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[raym]

Video Bookmarking

A couple of small bugs since the introduction of this:

1. When I pause before I seek a DVR-MS file, the video remains stuck on the same paused frame while I am seeking. I have to seek a second or sometimes third time to see an updated frame. This always used to work flawlessly prior to video bookmarking.

2. There is no OSD when seeking with CTRL+ARROW keys. CTRL+SHIFT+ARROW keys is ok.

Theater View Bugs

1. When bringing up a context menu on a list in Theater View, the menu and highlighted item appears chopped off (in terms of it's horizonal length) and looks pretty strange expecially with some skins.  Fixed!

2. The ALT+[1|2|3|4|etc] keys for jumping in and out of Playing Now and the various other views don't work for Theater View. The Alt+[Left Arrow|Right Arrow] is working fine however. Ok, by design.

3. When loading a web page via a custom root menu item, the left hand nav menu has the buttons "Play All" and "Display View" which don't make sense. Fixed!

[Matt]

1. When bringing up a context menu on a list in Theater View, the menu and highlighted item appears chopped off (in terms of it's horizonal length) and looks pretty strange expecially with some skins.

Changed back next build.

2. The ALT+[1|2|3|4|etc] keys for jumping in and out of Playing Now and the various other views don't work for Theater View. The Alt+[Left Arrow|Right Arrow] is working fine however.

These are Standard View only shortcuts.

3. When loading a web page via a custom root menu item, the left hand nav menu has the buttons "Play All" and "Display View" which don't make sense.

We'll try to change this soon.

Video Bookmarking

A couple of small bugs since the introduction of this:

1. When I pause before I seek a DVR-MS file, the video remains stuck on the same paused frame while I am seeking. I have to seek a second or sometimes third time to see an updated frame. This always used to work flawlessly prior to video bookmarking.

I don't think bookmarking could have caused this.  Also, I can't reproduce it with other video files.

With that said, my HDTV playback (with MC) does something a little like this, so I wonder if it's filter related.

2. There is no OSD when seeking with CTRL+ARROW keys. CTRL+SHIFT+ARROW keys is ok.

For some playback types, Ctrl+Arrow is a fast forward / rewind, and the OSD will show 2x, 4x, etc. 

Perhaps video playback FF / REW should work more like TV / DVD since there are explicit jump commands.

We've also wondered if we could get away with ONLY the jump 30 seconds ahead / jump 10 seconds back stuff. (and no ff / rew)

[glynor]

(moved from 110 Build thread)

1. When I pause before I seek a DVR-MS file, the video remains stuck on the same paused frame while I am seeking. I have to seek a second or sometimes third time to see an updated frame. This always used to work flawlessly prior to video bookmarking.

I'm seeing this too.  It happens with plain vanilla MPEG-2 Program Stream files. (Is that what DVR-MS files are, or are they encrypted too?)

EDIT: I'm using FFDSHOW (the one part of CCCP) for MPEG-2 decoding.  It may not be related to bookmarking, but this did not happen with older builds of MC12.  It's new.

[glynor]

We've also wondered if we could get away with ONLY the jump 30 seconds ahead / jump 10 seconds back stuff. (and no ff / rew)

Fine with me.  I never use the vanilla FF/RW since it doesn't work well with videos anyway.

[Griff]

We've also wondered if we could get away with ONLY the jump 30 seconds ahead / jump 10 seconds back stuff. (and no ff / rew)

That will work for me.

[raym]

Thanks for the replies Matt. The new FF / REW feature in build 112 is real nice!

I don't think bookmarking could have caused this.  Also, I can't reproduce it with other video files.

You're right, other video types seem ok. As Glynor has also observed it seems to relate only to MPEG2 Program Streams and I've changed nothing in terms of filters etc and tried reverting back to a build where there was no video bookmarking (although I can't prove it was this that started the problem) and seeking dvr-ms while pausing is flawless.

[Yaobing]

While I have not reproduced the seek-while-in-pause problem with dvr-ms files, I do see a related problem in FF/REW. With this type of files, it seems that the image is OFTEN not updated during seeking. I am guessing that it is a problem with Microsoft Stream Buffer Source filter not updating the image fast enough (or not updating at all). I am not sure if there is anything we can do about it.


P.S. I just tried playing a dvr-ms file in Windows Media Player. The image does not update AT ALL when seeking paused.

[glynor]

While I have not reproduced the seek-while-in-pause problem with dvr-ms files

Perhaps you just don't understand what we're doing.  For me...

1. I pause playback of a MPEG-2 Program Stream file (mpg container recorded by BeyondTV).
2. Hit Control-Shift-Right to jump forward by 30 seconds (or Control-Shift-Left to jump back).  Actually, in my case I'm using the Windows Messages which do the same thing through Girder, but same deal!
3. The playhead does advance, but the paused image on screen does not update to reflect this generally (occasionally it does, but 90% of the time it doesn't).

I'm not sure what the difference between this is and what you mentioned here:

I do see a related problem in FF/REW. With this type of files, it seems that the image is OFTEN not updated during seeking.

[Yaobing]

Perhaps you just don't understand what we're doing.  For me...

OK, I was doing the seeking with mouse clicks. Now I tried using Ctrl+Shift+Arrow, still can not reproduce.

I'm not sure what the difference between this is and what you mentioned here:

The difference is that in FF/REW, the playback is not paused, but a series of rapid-fire seek operation simulates fast play (now you have my secret of doing FF/REW  )

[Yaobing]

I can now confirm the behavior that you guys have reported, with SOME mpg files (MPEG-2), but still not with MY dvr-ms files.

Again, this probably has to do with the combination of MS Stream Buffer Source (or other source filter), and MPEG-2 Decoder in use.

[glynor]

The difference is that in FF/REW, the playback is not paused, but a series of rapid-fire seek operation simulates fast play (now you have my secret of doing FF/REW  )

Yeah...  In my MPEG-2 files that exhibit this problem, the FF/REW function doesn't work at all.  Again, the playhead advances, but the image on screen stays frozen until I resume normal play.  I figured this was the method you were using to FF/RW.  I should mention though... FF/RW on those same files works fine in Media Player Classic.

Also, for me, reverting back to 12.0.104 (pre-bookmarking) does not solve the problem.  Same old, same old.

[glynor]

Here's a screenshot of G-Spot with one of the offending files open:


Click to enlarge.

[raym]

... this probably has to do with the combination of MS Stream Buffer Source (or other source filter), and MPEG-2 Decoder in use.

Again, this issue only started recently.  I can't remember which build started it but this issue started sometime after bookmarking was introduced. I always pause before seeking when playing back dvr-ms (or recorded TV streams) so it's something I easily spotted. I've changed nothing, only MC. Filters, files used etc are all the same.

Thanks.

[Yaobing]

Again, this issue only started recently. 

Is it possible for you to provide a small sample file that exhibits this problem? My dvr-ms files (they are TV recordings using MC TV, with FusionHDTV device, so they may not be typical dvr-ms files) work fine in this respect. While some of my mpg files (as well as glynor's) have the same problem, the problem is not specific to the latest builds (unrelated to bookmarking feature).

[Yaobing]

Additionally, I found the behavior is dependent on which video renderer is in use. You may try unchecking "Use VMR" option.

[glynor]

Can I just say... mostly unrelated ...

I really, really, really, really like the new video bookmarking feature.  I didn't really ask for it (I know some others did) and I was somewhat skeptical about it, but after just a few days, I'd hardly know what to do without it.

Good work.  Another fine reason to upgrade to v12!!!

[raym]

Is it possible for you to provide a small sample file that exhibits this problem?

What's the best way for me to do this?

While some of my mpg files (as well as glynor's) have the same problem, the problem is not specific to the latest builds (unrelated to bookmarking feature).

I have to disagree. I've downloaded almost every build of MC for the last 2 months and seek all my recorded tv shows with MC while in a paused state and only noticed the issue when I upgraded to the first video bookmarking build. I thought it was odd so I reverted to a previous version of MC to compare (I can't remember which build) and the problem went away.

I'm happy to help resolve it in any way I can.

[Yaobing]

What's the best way for me to do this?

The best way, perhaps the only way, is to put it on some server and give a link here, unless the file is tiny, that can be emailed. If it can be emailed, mail it to yaobing at jriver dot com

I have to disagree. I've downloaded almost every build of MC for the last 2 months and seek all my recorded tv shows with MC while in a paused state and only noticed the issue when I upgraded to the first video bookmarking build. I thought it was odd so I reverted to a previous version of MC to compare (I can't remember which build) and the problem went away.

I'm happy to help resolve it in any way I can.

What I said was that the files that I can (or glynor can) reproduce the behaviour with (MPEG-2 files with mpg extension) do not get better when reverted earlier version of MC. That is why I would like to test one of your sample files.

[glynor]

The best way, perhaps the only way, is to put it on some server and give a link here, unless the file is tiny, that can be emailed. If it can be emailed, mail it to yaobing at jriver dot com
What I said was that the files that I can (or glynor can) reproduce the behaviour with (MPEG-2 files with mpg extension) do not get better when reverted earlier version of MC. That is why I would like to test one of your sample files.

Right-e-o!  I tested rolling back with my MPEG-2 files, and it didn't fix it.  I even tested on a machine that had NEVER been updated to anything newer than 104 (actually I think it was still on 100 or 101) and it still happened there as well.

[raym]

Hi Yaobing. I'm in the process of uploading a 2 minute test dvr-ms file for you. The file is split in 3 parts so wait for all the parts to upload (it's taking a while!).

So in summary...

1. Start playing the file in MC and hit pause immediately
2. Seek 30 seconds forwards using CTRL+SHIFT+RIGHT ARROW
3. The seek bar will advance but the video frame remains paused as it was
4. Repeating step 2 will eventually update the frame

+ I'm using PowerDVD 7 filters.
+ I've only started experiencing this issue after a recent MC12 build upgrade.
+ I've not changed anything else.

Thanks and let me know if I can do anything else.

[raym]

Yaobing. Upload is complete. You should have received some emails. Let me know if there are any problems obtaining the test file.

[Yaobing]

Yes. I got the sample.

Prelimilary result:

The video behaved the same as my other .mpg MPEG-2 files (also TV recording) in current build, i.e. no reliable updating of image while seeking paused, using my current decoder settings.

I have not tried rolling back to a pre-bookmarking build yet. I will.

However, I did find a way to make seeking while paused work. Using "Cyberlink Video/SP Decoder (ATI)" as decoder, and turning off hardware acceleration by unchecking "Use Hardware Accelerator" on its property page, I was able to make seeking-while-paused work correctly.

So this seems to be related to hardware acceleration.

Your PowerDVD decoder should be very similar to my decoder if not identical. Please try turing off Hardware Acceleration.

[Yaobing]

I uninstalled MC12 and reinstalled build 104, the last one before video book-marking. The result is the same. Your sample file does exhibit the same problem as in later builds.

Therefore I am pretty sure this is not related to any changes (bookmarking or other changes) since build 104.

Did you happen to reinstall PowerDVD? Have you changed the hardware acceleration setting on the Cyberlink decoder?

On my computer, with build 104, or any later builds, your sample dvr-ms file, as well as some of my mpg file exhibit problem when seek while paused. There is no problem if Cyberlink video decoder's "Use Hardware Accelerator" setting is turned off.

[Yaobing]

Another observation:

This is definitely related to choice of decoder used.

On my computer, Cyberlink (with "Use Hardware Accelerator" setting) and FFDShow decoders have problem seek-while-paused. MainConcept video decoder and InterVideo NonCSS Video Decoder for Hauppauge (neither of them have hardware acceleration option) do not have the same problem.

[glynor]

Gabest MPV Decoder (used by default with CCCP) also exhibits it.

[raym]

Yaobing, here's something very interesting.... I still have MC11.1.197 on one of my machines so I decided to try this. This version of MC DOES NOT exhibit the seek with pause issue.

Are you able to look at this version and maybe try to work out how it did things differently?

Thanks.

[Yaobing]

Yaobing, here's something very interesting.... I still have 0009109: Playback: MC11.1.197 on one of my machines so I decided to try this. This version of MC DOES NOT exhibit the seek with pause issue.

Are you able to look at this version and maybe try to work out how it did things differently?

Thanks.

The main difference between MC12 and MC11 is the ability to select filters and the use of "video mixing renderer 9". MC11 relies on DirectShow to automatically load filters. It may load a different set of filters as in MC12.

"Video Mixing Renderer 9" maybe the key issue here. Please try in MC12 uncheck "Use Video Mixing Renderer".

In MC11 the only way to see which filters are used is to use log file. Turn on Log type "Playback", and look for entries like this:

Code: [Select]

0009109: Playback: DumpGraph:     Filter [79b4a5c]  'Video Renderer'
0009109: Playback: DumpGraph:           Pin [59c695c]  'VMR Input0' [Input]  Connected to pin [79befbc]
0009109: Playback: DumpGraph:     Filter [79b02f4]  'Default DirectSound Device'
0009109: Playback: DumpGraph:           Pin [79b04d4]  'Audio Input pin (rendered)' [Input]  Connected to pin [59bce0c]
0009109: Playback: DumpGraph:     Filter [79becd4]  'MainConcept MPEG Video Decoder'


[raym]

Woo hoo!!

Yaobing. Since build 118 (I think), this problem has gone! 

What's changed? I havn't seen any related changes listed in the most recent build notes.

Anyway, I'm not complaining...

[Yaobing]

Well nothing in that regard has changed. In fact on my machine it still behaved the same as before - problem seeking-while-paused when Cyberlink decoder is set to use hardware acceleration. No problem when hardware acceleration is turned off.

[raym]

Well nothing in that regard has changed. In fact on my machine it still behaved the same as before - problem seeking-while-paused when Cyberlink decoder is set to use hardware acceleration. No problem when hardware acceleration is turned off.

Well that's strange.  Not the response I had expected. I havn't touched a thing either. Just installed 118 the other day and ever since then, it's been perfect.

[raym]

"Video Mixing Renderer 9" maybe the key issue here. Please try in MC12 uncheck "Use Video Mixing Renderer".

Oh, I see.... Disabling Video Mixing Renderer is the answer! Sorry, I missed this suggestion when you mentioned it originally but I'd obviously disabled it without thinking much about it.

Thanks for all your help Yaobing. Phewww!