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[jmone]

Can anyone please advise on the relative merits/downside of VMR9, 7 or Overlay for DVD/video playback (FYI I am using the nVidia decoders which has these options)?

The reason I ask is after the last version upgrade the DVD playback looked terrible (lots of macro block effects) which went away when I checked the VMR9 box in MC  (but then introduced some tearing in the top 10% of the screen ) - Funny thing is I don't think I ever changed this option before tonight!?!?!

Thanks
Nathan

[jmone]

Thanks to Yaobing for the following:

VMR9 is most advanced. Use it whenever you can. Use others only if VMR9 does not work well (there are situations like that).

Here is a paragraph from Microsoft DirectX documentation:

"Video Mixing Renderer Filter 9 (VMR-9). This video rendering filter is similar to the VMR filter that is available for Microsoft Windows XP. The
VMR-9 is more powerful than the original VMR (now called the VMR-7) because it is fully compatible with the DirectX 9.0 graphics capabilities and it offers improved support for deinterlacing and ProcAmp control (brightness, contrast, hue, and saturation). The VMR-9 can also be redistributed, unlike the VMR-7, which is only available on Windows XP."

VMR-7 is available only on XP (well, I do not know if it is available on Vista, it should). It has some similar capabilities as VMR-9, but not all.
It does not offer ProcAmp control (as mentioned above).

Overlay (legacy video renderer) is less efficient (old technology). It does offer ProcAmp control.

Digital TV in MC uses VMR-9. I do not plan to change that since it works.
For video playback, as well as DVD (with only VMR9 and Overlay, no VMR7), it is just a matter of choosing one that works the best. We have seen some cases where a file type (flv for instance) would not work with VMR9, but works with VMR7.

[Mike Noe]

I'll throw in my $.02, at this point, purely from a non-technical POV.  XPSP2, ATI IGP 9100, Celeron 90nm, OC'd to ~3.2Ghz.

I use 3 apps for MPEG2 video playback (DVD):  Media Player Classic, VLC and to a lesser extent, MC12.  The reason I don't use MC12 right now is that there is something that MC12 is doing in relation to my onboard ATI IGP that is not quite kosher with FFDshow (which I'm using for decode/filtering).

With VLC, using VMR9, I get about the same image quality as using MPC/MC12 w/FFDshow and VMR9, but the load on the CPU is much, much lower using VLC.  This applies to the use of the Overlay Mixer/Renderer as well re: CPU load.  Output colorspace changes results in similar perf and quality as well.  Quite amazing and I'm guessing that VLC is either using tweaked assembly code or is somehow smart enough to offload to the video hardware, it's probably both.  Either way, using both playback options, the image quality is quite impressive.

When using MPC w/FFDshow, you have much more flexibility to tweak the image and load constraints, using VMR9 or not.    VMR9 in general, gives a much more 3D look to the image and the colors are more vibrant than using the legacy video renderer.  That said, I think my config is near the low end in terms of getting optimal perf using FFDshow/VMR9 as I do get jaggies on fast transitions sometimes.

Also, I'll throw this out, each config is different and will give different results, so you might have to play around with it for a while to figure out what works best for your particular setup.

[zirum]

Also, I'll throw this out, each config is different and will give different results, so you might have to play around with it for a while to figure out what works best for your particular setup.

Boy, do I hate when that's the conclusion. But nontheless I find it's the truth quite often as well...

[jmone]

I too find the VMR9 quality terrific but I seem to suffer on "tearing" in the top 10 - 20% of the image during panning sceens. 

I thought it was my nVidia 6200TC not being up to the tasks so I've purchased a 7600GS but I till seem to get the same problem (note: I'm using the nVidia DVD Filters which I find are terrific for both audio and video quality AND always getting the aspect ratio correct).

Any suggested tweaks?

Thanks
Nathan

[JONCAT]

Weird....I have a 7600Gs using FFDshow on a lot of AVI's (some not all) I see that tearing. I 'll have to test my Purevideo playback of DVDs with MCbut I think that's fine. It seems to be isolated to FFDshow & VMR9 in MC.

DC

[Mike Noe]

It seems to be isolated to FFDshow & VMR9 in MC.

fwiw, on my setup, I see it (the VMR9 tearing) on MC12, ZoomPlayer, MPC, and VLC.  And VLC is not using DirectShow.

So from my vantage point, it's either decode (ffMpeg) or VMR9 in conjuction with ATI drivers.  Everything is a compromise, heh? 

[jmone]

I've played with a few settings and found that the nVidia Pure Video decoder seems to with best with the Video setting (over Smart, Auto, Film) in "almost" eliminating the tearing.  FYI from their site "Video - Forces video mode and applies de-interlacing. Choose this option if you see combing or feathering artifacts in the video."

[bspachman]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like MC can be set to use a different video renderer depending on video file type or DVD. However...

When I go to Options>Playback>DirectShow Playback Settings and choose a video filetype to modify which filters are applied to it, the only Video Renderer I have listed is VMR9. The drop down list functions, but only VMR9 is listed. Are there supposed to be other choices in this area?

When I go to Options>Playback>DVD Playback Settings, I can choose the checkbox for "Use VMR9 if available". If checked, several of the DVD filters disappear (presumably because they don't even offer VMR9 capabilities). I can then manipulate the various filters' settings to my heart's content.

So, should video files (other than DVD) be giving alternate choices for the renderer used?

Best,
brad

[Yaobing]

Yes, there should be choice for video renderers.

Video Mixing Renderer 9
Lagacy Video Renderer
Video Mixing Renderer 7 (on XP or later only)

Something is wrong if you do not see these listed. What version of MC are you using? What is your Operating System?

[bspachman]

In the DVD Configuration (assuming 'Use VMR9 if available' is unchecked) I have the following list of DVD filters in the right-side pane:
Video Renderer
Default DirectSound Device
ffdshow Audio Decoder
Overlay Mixer
NVIDIA Video Decoder
DVD Navigator

However, in the Choose DirectShow Filters dialog, all that shows in the drop-down is VMR9.

I'm running Windows 2000 (all updates), and MC12.0.179.

System Info as follows:
Media Center Registered 12.0.179 -- D:\Program Files\J River\Media Center 12\

Microsoft Windows 2000  Workstation 5.0 Service Pack 4 (Build 2195)
Intel Pentium 4 1814 MHz MMX / Memory: Total - 523 MB, Free - 235 MB

Internet Explorer: 6.0.2800.1106 / ComCtl32.dll: 5.81.4968 / Shlwapi.dll: 6.0.2800 / Shell32.dll: 5.0.3900 / wnaspi32.dll: N/A
Ripping /   Drive Z:   Mode:Normal  Type:Auto  Speed:Max
  Digital playback: Yes /  Use YADB: Yes /  Get cover art: Yes /  Calc replay gain: Yes /  Copy volume: 32767
  Eject after ripping: Yes /  Play sound after ripping: No 

Burning /  Drive Z: PIONEER  DVD-RW  DVR-106D   Addr: 1:0:0  Speed:16  MaxSpeed:16  BurnProof:Yes
  Test mode: No /  Eject after writing: Yes /  Direct decoding: Yes /  Write CD-Text: Yes
  Use playback settings: No /

Portable Device Info
  Removed devices: