Topic: Support for BluRay / HD-DVD? (Read 3210 times)

jmone · « **on:** January 04, 2007, 02:45:55 pm »

Hi, not that it matters to me (yet - but hopfully soon

) but does MC support playing commercial BluRay / HD-DVD movies (including all that high tech decryption)? If we what "bits" do we need to add to get this support?
Thanks
Nathans

Magic_Randy · « **Reply #1 on:** January 04, 2007, 03:06:42 pm »

I'm not sure of the MC support for Blu-ray & HD DVD...

But - in addition to MC compatibility, you also have DVD compatibility. To play Blu-ray or HD DVD on the PC, you will have to have a compatible DVD drive. You can not play a Blu-ray DVDs on a normal DVD drive, but they are backward compatible. So if you have a Blu-ray drive, it should play normal DVDs. Also, Blu-ray and HD are not compatible. So even if you have a Blu-ray DVD drive on your PC, it will not play HD DVDs. I'm not sure if you can buy Blu-ray or HD DVD drives for exiting PCs, but I do know that Sony sells laptops with Blu-ray DVD drives.

jmone · « **Reply #2 on:** January 04, 2007, 03:14:38 pm »

Hi Magic,

BlueRay drives are out (eg Sony makes one) but are still expensive. The "potential" issue is not the backwards compatibility in playing DVD's from either a BluRay or HD-DVD drive or the "incompatibility" between these formats (note: the first hybrid BluRay / HD-DVD disks are now appearing) but what will be needed in MC to play commercially released BluRay and/or HD-DVD disks. I imagine that adding the relevant codec (H264?) and having a system able to output 1920x1080p with HDCP will be one part, but the other will be what players have been licenced for the decryption of these disks (eg PowerDVD can but MC?)

Thanks
Nathan

Magic_Randy · « **Reply #3 on:** January 04, 2007, 03:33:44 pm »

Nathan,

JRiver will have to comment on their plans, but I think it is more a matter of when, not if, they will support the HD formats. Just like people stopped buying VHS and switched to DVDs, the same will happen with HD. So I can see no way around it for MC. I'm not sure which format will win in the long run. My bet would be on Blu-ray. Eventually players will be able to play both formats, but that is not true today. In fact, some players don't even play CDs (e.g. Sony & Pioneer).

Randy

glynor · « **Reply #4 on:** January 04, 2007, 07:58:45 pm »

Quote from: jmone on January 04, 2007, 03:14:38 pm

BlueRay drives are out (eg Sony makes one) but are still expensive. The "potential" issue is not the backwards compatibility in playing DVD's from either a BluRay or HD-DVD drive or the "incompatibility" between these formats (note: the first hybrid BluRay / HD-DVD disks are now appearing) but what will be needed in MC to play commercially released BluRay and/or HD-DVD disks. I imagine that adding the relevant codec (H264?) and having a system able to output 1920x1080p with HDCP will be one part, but the other will be what players have been licenced for the decryption of these disks (eg PowerDVD can but MC?)

They certainly are out (and the XBox 360's external HD DVD drive makes a perfectly good PC HD DVD drive for $200 BTW). For it to work without JRiver specifically adding support for them, you would certainly need to have DirectShow splitters installed on the system which can split and decode the compression on the discs, and also deal with the AACS digital restrictions management infection on the discs (which means you'd need more than a H264 decoding filter).

WinDVD and PowerDVD both have software that can handle both of the next-gen formats, but in all the reviews and previews I've read, they seem decidedly NOT ready for prime time. I also have no idea if these player's filters are "locked down" and wouldn't allow other applications to use them to playback the discs (though I would guess "yes").

So, the answer is... I'd guess, probably not as is, but maybe (if PowerDVD or WinDVD is installed, works, and is more friendly than I suspect).

Matt · « **Reply #5 on:** January 04, 2007, 08:13:30 pm »

It's an area we have our eyes on, but it's a little ways out for all of the reasons mentioned in this thread.

rjm · « **Reply #6 on:** January 04, 2007, 09:53:49 pm »

HD-DVD was cracked on Dec. 27

This is a very intersting thread with lots of content on HD DRM.

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=119871

Mastiff · « **Reply #7 on:** January 05, 2007, 01:33:15 am »

Cracked and cracked... Decoded without autorization, more like. But still I haven't seen any real proof that it works. On the other hand a working hack is gonna happen sooner or later, that's for sure.

glynor · « **Reply #8 on:** January 05, 2007, 08:17:13 am »

Quote from: Mastiff on January 05, 2007, 01:33:15 am

Cracked and cracked... Decoded without autorization, more like. But still I haven't seen any real proof that it works. On the other hand a working hack is gonna happen sooner or later, that's for sure.

Right.

Also, to be clear, the "crack" (still remains to be seen if it's real or not) also applies equally to BluRay, since it was actually AACS that they worked around. The only reason that it wouldn't be considered a crack of BluRay (assuming that it works at all) is the ROM Mark "feature". So, while the crack could be used to decode the content from a BluRay disc, and you could then take that data and burn it to a HD DVD disc and it'd work, you could not burn it back to an unprotected BluRay disc (because the BluRay player would see the ROM mark and refuse to play the media off of a BD-ROM disc).

Of course, it's only a matter of time before they're able to detect and remove/recreate the supposedly "undetectable" BD ROM-Mark in all likelihood. And besides... Who cares? If I was going to rip a BD or HD-DVD disc, it'd be to create a MP4/MKV version to store on a hard drive right now anyway.

...And the insanity goes marching on.

Mike Noe · « **Reply #9 on:** January 05, 2007, 10:00:19 am »

Quote

..And the insanity goes marching on.

You can say that again. I just finished reading the threads over on AVS (format war and insider threads). Fascinating information in those threads, but disappointing as well, for it appears that it will be some time before this all shakes out.

Osho · « **Reply #10 on:** January 05, 2007, 10:58:50 am »

About format war between HD-DVD and Blu-ray, watch out the news from CES at Las Vegas. There are a number of announcements expected that may help with resolving format war. One of them is dual-capability players/drives from LG. another is an introduction of "TotalHD" format that will work with either HD-DVD or Blu-ray player. The counsumer electronics industry has realized that until the format war is resolved, most customers are not going to touch either of them with a 10-feet pole. I am usually always interested in being on the edge in terms of CE devices, but I am not gonna buy either HD-DVD or Blu-ray drive until the format war is resolved.

Osho

glynor · « **Reply #11 on:** January 05, 2007, 11:20:43 am »

LG has just announced that they will indeed be building a hybrid BluRay/HD-DVD player (as opposed to Time Warner's hybrid discs which will be demoed at CES). More here:

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070104-8550.html

And Samsung is still hanging on the fence, waiting to see what happens. However, most industry watchers don't think the hybrid players will make much of a difference in "ending" the format war, since Sony's licensing costs for BluRay and the necessary hardware will push the cost of the dual-format player into the ultra-high-end spectrum for the forseeable future.

For now, if I was a betting man (I'm not), I'd put my money on HD-DVD rather than BluRay if forced to choose. Despite BluRay currently having slightly better studio support (but this is partially because of Sony owning a bunch of studios), and slightly better technical capabilities, HD-DVD currently leads in two huge ways (and ones that often end up mattering most): manufacturing-ease/cost and licensing. BD looks so far to be a typical move from typical Sony. If the past can be used as any kind of guide, Sony will probably trip and cough up the ball before too long.

We will see. For now, my butt is also firmly planted on the sidelines. And frankly, who needs a HD optical disc format anyway? It seems to me like a solution desperately searching for a problem, and a see-through ploy to prop up movie studio profits again. Do they seriously think that all of those Average Joe's who just finished building their "back" DVD collections up (which is a big reason why the DVD sales figures are suddenly slumping) are going to do it all again? Most of them don't even realize that their DVD's aren't already HD!

My money would probably go on neither format doing particularly well compared to DVD, and both being eventually replaced by digital downloaded content.

rjm · « **Reply #12 on:** January 05, 2007, 12:09:33 pm »

It would be nice to have a higher capacity optical disc than DVD-R for data backup purposes.

But I agree, I am not going to buy anything until this shakes out and media costs drop. I figure at least 3 years before we see media at the same $0.30 price I now pay for DVD-R.

Magic_Randy · « **Reply #13 on:** January 06, 2007, 02:01:13 am »

Quote from: glynor on January 05, 2007, 11:20:43 am

My money would probably go on neither format doing particularly well compared to DVD, and both being eventually replaced by digital downloaded content.

My guess is that Blu-ray will win in the medium term - although Sony will fumble along the way.

But I agree with you 100% - the real winner will be digital downloaded content. But how do you back it up? I say on HDD, not DVD/HD/Blu-ray.

jmone · « **Reply #14 on:** March 31, 2007, 05:31:37 pm »

Well we just got our PS3 yeasterday (yup a year behind in PAL countries) and the Blu Ray video playback quality is just awesome! Any further on MC's HighDef plans for Blu Ray support?

Thanks
Nathan

PS To me this is where CE devices just excel, Just plugged in in, connected the HDMI cable, turned it on and flawless performace out of the box. But where is all the fun tweaking Direct Show drivers, filters, settings

jmone · « **Reply #15 on:** August 04, 2007, 06:59:19 am »

Bump...

Any further update on MC12 support for BluRay / HD-DVD? I'm building a new HTPC soon as see that the drives are now down to a few hundred $'s

Thanks
Nathan

BartMan01 · « **Reply #16 on:** August 04, 2007, 08:33:43 am »

Quote from: jmone on March 31, 2007, 05:31:37 pm

PS To me this is where CE devices just excel, Just plugged in in, connected the HDMI cable, turned it on and flawless performace out of the box. But where is all the fun tweaking Direct Show drivers, filters, settings

That is where having very limited playback support comes in. The PS3 doesn't support a lot of common video formats. You can install Linux, but then you back to messing with drivers, filters, and settings.

But back on topic: BR/HD-DVD support on PC's is still iffy. Most people don't have monitors that support HDCP and aren't ready to throw down the $$ to replace what is otherwise a perfectly good monitor just to get BR/HD-DVD on their PC.

jmone · « **Reply #17 on:** August 07, 2007, 07:01:10 am »

It is a serious question for me. I'm about to build a new 1080p based HTPC that will be integrated with my AV equip using HDMI/HDCP. BluRay Drives are now under $400 (read only).
What is JR's position Bluray support?
Nathan

jmone · « **Reply #18 on:** October 25, 2007, 07:27:12 pm »

Any update on support for BluRay from within MC12? - I've got my new 1080p 60" Pio Kuro

on order and would hate to put it to waste!
Thanks
Nathan

JimH · « **Reply #19 on:** October 25, 2007, 07:59:13 pm »

Not yet.

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Author Topic: Support for BluRay / HD-DVD? (Read 3210 times)