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[Mastiff]

I have been running MC12 on my work computer and notebook for some time and I haven't seen anything scary. But my main library computer (which also stores the files) is still running 11.1. Do you think MC 12 safe enough to start using it there as well now?

[lalittle]

I have been running MC12 on my work computer and notebook for some time and I haven't seen anything scary. But my main library computer (which also stores the files) is still running 11.1. Do you think MC 12 safe enough to start using it there as well now?

I can't speak for everybody, but I've been using MC12 exclusively now for several weeks.  While there are definitely some bugs that crop up from time to time with some builds, I don't think there is any reason to worry that the library itself will be "damaged," so I would personally say that it's completely "safe" to use MC12.  If you want to be "extra" careful, you might want to watch the threads for bugs that may effect you, and post if you run into one.

Larry

[Mr ChriZ]

I've used it exclusevly since August with no problems that weren't
there in 11.1

[Rob L]

yep, I ditched MC11 for my central library a few weeks ago too.

There were a few unusual systems I use that link into it which I was worried about not working and whilst they don't work perfectly, there's nothing disastrous (for instance, NetRemote works only if you run MC12 first)

[hit_ny]

It's called a beta for a reason. I won't be moving to it till much later.

Keeping a library intact is challenging enough without having to worry about bugs.

[Magic_Randy]

I cut over about a month ago.  I use MC12 exclusively.  I find it to be pretty stable.

[Mastiff]

OK, thanks! I'll probably do the safe thing: Do a full image backup of the OS, a library backup, and finally renew my full music backup (exact copy on an extra set of disks that reside in my carputer). Then I'll uninstall MC11.1, install MC12 and try it with a few operations for a week or so. For my part it's really easy: If multizone playback of MP3 files, tagging and NetRemote control works, I have all I need. I don't use any of the more advanced features, the portable players, anything at all DRM and so on. The playback I have tried for a long time with my office computer and notebook. The NetRemote control I have working on another computer that will replace my main Internet and file server (not media server) in a few days.

The only thing I haven't tried is the tagging and management. Doesn't seem like there are any hughe bugs with that as of now, I only save artist, track number, track name and album name to the files. The rest is purely in the library. I tried to work without anything saved to the files, but it turned out that the track names could change to incorporate the track number as well, so I had to save some data to the files. Oh well, can't win 'em all. OK, off to do my backup chores...

[Magic_Randy]

Then I'll uninstall MC11.1, install MC12 and try it with a few operations for a week or so.

You can keep both MC11 and MC12 installed.  They work fine side by side.  I ran that way for about a month before I was comfortable enough to uninstall MC11.

[Rob L]

though actually I found some funny stuff happening when I did that because NetRemote couldn't make up its mind whether it was talking to MC11 or 12 

[Mastiff]

Which is why I'm uninstalling. I have read about that problem at the Promixis board, and NetRemote is a 100 % necessary part of my system.

[glynor]

I've been 100% MC12 for a while now (a few months at least) and have had no problems.  It's really been safe since they opened up the beta to everyone.

Are there bugs?  Well, yes, of course.  There are bugs in 11.1 as well!

[Magic_Randy]

I think you will be happy with MC12.  A lot of people - both Beta users and JRiver - put in a big effort on this release.  I think you will find it very stable.  Worst case is just re-install MC11, but you probably will not have to do that.

[modelmaker]

I have to concur with everyone else. I switched a few weeks ago as well with no real issues (certainly not with the original files).

I keep the same data as you in the files (plus the cover art) and the only prob I had with the switch was losing the links to a bunch of cover art, but that was easily fixed and I'm not sure that was MC12's fault anyway.

You will need to let MC12 rebuild the thumbnails (which takes up a good amount of cpu power and time with large libraries). Just let it do it overnight.

Except for the NetRemote issue, both MC 11 &12 can happily co-exist.

[Listener]

My library is in Flac format so I'm curious about MC 12 performance with Flac files.  Has anybody with lots of Flac files switched over to MC 12 as their main or only version of MC?

Bill

[Mastiff]

Well, the deed is done, and it seems to work as it should. It's a lot faster to show the changes when I'm doing tagging work, like filling properties from filename. That lead to a long pause (mentioned in a thread on the 11.1 board), but that's maybe 1/4 of what it was with 11.1.

But there are annoyances, especially that I can't remove preset views, like Documents. Don't have any use for that what so ever, it's just taking up space. Then there's the stupid thumbnail taking up space in the tag window (part of the action window), and the rating (something I don't use at all either). That Playing Now isn't at the top anymore has been covered before, I know. And it took me almost half an hour to change all my custom child views so that they show the panes and details. There should be a way to save a customization of a view for all child views, and I'm pretty sure there was one a few verisions ago. Where did that go? Except for that I'm good...

[glynor]

But there are annoyances, especially that I can't remove preset views, like Documents. Don't have any use for that what so ever, it's just taking up space.

It will disappear if you don't have any files that are [Media Type] = Document added to your library.  As long as you have some, it will be there.

Then there's the stupid thumbnail taking up space in the tag window (part of the action window), and the rating (something I don't use at all either).

I like the thumbnail in the tag window, but I agree wholly about the ratings.

And it took me almost half an hour to change all my custom child views so that they show the panes and details. There should be a way to save a customization of a view for all child views, and I'm pretty sure there was one a few verisions ago. Where did that go?

None of us know.  It disappeared I think with version 11.1.  A lot of us would really prefer to have the old "Save for this View and All Child Views" button back.  Actually, I think this here would be a better idea...

[lalittle]

But there are annoyances, especially that I can't remove preset views, like Documents. Don't have any use for that what so ever, it's just taking up space.

I do use "Documents," but I agree that it would be nice to be able to remove any of the items you don't have a need for.

Then there's the stupid thumbnail taking up space in the tag window (part of the action window), and the rating (something I don't use at all either).

I don't mind the thumbnail in the TW, but I would also get rid of the "rating" if I could since I never use it and it just takes up space (and sometimes accidentally get's changed, which is annoying.)  I WAS able, however, to get rid of the "Rating" column in ALL the track view panes, which were an even bigger space hog, and the rating in the "Playing" bar can also be removed by right clicking in that area.

That Playing Now isn't at the top anymore has been covered before, I know.

I agree, but a decent workaround is to add the "Playing Now" button to the top/bottom menu bars where it never moves, and where it gives you instant access to it regardless of the state of the tree.

And it took me almost half an hour to change all my custom child views so that they show the panes and details. There should be a way to save a customization of a view for all child views, and I'm pretty sure there was one a few verisions ago. Where did that go? Except for that I'm good...

I don't use "that" many custom views, so this didn't effect me as much as it did you, but I still agree with you that this would be a good feature for people that set up a lot of custom views.

Larry

[Mastiff]

Ok, Documents is dead! Turned out that it had imported some HTML files that were in the same directories as some of my music automatically. Even though I hadn't set it to import anything! I have no idea how that happened.

As for ratings I'd love to be able to delete completely that and a bunch of other built-in fields. Too bad you can only delete custom fields, which I really don't want to delete. If I wanted that I wouldn't have created them!

Glynor, good idea you had there. That would be very nice!

Finally the reason that I have so many views is that I use the same library both inhouse and in the carputer, and I need a bunch of special NetRemote views.

[TXgary]

I am running 11.1 and 12 side by side.  One really big problem.  11.1 is my production so when I update 11.1 I back it up and restore to 12.0 which causes 12.0 to corrupt the library.  Some items appear with <varies> in their database fields like artist.  Not sure what is going on.  Are better yet how should one move his library from 11.1 to 12.0?  The problem arises when you change the playlists in 11.1 you have the need to get them to 12.0 conveniently.  Is there a better way to move the database and all from 11.1 to 12 periodically?

Thanks

[Mastiff]

I have done several restores from 11.1 to 12 on different computers and I have never had any problems. There may be a deeper problem in your main library.

[Alex B]

I have done several restores from 11.1 to 12 on different computers and I have never had any problems.

It's the same for me. I restore MC11.1 libraries almost daily on two different PCs that I use for testing MC12. I haven't had a single problem with this.

Edit

As you can see I have not changed to MC12 yet. I want to be sure that everything works as expected. I am not the only user and especially not the only library maintainer in our household. My main library has survived over four years during all MJ/MC versions and I am not going to change the "production" environment before MC12 is final or at least a stable RC that is not likely to change suddenly.

[TXgary]

It appears that the problem is the Audio View Schemes - They appear to be hosed when restoring 11.1 to 12.  11.1 is fine, but the view schemes in 12 are not.. Something as simple as Artist - Song

[glynor]

That's really odd.  I restored my library from 11.1 almost daily before I switched over to 12 full time a month or two ago.

Try creating a new library in v12, then close MC12.  Navigate to the folder where you created the new library and delete all the files inside it.  Then manually copy (make sure to copy not move) the database files from v11.1's library over and put them in the new v12 library folder (the one you just emptied).  Then start up MC12 and see what you get.

I wonder if the backup/restore functionality is broken again in this build (that happened once before in the beta process).

I've actually been having a lot of trouble (all pretty minor, but crashes and weird error messages) with the builds over the past week.  Matt did some "optimization" early last week.  I remember JimH's comment was "Good luck"...

[TXgary]

I tried what you ask, but no change.  The audio View Schemes are not working.  They look good, but are not giving the correct results.

[InflatableMouse]

My library is in Flac format so I'm curious about MC 12 performance with Flac files.  Has anybody with lots of Flac files switched over to MC 12 as their main or only version of MC?

Bill

I've got over 100 gb in Flac. I use it to backup my CD collection. Install the latest MC12 and the 2.x FLAC input and encoder plugins and your set to go.

[glynor]

Finally the reason that I have so many views is that I use the same library both inhouse and in the carputer, and I need a bunch of special NetRemote views.

I have lots of View Schemes because I like to be able to view my media in lots of different ways, depending on what I'm doing or how or why or what type of media it is.

That's the biggest reason I like MC.

[TXgary]

What remote are you using for netremote.  I found that my netremote running on an x51 Dell PDA was too slow.  I liked the interface, but slow I cannot handle.

[Listener]

I've got over 100 gb in Flac. I use it to backup my CD collection. Install the latest MC12 and the 2.x FLAC input and encoder plugins and your set to go.

Thanks for the good info.  I'm caught up on  ripping my collection (~2000 CDs and about 500 GB of Flac files ripped with MC 11.)  I'm ready to try out MC 12.

Bill

[hit_ny]

I have 6500+ albums with all in all more than 80 000 tracks

..and the rating (something I don't use at all either).

..i wonder how you don't lose track of the "good" stuff. The famous ones sure, but there must be several albums/artist with such a large collection, how to remember the best 2 or 3 (say), or something you heard a few months ago and liked but cannot remember which album it was ?

Does having MC in the car mean, you never need to bother with this question since you always have all your tunes with you

[modelmaker]

Thanks to Mastiff, whose idea I ran with, I also put together a carputer, (a couple of years ago now), so I could drive around with my complete digital library on board!

MC12 is on an old IBM Notepad hooked up to 2-200 gig HDs, (aka media backup). I only have about half as much as Mastiff; 42k mp3s @ 256 VBR. The Notepad is connected via an aux input to the car stereo.

The "car" is 1964 Ford Econoline "cruiser/camper" Van - ex Monkey (Montgomery) Ward delivery van, still in original paint with 321 000 original miles - ok, most of the mechanicals have been rebuilt or replaced. I haven't repainted the van as the old beat-up look keeps the vandals away. I've driven it to and thru 32 states over the past 23 years. I used to travel with 900+ cassettes in custom built drawer/cabinets, later added hundreds of CDs. With MC and the hard drives, I've been able to lighten the load by about 250 pounds!

[Mastiff]

TXgary, in the car I use a touchscreen and NetRemote on the local computer. But I have an o2 XDA Atom PDA phone with a 416 mHz XScale @ 520 mHz, and the only slowdown is when starting NR on the PPC, that can take 8-16 seconds, but from then on it's not a problem.

hit_ny, if I have heard something once I remember what it was. Don't need the ratings for that. And when I listen to music, I often go on "blind dates". First I decide what genre I want to listen to, then I just select a letter and pick stuff at random (or run a smartlist picking tracks at random). And yes, I always have all my stuff with me.

Modelmaker, wow! I have inspired somebody to something else than wanting to kick my butt!

[hit_ny]

hit_ny, if I have heard something once I remember what it was. Don't need the ratings for that. And when I listen to music, I often go on "blind dates". First I decide what genre I want to listen to, then I just select a letter and pick stuff at random (or run a smartlist picking tracks at random). And yes, I always have all my stuff with me.

Sure, but if you use the random smartlist approach, what's to stop a (or more) duff track(s)  from slipping in. ..or do you just delete tracks from albums that you don't like. But then you have incomplete albums which may or may not be ok depending on your perspective.

You could always use the >| button, and fingers crossed, next track will be ok

[Mastiff]

I don't delete anything. Never have, never will. And if a track is boring, it's just one button push to go to the next. If I'm listening to a full album, I don't jump. I want the whole view. Oh, and I don't have one incomplete album in my library! Anal? Probably...

[Mr ChriZ]

Hehe love the van modelmaker!
It looks almost like it should say "The Mystery Machine" on it 

[glynor]

Modelmaker, wow! I have inspired somebody to something else than wanting to kick my butt!

Actually, I've been giving a lot of thought recently to building a Carputer as well (somewhat inspired by you).

What I'd really like is a Touchscreen that I can somehow mount on my dash for control, MC on the system for music, and possibly eventually (though not at first) some sort of GPS navigation system.  I'll also probably want to set it up with wireless so I can sync the libraries in the garage without any cables or anything.  The only other thing is that I have already a few desktop boards (a P3 750 MHz system and a Athlon XP 2200+ system) that are collecting dust that I'd probably like to use for the project.

That's really it, and I'd prefer to keep it as simple as possible.  I'm somewhat experienced with Girder but I've never touched NetRemote.  Do you have any suggestions at all?  Places to start?  Advice or cautions?  Places to buy stuff (or touchscreen recommendations)?

[Mastiff]

Wow! Don't know if I can take this burden of being such an inspiring character... I bought a Liliput 10.4" touch screen on eBay from Hongkong, it was probably 300 dollars. But then I have a Chevy Suburban with a huge center console that has room for this beast. You will find a lot of different touchscreens there, and they're generally a lot cheaper than in the regular specialist carputer or computer shops. I have a NetRemote setup that I'm very satisfied with, and it works very well on 800x600. I can control the music, the movies to the back seat (and the kids also have their own NetRemote setups to control movies themselves with a touch pad each), navigation and the PDA phone from that touchscreen. The only thing it doesn't do well is scrolling and right clicks, but I do that with a touch pad like the ones my kids have. They were from eBay as well. I have a rather sophisticated integration between NR and Girder on that computer, but it should be possible to do what you want without going that far. I am in the process of writing an article for a Norwegian Internett page called www.hardware.no, where I have written about building a HTPC before (with MC, of course). I'll announce it on the forum when that's published.

[glynor]

Wow... A touchpad.  I hadn't thought of that.

Hmmmm .... 

[Mastiff]

Thinking outside of the box is my specialty! I do that a lot, my home theater Cinema Inferno is built so far outside of the box it's almost in the neighbour's house!

[511PF]

I've had all kinds of problems with MC12 and the Windows Vista release version.  Just a few:
* Library stored on a network drive gets constant "This library is in use by another" user errors when I open the app.  I have to remove the library and re-add to library manager to get it to work again.
* iPod Nano would delete and re-add the the same four albums on every sync.  In the "Details" list for the iPod, it would list these four albums and say "To Be Deleted" and then list them again to be added.  No rhyme or reason as to why this would be so.
* Moved library to local drive and it would no longer play any of my MP3 files located on the network.
* Uninstalled and reinstalled and above-mentioned problem persisted.
* MC12 must run as Administrator on Vista, so you're prompted every time you run the program.
* iPod Nano won't charge when plugged into a USB hub (not a MC thing)
* MC11 on Vista won't detect on my Nano, which is a problem acknowledged by JRiver.

Vista has been generally pretty good, but application compatibility just isn't there yet.  So MC12 is probably fine, but I wouldn't try it on Vista if you own an iPod.

[Mastiff]

Well, for one I don't really like Vista much. It's pretty, but that's just about everything it is. Vista is a child care OS for people who doesn't know much about computer security. To me it's just annoying, with all those confirmation requests and all that stuff. And iPod? Nope, I use my Windows Mobile 5 PDA phone if I want to listen to something on the go. So none of these matter. Did you read the rest of the thread, or even the first message, to see what my uses are, or did you just feel like taking a stab at MC and Vista integration?