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[johnnyboy]

Hiya,

Imported my 16971 photo's into MC and started going through it to try use it to manage them.

A few of my initial impressions are:


   * If I double click an image in my display (when viewing in panes), I cant just click up and down to then instantly have a look at the next one. It really is just normal behaviour for any image viewer or management app I have ever tried that if you view an image, you can always view the next or previous one instantly.
If I add them to playing now I can but I dont want to be adding them to any specific place, I just want to be quickly seeing them to see what they look like.

   * Playing now (when I have some music playing) doesn't show me my images. I have the music playing as background music while I'm trying to work on my Photos yet MC seems to have decided for me that I care more about the music than the photos when in actual fact the opposite is true (when I click 'Pause', 'Next' etc in full screen I mean for the images, not for the music).
I personally feel there should be some way to toggle between music/images for playing now.
One mode works how it does now, press the button and the current playlist shows images you're looking at and makes all the controls work for the images?

   * Similar to the above but the controls resize the image when viewing which is distracting - I'd love a mini control for pausing, next, maybe also with rotate and a couple of other frequent tools that worked in the same way it did in Windows Slideshow viewer - just really subtle and discrete in the corner without resizing the main image.


As I'm using it more (gonna get a LOT of first hand experience with it dealing with this many photos) I'll give more comments if they're wanted?

[gappie]

i made two zones, one for music and one to work on images. that way you have two playing now lists. does work for me.

[Alex B]

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=35110.msg239523#msg239523

[marko]

Please do. The more the merrier.

MC12 has made leaps and bounds in the image handling dept., but still has a way to go.

the page up/down keys take you through the image list, space bar pauses/plays the slideshow.

rotate left/right are there already, under right click, advanced:


It's always been a source of frustration for me that there's no way to access other commands or tools for images from the display window, so this is on my current wishlist:

when playing both audio and images, the dislay's context menu has "send to... (currently playing track)" would love to see "send to... (currently displayed image)" on there too.

you might find this thread (previewing images) interesting reading, the same thread Alex linked to while I was typing this

Another tip you might find useful enables you to view a list of photos with the newest photos at the top of the list, but sorted into the order they were taken on each day (oldest first within each day). It can help to make tagging a little more intuitive.

[date (filename friendly)] looks like so for me:

yyyymmdd-hhmmss

I created two new custom fields using calculated data, effectively splitting the data into seperate date and time info...

1. Time expression: mid([date (filename friendly)],9,-1)&DataType=[Number]
2. Date (no time) expression: mid([date (filename friendly)],0,8)&DataType=[Number]

Open the customise current view dialogue and set sorting rules:
date (no time) (z-a)
time (a-z)

Click OK and enjoy

As an organiser, MC is very accomplished, making it easy to locate the photos you need, and with MC's universal drag and drop support, getting photos into 3rd party apps is also very simple.

-marko.

[johnnyboy]

I'll read that thread later when I get more time.

All sounds awfully complex though for a pretty straight forwards task. Having a simple button in playing now:

Music Mode / Pictures mode

That I can toggle between the two would be far easier for me and therefore also for every other new user?

[marko]

yes, I have to agree, neat idea. I'd use it if it were implemented, though to be honest, adding a 2nd zone gives you exactly this scenario, and it's only a press of ctrl+t away.

[park]

I agree with jonnyboy.

I dont currently know how to use different playback zones (and though it's most likely dead simple), I dont think that I should be required to learn it, just to be able to scroll through pictures (and see a high res preview)

jonnyboys solution is a good one (within the realm of having to "play" your files in order to see them big).


An independant slideshow control interface that doesnt interfere with currently playing music is what's needed.
The current menu within a right click menu method of controlling a slideshow is very clumsy. There used to be next and previous buttons in the playing now window frame, which popped up when you moved the mouse. You could also bring up the list of images from the same place and jump to the one you wanted. That was better than the current functionality.

I also like the idea of having an on screen display with the basic image commands and ratings field, which could be alpha blended and pop up on mouse over.

Of course, my ultimate solution (I realise I sound a bit like a stuck record), would be to make the "image preview" action window detachable. Then we could scroll through the images in our image viewschemes, tagging and viewing images at any size we like, to our hearts content. We wouldnt have to go near playing now with our images until we actually did want to "play" them.

[johnnyboy]

Sounds good to me park

MC is a great database and with audio the main part of the work is sorting and choosing what you want then just playing it (something that requires no real visual to do).

With photos however they are a completely seperate entity where the most important part of them is visual and wants to easily move around viewing different ones easily.

Currently MC has great features to move around and find / sort thumbnails but the actual power for viewing these full screen is quite limited (or so it seems to me at first impression).

Any built in additional features to make browsing/viewing images full screen would be hugely welcomed.

[Alex B]

I dont currently know how to use different playback zones (and though it's most likely dead simple), I dont think that I should be required to learn it, just to be able to scroll through pictures (and see a high res preview) ...

An independant slideshow control interface that doesnt interfere with currently playing music is what's needed.

You would need to learn to use that "independent slideshow control" as well. It would probably be more complicated than learning to make a new zone. "Zone 2" for images works fine.

I see that you started the linked "Previewing Images" thread. Do you mean that you never actually tried the things that were discussed in that thread?

The current menu within a right click menu method of controlling a slideshow is very clumsy. There used to be next and previous buttons in the playing now window frame, which popped up when you moved the mouse. You could also bring up the list of images from the same place and jump to the one you wanted. That was better than the current functionality.

I agree. I was against of removing the old player bar controls and also against removing the right-click image list (I still miss it).

However, "Zone 2 for images" gives you complete "Playing Now" functionality and controls without removing the possibility to use an image playlist as a music visualization in "Zone 1". You can actually run both displays simultaneously in separate detached windows.

EDIT

Of course, my ultimate solution (I realise I sound a bit like a stuck record), would be to make the "image preview" action window detachable. Then we could scroll through the images in our image viewschemes, tagging and viewing images at any size we like, to our hearts content. We wouldnt have to go near playing now with our images until we actually did want to "play" them.

Use "Zone 2" and detach the display window. You can browse and tag in a standard view scheme and each time you play an image it will show up in the detached display. You'll need to change the "Jump On Play" behavior to "None" in MC's options (I did that years ago and I have never needed any kind of "jumping on play" since then).

[gappie]

i agree with alexb. im using a differnt zone since mc11. call one zone music and the other pictures or something like that and you get all you want. the detacheble display from mc 12 makes it even more contoleble. put the rotate left and right in the toolbar, and the new zone switch, and you have some nice ways to work on your pictures.
i do not see how the other proposition can make it better. becuase it is all there.

now only if there were some more shortcuts ed to get more control via remote.

[johnnyboy]

Just tried the different zones and it worked quite well.

Few small points though:

1. When I'm double clicking an image because I want to view it full screen (I've detached the display and put it on my second monitor), it's adding it to 'playing now'. I dont want to add it to any playlist or anything, I simply want to be viewing it full screen.

2. This full screen display is perfect for images, its fast loading and 'feels' light and fast. Seeing as audio video and images are such different items needing different requirements why not have each with its own display viewer?  For audio all thats really needed is the top bar as it currently is, if you want visualisations or track info or whatever too then you're creating audio and image which is basically video and so the full screen display as it is works great for video and would also for the audio.

Why not customise this image display screen to be the display mode for images properly with a few tools and menu's etc like the one for video's has.
A small play button, a pause button, next image, previous image, zoom in/out, rotate left/right.
If a nice little image GUI was added to this view it'd make the program feel alot more dedicated to images.


3. Simplify this whole 'zone' process slightly so maybe image displays are automatically sent to a second zone or something? I've done it and it works beautifully, but even as a techie, the only way I learnt how to do it was to come to this forum - do you really want every user having to come here first and ask? For the non techie ones, even after asking they still might not work it out. Seems like a waste of so much power if 90% of users never realise its there or how to use it.


4. Let me go through my current images that I'm viewing in the panes with a Page UP and a Page Down after I double click on them. It just goes through the ones in playing now which is not really what you want when you're trying to organise images. If I double click on an image in the panes - page up and down should go through the images that I have visible in the panes. If I do it in playing now it should go through the ones in playing now, if I do it in a playlist it should go through those ones etc?



It seems to be working pretty well for images, just alot of the features seem 'hidden' so to speak whereby you have to be told they're there and how to use them.
Anyway, its a great program and thanks for adding that decoding of next and previous image - works great.

[Alex B]

1. When I'm double clicking an image because I want to view it full screen (I've detached the display and put it on my second monitor), it's adding it to 'playing now'. I dont want to add it to any playlist or anything, I simply want to be viewing it full screen.

This depends on your chosen double-click behavior option. I have it set to "Add to Playing Now (to end)" so I need to use right-click > play in my "Image" zone.

A feature request: Move the Behavior options from General to Playback so that each zone can have individual behavior settings.

... I've done it and it works beautifully, but even as a techie, the only way I learnt how to do it was to come to this forum - do you really want every user having to come here first and ask? For the non techie ones, even after asking they still might not work it out. Seems like a waste of so much power if 90% of users never realise its there or how to use it. ...
... It seems to be working pretty well for images, just alot of the features seem 'hidden' so to speak whereby you have to be told they're there and how to use them.

I think this is a documentation matter. No one expects to be able to master complex programs without first studying. For example, you can use a few basic features of MS-Office, Photoshop etc intuitively, but you need to learn how to use the advanced features and techniques.

I seriously hope that someone at JRiver is making notes during this beta cycle so that things like this can be added to the help file. Is Lise going to update the help file once again? She has not been very active recently. I wonder if she is following threads like this.

[johnnyboy]

You're right about Photoshop and Office but I dont think it's a valid analogy.
With office you can write documents in it and add images pretty easily. With MC, viewing pictures is not that easy a task - you cant just import an image and then view it and easily go between images viewing them all full screen easily. Compare this to ACDSee, Adobe Photoshop Elements, Picasa, etc and they all allow you to do this easily and instantly and they're a far better comparrison than say Photoshop which is a tool designed for professionals who use it for business and so expect to have a learning curve with it.

[Alex B]

You're right about Photoshop and Office but I dont think it's a valid analogy.
With office you can write documents in it and add images pretty easily. With MC, viewing pictures is not that easy a task - you cant just import an image and then view it and easily go between images viewing them all full screen easily. Compare this to ACDSee, Adobe Photoshop Elements, Picasa, etc and they all allow you to do this easily and instantly and they're a far better comparrison than say Photoshop which is a tool designed for professionals who use it for business and so expect to have a learning curve with it.

I actually meant that at general level, not especially related to this topic. E.g. you can type text with MS Word without any previous experience, but you need to actually study things like paragraph styles to use them effectively. Another word processor may have quite different paragraph style options.

Similarly MC's "Images" section can be used intuitively, but like with any other complex program the advanced techniques have a learning curve. I would say that "simultaneous playback from an audio/video database and image database handling with a high resolution preview option" can be called an advanced technique.

Surely, the user interface could be developed further, but that is a different matter. For example, this discussed technique can become an usable feature for everyone already in its present form. Only a well-written section in the Help file is needed.

[JimH]

You're right about Photoshop and Office but I dont think it's a valid analogy.
With office you can write documents in it and add images pretty easily. With MC, viewing pictures is not that easy a task - you cant just import an image and then view it and easily go between images viewing them all full screen easily.

Ways to view:

Thumbnail view
Double click to view full screen, escape to return
or
Hit enter to view full screen, enter or escape to return

Start and stop slide-show with space bar. 

Zoom in and out with mouse wheel or + and - keys.  Drag image around with left mouse click hold.

Double click on play button to view full screen.

Page up and page down keys to cycle through images.

I'm having trouble understanding why you find this difficult.  What are you missing or expecting?

Maybe you're looking at a list view, not a thumbnail view?

There is information in the Help file also.

[park]

I think that he is working on the assumption of playing images, whilst listening to music. In which case, most of the image commands are hidden in right click menus or keyboard shortcuts.

JimH is right that "playing" images is very simple. If you play a bunch of images you move to playing now and everything is there for you; a list of the images, which one is being displayed now, a nice big display of the image, and if you have the tag action window open you can tag while you watch. From my end, I see the problem being in having to "play" the images just to see them. For me "playing" a slideshow is very different to viewing or "previewing" images. A slideshow is something you watch from bed or your armchair, and enjoy with your music. "Previewing" is something you want to happen without clicking, so that you can focus on the job at hand ("tagging" usually).

My problem is that I like to use tagging mode and usually want to apply a tag value to groups of images at a time. Sometimes this means refreshing the panes to see the new values and then making new selections and doing deeper tagging.  With a detachable image preview window, I would always be in synch between the selected image, and the file I am tagging, but with playing now, you either "play" one file at a time, or play a bunch of files and then try to "follow", or keep up with the playback (in terms of timing etc.) when tagging.