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[raym]

Theater View no longer works on an older PC I have which has v11.1 running happily on it for music playback.  I get a blank/black screen with a DirectDraw error. Something along the lines: "Cannot create windowed mode". 

Other people may have trouble running Theater View on their older hardware also but what worries me more at the moment is on my main (modern) system, the background viz sends my CPU usage hovering b/w 30-40% with Theater View idle (not playing anything). This is a problem since low power and heat consumption is everything in the HTPC world.

Thanks.

[Matt]

but what worries me more at the moment is on my main (modern) system, the background viz sends my CPU usage hovering b/w 30-40% with Theater View idle (not playing anything). This is a problem since low power and heat consumption is everything in the HTPC world.

That's hard to believe.  Playing music while watching Theater View, I can't get my CPU usage above 0% at home. 

It takes a little CPU to load Theater View or navigate around, but it always sits at 0% if it's just sitting there.

How are you testing, and what hardware are you using?  Thanks.

[rpalmer68]

That's hard to believe.  Playing music while watching Theater View, I can't get my CPU usage above 0% at home. 

It takes a little CPU to load Theater View or navigate around, but it always sits at 0% if it's just sitting there.

How are you testing, and what hardware are you using?  Thanks.

For me when in theater View my PC sits around 12% (from task manager info) and then jumps to 20% from time to time, this is without anything playing just at the main menu.

Closing Theater View and just have the standard view, MC sits aroubd 0% - 1%.

******************
Media Center Registered 12.0.87 -- C:\Program Files\J River\Media Center 12\

Microsoft Windows XP  Workstation 5.1 Service Pack 2 (Build 2600)
Intel Pentium 4 3190 MHz MMX / Memory: Total - 1046 MB, Free - 690 MB

Internet Explorer: 6.0.2900.2180 / ComCtl32.dll: 5.82.2900 / Shlwapi.dll: 6.0.2900 / Shell32.dll: 6.0.2900 / wnaspi32.dll: N/A
Ripping /   Drive E:   Mode:Normal  Type:Auto  Speed:Max
  Digital playback: Yes /  Use YADB: Yes /  Get cover art: No /  Calc replay gain: Yes /  Copy volume: 32767
  Eject after ripping: Yes /  Play sound after ripping: No 

Burning /  No burners found.
  Test mode: No /  Eject after writing: Yes /  Direct decoding: No /  Write CD-Text: Yes
  Use playback settings: No /

Portable Device Info
  Removed devices:

NVIDIA 6200 128MB PCI-e video card.

Richard

[raym]

That's hard to believe.  Playing music while watching Theater View, I can't get my CPU usage above 0% at home. 

It takes a little CPU to load Theater View or navigate around, but it always sits at 0% if it's just sitting there.

How are you testing, and what hardware are you using?  Thanks.

0% ?? Not here I'm afraid.... Using xp's task manager to show cpu usage while at the Theater View's main menu (nothing playing). Definately b/w 30-40% cpu usage for me. System Info below.

Thanks.

Media Center 12.0.87 -- C:\Program Files\J River\Media Center 12\

Microsoft Windows XP  Workstation 5.1 Service Pack 2 (Build 2600)
Intel Pentium 4 2991 MHz MMX / Memory: Total - 514 MB, Free - 143 MB

Internet Explorer: 6.0.2900.2180 / ComCtl32.dll: 5.82.2900 / Shlwapi.dll: 6.0.2900 / Shell32.dll: 6.0.2900 / wnaspi32.dll: N/A
Ripping /   Drive G: LITE-ON DVDRW SOHW-1653S  Mode:Normal  Type:Auto  Speed:Max
  Digital playback: Yes /  Use YADB: Yes /  Get cover art: No /  Calc replay gain: Yes /  Copy volume: 32767
  Eject after ripping: Yes /  Play sound after ripping: No  

Burning /  Drive G: LITE-ON  DVDRW SOHW-1653S   Addr: 0:0:0  Speed:48  MaxSpeed:48  BurnProof:Yes
  Test mode: No /  Eject after writing: Yes /  Direct decoding: Yes /  Write CD-Text: Yes
  Use playback settings: No /

Portable Device Info
  Removed devices:

[rpalmer68]

0% ?? Not here I'm afraid.... Using xp's task manager to show cpu usage while at the Theater View's main menu (nothing playing). Definately b/w 30-40% cpu usage for me.

raym,

Are you using the onboard graphics controller? Your CPU isn't much slower than mine but the CPU utilisation is quite a bit higher!

Probably a dumb question, but is the "Media Cenetr 12.exe" taking 30/40% or total CPU is at 30/40%?

R

[rpalmer68]

I just tried Theater View on my main PC where I do all my ripping and tagging.

This PC is quite a bit slower with an older NVIDIA graphics card, but running the same version of NVIDIA drivers.

On this PC CPU sits at 3-5% on the main menu, but 30 - 40% if I drill down one level to say Audio.

My HTPC stays around 10-15% no matter what level I go in the tree.

Both PC's run at 0-1% when playing an audio track and just cover art is full screen.

JimH - Could you please break these last few messages off into a new thread so we can work through finding why Theater View is having CPU issues rather than linking it to a specific build?

System info below:

Media Center Registered 12.0.87 -- C:\Program Files\J River\Media Center 12\

Microsoft Windows XP  Workstation 5.1 Service Pack 2 (Build 2600)
Intel Pentium 4 1885 MHz MMX / Memory: Total - 785 MB, Free - 204 MB

Internet Explorer: 6.0.2900.2180 / ComCtl32.dll: 5.82.2900 / Shlwapi.dll: 6.0.2900 / Shell32.dll: 6.0.2900 / wnaspi32.dll: N/A
Ripping /   Drive F: HL-DT-STDVDRRW GSA-4166B  Mode:Normal  Type:Auto  Speed:Max
  Drive G:   Mode:Normal  Type:Auto  Speed:Max
  Digital playback: Yes /  Use YADB: Yes /  Get cover art: No /  Calc replay gain: Yes /  Copy volume: 32767
  Eject after ripping: Yes /  Play sound after ripping: No 

Burning /  Drive F: HL-DT-ST DVDRRW GSA-4166B   Addr: 1:0:0  Speed:48  MaxSpeed:48  BurnProof:Yes
  Drive G: PIONEER  DVD-RW  DVR-106D   Addr: 1:1:0  Speed:16  MaxSpeed:16  BurnProof:Yes
  Test mode: No /  Eject after writing: Yes /  Direct decoding: Yes /  Write CD-Text: Yes
  Use playback settings: Yes /

Portable Device Info
  Removed devices:

Cheers
Richard

[raym]

raym,

Are you using the onboard graphics controller? Your CPU isn't much slower than mine but the CPU utilisation is quite a bit higher!

Probably a dumb question, but is the "Media Cenetr 12.exe" taking 30/40% or total CPU is at 30/40%?

R

Yeah, this PC I'm on now which I've been doing most of my testing has an Intel based on-board video controller. I havn't made the transition to my HTPC yet. I will do this soon and compare.

When I say 30% I'm talking Media Center 12.exe.

[raym]

Any vizulization I use, even in standard view, consumes some CPU - naturally - but for some reason, the background viz in Theater View is worse. Maybe because it's always fullscreen or perhaps it's being generated differently?

In any case, I just want to state that I really like the look of Theater View's background viz. Just looking for a way to control how much valuable CPU it uses without needing another hardware upgrade!!   

[glynor]

I certainly wasn't seeing 0% at work today after MC had been running a while but it was staying around the 2-5% range and ran quite smoothly.

Haven't tested it at home yet.  Maybe tomorrow...

[raym]

On this PC CPU sits at 3-5% on the main menu, but 30 - 40% if I drill down one level to say Audio.

This is an interesting observation. I tested it and am seeing the same thing but with higher numbers  . 30-40% CPU useage while idle at the main menu but 40-50% useage while idle at the Audio level. It drops back down to 30-40% when I return to the main menu.

Both PC's run at 0-1% when playing an audio track and just cover art is full screen.

And this is an important point since the background viz is not running in this instance. I too get very low CPU usage when playing music in Display View (fullscreen) - b/w 2-4%.

[Zoom]

CPU usage is high for me too..

In thearter view it ranges from 20-30%

In Display view it ranges from 15-25%

And in normal mode 0-10%

And in regular or display view, whenever I roll over buttons or any "object" that could have tooltip, my CPU jumps to almost 70%!!!

No wonder I get skipping in some of my tracks.

(and this is Media Center 12.exe, in task manager)

Stats are:

Media Center 12.0.87 -- C:\Program Files\J River\Media Center 12\

Microsoft Windows XP  Workstation 5.1 Service Pack 2 (Build 2600)
Intel Unknown 1794 MHz MMX / Memory: Total - 1048 MB, Free - 492 MB

Internet Explorer: 6.0.2900.2180 / ComCtl32.dll: 5.82.2900 / Shlwapi.dll: 6.0.2900 / Shell32.dll: 6.0.2900 / wnaspi32.dll: N/A
Ripping /   Drive D:   Mode:Normal  Type:Auto  Speed:Max
  Digital playback: Yes /  Use YADB: Yes /  Get cover art: No /  Calc replay gain: Yes /  Copy volume: 32767
  Eject after ripping: Yes /  Play sound after ripping: No 

Burning /  Drive D: QSI      CDRW/DVD SBW-242   Addr: 1:0:0  Speed:24  MaxSpeed:24  BurnProof:Yes
  Test mode: No /  Eject after writing: Yes /  Direct decoding: Yes /  Write CD-Text: Yes
  Use playback settings: No /

Portable Device Info
  Removed devices:

*****

The "Unknown" chip is the centrino chip by intel (1.8 GHz)

I have an ATI Radeon, 128 MB video card

Let me know if I can provide anything else to help...

EDIT:  These were taken while playing an mp3 compressed at 192 kbps.

[marko]

for me, theatre view is taking 95% cpu in any view that contains the 3D background + the little cube in the top right corner.
It causes things to load rather slowly. display on 2nd monitor (widescreen TV) using 'desktop resolution' (800 x 600)

If I set the resolution to 640 x 480, cpu usage settles around the 58% mark.

[JimH]

for me, theatre view is taking 95% cpu in any view that contains the 3D background + the little cube in the top right corner.
It causes things to load rather slowly. display on 2nd monitor (widescreen TV) using 'desktop resolution' (800 x 600)

If I set the resolution to 640 x 480, cpu usage settles around the 58% mark.

What is your video card?

[CDvd]

theatre view taking 95% cpu in any view that contains the 3D background  .... display on 2nd monitor

I remenber having a serious acceleration problem when setting anything related to 3d on a second display with my nvidia graphic card (performances in that case are on par with a software renderer).  Does setting display screen in MC to the first display change something?

[marko]

What is your video card?

It's an nvidia geforce fx 5900XT, latest drivers.

I remenber having a serious acceleration problem when setting anything related to 3d on a second display with my nvidia graphic card (performances in that case are on par with a software renderer).  Does setting display screen in MC to the first display change something?

Changing to display 1 results in 0 - 2% cpu usage on the same screens.

[CDvd]

Marko, I don't think direct x acceleration is possible on the secondary display. To run anything that needs HW acceleration on your TV you have to switch it to the primary display.
I'm not aware of a solution to this problem.

[marko]

Thanks for the info CDvd.
I don't know how many others output to their TVs as the secondary display, but untill such time as I get a dedicated HTPC up and running, I think this means that I could well be in need of a way to disable the background eye-candy stuff....

[Uwe]

Marko, d'accord!

The moving pictures use performance some may not have for this feature in this environment.

Uwe

[glynor]

Marko, I don't think direct x acceleration is possible on the secondary display. To run anything that needs HW acceleration on your TV you have to switch it to the primary display.
I'm not aware of a solution to this problem.

I'm not sure that's true.  I regularly run 3D games (and difficult-to-run ones) on my TV display on my HTPC at home.  Until recently, it was set as the secondary display (I now have the TV as the only display on my HTPC), and the games worked fine.  I did have the displays "cloned" though, rather than extended.  This may make some difference.

I just tested on my work PC, which has an nVidia 7800 GTX video card and a 3.2GHz Pentium D processor.  On my primary display, Theater View never causes more than 5% CPU Usage (after it initially loads) even when navigating around.  On my Secondary Display, it pegs to about 50% CPU usage just sitting idle (I have a dual core processor though so I'd guess that's why it isn't closer to 100%).

I did try modifying the "Hardware Acceleration" setting in the nVidia control panel (under Manage 3D Settings in Advanced Mode) to all three choices: multiple display performance mode, single display performance mode, and compatibility performance mode.  None made any difference.

I'm going to test it on my ATI X1900XT card (which has a similar two-display side-by-side setup) at home this evening.  I don't have a dual core CPU in that machine.

[glynor]

Just tested it at home, and got basically the same results.

I'm seeing CPU usage ranges of 2-14% by Media Center 12.exe when in Theater View on my Primary Monitor, but the CPU pegs at 98% for that process when on my Secondary Monitor.

Also, Theater View on this machine is so slow as to be unusable when on the secondary monitor.  With the "mode" set to Text (rather than Thumbnails), the "second tier" on Theater View after choosing Audio from the "home" postion, took a full 3 minutes or so to appear.  The items "zoomed in" one at a time very slowly, after what seemed like an eternal delay.

Machine:

CPU: AMD Athlon 64 3200+ (Venice), 2 Ghz
Mainboard: ASUS A8R32 MVP (ATI RD580, S939)
RAM: 2 GB (200 MHz, dual channel)
GPU: ATI X1900XT (512 MB GDDR3, 621 MHz core)

One of these days I'm going to (cut you into... er, no) actually bother to optimize the performance of this machine, but still.... It's something of a beast of a machine compared to the "average" user is going to have.  There must be a way to run Theater View effectively on the secondary monitor.  This isn't really a tenable situation.

[raym]

On my laptop (specs below) MC hovers b/w 55-65% CPU utilization when idle and at the main menu. The background viz movement/rotation is very rough and appears to be skipping frames.

As stated at the top of this thread, I'm all for the button and image animation but as far as the background viz goes, there needs to be a way to disable it. 


System Info:
Media Center Registered 12.0.87 -- C:\Program Files\J River\Media Center 12\

Microsoft Windows XP  Workstation 5.1 Service Pack 2 (Build 2600)
Intel Unknown 413 MHz MMX / Memory: Total - 1047 MB, Free - 576 MB

Internet Explorer: 6.0.2900.2180 / ComCtl32.dll: 5.82.2900 / Shlwapi.dll: 6.0.2900 / Shell32.dll: 6.0.2900 / wnaspi32.dll: N/A
Ripping /   Drive G:   Mode:Normal  Type:Auto  Speed:Max
  Digital playback: Yes /  Use YADB: Yes /  Get cover art: No /  Calc replay gain: Yes /  Copy volume: 32767
  Eject after ripping: Yes /  Play sound after ripping: No 

Burning /  Drive G: HL-DT-ST RW/DVD GCC-4241N   Addr: 1:0:0  Speed:24  MaxSpeed:24  BurnProof:Yes
  Test mode: No /  Eject after writing: Yes /  Direct decoding: Yes /  Write CD-Text: Yes
  Use playback settings: No /

Portable Device Info
  Removed devices:

[JohnM]

Same problem with high CPU usage when using the 2nd monitor.

This is quote from http://www.realtimesoft.com/multimon/faq.asp#DirectX

DirectX hardware acceleration
Fullscreen applications are accelerated on any monitor, video overlays (using DirectShow) also. For DirectDraw and Direct3D applications running in a window, it depends on the DirectX version and the way they are programmed: prior to DirectX 8, windowed applications were never accelerated on secondary monitors. With DirectX 8, properly programmed applications will be fully accelerated on any monitor.

John

[glynor]

I thought that it was possible to accelerate Direct3D on any monitor...

[Matt]

Next build has some changes for multi-monitor displays.  Basically, the card where the display first appears will be hardware accelerated.

Doof, the screenshot you posted should be better with build 89.  Your card wasn't supporting large textures, but now we scale for the hardware. (it hurts visual quality, but it's better than the alternative)

[glynor]

Just tested it at home, and got basically the same results.

I'm seeing CPU usage ranges of 2-14% by Media Center 12.exe when in Theater View on my Primary Monitor, but the CPU pegs at 98% for that process when on my Secondary Monitor.

Also, Theater View on this machine is so slow as to be unusable when on the secondary monitor.  With the "mode" set to Text (rather than Thumbnails), the "second tier" on Theater View after choosing Audio from the "home" postion, took a full 3 minutes or so to appear.  The items "zoomed in" one at a time very slowly, after what seemed like an eternal delay.

Machine:

CPU: AMD Athlon 64 3200+ (Venice), 2 Ghz
Mainboard: ASUS A8R32 MVP (ATI RD580, S939)
RAM: 2 GB (200 MHz, dual channel)
GPU: ATI X1900XT (512 MB GDDR3, 621 MHz core)

Just thought I'd post.  12.0.90 fixed this issue on this machine.  Haven't yet tested it on my other system at work, but I'd expect it to behave similarly.

Theater View now acts (and has CPU Usage percentages) the same no matter which display I start it on.

[raym]

If only there was a way to turn the background viz in Theater View off so I could use it on my laptop like I used to.  In fact, the background viz is stressing this machine out so much that navigating using the arrows can take seconds to happen. The viz is clearly struggling - playing very rough (missing many frames) and sometimes just hanging my system for a second or two at a time.

Removing the background texture makes very little (or no) difference in the milliseconds per draw.  I think you're simply bumping the limitation of old hardware to refresh the screen.

Try a simple 3D visualization fullscreen. (like ring creation)  My guess is that it'll be slow, even though there are very few textures.

We want to support old hardware, but also need to be forward-looking.  Most newer cards will take nearly 0% of the CPU in the new Theater View.

Hi Matt, I totally agree that it's bumping the limitations of my hardware and yes, the ring viz makes this same machine chew 70-80% of CPU at fullscreen - but I am able to turn it off  . I also totally appreciate that JRiver needs to be forward looking... I don't want Theater View to change. All I've really been suggesting is a means of disabling the background viz (un-documented if you like) so that older hardware can utilize the other advantages Theater View/MC12 brings. It need not be a user option. As I've suggested previously, since it relates to the look of Theater View, it could make sence to enable this option via the skin's externaized settings in the XML. It's already possible to disable the cube animation for instance through the property: Style="0". Therefore, something very simple perhaps like:-

<BACKGROUND>
      <Item Location="*" Bitmap="BackgroundRoot.jpg"/>
      <Item Location="*\***" Bitmap="Background.jpg"/>
      <Item Style="0">
</BACKGROUND>

Thanks heaps.

[JimH]

Here's another CPU usage problem (with the probable cause):
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?board=3;topic=36594.2#msg249593

[jlencion]

I agree with raym, there should be some way to disable the 3D background stuff in theater view. Right now when I switch to theater view, my CPU for MC goes from 0% to about 95% and the thumbnails take a long time to come in. Theater view is one of my favorite features of the product, but this makes it so painful and frustrating to use.

[ADDiCT]

I'm also getting high CPU loads with Theater View, around 80% (!!!) with MC just sitting there (not playing anything). Navigation is _extremely_ slow, with every keypress taking some time to be recognized by MC.

The machine is not exactly lightning-fast, but it serves its purpose very well, and i strongly believe a PC like this should be totally sufficient as a HTPC. Currently, i'm not using Theater View, simply because it's too slow.

What's really "funny" IMHO is that many of the (really impressive!) performance optimizations in MC12 vs. MC11 are counterbalanced by (at least for me) unneccessary eye-candy stuff. In my opinion, MC's performance, usability and stability should be top priority -> "Form follows function".

Another point is that it's no longer possible to use Theater View via VNC, which i use alot to control my HTPC from various machines. The screen on the client simply stays empty, it seems that VNC can't handle the graphic mode MC uses for Theater View (latest Version of UltraVNC with Video Hook Driver installed). MC11's Theater View was working well via VNC.

IMHO, the perfect solution would be to let the user decide whether he wants to use the "old" or "new" Theater View. Maybe it would make even more sense to implement "Performance Profiles", like in PC games. I mean something like an entry in the options menu, where the user can select, for example, a "high performance" profile, where all eye-candy (including skinning!) is disabled, and a "high image quality" setting, where all bells and whistles are enabled. That would save users with slower machines a lot of headache and frustration (not everyone has the cash to get a high-end PC).

Code: [Select]

Media Center Registered 12.0.130 -- C:\Programme\J River\Media Center 12\

Microsoft Windows XP  Workstation 5.1 Service Pack 2 (Build 2600)
Intel Pentium 4 1978 MHz MMX / Memory: Total - 515 MB, Free - 180 MB

Internet Explorer: 6.0.2900.2180 / ComCtl32.dll: 5.82.2900 / Shlwapi.dll: 6.0.2900 / Shell32.dll: 6.0.2900 / wnaspi32.dll: N/A
Ripping /   Drive E:   Mode:Normal  Type:Auto  Speed:Max
  Drive F:   Mode:Normal  Type:Auto  Speed:Max
  Drive G:   Mode:Normal  Type:Auto  Speed:Max
  Digital playback: Yes /  Use YADB: Yes /  Get cover art: No /  Calc replay gain: Yes /  Copy volume: 32767
  Eject after ripping: Yes /  Play sound after ripping: No 

Burning /  Drive E: PIONEER  DVD-RW  DVR-111D   Addr: 1:0:0  Speed:48  MaxSpeed:48  BurnProof:Yes
  Drive F: _NEC     DVD_RW ND-4550A    Addr: 1:1:0  Speed:48  MaxSpeed:48  BurnProof:Yes
  Test mode: No /  Eject after writing: Yes /  Direct decoding: Yes /  Write CD-Text: Yes
  Use playback settings: No /

Portable Device Info
  Removed devices: