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Author Topic: UPnP questions  (Read 12512 times)

mmlevin

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UPnP questions
« on: March 08, 2008, 02:22:47 pm »

The following are either questions (does MC implement the feature already, and I just don't know how) or a "wish list"
ALL the following relate to using with a media player, through the Upnp server:

1)  Method to restrict access to certain IP or Mac addresses of media players (I use DSM-520) based upon MPAA ratings (sort of a "parental control" feature.?
2). When stopping playback of a video or audio file, position in the file is saved.  When same meda player later selects to play same audio/video file, allows user to either "resume" from last position or start afresh.  (This feature seems to be the default operation in D-Link's server, WMP11, WinAmp, etc.).
3). Cover art displayed on media player when playing music.  This feature is default on WMP11, etc.  Can't seem to get this working on MC.
4). A way to allow display of "notes" on media player (i.e., used for description of video, before playing).

I love MC 12.  I use it exclusively for the Upnp streaming to my home network, with 6 media players.  Items 1 and 2, above, are issues I have to address.  Items 3 and 4 are less important, but would be really useful.
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JimH

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Re: UPnP questions
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2008, 05:33:18 pm »

For parental control, try View/Access Control.

Thanks for the kind words.
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John Gateley

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Re: UPnP questions
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2008, 07:56:48 pm »

3 & 4 are the easiest, I think. I'll look at them when I get the chance.

For 2, could you give me a description of what happens on the device (what kind of device too)?

j

mmlevin

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Re: UPnP questions
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2008, 10:53:26 pm »

The device is a D-Link DSM-520.  When running with WMP or the D-Link server, if I start playing a movie (let's call it MOVIE) and then stop mid-way, navigate out, or even watch (or listen to) something else, then tell the device to play MOVIE again, I get a dialog that says "Please press [OK] to resume from last stopped time, or press [CANCEL] to restart" on the D-Link.  If I do nothing for a few seconds, it resumes.  If I press OK, it resumes.  Only if I hit the CANCEL button does it start the movie from the beginning.  The dlink server also has a "status" display which lists, by IP address, the media player, the file it is currently viewing/listening to, the position within the file as a percentage, the status (playing/paused/stopped).

When you're watching a movie (in particular), and you accidently stop midway, it is really nice that it simply resumes from the last stopped position.

Based on the status info provided, I would guess that the server is aware of the IP address of a media server, the file being streamed, the position in the file (at least as a percentage) and whether the streaming is playing, paused or stopped.
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mmlevin

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Re: UPnP questions
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2008, 11:04:09 pm »

Re: parental control.  I tried the View/Access Control.  It prevents the files from showing on the MC (computer) display, the uPnP server as well.  However, I need to be able to decide which media players are restricted (my kids' rooms) and which are not (my room).  Is there some way to do that?
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John Gateley

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Re: UPnP questions
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2008, 11:14:35 pm »

I'll have to look at the resuming. It may be a D-Link extension to UPnP, or a part of the protocol I haven't implemented.

At the moment, there are no additional security features for UPnP.

It's really nice to see this much interest in UPnP though, for a few years it has been languishing. Now it seems like it is becoming popular again.

j

mmlevin

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Re: UPnP questions
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2008, 11:20:19 pm »

A thought re the security.  If you could provide a database variable for the IP address of a device being served by the UPNP server, then I could script the filter in the view.  For example, If IP is 10.10.0.160 and Access Rating is NOT R or NC-17 or Adult.  That would allow rather sophisticated security settings (or other view modifications based upon the IP address of the viewer) without major software changes to MC.  I think.   :)
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eso

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Re: UPnP questions
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2008, 05:12:34 am »

3). Cover art displayed on media player when playing music.  This feature is default on WMP11, etc.  Can't seem to get this working on MC.

Cover art should be displayed if it is stored inside the tags of a file. At least this works on an Archos 605.

It's really nice to see this much interest in UPnP though, for a few years it has been languishing. Now it seems like it is becoming popular again.

John, MC is a really nice UPnP server, I think JRiver should advertise this feature more, maybe through device manufacturers. In particular, the smartlist feature makes it very easy to build dynamic playlists for devices and is something that I've not seen in other servers. And the tight integration of server and library management is another advantage. If now it would only work with the PS3 again...
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sch phase

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Re: UPnP questions
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2008, 05:54:14 am »

Cover art should be displayed if it is stored inside the tags of a file. At least this works on an Archos 605.

......and on an Archos 705  :D
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tls62dk

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Re: UPnP questions
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2008, 10:53:29 am »

I also own a DSM-520. Cover art works with MC12 already. There are limitations though. The DSM-520 will only display cover art up to a certain size (400x400) and it has to be stored inside the file.

TLS
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BartMan01

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Re: UPnP questions
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2008, 11:41:07 am »

A thought re the security.  If you could provide a database variable for the IP address of a device being served by the UPNP server, then I could script the filter in the view.  For example, If IP is 10.10.0.160 and Access Rating is NOT R or NC-17 or Adult.  That would allow rather sophisticated security settings (or other view modifications based upon the IP address of the viewer) without major software changes to MC.  I think.   :)

MAC address filtering would be better, esp if you don't use static IP's.
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mmlevin

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Re: UPnP questions
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2008, 12:02:02 pm »

MAC addresses would be fine, or IP addresses, or any other way of identifying individual media players.  The filtering options would be great:  for example, you could filter videos beyond a certain rating, or audio, or even photos, since you can base it on virtually ANY database field(s).
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DWAnderson

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Re: UPnP questions
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2008, 08:28:22 pm »


John, MC is a really nice UPnP server, I think JRiver should advertise this feature more, maybe through device manufacturers. In particular, the smartlist feature makes it very easy to build dynamic playlists for devices and is something that I've not seen in other servers. And the tight integration of server and library management is another advantage. If now it would only work with the PS3 again...

I agree with this completely. Two things to add:

1. I'd love it if MC worked with the Xbox 360 in the same way that Twonkyvision and Orb do using UPnP or one slightly modified to work with the 360 as well as other UPnP devices.

2. A resume feature would help with listening to podcasts serverd by MC on the Roku Soundbridge.

JimH

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Re: UPnP questions
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2008, 09:12:34 am »

We're commited to improving UPnP support in MC, so we appreciate hearing your thoughts.  John Gateley is on vacation for two weeks.  Bump this again when he's back.  Thanks.
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mmlevin

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UPnP Wish List
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2008, 01:47:22 pm »

Since John Gately is due back, I thought I would bump this thread.

MY wish list for the UPnP server includes:

1).  Parental Controls.  If the system provided a variable for either the IP address, MAC address or some other means of distinguishing different media players, we could script security for different media players.  Example: IF ip=192.168.0.23 and [Access Rating] is {G, PG, PG-13} then. . .
That would allow virtually any kind of control the user wanted to set up.

2).  Resume.  When you STOP playback from a UPnP media player, have MC remember two things for each media player: the last 10 media files played and the last position of the playback.  This information would be kept in the MC database, permanently.  The next time you hit the PLAY on the same media file, from the same media player, MC gives you the option of either "resuming" or starting over.  As to the actual coding for this, I can try to find out more about the DSM-520, because that feature is fully supported if you use the D-Link server.   A wrinkle on this would be as follows:

3).  Follow-me resume:  This feature exists on the EVA8000 player from Netgear.  Here's my idea on a possible way of implementing it in MC, without being player-specific.  Every time a media file is played, MC automatically creates a playlist by media player (again, IP or MAC, possibly with a way of "aliasing" that to a simple English name).  This list contains the name of LAST media file played on each media player, and contains the last played position.  If you're watching I Am Legend in the living room and hit STOP on the living room player, go to the bedroom, select Playlists--> Follow-me, you would get a list that looks something like this:

Living Room: I Am Legend
Kid Room 1: Hunchback of Notre Dame
Kid Room 2: Independence Day
Master Bedroom: Whatever

If you then selected the Living Room: I Am Legend, and hit PLAY, the player would "resume" by getting the "last played position" information from the Living Room and starting the playback, in the Master Bedroom, from there.

4).  Descriptions.  It would be really nice if you could scroll through lists of media files and, when you get to one you are interested in, have a way of viewing a description.  Again, because this may require something in the media player which the player doesn't support, I had a thought on a way to do it that would be generic.  IF the feature is enabled, then whenever you select a title and hit PLAY, MC would not start playing right away.  Instead, it would first run a "preview" page.  This page would stay on the screen until you hit ENTER again, at which point the media file would start playing.  One thought is if the "Description" field is blank, go straight to the media.  If it is not blank, then generate a displayable page as though you were viewing a JPG file (fake out the media player, for maximum flexibility).  This approach would make the feature independent of the particular media player device being used.

5).  Artwork.  I store all my music as WAV files, because I'm really picky and don't like the sound of compressed audio.  I understand that MC will display the artwork via UPnP if the metadata is contained within the file.  It would be nice if the artwork could be displayed when the file does not support internal metadata, like a WAV file.

D-Link has a little applet as part of its server which displays the attached media players, their current state (stopped, paused, playing). the filename currently being played or paused, and the position within the file expressed as time.  If the resume and follow-me resume were implemented, all of that information would (I believe) necessarily be available.  Some means of viewing that information on the MC computer would be useful as well.

I realize that I'm asking for a bunch of things that are not "critical" to the utility of MC, but I believe they are all features that would greatly enhance the utility and are general enough to function with any media player.

I would love to hear thoughts and ideas from other people who, like myself, use the MC server entirely (or primarily) as a UPnP server and have "wish-list" ideas as well.

Again, I think MC is the best server program out there and I am very happy with it.  The addition of the above suggestions would take MC from great to incredible!
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mmlevin

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UPnP questions
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2008, 05:43:50 pm »

Is John Gateley back yet?
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JimH

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Re: UPnP questions
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2008, 06:40:35 pm »

He is.
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mmlevin

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Re: UPnP questions
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2008, 10:13:57 am »

John-
Any thoughts on the suggestions?
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John Gateley

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Re: UPnP questions
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2008, 10:21:16 am »

mmlevin - they are good. I've been thinking about the cover art in particular for a while. I don't know when I'll get to them though -- j

mmlevin

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Re: UPnP questions
« Reply #19 on: March 28, 2008, 10:48:23 am »

New info since my last post 30 minutes ago. . .    ;)

D-Link just released new firmware for the DSM-520, v 1.06.  NOW, the "resume" feature (which previously only worked with their server software or WMP11, suddenly works with MC!  Apparently, it is the PLAYER, not the server, that tracks the "last played" positions.  Amazing. . . .

Also, the new firmware contains a "jump forward 30 seconds" and "jump backwards 15 seconds" function, which will make it much more user friendly.

I'm still hopeful about the security and "follow me" functions when you have time.

Thanks again.
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edbro

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Another UPnP question
« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2008, 10:48:33 am »

Can I have MC use one library for an UPnP source while I load and work on another?  I have my main lossless library as the default, and that is where I spend most of my time. However, I'd like to have UPnP serve my mp3 library (which is also my hh cache) to my Roku Soundbridge.
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John Gateley

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Re: UPnP questions
« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2008, 11:11:25 am »

D-Link just released new firmware for the DSM-520, v 1.06.  NOW, the "resume" feature (which previously only worked with their server software or WMP11, suddenly works with MC!  Apparently, it is the PLAYER, not the server, that tracks the "last played" positions.  Amazing. . . .

Cool, that was easy :)

j

John Gateley

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Re: Another UPnP question
« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2008, 11:12:04 am »

Can I have MC use one library for an UPnP source while I load and work on another?  I have my main lossless library as the default, and that is where I spend most of my time. However, I'd like to have UPnP serve my mp3 library (which is also my hh cache) to my Roku Soundbridge.

No, Media Center only serves the currently loaded library.

j

robydago

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Re: Another UPnP question
« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2008, 11:52:07 am »

No, Media Center only serves the currently loaded library.

but what if ebro runs two instances of MC and only one of them has UPnP on?

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John Gateley

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Re: UPnP questions
« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2008, 01:00:50 pm »

Nice thought, Robydago... -- j

mmlevin

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UPnP BUG report
« Reply #25 on: April 05, 2008, 01:10:19 pm »

I've been noticing a bug when displaying titles on my DSM-520 using MC12 (approximately the last 30+ releases).  I couldn't quite put my finger on it, so finally I decided to take the time to set up a test.  Here is what I did and what I found.

I created a directory containing files named 00.jpg through 99.jpg.  I have no other jpg media in my library (just movies and audio).  I imported the directory and created a playlist which sorts the files alphabetically, 00 - 99.  I go to my DSM-520, select that playlist, and then "page down" and look at what is displayed.  The DSM-520 displays pages of six files.  I should see pages listing 0-5, 6-11, 12-17, 18-23, 24-39, 30-35, 36-41, 42-47, 48-53, 54-59, 60-65, 66-71, 72-77, 78-83, 84-89, 90-95, and (a short page) 96-99.  There are two pages that are displayed incorrectly.  The page that should display 36-40, instead displays 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 42 (skipping 41) and the page that should display 78-83 instead displays 78, 79, 60, 62, 63, 64.

If you scroll down past the 78-83 page, then scroll up, it displays correctly subsequently.  The 36-41 page, on the other hand, continues to display incorrectly.

I noticed this with just regular titles, but couldn't quite put my finger on exactly where the glitches were until I set up the above test.  This same result occurs in audio, video and picture smartlists.  I haven't tested whether it occurs in (dumb) playlists, because I don't really use them.

I am curious as to whether other people have experienced this glitch.  FYI, I have 5 DSM-520 units.  They all behave identically, through 3 different versions of their firmware.  This problem is not present when using WMP11 or the D-Link server, so I think the problem is in MC.

Other than the previously requested features, this is one of the (very few) shortcomings of MC12.  I hope you can solve this one soon, because the result is that certain movies are "hidden" as a result, and the only way to locate them is to use a different smartlist in which they are sorted differently.
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John Gateley

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Re: UPnP questions
« Reply #26 on: April 08, 2008, 09:33:48 am »

Which version of MC are you using? Please post your system info...

j

mmlevin

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Re: UPnP questions
« Reply #27 on: April 10, 2008, 01:26:26 am »

I'm running MC12 . 0 . 451, but this problem has been present since I first started, around version 12.0.421.  I'm not sure what system info you wanted me to post.  If I missed something, let me know and I will post it:

OS Name   Microsoft Windows XP Professional
Version   5.1.2600 Service Pack 2 Build 2600
System Manufacturer   INTEL_
System Model   D845GVFN
System Type   X86-based PC
Processor   x86 Family 15 Model 2 Stepping 4 GenuineIntel ~1999 Mhz
BIOS Version/Date   Intel Corp. FN84510A.86A.0003.P01.0406141932, 6/14/2004
SMBIOS Version   2.3
Hardware Abstraction Layer   Version = "5.1.2600.2180 (xpsp_sp2_rtm.040803-2158)"
Total Physical Memory   1,024.00 MB
Available Physical Memory   104.02 MB
Total Virtual Memory   2.00 GB
Available Virtual Memory   1.96 GB
Page File Space   2.39 GB
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ThoBar

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Re: UPnP questions
« Reply #28 on: April 10, 2008, 02:19:11 am »

Quote
If I missed something, let me know and I will post it:

Help > System Info

(Gives more MC specific info)
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John Gateley

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Re: UPnP questions
« Reply #29 on: April 10, 2008, 03:07:20 pm »

mmlevin: sorry, this is a D-Link bug. I tried with a DSM-320, no problem. I tried with a DSM-520, and get the problem. I checked the network traffic, and I'm sending the correct information. The D-Link isn't interpreting it correctly.

j

mmlevin

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Re: UPnP questions
« Reply #30 on: April 10, 2008, 04:55:27 pm »

Quote
mmlevin: sorry, this is a D-Link bug. I tried with a DSM-320, no problem. I tried with a DSM-520, and get the problem. I checked the network traffic, and I'm sending the correct information. The D-Link isn't interpreting it correctly.

I will run this same test using the D-Link server and WMP11, to verify.  My recollection is that it did not happen with those programs.  Which begs the question, is it a "bug" in the DSM-520, or is it a compatibility issue?  If the former, I need to get on the D-Link forum and complain to them.  If the latter, identifying the actual cause might allow for a change in the UPnP server configuration, or some such.  I'll report back as soon as I've had a chance to check it out.
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John Gateley

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Re: UPnP questions
« Reply #31 on: April 10, 2008, 05:51:11 pm »

I will run this same test using the D-Link server and WMP11, to verify.  My recollection is that it did not happen with those programs.  Which begs the question, is it a "bug" in the DSM-520, or is it a compatibility issue?  If the former, I need to get on the D-Link forum and complain to them.  If the latter, identifying the actual cause might allow for a change in the UPnP server configuration, or some such.  I'll report back as soon as I've had a chance to check it out.

Definite bug: The DSM-320 on the same info worked fine. Also, I checked: the 520 actually asks for 40 tracks at a time, and when it asks for the second 40, the UPnP server really gives it the second 40. Not sure why it would work with the other programs and not with ours.

j

mmlevin

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UPnP questions
« Reply #32 on: April 11, 2008, 11:17:34 am »

Quote
Definite bug: The DSM-320 on the same info worked fine. Also, I checked: the 520 actually asks for 40 tracks at a time, and when it asks for the second 40, the UPnP server really gives it the second 40. Not sure why it would work with the other programs and not with ours.

YUP!  I ran the same test on the D-Link server, and it exhibits the identical behavior.  Thanks.  I'm bringing this issue to D-Link, as it most certainly is a firmware bug in the DSM-520.

In the words of (the late) Emily Latella:  "Oh, that's very different. . .   Never mind. . ."

On another note, any thoughts on when you might be able to add some capability vis-a-vis parental controls?
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leezer3

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Re: UPnP questions
« Reply #33 on: April 11, 2008, 01:54:05 pm »

Just rambling onwards on the parental controls topic per IP, this could be useful in other scenarios, although I couldn't comment on a  precise way to implement this-
I have 3 UPNP devices- PS3, Linux box upstairs and XBMC. Each of these supports different types of files but not others. It'd be nice if I could set it so the different devices only see the files that they can play, as opposed to having to wade through the incompatible stuff, as MC simply sends the whole list :)

Cheers

-Leezer-
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mmlevin

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Re: UPnP questions
« Reply #34 on: April 11, 2008, 07:52:44 pm »

Quote
Just rambling onwards on the parental controls topic per IP, this could be useful in other scenarios, although I couldn't comment on a  precise way to implement this-
I have 3 UPNP devices- PS3, Linux box upstairs and XBMC. Each of these supports different types of files but not others. It'd be nice if I could set it so the different devices only see the files that they can play, as opposed to having to wade through the incompatible stuff, as MC simply sends the whole list

My thought is to add support for a variable (IP or MAC, or whatever is easiest) which could become part of the definition of a smartlist.  For example, if your PS3 is IP 1.2.3.4, Linux box is 1.2.3.5, XBMC is 1.2.3.6, the idea would be to create a smartlist which could incorporate that variable as one of its search criteria, so that the smartlist is only visible to a UPnP device which satisfies the criteria.  It would work for different devices (your need), parental controls (my need), etc.  Another variable which could be useful in this way is "time of day," such that you could alter the contents of smartlists based upon the time.

Just a thought. . .
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mmlevin

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Re: UPnP questions
« Reply #35 on: April 30, 2008, 10:03:21 am »

Quote
Definite bug: The DSM-320 on the same info worked fine. Also, I checked: the 520 actually asks for 40 tracks at a time, and when it asks for the second 40, the UPnP server really gives it the second 40.

John (and UPnP users)-

I thought I would share with you D-Link's ultimate reply, after initially blowing off the problem as being in the server:

Date of Reply: 4/29/2008
Products: DSM-520
Operating System: Windows XP Pro

MICHAEL

Thank you for you input and this bug has been acknowledged by the engineers after reporting. The next  firmware will include a fix to resolve this problem. Thank you for being patience.


That's me.  Patience. . . .
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John Gateley

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Re: UPnP questions
« Reply #36 on: April 30, 2008, 10:25:43 am »

Cool! Nice going Patience.... :)

j

brossmac

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Re: UPnP questions
« Reply #37 on: May 01, 2008, 07:44:14 pm »

I just wish I could get the UPNP functionality to work with my Sony NAS-CZ1.  It finds the server but when it tries to load the database, it gets a "NO ALBUM FOUND" error.

I know the problem is with Sony, but I would love to ditch their M-crew server.
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John Gateley

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Re: UPnP questions
« Reply #38 on: May 01, 2008, 09:59:09 pm »

Have we talked about this before? I don't remember...

Can you give me more details - what settings you are using, what the UPnP status page is showing...

j

mmlevin

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Re: UPnP questions
« Reply #39 on: May 04, 2008, 04:14:01 pm »

Any thought about when you might tackle adding variables for MAC or IP address to the UPnP server??

I thought of another really cool way of setting things up.  I have TVs that are 4:3 and others that are 16:9.  I have most of the moview in 16:9 format, but some are (optionally) available as 4:3.  With the ability to screen the smartlist based on IP or MAC, the 4:3 TVs would only see the content that is 4:3 (or unavailable as 4:3), whereas the 16:9 units would see only the content that is 16:9 (or unavailable as 16:9).  That would mean I wouldn't have to see multiple listings, like "Bugs Life [WS] and Bugs Life [FS]".  Just a thought. . .
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PNCD

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Re: UPnP questions
« Reply #40 on: May 08, 2008, 10:02:17 am »

John.
While MC12 is a good UPnP server could you also consider making it a UPnP control point so that output can be streamed to designated UpnP devices?
I am anticipating arrival of an Olive Melody 2 and Linn Sneaky Music DS this month to try them out.  The Melody is, like most UPnP players, a control point as well as renderer.  The Sneaky is only a renderer.  I would rather use the MC12 interface to direct streams to these devices on the network.
There is a critical dearth of good PC-based UPnP control point interfaces.
Thanks.
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John Gateley

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Re: UPnP questions
« Reply #41 on: May 08, 2008, 11:08:49 am »

mmlevin - no idea yet...

PNCD - yes, I'd like to make it a control point as well, someday.

j

PNCD

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Re: UPnP questions
« Reply #42 on: May 09, 2008, 10:11:27 am »

John
Is it complicated to do?  I am willing to put a reasonable financial support behind my interst if that makes any difference.
I am surprised by the absence of solutions.
Peter
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John Gateley

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Re: UPnP questions
« Reply #43 on: May 09, 2008, 10:26:25 am »

Not complicated - but lengthy, and I've got a lot of other things going on as well as UPnP... I'll let JimH address the financial stuff.

j

JimH

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Re: UPnP questions
« Reply #44 on: May 09, 2008, 10:28:55 am »

John
Is it complicated to do?  I am willing to put a reasonable financial support behind my interst if that makes any difference.
I think it would cost us at least $10,000.
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mmlevin

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Bump: UPnP questions
« Reply #45 on: June 03, 2008, 01:03:51 pm »

I haven't heard anything about UPnP plans for a while.  Thought I would bump this.
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John Gateley

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Re: UPnP questions
« Reply #46 on: June 03, 2008, 02:01:14 pm »

Hi mmlevin - nothing new to add as of yet. Keep bumping -- j

mmlevin

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Re: UPnP questions
« Reply #47 on: June 21, 2008, 05:06:59 pm »

Bump. . .
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Rob L

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Re: UPnP questions
« Reply #48 on: June 23, 2008, 05:34:12 pm »

for me the thing that stops me using the UPnP server in MC is the fact that it doesn't support DRM...

If you could just work out how to sort that out, I'd ditch the built in Windows one and switch to using MC and get my ability to browse how I want back again, rather than having to put up with the crappy structure windows gives you!
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JimH

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Re: UPnP questions
« Reply #49 on: June 23, 2008, 05:36:05 pm »

I'm surprised MS does.  What are you streaming to?

Our UPnP server should be able to do anything anyone else's can.
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