that anyway...

Sorry to be a pain to you guys, but I really like the changes to Theater View.  It actually made it perfect for me, and far more intuitive.  I'm actually quite glad I saw this thread, as I would have screamed if it had just changed...

[Doof]

The change you propose (with no other option) would essentially make using Theater View for video completely useless.

You can't just go to Playing Now and manually choose where to start from there?

I don't understand why you would want to use the Theater View interface to build on the fly playlists frankly.  Standard view excels at that, and (I guess you might not) but I have a big enough TV and good enough eyes that (combined with the Magnifier tool) I can use the Standard View on my TV for that purpose.

If I wanted to use Standard View to navigate my library out in the living room, I wouldn't have spent so much time getting it all to work in Theater View with a remote. Theater View behaves a certain way right up until you get to the file level, and then it switches. It doesn't make any sense.

Either way... I think if it's changed at all, it needs to either 1) have it's own Options --> General --> Double Click setting, or 2) just use the existing Options --> General --> Double Click setting.  Just changing it to make "Play" not "Play" isn't really cool.  The method everywhere else in mc is that Play replaces the Playing Now list and Add adds to it.

Yeah, but if I right click on a file in Standard View and choose Play, MC plays that file and that's it. It doesn't play that file and every file around it. Theater View breaks this convention. If I open the menu on a file in Theater View and choose "Add", MC adds that one file. But if I choose "Play", then it plays that file and every other file in that list. It doesn't make any sense at all, and it's really confusing for people to figure out who haven't spent as much time with it as we have.

I guess I also fail to see why bringing up the menu by hitting the Menu key is that difficult.  I think the new method of Enter == Enter/Play is far more intuitive for almost all uses of Theater View other than building on-the-fly playlists.  To me, Theater View just plain isn't good at that anyway...

Sorry to be a pain to you guys, but I really like the changes to Theater View.  It actually made it perfect for me, and far more intuitive.  I'm actually quite glad I saw this thread, as I would have screamed if it had just changed...

Well, like I said above, I really don't care about the changes in this area. I just always hated how I couldn't play just one stupid file without having to jump through 6 different hoops.

[rpalmer68]

My main issue with the new navigation is that you now have to explain to somebody that they have to press the menu key when they have an album/video selected to play that album/video or that they have to select the album/video and then press "play".

With the old way all they had to know was use the arrows to drill down or go back and press <enter> when you want want to do something.

For me it's easy as I understand what's happening, but for people that come and visit that don't understand the system, then it seems a bit complicated to them.

I don't build up a playlists from TV, I just tend to select an existing one or just play an album, so this side of things doesn't really affect me, but I do see where pressing <enter> on a file would be frustration if you were trying to do this in the new navigation.

Maybe an option in the Theater View Options page would cover both potential uses?
Theater Views <Enter> key Action;
1: Drill down/Double-click (set action under Options --> General --> Double Click)
2: Open Context Menu

Richard

[raym]

Oh dear.... I have certainly opened up a can of worms....

I think what can be deduced from all this discussion is the following:- There is simply not enough customization on offer for TV. The "one option suits all" strategy is not working (and probably never will). While people like glynor like it, at least 2 others here don't. I actually don't think there was anything all that wrong with the navigation in TV to begin with and as it is, it's taken a huge step backwards.

Yes, I build many playlists on the fly in TV quite often. Why wouldn't you? At least the old way enabled me to do this intuitively and for the most part, adhered to most people's expectations.

I agree with Richard above. This thread was originally about the new TV navigation and I think as it stands today, the new nav changes have made the whole thing less intuitive especially for new users.

Failing more options for Theater View, I think my proposal (below) on how the navigation should happen would suit most people as well as cause the least amount of headache to both new and existing users of Theater View.

1. Enter = open context menu (as it was). Existing options remain please. The exisitng Right/Left navigation option is fantastic and makes navigation fast enough.

2. Play (if nothing is playing) = Adds currently selected item ONLY* to Playing Now and plays it. Also clears any previous Playing Now content in the process. Note: I'd prefer the automatic clearing to be configurable as I like to control this myself (MCx.exe /Clear) but I assume more options are going to be frowned upon.

3. Play (if something is playing) = Adds currently selected item ONLY* to the end of Playing Now without removing existing content. This should not disrupt currently playing material. This is therefore a way to add or queue content WITHOUT needing the Context Menu.

*PLAY should only play the currently selected item. If I'm on an album, it adds the whole album to Playing now. If I'm on a song, it only adds that single song to Playing Now. EDIT: Another example of this is selecting PLAY on a playlist name should add the entire playlist to Playing Now while drilling further down and opting to play a single item within that playlist should only add that single item.

[glynor]

Yeah, but if I right click on a file in Standard View and choose Play, MC plays that file and that's it. It doesn't play that file and every file around it. Theater View breaks this convention. If I open the menu on a file in Theater View and choose "Add", MC adds that one file. But if I choose "Play", then it plays that file and every other file in that list. It doesn't make any sense at all, and it's really confusing for people to figure out who haven't spent as much time with it as we have.

Right, but if you double click or hit enter on a song, it does add the entire list when in standard view.  At least the default configuration of MC does.  Standard View works exactly like Theater View using the default Options --> General --> Double Click settings.  You may have changed yours, but the default is Replace Playing Now (all).  I wouldn't disagree at all if you were just asking that choosing "Play" from the Menu list in Theater View would only add one song.  Enter though should be treated as a double click.

Typically, everywhere else in Windows, Enter does the same thing as a Double Click.  I think most people would feel just the opposite.  I think it would be confusing to have it the other way...

I would agree with, and I think it would solve our disagreement if MC just honored the Options --> General --> Double Click setting when in Theater View.  Reasonable people can disagree on the way things should work.

Oh and...

You can't just go to Playing Now and manually choose where to start from there?

No.  I'd rather you just use Standard View to build your lists.      

(You have to admit, that would be a fairly rediculous workaround, when the current way just works -- and is the way it's worked all along.)

I agree with Richard above. This thread was originally about the new TV navigation and I think as it stands today, the new nav changes have made the whole thing less intuitive especially for new users.

I also don't understand how the old way was any different....

Selecting Play in Theater View the old way worked exactly as Enter does now.  The only change was that Enter now does the Play action, and the Menu key brings up the menu (to get what you want, you'd have to have used Add in Theater View with MC11).  I think this "new" way makes more sense, as it works the same way in Standard View (enter is treated as a double click, and the menu key or right click brings up the menu).

The difference is, I guess, raym and doof don't have a right-click/menu key assigned on their remotes.  I do, so I don't care (and I like it better this way because it's far fewer "clicks" to get where I want).

I certainly (and quite stongly) think that having double-click/enter do one thing in Standard View, and another thing entirely in Theater View, would be more confusing to new users, not less.  It would help users build playlists, but that's about it.  I think building a playlist on the fly is the "more advanced use." Simply navigating to an album, selecting the song you want to hear, hitting enter to play it, and expecting that when the song ends, the next one will start (assuming shuffle isn't turned on) is normal.  That's the way every computer music player app I've ever used in my life (including iTunes, WiMP, and MC) works.  You certainly wouldn't expect the music to stop, or to hear the same song over again....

The solution is simple.  Just have it obey the double click settings (or give it it's own -- though I know they hate adding new options).  Then you can have it do what you want, and I can have it do what I want.

[Doof]

Right, but if you double click or hit enter on a song, it does add the entire list when in standard view.  At least the default configuration of MC does.  Standard View works exactly like Theater View using the default Options --> General --> Double Click settings.  You may have changed yours, but the default is Replace Playing Now (all).  I wouldn't disagree at all if you were just asking that choosing "Play" from the Menu list in Theater View would only add one song.  Enter though should be treated as a double click.

I think this explains our disagreement. I am talking about just choosing "Play" from the menu list. I didn't even know you could hit Enter on a song and make it play.

So yeah, I have no problems with hitting Enter honoring whatever settings are set for the Double Click settings. I'm specifically talking about opening the context menu, on a single file, and choosing Play. MC doesn't behave as I'd expect in this manner. Rather than play that one file, it adds that entire list to Playing Now. That's what's bugging me. Sounds like we can both get what we want.

Excellent. Ok, here's how I see it:-

1. Enter = open context menu (as it was). Existing options remain please. The exisitng Right/Left navigation option is fantastic and makes navigation fast enough.

2. Play (if nothing is playing) = Adds currently selected item ONLY* to Playing Now and plays it. Also clears any previous Playing Now content in the process. Note: I'd prefer the automatic clearing to be configurable as I like to control this myself (MCx.exe /Clear) but I assume more options are going to be frowned upon.

3. Play (if something is playing) = Adds currently selected item ONLY* to the end of Playing Now without removing existing content. This should not disrupt currently playing material. This is therefore a way to add or queue content WITHOUT needing the Context Menu.

*PLAY should only play the currently selected item. If I'm on an album, it adds the whole album to Playing now. If I'm on a song, it only adds that single song to Playing Now. EDIT: Another example of this is selecting PLAY on a playlist name should add the entire playlist to Playing Now while drilling further down and opting to play a single item within that playlist should only add that single item.

I still don't like this proposal, though. I want to be able to stop playback and restart it without wiping out Playing Now. In this proposal, that's not possible.

[raym]

I still don't like this proposal, though. I want to be able to stop playback and restart it without wiping out Playing Now. In this proposal, that's not possible.

Fair enough. Then my new proposal would be to leave the darn thing the way it was and introduce some simple THEATER VIEW options for (a) how songs are added to playing now (ie, obey standard view double click behaviour settings) and (b) what the enter key does (i. Open/Play an item OR ii. bring up the conntext menu).

How does this sound?

Jim wanted concise instructions for how this should be implemented. My belief is that introducing these minor user options is the only true workable solution which should satisfy everyone.

[Doof]

That would work for me.

Just out of curiosity, how does Windows MCE do it? Anybody know?

[glynor]

Sounds good to me too.  As long as I can set Enter to work as it does in the current builds of MC12, I'm happy!   

(Look at that, we agreed!)

Oh... And why would I use MCE when I have MC?   

[rpalmer68]

Gee that only took 20 posts to come to agreement, OK JimH we're ready for your next challenge!

Richard

[raym]

Why don't you see if you can agree on exactly how this should work.  If everyone agrees and it doesn't cause other problems, we can probably implement it.

Just to summarize the agreed proposal:-

1. Leave TV navigation as it was in v11.1.
2. Introduce 2 simple THEATER VIEW options for
          (a) how items to be played are added to Playing Now (ie, obey existing standard view double click behaviour settings) and
          (b) what the enter key does (i. Open/Play an item (as it is now) OR ii. bring up the context menu (as it was in v11)).

Thanks in advance.

[raym]

Just giving this a little *BUMP* to make sure Jim and Co are ok with what we've come up with 

Here's hoping it'll make a MC12 build very soon 

[rpalmer68]

It's been a while and still nothing has been changed in respect to this.

Thought I might just BUMP it up again so it's not forgotten with all the animated stuff now happening.

R

[raym]

It's been a while and still nothing has been changed in respect to this.

Thought I might just BUMP it up again so it's not forgotten with all the animated stuff now happening.

R

...and again........

[Uwe]

I know, i'm late in this discussion but i wasn't in the beta-tester group until the last days.
Concerning Theatre View: Please remember that this is the only interface for Touch-Screen Users. And a Touch-Screen only has a click and a double click. I do not want to burn CD within Theatre View, but i want to select music and i want to play it with the Touch-Screen. Not more, but not less.

Thanks Uwe

[Griff]

I know, i'm late in this discussion but i wasn't in the beta-tester group until the last days

Ditto

The Nav. change was a big surprise to me.

Jim and the J-team:

Thank you, thank you.

Now maybe I can get MC back on my HTPC.

Been waiting a long time for it.

Just out of curiosity, how does Windows MCE do it? Anybody know?

Dont know about MCE, but in another well known front end, everything is basically the same.

Except for "enter".

Enter is the same for drilling down, but on the last level (ex. where you select tracks to play) "enter" changes to "add to playing now"

This works out great. On a remote the enter button is surounded by the arrow buttons and the play button is separate. So no clearing of playing now, accidentally.

Well, I love the new Nav. and hope something can be done to satisfy everyone.

Thanks

[raym]

Dont know about MCE, but in another well known front end, everything is basically the same.

Except for "enter".

Enter is the same for drilling down, but on the last level (ex. where you select tracks to play) "enter" changes to "add to playing now"

This works out great. On a remote the enter button is surounded by the arrow buttons and the play button is separate. So no clearing of playing now, accidentally.

Thankyou Griff.

JRiver.... There you have it!!!!!!!!!! The crux of this entire thread. Surely this would not be so hard to do??? I would certainly settle for this but please make sure this logic extends to all media types - not just audio.

Thanks.
 

[Griff]

I would certainly settle for this but please make sure this logic extends to all media types - not just audio.

Ditto

[JimH]

Tonight's build, 12.0.080, cleans up the Theater View animations.  It isn't done, but it's very useable.

[glynor]

Tonight's build, 12.0.080, cleans up the Theater View animations.  It isn't done, but it's very useable.

I think he meant to post that comment over here: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=35680.0

But hey, no one's perfect.      

The other change though, is certainly relevant to this thread:

17. Changed: Once Theater View gets to a "Files" list, pressing Enter will show a menu instead of replacing Playing Now.

As I posted over in the build thread, I'm quite happy with this compromise.  I know some of you would rather have the "Add" to be on top of the menu, but I think it's perfect the way it is.  Can we all live with it?

[Uwe]

The other change though, is certainly relevant to this thread:

As I posted over in the build thread, I'm quite happy with this compromise.  I know some of you would rather have the "Add" to be on top of the menu, but I think it's perfect the way it is.  Can we all live with it?

The whole life is a compromise...
I can live with it, when this functionality is also added to "double-click" (because of the Touch-Screen)

Uwe

[lalittle]

Tonight's build, 12.0.080, cleans up the Theater View animations.  It isn't done, but it's very useable.

It's looking good.  My initial feedback is that the animation speed is a little slow when going from the main menu to the FIRST submenu -- i.e. it feels like it takes too long for the left hand menu items to land in their final positions.

The speed of navigating the subsequent menus, however (i.e. genres, artists, albums, etc.), is much better (the animation is quicker) and in my opinion this speed "feels right."  I think that the animation speed of the initial menu (the time it takes it to finish it's movent) should be the same as the subsequent ones.

Larry

[Alex B]

Please, include an option for switching the animated & 3D graphic off.

I have no problems with my HTPC, but I am planning to build a carputer with a small LCD screen from components that do not produce much heat. I have a lot of old PC components that I could use. The carputer is not going to be one of the fastests PCs, but probably I would like to use MC12 and Theater View with it.

[CDvd]

Alex :
A carputer running the actual T.V. would look cool... 
Won't it run in a 640x480x16 res?

I would like to use MC12 and Theater

you finally found T.V. usefull for something afterall 

[glynor]

Please, include an option for switching the animated & 3D graphic off.

Yes, please.  By my enthusiasm for the "new" animations I hope I didn't also somehow "retract" my previous feelings on the issue.... My HTPC happens to be pretty gutsy hardware-wise, but not everyone's is.

[rpalmer68]

I hate to say it, but I'm still not convinced on the navigation yet. (of course I may be the only one, in which case I guess I'll just have to live with it )

We have 2 arrows to navigate forward and back and also the Enter Key to go forward.

If I want to navigate down to an album and play the whole album I now have to press the Menu button on the album name to get the option to Play/Add. If I press Enter I end up at the track listing.

When I had visitors over with the old navigations everybody could find their way around quite quickly as it was just logical to use the arrows and Enter.  Now they end up at the track listing and then get confused about how to play the entire album as selecting Play just plays the one selected track.

I there any way we can get what this thread originally all agreed on?

Just to summarize the agreed proposal:-

1. Leave TV navigation as it was in v11.1.
2. Introduce 2 simple THEATER VIEW options for
          (a) how items to be played are added to Playing Now (ie, obey existing standard view double click behaviour settings) and
          (b) what the enter key does (i. Open/Play an item (as it is now) OR ii. bring up the context menu (as it was in v11)).

I'm happy with the Enter bringing up the menu automatically when it's down at the lowest level instead of (a) above, but I'd still like the option of having it bringing up the menu (and not go down a level) as well.

Anybody else still feel this?

Richard

[glynor]

If I want to navigate down to an album and play the whole album I now have to press the Menu button on the album name to get the option to Play/Add. If I press Enter I end up at the track listing.

You can also just hit "Play" (if you have a play button on your remote or keyboard) when you have the album selected.  If you don't have a remote or keyboard, well... I'd say for playing an entire album, that the one extra step of hitting menu is not that big of a hardship (since playing an entire album seems much more "specialty" than playing a single song or video file, and since it only applies if you don't use Theater View with a remote, which seems somewhat pointless to me anyway).

I guess I just rarely have other people want to select and play whole albums as well.  People who come by generally want to hear some specific song.

Again though, I rarely use Theater View for audio.  I'm almost exclusively a Theater View video user (I just find Standard View much better suited to my audio tasks in general -- especially re-ordering playing now, which I do regularly).

[raym]

I'm happy with the Enter bringing up the menu automatically when it's down at the lowest level instead of (a) above, but I'd still like the option of having it bringing up the menu (and not go down a level) as well.

I do agree with you Richard - it should be an option but (a) I don't think it's going to happen and (b) I'm reluctant to rock the boat any more on this topic. I think the current implementation is usuable at least (it was not before) and I'm concearned that any more mods are going to ruin this.

At this point in the game, I'm a little more worried about the slow performance of Theater View related to the background viz.

You can also just hit "Play" (if you have a play button on your remote or keyboard)

This is true and works quite well. I'm just curious though glynor... why are you so opposed to having ADD before PLAY on the context menu (as myself and others have requested) when you can achieve everything it sounds like you need by simply hitting play? For people like me who like to ADD material to Playing Now rather than REPLACE, it means an extra 3 button presses each time.

[glynor]

This is true and works quite well. I'm just curious though glynor... why are you so opposed to having ADD before PLAY on the context menu (as myself and others have requested) when you can achieve everything it sounds like you need by simply hitting play? For people like me who like to ADD material to Playing Now rather than REPLACE, it means an extra 3 button presses each time.

I'm not super-opposed to it, it just seems unintuitive to me.  Pretty much everywhere else in MC, "Play" (rather than "Add") is the "default" command.  That's the only reason.

Oh, and I don't count 3 extra button presses.  I count one extra (one down-arrow press) beyond what I have to do now if I don't use the Play button on the remote.  (Enter brings up the menu, and another Enter to play is 2.  Enter brings up the menu, arrow down, enter to Add is 3.)  While I personally know I can use the Play button, explaining that to my Wife or friends who just hit the "OK" button on the remote like it's a TiVO is a harder sell.  They wouldn't ever even WANT to use the ADD command, or understand why it might be useful.

Also, right now, because of performance concerns, I can't use the arrow keys on the pop-up Menus in Theater View at all with my remote.  When a menu is displayed, it takes 2-3 full seconds from when I hit the down arrow key on my remote before Theater View responds.  Obviously, that's not tenable.

[rpalmer68]

I do agree with you Richard - it should be an option but (a) I don't think it's going to happen and .....

Glad somebody agrees! We were asked what we'd like, so it's a bit pointless asking if it's then ignored. 

You can also just hit "Play" ... I'd say for playing an entire album, that the one extra step of hitting menu is not that big of a hardship (since playing an entire album seems much more "specialty" than playing a single song or video file, and since it only applies if you don't use Theater View with a remote, which seems somewhat pointless to me anyway).

Yes they can press menu (if they knew they had to), but as you said

While I personally know I can use the Play button, explaining that to my Wife or friends who just hit the "OK" button on the remote like it's a TiVO is a harder sell

....is my point entirely, it's not intuotive to use menu, when browsing with the arrows and Enter/OK.

Also, most people I know want to listen to an entire  album not just an individual track if they're listening to music, true it's different with Video, but I'm talking audio here.

So JRiver can we PLEASE have an option for Enter to bring up the context menu like it did in 1112 (where nobody I seem to recall was complained about the TV navigation)?

Cheers
Richard

[glynor]

Also, most people I know want to listen to an entire  album not just an individual track if they're listening to music, true it's different with Video, but I'm talking audio here.

We obviously know different people.   

I'm just about the only person I know that still likes to listen to whole albums regularly in a social setting.  All of my friends and cohorts like to pick one song and keep the rest "radio-station" style (random).  In fact, my wife actively complains if I try to listen to a whole album when we have guests over (it's boooooring, she says, variety is the spice of life and all that).

Maybe it's generational?

[glynor]

So JRiver can we PLEASE have an option for Enter to bring up the context menu like it did in 1112 (where nobody I seem to recall was complained about the TV navigation)??

Some people did (me for example).

[rpalmer68]

We obviously know different people.   

I would hope so

I'm just about the only person I know that still likes to listen to whole albums regularly in a social setting.  All of my friends and cohorts like to pick one song and keep the rest "radio-station" style (random).  In fact, my wife actively complains if I try to listen to a whole album when we have guests over (it's boooooring, she says, variety is the spice of life and all that).

Classical music is an example (and I have a lot of it), not much good getting one movement of a work, best to get the whole work!

I have a Classical Work Name Field in my View Scheme with the tracks under this.  So the work name gets treated like an album for me.

Anyway I guess we're in the hands of the developers... so we'll see what happens.

R

[glynor]

Classical music is an example (and I have a lot of it), not much good getting one movement of a work, best to get the whole work!

Agreed, but what is wrong with "opening" the "album" (or however you have them tagged) in Theater View and choosing Play on the first track?  Doesn't it then do the same exact thing as selecting the album and choosing Play?

Unless of course you want: to allow people who aren't familiar with how the system works to choose to play full albums, from within Theater View, but not have them hear the album immediately but instead wait for the current list to finish playing and then start to play their selection.  Is this the goal?  If so, I'd say that's a pretty far-out specialty requirement, but I'll grant it that that would be difficult to achieve with the current setup.

As I said above, I often have a reason to choose to play full albums myself.  It's just that most of my "visitors" in my home don't do this much... Generally, if they want to pick a song, it's because something that already just played reminded them of something they wanted to hear.  Usually, in fact, they just make me or my wife pick it for them (and we know how to use it properly).

Either way.... I think we all agreed that the current fix is better than no fix at all, but that adding an option to allow the Enter key to bring up the menu all the time to Options --> Theater View would be preferred.  So as you said... It's no longer up to us!

[rpalmer68]

Agreed, but what is wrong with "opening" the "album" (or however you have them tagged) in Theater View and choosing Play on the first track?  Doesn't it then do the same exact thing as selecting the album and choosing Play?

It does, but last time I did this MC(.80/.81) only played the one track not all the tracks. So I assumed (maybe wrongly) that I had to select Play at the "album" level to "Play All".

I've rolled back to V.78 due to issue with the animations and in this version it has the old navigation so I can't test it now.

I'll have to re-test to see if the play does in fact play the entier album from the track level, maybe I'm trying to fix something that isn't as "broken" as I thought and I just experienced a glitch last time I tried it.

R

[glynor]

It does, but last time I did this MC(.80/.81) only played the one track not all the tracks. So I assumed (maybe wrongly) that I had to select Play at the "album" level to "Play All".

It does, and you don't, so long as you choose "Play" and not "Add".  This is true for .81 (and was true for as many versions back as I can remember).  Choosing "Add" does not play all, as it shouldn't.  In fact, that's what started this whole thread!!

Hi guys.

A couple of suggestions if I may:-

1: If space is going to play and therefore add an item to Playing now, may I suggest it ONLY adds the selected item.

This happens regardless of the Options --> General --> Double-Click setting.

[lalittle]

glynor... why are you so opposed to having ADD before PLAY on the context menu (as myself and others have requested) when you can achieve everything it sounds like you need by simply hitting play?

I agree with glynor on this one, who said:

it just seems unintuitive to me.  Pretty much everywhere else in MC, "Play" (rather than "Add") is the "default" command.

The "first" action is intuitively "play" rather than "add," which is supported by the fact that the rest of MC behaves this way.  If Theater View broke this pattern, it would cause more confusion in my opinion.

Larry

[bbrip]

On top of the icon animation topic mentioned in the last post, I also dont like the fact that some of the navigation logic in theater view has changed from vs11 to vs12.  Example

It use dto be possible clicking the enter key (or Ok key on a remote) wherever you are in theatre view brosing your library and get the context menu to play the selected item / album / category, add to your playing now etc....   Now one only gets this optino after having reached the lowest hierarchy in browsing, ie the list of individual audio files (ape in my case) in a ny given category / album / artist.   I dont find this very logical and would love that we get the "old" navigation way back.

Also, in Vs11, being in Theatre View pressing "esc" got you into Full View, then "Esc" again got you into Normal View.  I find this more logical then the new scheme in Vs12, where pressing "esc" in Theater View gets you straight back into normal view.

Could these two topics be reverted back the way they've been before or any specific reason why things are handled differently now in VS12?

Thanks
BB

glynor kindly pointed me to this thread for my above request.  As i can see, I am not alone for my desire that the "old" way the ENTER key was treated (ie bringing up the context menu) should come back in MC12 !!

Is glynor the only one resisting this? Almost sounds like it 

BB

[raym]

glynor kindly pointed me to this thread for my above request.  As i can see, I am not alone for my desire that the "old" way the ENTER key was treated (ie bringing up the context menu) should come back in MC12 !!

Is glynor the only one resisting this? Almost sounds like it 

BB

Oh my GOD! I hope this thing isn't being ressurected   

The context menu can still be activated at any level. Use the Keyboard APPS (or menu) key.... and no, Glynor is NOT the only one who will be resisting any change to any of this!

As far as your question about switching between views, what are you trying to achieve? SHIFT+F11 will toggle between Theater and Display View.