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Author Topic: MC12 iPod gapless playback not working.  (Read 9194 times)

lalittle

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MC12 iPod gapless playback not working.
« on: October 16, 2006, 12:07:14 am »

I posted this in the "build" thread, but it seems like it may be a good idea to make a seperate thread for this since it's such a specific issue.

I just updated my 60GB 5G iPod to firmware 1.2 and did a sync with MC12 (build 93.)  Since all the songs were encoded with a relatively recent version of MC (using the LAME encoder) this combination "should" give me gapless playback, but it does not.  Instead, I get one of two behaviors when a seam goes by.

1) The song "skips" forward just a tiny bit at the seam -- i.e. just a little bit MORE than the gap is removed.  It's only a very small amount of the song that is clipped, but it is cleary evident if you are familiar with how the transition is supposed to sound, or if a steady beat continues accross the seam.

2) A "pop" occurs at the seam.

All of the songs were encoded with a verison of MC that used a new enough version of the LAME encoder to include the gapless metadata.  This is confirmed both in the files' "Format" info, as well as with the fact that all these songs play perfectly gapless when using MC.  It's just the iPod playback that is not gapless.  Does the new system utilize the LAME metadate to achieve gapless playback?  If so, it seems like a miscalculation is taking place.  Based on what I hear when playing the same songs in MC, as well as what I've heard from the iPod using Rockbox, the songs should play back PERFECTLY gapless.

So far, it seems like a "possible" pattern to the two different behaviors is that VBR songs ("High" without the "fast" switch) exhibit the "missing piece" of the song, while CBR encodes exhibit the "pop."  Once again, all the songs DO play gapless in MC.

Does anyone else notice this?  I should note that with a 3G iPod, the behavior is the same as it was before -- i.e. the gaps are still there.

Thanks,

Larry
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RhinoBanga

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Re: MC12 iPod gapless playback not working.
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2006, 07:17:57 am »

I get #2.   All my tracks are LAME encoded, VBR, preset extreme and play back perfectly with Rockbox on my iRiver and in MC.
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lalittle

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Re: MC12 iPod gapless playback not working.
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2006, 07:34:48 am »

I get #2.   All my tracks are LAME encoded, VBR, preset extreme and play back perfectly with Rockbox on my iRiver and in MC.

Thanks for posting RhinoBanga.

Just to clarify, you're saying that you have an iRiver AND an iPod, and the iPod (using the 1.2 iPod firmware and MC 12 build 93) gives you the pops at the seams, correct?

What kind of iPod is it?  I'm using a 5G iPod Video (60 Gig.)

Thanks again,

Larry
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Alex B

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Re: MC12 iPod gapless playback not working.
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2006, 08:19:30 am »

To make this easier to JRiver, are either of you willing to try a few gapless LAME files with the latest iTunes & iPod? This would make sure that the gapless playback works correctly when the files are downloaded and the iPod database is build by iTunes.

AFAIK, iTunes converts the gapless playback info that is in the LAME header to Apple's internal format. During a file download this info is transferred to the iPod database. (As you may know, iPods do not read any physical file tags, like ID3 in MP3 files.)

I would try this myself, but the only iPod in our family (a Nano) is almost beyond my reach since it seems to be always away from home...

Here is a package of short MP3 test clips that can be used for testing gapless playback:
GaplessSamples.zip (942 KB)
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lalittle

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Re: MC12 iPod gapless playback not working.
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2006, 08:43:58 am »

To make this easier to JRiver, are either of you willing to try a few gapless LAME files with the latest iTunes & iPod?

I'm actually not able to put the newer iTunes on my system due to some incompatibilities with other software that requires Quicktime 6 and does not work with newer Quicktime versions (which the latest iTunes uses.)  When I updated my iPod, I actually took it to an Apple store and had them do it.  I might get a chance to try this on another system at some point, but this won't happen right away.

Quote
This would make sure that the gapless playback works correctly when the files are downloaded and the iPod database is build by iTunes.

I was wondering about this myself.  Based on my experience with the Rockbox firmware on the iPod (which plays back perfectly gapless with no pop), I would think that the new Apple firmware would work as well.  I have not, however, been able to try it using iTunes, and am very curious to hear other reports on this as well.

Quote
AFAIK, iTunes converts the gapless playback info that is in the LAME header to Apple's internal format.

I was thinking it might work that way.  It appears that MC may not be doing the "conversion" correctly.  This actually reminds me of what happened when MC first incorporated gapless mp3 playback, where slight "pops" could be heard when the seams went by.  JR fixed this problem right away, after which MC played back mp3s with NO gaps or pops.  I'm wondering if what we're hearing now is a similar situation.

Thanks,

Larry
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coolblue

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Re: MC12 iPod gapless playback not working.
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2006, 10:36:57 am »

On my system, LAME encoded MP3s play back flawlessly (gapless) when uploaded to the iPod (5th gen video and metal nano) from iTunes 7.

FWIW, iTunes does some analysis of its own of gapless information when tracks are imported (but gapless isn't engaged at playback unless the appropriate checkbox is set in the Info dialog) so I don't think the LAME metadata is used.

I haven't tried the gapless from MC12 - I've had weirdness when trying to "share" in iPod between iTunes & MC, but I have a "spare" 30GB 5th Gen I can try it on later today.

To clarify: I don't know at what version LAME added gapless metadata, and some of my rips are fairly old. They all seem to play back without any gaps (when there shouldn't be any) when dumped to the iPod through iTunes.
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Alex B

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Re: MC12 iPod gapless playback not working.
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2006, 01:36:15 pm »

FWIW, iTunes does some analysis of its own of gapless information when tracks are imported (but gapless isn't engaged at playback unless the appropriate checkbox is set in the Info dialog) so I don't think the LAME metadata is used.

It analyzes the files and uses a workaround in case the files don't contain LAME gapless header info. This does not produce exactly seamless file transitions, but is much better than nothing.

If the files contain LAME gapless header info iTunes coverts this info directly to its own format.

Quote
To clarify: I don't know at what version LAME added gapless metadata, and some of my rips are fairly old. They all seem to play back without any gaps (when there shouldn't be any) when dumped to the iPod through iTunes.

In MC12 you can check from the expanded Format info if a file has a LAME header with gapless info. (Action Window > Tag > Format > click to expand)
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coolblue

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Re: MC12 iPod gapless playback not working.
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2006, 03:15:05 pm »

In MC12 you can check from the expanded Format info if a file has a LAME header with gapless info. (Action Window > Tag > Format > click to expand)

This is interesting information. Having looked, I can see that the oldest gapless CDs in my collection were ripped with a gapless-aware version of LAME.

How does it know a CD is gapless? No silence between tracks or is there some special flag in the redbook format?
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Alex B

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Re: MC12 iPod gapless playback not working.
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2006, 03:55:14 pm »

All redbook audio CDs are gapless in this sense. If a track contains silent frames in the beginning or in the end these frames are still always part of a certain track. The so called pregap information is not used for anything when standard ripper programs make track files.

The LAME gapless header info makes possible to overcome certain MP3 format limitations. A technical explanation is here: http://lame.sourceforge.net/tech-FAQ.txt

A LAME header aware gapless player can reproduce exactly the original track length. It removes the added silence that does not exist in a wave (or a lossless) source file. It does not remove any silence that was in the original source file.

This is not limited to the Audio CD format anyhow. The source files can be from any source, for example from a live recording.
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RhinoBanga

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Re: MC12 iPod gapless playback not working.
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2006, 03:57:53 pm »

In MC12 you can check from the expanded Format info if a file has a LAME header with gapless info. (Action Window > Tag > Format > click to expand)

My tags all say "Gapless: Yes (x start, y end)"
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lalittle

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Re: MC12 iPod gapless playback not working.
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2006, 05:06:35 pm »

My mp3s (even the older ones) all contain the gapless LAME info as well.  It turns out that the LAME encoder has been including this information for quite a while, and since MC has been using the LAME encoder by default, even fairly old tracks can play back without gaps.

coolblue -- I'm looking forward to hearing what you find out with you're "other" iPod.  Thanks for testing this, and thanks to everybody for posting.

Larry
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RhinoBanga

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Re: MC12 iPod gapless playback not working.
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2006, 05:11:32 pm »

I installed iTunes to try the gapless thing but then immediately removed it ... it's a POS.
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Alex B

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Re: MC12 iPod gapless playback not working.
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2006, 05:43:43 pm »

It turns out that the LAME encoder has been including this information for quite a while

Since LAME 3.90 (released on December 21, 2001)
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JimH

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Re: MC12 iPod gapless playback not working.
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2006, 06:31:35 pm »

I installed iTunes to try the gapless thing but then immediately removed it ... it's a POS.
Oh, say it isn't so.....

 ::)
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SwellGuy

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Re: MC12 iPod gapless playback not working.
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2006, 09:43:38 am »

Can one of you send me an iTunesDB file with a couple gapless songs transferred via iTunes and another one with the same songs transferred via MC 12.0.94.

Thanks,
Rick (rick at jriver dot)
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coolblue

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Re: MC12 iPod gapless playback not working.
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2006, 11:06:29 am »

Okay, I tested this mess around till I got pretty bored with it  :) and here's what I've discovered:

On the 5th gen iPods ("video" HD-based) gapless playback isn't perfect regardless of whether it's loaded via iTunes or MC, so there are obviously other factors involved - probably buffering, locating/loading the next track, length of next track, etc. Not only that, but it's not always consistent from play to play. Sometimes the seam was nearly imperceptible, but it was almost always - if just - perceptible on either iPod.

Playing the same tracks in MC12 or iTunes, either from the iPod or HD, sounded as good as the CDs.

The same tracks loaded to a 2nd gen Nano produced gapless playback as good as playing from the CD. Given that it's flash-memory based, this shouldn't be too surprising.

I only have one 2nd-gen Nano and I load it from iTunes so I can't compare as I did with the 5th-gen iPods. I will try to make some time to back my playlists up and try it in the next few days, but given my experience with the bigger iPods, I suspect that it will be parallel with the Nano.

(NB: The reason I'm gun-shy w/r/t loading the iPod from either/both iTunes & MC is that the last time I tried, all of the iPod's cover art - yes, ALL of it - got wiped out. I'm not saying this is JRiver's problem and I haven't had time to do any further experimentation but I like my cover art and would like to keep it intact.)

I would be happy to provide details on the tracks used etc. if anybody is dying to know.

Todd
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lalittle

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Re: MC12 iPod gapless playback not working.
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2006, 05:23:32 pm »

Thanks for your report Todd.

On the 5th gen iPods ("video" HD-based) gapless playback isn't perfect regardless of whether it's loaded via iTunes or MC, so there are obviously other factors involved - probably buffering, locating/loading the next track, length of next track, etc. Not only that, but it's not always consistent from play to play. Sometimes the seam was nearly imperceptible, but it was almost always - if just - perceptible on either iPod.

Were all your tracks encoded with MC using a "gap aware" version of LAME?  I'm wondering if the "nearly gapless" behavior in iTunes is due to ripping with an encoder that did not add the gapless metadata to the file, or perhaps to some sort of inaccurate calculations regarding the gaps.  I know that the iPod is "capable" of gapless playback -- Rockbox proved this -- so it seems like it should be "possible" for the native Apple firmware to play back PERFECTLY gapless (like Rockbox does.)

Quote
The same tracks loaded to a 2nd gen Nano produced gapless playback as good as playing from the CD. Given that it's flash-memory based, this shouldn't be too surprising.

Actually, this IS surprising since BOTH players are playing back out of RAM -- i.e. even though the 5G iPod has a hard drive, it is not streaming directly off the drive.  Audio is buffered to RAM before it's played.

Quote
I would be happy to provide details on the tracks used etc. if anybody is dying to know.

Todd

Are you able to send Rick (Swellguy) the files he requested in the post above yours?

Thanks,

Larry
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coolblue

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Re: MC12 iPod gapless playback not working.
« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2006, 07:22:21 pm »

Larry,

I will put something together for Rick later on tonight or tomorrow. Now that it's easy to create new libraries in iTunes I can put together something compact.

None of the tracks I used for testing are > 6 months old (ripped to MP3, that is) and some I ripped this morning just for this test. (I rip most of my CDs at "--preset insane" (320kbps) not because I *am* insane - he insists a little too loudly - but because it's easier to add HD space than replace CDs should something happen to my physical media.) For testing purposes I ripped some tracks at a more standard 128kbps/VBR and it didn't seem to make any difference w/r/t 100% seamless playback.

There didn't seem to be any pattern to when the gaps were nearly impercetible the when they were "Mind the gap!" bad. 95+% of the time it was barely noticeable.

Just for grins I'll also rip some of these CDs in the Apple native formats (M4A and Apple Lossless) and see if they perform any better when dumped to the iPod.

Right now though I'd say this is *not* J River's "problem."

Todd
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Alex B

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Re: MC12 iPod gapless playback not working.
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2006, 07:26:07 pm »

Here is a package of short MP3 test clips that can be used for testing gapless playback:

GaplessSamples.zip (942 KB)


Try also these files.
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coolblue

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Re: MC12 iPod gapless playback not working.
« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2006, 07:27:05 pm »

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lalittle

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Re: MC12 iPod gapless playback not working.
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2006, 07:38:10 pm »

Right now though I'd say this is *not* J River's "problem."

This may in fact be true, but based on past experience, JR may STILL be the most likely people to actually find the source of the problem, and possibly fix it.  To put it simply, they're just good at this, and they work with users to figure out this sort of thing.  Even if this IS a problem with the iPod, it wouldn't surprise me if JR fixed it before iTunes did.

Larry
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coolblue

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Re: MC12 iPod gapless playback not working.
« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2006, 09:34:38 pm »

Try also these files.

The positions where there were irregularities were virtually identical between the iTunes loaded and MC12 (build 95) loaded iPods. Track #s are from-to:

2-3: slight pop. Sounded more like dust in the groove of a vinyl album than a digital gaff. Manifests 100% of the time.
8: there is a small pop at the *beginning* of the track. I don't know if this is in the source or an artifact of the gapless playback.
8-9: slight pop. See 2-3. Not as regular as others.
13-14: like 2-3. Manifests 100% of the time
16: Loud pop at the beginning of the track, like 8 but louder.
16-17: the most pronounced pop.

If these pops etc. weren't at transitions I could very easily believe they were part of the source material.

Uploading the same material to my 2nd-gen Nano (from iTunes) told a different story, however.

The pops at the beginning of tracks 8 & 16 were still present; therefore I believe they *are* part of the source material. However, none of the pops at the seams manifested themselves.

Todd

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lalittle

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Re: MC12 iPod gapless playback not working.
« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2006, 11:29:26 pm »

Thanks for all your work on this Todd -- I really appreciate you taking the time to test this stuff.

On my songs, I tend to hear the "jump" at transitions at least as much as I hear a "pop."  In other words, a little bit of the music is cut off at the transition.  This is VERY evident when the beat continues across the transition.  The ONLY time I find these flaws "less noticeable" is on live albums where the seam is during the audience applauding, and even in these circumstances I can still hear some amount of flaw at the seam.  With my albums that "need" gapless playback, however (Pink Floyd, Genesis, etc.), the "jumps" or "pops" at the transitions are quite distracting.  These albums are certainly NOT "gapless" on the iPod like they are with MC or with Rockbox.

Larry
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lalittle

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Re: MC12 iPod gapless playback not working.
« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2006, 03:56:13 am »

I just did some testing with build 95.  I deleted an album from the iPod and re-syched it.  The newly synched songs had the same problem -- a slight "jump" at the transition where a small piece of one or both songs were cut out.

I don't know if a full MC initialization will help -- I'll try to do this and set off a full sync later tonight, but I'm in the middle of some other work on that system.

Thanks again for any help/feedback on this,

Larry
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Alex B

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Re: MC12 iPod gapless playback not working.
« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2006, 06:56:04 am »

The positions where there were irregularities were virtually identical between the iTunes loaded and MC12 (build 95) loaded iPods. Track #s are from-to:

2-3: slight pop. Sounded more like dust in the groove of a vinyl album than a digital gaff. Manifests 100% of the time.
8: there is a small pop at the *beginning* of the track. I don't know if this is in the source or an artifact of the gapless playback.
8-9: slight pop. See 2-3. Not as regular as others.
13-14: like 2-3. Manifests 100% of the time
16: Loud pop at the beginning of the track, like 8 but louder.
16-17: the most pronounced pop.

If these pops etc. weren't at transitions I could very easily believe they were part of the source material.

Uploading the same material to my 2nd-gen Nano (from iTunes) told a different story, however.

The pops at the beginning of tracks 8 & 16 were still present; therefore I believe they *are* part of the source material. However, none of the pops at the seams manifested themselves.

The files are from a very old original recording (which is not copyrighted anymore and can be freely distributed). As you said, the recording has a couple of "vinyl pops". In any case the track seams should be "gapless & popless" if the used gapless playback system works correctly.
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coolblue

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Re: MC12 iPod gapless playback not working.
« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2006, 07:47:23 am »

The files are from a very old original recording (which is not copyrighted anymore and can be freely distributed). As you said, the recording has a couple of "vinyl pops". In any case the track seams should be "gapless & popless" if the used gapless playback system works correctly.

Then I would conclude (unscientifically but with some certainty) that gapless playback on the iPod 5th- and 5.5th-gen is *not* working correctly - at least not with the Apple firmware. If J River can find some cheats to get a leg up on Apple in this regard that would be fantastic. Gapless playback on the 2nd-gen Nano, on the other hand, gets full marks.

I am going to do some rips from within iTunes to see if those are any more gapless than the MP3s ripped from MC. Stay tuned.
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coolblue

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Re: MC12 iPod gapless playback not working.
« Reply #26 on: October 18, 2006, 10:00:52 am »

iTunes rips v. MC12 rips

I ripped tracks in both MP3 and AAC format from within iTunes (7.01). I also re-ripped the same tracks from MC12 (bld 95). Here's what I observed:

Ripping Software: iTunes; Upload Software: iTunes; Source: AAC; gaps evident: NO
Ripping Software: iTunes; Upload Software: iTunes: Source: MP3; gaps evident: NO
Ripping Software: MC12; Upload Software: iTunes: Source: MP3; gaps evident: YES
Ripping Software: MC12; Upload Software: MC12; Source: MP3; gaps evident: YES
Ripping Software: iTunes; Upload Software: MC12; Source: MP3; gaps evident: YES
Ripping Software: iTunes; Upload Software: MC12; Source: AAC; gaps evident: NA (did not upload properly, but that's another story).

Summary: When it's all internal to iTunes gapless playback works beautifully.

I *think* what I did with this will give Rick the library he needs (an iTunes library with an iTunes and MC12 rip of the same material). I'm going to email it to him and he can let me know if he needs something more/different.
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Alex B

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Re: MC12 iPod gapless playback not working.
« Reply #27 on: October 18, 2006, 10:28:36 am »

What exact MP3 encoding settings did you use with MC12?

It has been confirmed (at Hydrogen Audio forums) that iTunes converts the LAME gapless info to its own format on file import. It reads the LAME header and creates similar gapless info that it uses with internally ripped files. LAME MP3 files should play fully gaplessly already on PC playback with iTunes. An iPod is not needed for verifying the presence of converted gapless info.

AFAIK, gapless MP3 or AAC playback that is based on iTunes generated metadata info is not supported when MC is used for uploading.
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lalittle

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Re: MC12 iPod gapless playback not working.
« Reply #28 on: October 18, 2006, 03:44:09 pm »

Ripping Software: iTunes; Upload Software: iTunes; Source: AAC; gaps evident: NO
Ripping Software: iTunes; Upload Software: iTunes: Source: MP3; gaps evident: NO
Ripping Software: MC12; Upload Software: iTunes: Source: MP3; gaps evident: YES
Ripping Software: MC12; Upload Software: MC12; Source: MP3; gaps evident: YES
Ripping Software: iTunes; Upload Software: MC12; Source: MP3; gaps evident: YES

Now that's really interesting and extremely helpful.  It looks like the problem is not inherent to the iPod after all.

Thanks for sending the files to Rick.  As you noted, I would bet that those will give him the information he was looking for.

Thanks again,

Larry
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lalittle

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Re: MC12 iPod gapless playback not working.
« Reply #29 on: October 24, 2006, 05:14:40 pm »

Any updates on the status of this issue?  This is an important issue for iPod users who listen to gapless albums.

Rick -- Did coolblue's files reveal the source of the problem?

Thanks,

Larry
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coolblue

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Re: MC12 iPod gapless playback not working.
« Reply #30 on: October 25, 2006, 07:02:24 am »


Rick -- Did coolblue's files reveal the source of the problem?


I haven't heard anything back from him either....
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SwellGuy

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Re: MC12 iPod gapless playback not working.
« Reply #31 on: October 25, 2006, 04:40:26 pm »

Sorry guys, I haven't had time to work on this yet. It may be a while...
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lalittle

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Re: MC12 iPod gapless playback not working.
« Reply #32 on: October 25, 2006, 04:55:47 pm »

Sorry guys, I haven't had time to work on this yet. It may be a while...

Thanks for the update.  I appreciate you taking the time to touch base here, even if it's just to tell us that it's delayed.  Hopefully, when you get a chance to pick this up again, the files coolblue sent will point out the problem.

Larry
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lalittle

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Re: MC12 iPod gapless playback not working.
« Reply #33 on: November 06, 2006, 04:21:11 am »

Sorry guys, I haven't had time to work on this yet. It may be a while...

I was just curious if you had any idea how long a "while" might be.  This is proving to be a fairly serious issue to me since I listen to a lot of gapless albums, and the songs are being "clipped" in between tracks, which is very jarring.  I can't really say that it's as bad as the gap was before, but it's still VERY disruptive to listenning, and it's frustrating knowing that the playback "can" be gapless on the iPod, but that it simply isn't yet with MC.

Thanks for any updates on this,

Larry
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lalittle

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Re: MC12 iPod gapless playback not working.
« Reply #34 on: November 21, 2006, 03:13:08 am »

Just to update this issue, it's happening again with build 117.

Larry
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something fishy

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Re: MC12 iPod gapless playback not working.
« Reply #35 on: November 28, 2006, 06:15:34 pm »

I'm also having problems using 119.

1. I also get tiny glitches over transitions. Not all, some play as seamlessly as when I use itunes to upload, but others display a tiny glitch (either a very short gap or a click) that is not present when itunes handles the upload.

2. My master library is in WMA lossless. If I convert on the fly when transferring to the ipod (lame --preset fast extreme) some songs end prematurely (between 2 and 10 seconds prematurely; the song progress bar on the ipod never reaches the end). It seems as though the song duration is being incorrectly written to the ipod database. This only seems to happen if the conversion is happening on the fly. If I delete the track from the ipod and retransfer so that MC12 uses the MP3 version in the handheld cache song durations are correctly handled (though issue 1 remains).

3. The time remaining estimate for files being transferred to the ipod is erratic. I left it last night claiming 4mins to go, with a transfer rate of 5.6Mb/s, when it was roughly 10% of the way through a 50Gb sync.

More info:
The WMA lossless library is on a network share
The handheld cache is on an otherwise empty local drive
I'm using 2 instances of lame on a Core 2 duo. This keeps processor use at 80-100% (its very quick though)
Ipod is a Gen 5.5 80Gb
OS is WinXP Home SP2

Cheers
Eric
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lalittle

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Re: MC12 iPod gapless playback not working.
« Reply #36 on: November 28, 2006, 06:47:40 pm »

Thanks for the report.

1. I also get tiny glitches over transitions. Not all, some play as seamlessly as when I use itunes to upload, but others display a tiny glitch (either a very short gap or a click) that is not present when itunes handles the upload.

My guess is that this is due to the way mp3 packets work.  Depending on how much padding was added to the beginning or end of any given songs, this could effect how the transition sounds.

Quote
some songs end prematurely (between 2 and 10 seconds prematurely; the song progress bar on the ipod never reaches the end).

This is generally how I would describe what I'm experiencing, but in my case it's nowhere near that extreme.  I'm hearing less that a second cut off, but this is still VERY noticeable.  I'm NOT, however, doing any conversion.

Thanks again for the report,

Larry
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SwellGuy

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Re: MC12 iPod gapless playback not working.
« Reply #37 on: December 01, 2006, 11:00:12 am »

Larry,

I just wanted to let you know we got your files and can reproduce the clicks and pops you're hearing. We've got the problem whittled down to a single iPod database entry that we need to set but so far we haven't been able to figure out how to generate the correct value. We're still working on it...

Thanks for all the work you've done on this,

Rick
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lalittle

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Re: MC12 iPod gapless playback not working.
« Reply #38 on: December 01, 2006, 01:29:22 pm »

Thanks for the update Rick -- that's good news that you isolated the problem.  It sounds like you guys are getting close to solving this, but that Apple certainly didn't make it very easy.

Please let me know if there is anything else I can do to help.

Larry

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Magic_Randy

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Re: MC12 iPod gapless playback not working.
« Reply #39 on: December 01, 2006, 10:38:31 pm »

It's a shame that Apple doesn't share information with developers like JRiver.  I'm convinced they do not want anyone using anything other than iTunes.  They are going to make it as difficult as possible for people who don't use it.  iTunes is their golden goose (through which they sell down loadable music).  I really appreciate the JRiver team's tenacity in working thorough issues with no support from Apple.
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Re: MC12 iPod gapless playback not working.
« Reply #40 on: December 04, 2006, 02:17:20 am »

I'm still getting songs ending prematurely (about 2 secs) when they are converted from WMA lossless and uploaded to the ipod in one step.

Files uploaded from the handheld cache play fine.

Cheers
Eric
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lalittle

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Re: MC12 iPod gapless playback not working.
« Reply #41 on: December 20, 2006, 06:51:51 pm »

Larry,

I just wanted to let you know we got your files and can reproduce the clicks and pops you're hearing. We've got the problem whittled down to a single iPod database entry that we need to set but so far we haven't been able to figure out how to generate the correct value. We're still working on it...

Thanks for all the work you've done on this,

Rick

I was just wondering if there were any updates to this issue.  I haven't heard anything about this for a few weeks.

Thanks,

Larry
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craft

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Re: MC12 iPod gapless playback not working.
« Reply #42 on: December 26, 2006, 03:50:00 pm »

null
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NickM

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Re: MC12 iPod gapless playback not working.
« Reply #43 on: January 08, 2007, 02:38:25 am »

I'm getting a huge skip at the end of a track when encoding to LAME High, fast using MC12.139
The skip is sometime 30 seconds.
Latest firmware on my Nano (1.3).
Previously uploaded files work fine, so I guess this is something to do with the latest encoder.
Playing the files stored on the Nano from within MC12 seems to work OK.
Any suggestions?
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Marc

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Re: MC12 iPod gapless playback not working.
« Reply #44 on: January 13, 2007, 09:53:30 am »

I'm getting a huge skip at the end of a track when encoding to LAME High, fast using MC12.139
The skip is sometime 30 seconds.
Latest firmware on my Nano (1.3).
Previously uploaded files work fine, so I guess this is something to do with the latest encoder.
Playing the files stored on the Nano from within MC12 seems to work OK.
Any suggestions?
Just like Nick, I'm getting a skip at the end of my recently converted files while playing on my Gen-5 80 GB iPod video - except mine are about 8 seconds.  My lame settings are:

"lame.exe -V 2 --vbr-new"

Also, playing the files that are stored on the iPod via MC12, there is no skip - only while playing and listening through the iPod.

Media Center Registered 12.0.139 -- C:\Program Files\J River\Media Center 12\

Microsoft Windows XP  Workstation 5.1 Service Pack 2 (Build 2600)
AMD Unknown 2000 MHz MMX / Memory: Total - 2096 MB, Free - 1090 MB

Internet Explorer: 7.0.5730.11 / ComCtl32.dll: 5.82.2900 / Shlwapi.dll: 6.0.2900 / Shell32.dll: 6.0.2900 / wnaspi32.dll: N/A
Ripping /   Drive E: TSSTcorpCD/DVDW SH-W162C  Mode:Normal  Type:Auto  Speed:Max
  Digital playback: Yes /  Use YADB: Yes /  Get cover art: No /  Calc replay gain: Yes /  Copy volume: 32767
  Eject after ripping: Yes /  Play sound after ripping: No 

Burning /  Drive E: TSSTcorp CD/DVDW SH-W162C   Addr: 0:0:0  Speed:4  MaxSpeed:4  BurnProof:Yes
  Test mode: No /  Eject after writing: Yes /  Direct decoding: Yes /  Write CD-Text: Yes
  Use playback settings: No /

Portable Device Info
  Removed devices:

Device info dump for 'Apple iPod Video (G:)':

WMDMName: IPOD (G:)
DeviceUID: $$?$storage#removablemedia#9&1cc6a534&0&rm#{53f5630d-b6bf-11d0-94f2-00a0c91efb8b}$0
CanonicalName: \\?\storage#removablemedia#9&1cc6a534&0&rm#{53f5630d-b6bf-11d0-94f2-00a0c91efb8b}$0
VendorName: ; VendorID: 1452
ProductID: 4617; FirmwareVersion: 1.62
WMDMSerialNumber: NULL
DeviceType: 3; DeviceID: 8M6360W7V9P; DeviceName: Apple iPod; UnsupportedDevice: 0
IsDrive: 1; DriveLetter: G:; DrivePath: ; MainDriveLetter: G:
IsJanusCapable: ; IsIpod: 1
SupportsAlbumArt: 1; AlbumArtEnabled: 1
SupportsFolders: -1; PlaylistFormat: 0; EjectMode: 0; AlwaysPumpCOMMessages: 0
SupportedFileTypes: mp3;wav;mp4;aa;m4a;m4b;m4p;aiff;aif;bmp;jpg;jpeg;gif;tif;tiff;png;sgi;psd;mov;m4v
ContextMenus: Delete
MemoryTypes: Internal Memory
InstallURL:
ApplicationName: Media Center
ImageName: Apple iPod Video
RootBasePath:
AudioBasePath: Music\[Artist]\[Album]\
ImageBasePath: Images\
VideoBasePath: Video\
DataBasePath: Data\
PlaylistBasePath: ROOT\
DatabaseBasePath:
AudibleBasePath: Audible\
MatchKeyExpression: If(IsEqual([Media Type], Image), [Name][File Size, 0], [Name]Clean([Artist], 1)[Album][Genre]FormatNumber([Track #, 0])[Media Type])
ChangeKeyExpression: If(IsEqual([Media Type], Image),,[Rating][Composer][Date Modified])
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THAT's what I'm talking about.
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