Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

No (not under any circumstances)

4 (7.8%)

Only if an option can turn it off

37 (72.5%)

Not a big deal either way

6 (11.8%)

Yes (doesn't need an option)

4 (7.8%)

Total Members Voted: 49

[Omni]

8. Changed: When manually changing cover art, the cover art will be submitted to YADB.
9. Changed: Removed the option for manually submitting cover art.

Is there an option to disable this "phone home" feature?

[JimH]

Is there an option to disable this "phone home" feature?

There was a thread here on this a week or two ago.   Could we talk about it next week?

Nice to see you around the old place.

[newsposter]

Is there an option to disable this "phone home" feature?

'generally speaking' phone-home features should be user-selectable.

[JimH]

'generally speaking' phone-home features should be user-selectable.

Right.

[JimH]

Here's where we stand.

YADB is our source for meta-data (cover art, album, artist, track info, etc.).

When you rip a disc, we access the YADB database to see if we can find meta-data for you.  Usually it works. 

We'd like to improve it, and we'd like to keep the process simple, so we made a change recently that automatically adds any meta-data you've entered for a disc.  MC will upload anything you enter, but it's smart about what it downloads for you.  It now watches what other people upload and begins to weed out (for example) cover art that isn't right or is less than optimal.

The question that has been raised is quite valid (for privacy reasons).  No question.  But we're faced with adding a lot of messaging about what you're sharing.  We'll do it if you believe it's important.  We think that the downside will be that the quality of the meta-data will be diminished.

[AoXoMoXoA]

Makes alot of sense to me, and now that you ask I'd be glad to submit my data   

[Omni]

The question that has been raised is quite valid (for privacy reasons).  No question.  But we're faced with adding a lot of messaging about what you're sharing.  We'll do it if you believe it's important.  We think that the downside will be that the quality of the meta-data will be diminished.

I don't have a problem (in principle) with you doing this.  I don't even have a problem if you make it an "option" and enable it by default (guaranteeing that probably 80-90% of your userbase would be unaware of what's going on).

I just feel that it needs to be a feature that I can opt out of if I so choose to.  I just don't like "Big Brother" in any form, no matter how benign or altruistic they are, watching over me without my consent.

[johnnyboy]

+1 for optional.

Submitting all cover art is dangerous as it means that if someone has a file they call 'my home porno with my wife' for instance - their cover art could be retrieved by someone else who used the same file name and they could see a private picture of me and the misses (if she existed that is). With popular files this wouldn't be likely as there will be lots of cover art options, but the more random and non-popular the file gets, the higher the odds of this happening become.
Automatically submitting all images someone assigns as cover art is VERY dangerous and I'm pretty sure is lining you up for a court appearance at some later date by that 1 in a million person who has the above type situation arise.

[ADDiCT]

The transmission of data to JRiver, whatever type of data that may be, without having the option to disable that feature is unacceptable. IANAL, but i believe this kind of "data handling" is also illegal in a lot of countries. I'd rather have this an "Opt In" instead of an "Opt out" type functionality, too (= disabled by default). To be honest, i'm very suprised that we have to talk about "phoning home" features again. I remember a discussion about that topic here on Interact a long time ago, which lead to a lot of bad blood - JRiver should know better.

If JRiver is concerned about the quality of YADB data, why not think about how to motivate "dedicated data submitters"? Like, giving out free MC licenses, or creating some kind of bonus program, where users can win multimedia hardware or similar stuff.

MC will upload anything you enter, but it's smart about what it downloads for you.

Does this refer to CD ripping, or to data input in general? What i mean is, will MC submit data to JRiver when i enter or change metadata for tracks that are already in my MC database?

But we're faced with adding a lot of messaging about what you're sharing.

I don't quite understand the meaning of that statement. Could you explain this a little?

And, finally:

We think that the downside will be that the quality of the meta-data will be diminished.

Sorry to say that, but that's JRiver's problem, not ours. Many MC user are already contributing a lot to JRiver's success, by giving free technical support on Interact, and being unpaid beta testers. I think JRiver should be very, very happy about that level of support from the userbase they already have, instead of thinking about new ways of shifting workload (= the maintenance of YADB data) to the users.

[Matt]

You can disable online metadata in:
Options > General > Advanced > Enable online metadata (lookup and submit)

[JimH]

I just added a poll to try to get a better sense of what people want.

I just don't like "Big Brother" in any form, no matter how benign or altruistic they are, watching over me without my consent.

I don't disagree with you, but I think the generally accepted standard for this may have moved a little in the last few years.  I think it's now probably OK to expect that a user will "give" some information whenever they are "getting", provided the information isn't used to profile the user or target them for another purpose (ads, for example).

In the case of the metadata that we're discussing here, we treat the data anonymously.  The source is not part of the database entry, so nobody knows where the metadata came from.  Our method for determining the quality is only based on "voting" -- multiple users uploading the same data.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

[jgreen]

I have complete confidence in J River's handling of cover art data uploaded from me.  At the same time, my firewall settings do not normally allow programs to access the internet without manual approval.  So I would like the option to turn on or off so that I am saved extra steps of doing this globally for MC in my firewall.

Personally, I love options, and I don't have any issue with this feature enabled by default. 

[Alex B]

"Only if an option can turn it off" and if the manual options are available separately for each type of submission:

- Audio CD submission. I may want to reinsert a CD, perhaps fix or add info and submit only when I am finished (and if I use my laptop I may not be connected to Internet all the time).

- Individual track info submission. Naturally it should be up to the users when they consider that the tags are correct and when they want to submit data - perhaps in big chunks. (This works correctly now.)

- Cover art submission. Here is what I posted in another thread:

"MC 12.0.452:
 8. Changed: When manually changing cover art, the cover art will be submitted to YADB.
 9. Changed: Removed the option for manually submitting cover art."


So the only option is immediate automatic submission. It'll probably be a nice feature for many situations, but it really shouldn't be the only option.

1. You should not force users to upload their personal image files. Possibly that is not even legal and in any case some users are not going to like that. *

2. You should allow the users upload when they prefer.

3. If MC created cover art links automatically on import (or detected embedded cover art) the user cannot submit cover art afterwards  OR  if the automatic submission works also on import stage you are starting a big upload queue and causing lots of internet traffic.

4. It is not possible to submit cover art from an old library.

5. The users may have personal cover art. You might remember the posts about generic "no cover art" images. For example, I have a few genre specific generic images which I have used with tracks that don't have official cover art yet (or never will have).

*The global option for disabling all YADB access is not a very good solution if the user only wants to control the image file submissions.

I would also like to be sure that my submission was successful and accepted. Currently only the "Submit track info to YADB" tool provides feedback.

[JimH]

In these uncertain times, I am reminded of Ken Kesey's comment:

"You're either on the bus, or you're off."

[JimH]

Snapshot of the poll:

10 votes
Option: 70%
No: 10%
No big deal: 20%

I'm guessing this will change.

[rjm]

My experience with the quality of automatic tagging has been poor. I prefer to go to a high quality site like AMG where I know the information is accurate and get my tags manually.

The focus of YADB should be on quality rather than quantity. I think this implies that the process of submitting should be manual. If someone takes the time to create perfect tags they should have the ability to manually submit these tags with some confirmation prompts that let the user know that YADB is only interested in accurate information. If the submitted data differs from previously submitted data the user should be shown the differences and be asked to select the correct version, and if they find an error in their proposed submission should be able to cancel their submission and use the correct version.

[John Gateley]

The focus of YADB should be on quality rather than quantity. I think this implies that the process of submitting should be manual.

I've been doing a lot of work lately to derive quality from quantity. Manual submission doesn't work. There's way too much data and way too much potential for errors even for careful taggers. However, from quantity, I've been creating quality, through YADB's voting mechanism. It's constantly getting better.

j

[gappie]

i always hate it when programms go online without me saying anything about it. but that seems to be happening so often nowadays. with mc i atleast know what it does when it goes online, and im fine with that.
the only thing that worries me, is that my main media pc has no connection to the internet. will mc still try to connect. will it slow things down..
i like an option. i rip and tag on a pc with internet connection and i will leave the option on, but i think it looks good when there is an option to disable it. enabled as standard is fine with me.

edit:
and yes, i think yadb is getting better and better. just hope that one day we could get acces to seperate items. like just getting the genres for the songs choosen..

keep up the good work

[lepa]

I really want to choose what I want to share. Post from Alex B sums my opinion too, so no need to repeat it.

[JimH]

I really want to choose what I want to share. Post from Alex B sums my opinion too, so no need to repeat it.

Do you think it's reasonable if we ask you to give if you expect to get?

In other words, the option to "opt out" right now lets you prevent any giving, but it also prevents any getting.

It means that automatic cover art retrieval and other metadata lookups won't work.

We appreciate the chance to discuss this as gentlemen/ladies.  Thanks.

[lepa]

Do you think it's reasonable if we ask you to give if you expect to get?

In other words, the option to "opt out" right now lets you prevent any giving, but it also prevents any getting.

It means that automatic cover art retrieval and other metadata lookups won't work.

We appreciate the chance to discuss this as gentlemen/ladies.  Thanks.

To be honest I've been giving more than getting. I will choose not to give/get if the other option is
all automatic. I would like it to be as it was, when I could choose what and when to give and get. Just my modest opinion.

[rjm]

I've been doing a lot of work lately to derive quality from quantity. Manual submission doesn't work. There's way too much data and way too much potential for errors even for careful taggers. However, from quantity, I've been creating quality, through YADB's voting mechanism. It's constantly getting better.

j

Thanks. I know you have been working hard on quality. You can steeply discount my comments because I plan to continue to get my tags from sources that are known to be accurate. It never ceases to amaze me what a mess 99.9% of net content is. Even pro podcasters do not know how to tag their files before posting them.

[JimH]

Thanks for whatever you've been giving.

[jack wallstreet]

I agree with the people who say it should not be automatic/no choice for a variety of reasons.  Users should have the option of not sending info.

[KingSparta]

I Think If It Is Dial-up That It Should Not Force A User To Give, No Matter What.

If The User Has A High Speed Connection This Should Not Matter (In Regards To Speed)

Also

There Maybe Some Users Who May Have Adult Material On there Media Center Setup, And they may Wish Not to Share This With The Rest Of The World. More So If Is The Teacher Or Nurse Spanking A 56 Year old Man.

There Should be A Way If the User Wants to Opt in That They Could Mark Some Files Not To Share  With The World.

And No I Don't Have A Nurse Spanking Me, I Did however have a candy striper want to give me a rub down but I was 10 years old, And Very sick.

[Omni]

I don't disagree with you, but I think the generally accepted standard for this may have moved a little in the last few years.  I think it's now probably OK to expect that a user will "give" some information whenever they are "getting", provided the information isn't used to profile the user or target them for another purpose (ads, for example).

Do you think it's reasonable if we ask you to give if you expect to get?

Well, I never fetch cover art from YABB (or whatever you call it) or from anywhere else for that matter: I always scan in and process (resize, crop, color correction, etc.) my own cover art.  (That's why you see me so irked in other threads about MC constantly losing it as I put a lot of work into it, but that's another thread. )

But admittedly, I guess I have used YABB to fetch the Album and Track names to use as starting point. I always end up having to correct things--spelling, casing, etc.--but it is a time saver.  I suppose that is the point of this new feature: a means of getting more data so you can further perfect it.

Well, given the all or nothing choice you are proposing, I would still choose to disable all look-ups rather than allowing MC to transmit my data without my consent.

You can disable online metadata in:
Options > General > Advanced > Enable online metadata (lookup and submit)

And there you go.  That's all I was originally asking.  The "all or nothing" option is already present, so I guess now the debate is whether or not to split it:  always allow lookups but make submission optional.

[Doof]

Honestly, I pretty much gave up on trusting YADB (or CDDB or freeDB) quite a while ago. Even if the online service finds something, I still have to verify it by hand to make sure it's correct. I've never turned off the online lookup stuff, but the only thing that I look up is CD info when I put a CD in. Even then, I find I have to hand enter it all anyway. It amazes me how difficult it is for some people to just type in what they see on the CD. It amazes me even more that even though they can't be bothered to insure accuracy, they still feel the need to upload it to YADB. Whenever I have to correct a CD lookup, I always submit my changes. Whether they get used or not... I have no idea.

I gave up on cover art lookup because it seemed to rarely get it right, and what it did get wasn't a high enough quality to suit me. So I turned to Google Images and most recently, Album Art Downloader.

And doing an online lookup for an individual track or a bunch of tracks? Forget it. I have no idea WHICH fields doing this is going to replace. If the only thing I want is a date, then the last thing I want is MC fetching a bunch of incorrect data from YADB and replacing all the tags that I knew were right before doing the lookup. Sure I can Undo the changes, but that requires me to look at almost every tag to make sure it didn't overwrite something I didn't want it to. Maybe if it gave me the option to select which fields to fetch data for, or gave me someway to review the proposed changes then I'd use it, but as it is now, no way.

With all that said, since I'm so meticulous about my collection, I figure if somebody else can use the data I've collected, go for it. I guess I just wish I knew if this was only happening with audio files or with images, videos, and documents as well.

It would also be nice to know what happens to the data once YADB has it. If I manually change cover art and MC automatically uploads it to YADB, how do other people get to use it? It's a voting system. I get that. But what if MC returns 500x500 art, and I scan in a 1200x1200 copy and upload it. According the tallies, the 500x500 has a bunch of votes for it because everybody's used it. But mine has no votes because it's brand new. If I later do a cover art lookup for that album, which art is MC going to deliver?

[newsposter]

A general statement of the methodology and rationale behind the data collection would be nice.  Might even give JR a leg up on the competetion for being so open to it's users and responsive to privacy concerns.

Also, some kind of assurance that all YADB-uploaded data is truly anonymous and how that anonomity is guaranteed would also be a Good Thing.

Maybe break down the level of involvement a user wants to have with YADB like this:

a) download-only (this is 'leaching' IMHO)
b) download with upload of user-corrected data
c) download with upload of new user generated data
d) download with a combination of b) and c) (full involvement)

[Matt]

There are two discussions here.

The first is if the system should be automatic, manual, opt-in, opt-out, etc.  All I have to say about this is that we're listening and that we try hard to be the good guy.  There's no sneaky monkey business -- we're just trying to make a nice metadata experience.

The second discussion is about quality of data.  As Doof stated, user submitted data can often be bad.  In fact, it can be amazingly creative in its badness.  This is what has prompted the recent YADB changes.  The goal is to build a system where good data floats to the top so that with use, the system improves instead of degredates. 

The mechanics look a little like this:

• Get data without making a user jump through any hoops
• If no data or bad data is found, assume some users will fix it
• If enough users fix the same data, switch to using the changed version

This a departure from the old system in several ways:

• We used to _force_ data entry if no data was found -- irritating users and resulting in lots more bad data
• Submission was a manual process, so very few things were ever fixed
• There was no voting, so different versions of the same CD or art would make a mess

The new system is better.  For it to work, we need it to be easy to use (read not lots of scary popup messages) and to get enough use so bad data gets fixed.

[Frobozz]

And there you go.  That's all I was originally asking.  The "all or nothing" option is already present, so I guess now the debate is whether or not to split it:  always allow lookups but make submission optional.

Seems like that would cover it.  Make two options:
Enable online metadata lookup
Enable online metadata submit

The only other issue would be whether lookups or submits are anonymous.  It is the issue of anonymity that is more at the heart of any privacy concerns.  I have no idea whether YADB lookups or submits are in any way anonymous (I also haven't bothered to look at any privacy policy or other documentation on the matter cause I'm not that much concerned about that level of privacy).  If YADB is anonymous then say so.  If not then give an option similar to how WMP gives an option to send or not send a unique player ID cookie.

I'm a newish user of Media Center.  Started using it about 6 months ago.  I know very little about YADB other than what is in the Wiki and a little bit from recent posts about it.

I'm still stuck in my old workflow methods from before I started using MC12.  I still use EAC or dBpoweramp for ripping and initial tagging.  Then a review or manual update of the cover art using mp3tag along with a manual entering of conductor and composer for my classical CDs.  So admittedly, I haven't interacted much with YADB much other than trying it out on a few CDs or manually select tracks to try to find better cover art.

[leezer3]

Really not going to work too well IMHO. Every user has their own tagging conventions (Simple variations are Artist; First name or last name at the start, track numbering for multiple disks; All continious numbers, or number per disk). You'll get some benefit, as this should eliminate some of the more common mistags and typos in song/ artist names, but overall I strongly have to be convinced.

As a side-note, you won't really want a lot of my more personalised tags 

Cheers

-Leezer-

[gappie]

You can disable online metadata in:
Options > General > Advanced > Enable online metadata (lookup and submit)

i actually think this is fair enough. didnt know that option. guess it is new. 
voted wrong then.. a well.

And doing an online lookup for an individual track or a bunch of tracks? Forget it. I have no idea WHICH fields doing this is going to replace. If the only thing I want is a date, then the last thing I want is MC fetching a bunch of incorrect data from YADB and replacing all the tags that I knew were right before doing the lookup. Sure I can Undo the changes, but that requires me to look at almost every tag to make sure it didn't overwrite something I didn't want it to. Maybe if it gave me the option to select which fields to fetch data for, or gave me someway to review the proposed changes then I'd use it, but as it is now, no way.

now that would be something.. 

[gappie]

Really not going to work too well IMHO. Every user has their own tagging conventions (Simple variations are Artist; First name or last name at the start, track numbering for multiple disks; All continious numbers, or number per disk). You'll get some benefit, as this should eliminate some of the more common mistags and typos in song/ artist names, but overall I strongly have to be convinced.

As a side-note, you won't really want a lot of my more personalised tags 

Cheers

-Leezer-

i actually think that most users tag there music fairly the same, and yadb only takes some standard tags. its only the freaks (like me?) that have there own system. when it is really different from what most people use it will just disappear in the crowd.

[)p(]

Option is ok, but it should be off by default!

I really hate these phone home things if I have not given permission for them myself. I don't like the fact that a program assumes I am ok with it.

peter

[dcwebman]

I'm not sure why it seems like some people are talking all or nothing. I was going to post almost exactly what Alex B did, but he said it better than I can.
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=45648.msg312875#msg312875

Unless YADB is short on database/server space, I'm not sure why there are not multiple choices given for tracks, cover art, etc. Other programs do this and you get to choose the one that's correct. That would also add to your voting. If you want to make it easier for people, then just present the most popular item first along with the rest, and since a lot of people just take the defaults, they'll take the first and most common one. But at least that won't leave everybody out by not giving them a choice as to something else.

[Alex B]

Just to clarify what I said before.

I don't have a problem with "phoning home". I have gladly submitted data of my CDs, individual tracks and recently also my cover art files. However, I want to control when I submit and what data I submit.

Mostly it is Ok to submit CD info when the ripping dialog window is open, but sometimes that may not the desired behavior, for example:
- the Internet connection may not be available
- the CD may be a burned personal compilation or it may contain privately recorded audio (the info would be useless to others)
- tagging is not finished yet (e.g. I may fix or add some of the common tags like genre or year, but leave the more tedious track names to some other time)
If I have understood correctly this mostly works fine as it is now. MC is supposed to submit changed CD data automatically and there is a right-click option for the manual submission. However, I am always unsure about when exactly the submission happens and if it was successful. That's why I always end up using the manual submission after ripping. Though, also the manual submission does not provide any kind of progress indication and confirmation after a successful submission.

Individual track info submission is fine as it is now. I don't think anyone would like to send track info on each tag change. It is essential that the information is verified before an intentional submission. In addition, the fingerprint calculation is a CPU intensive task and the user needs to have control when it is done (or would you like to do that automatically for 10000 tracks when you happen to clean your genre tags?).

What this thread is mostly about is the cover art submission. The automatic system works only when cover art is manually changed or added. This is not good enough. It is impossible to manually start the cover submission process. It should be possible to submit hundreds or thousands of image files when MC and the Internet connection are not needed for other tasks. As others and I have said, it is also possible that newly linked cover art is not the original art. In addition to using generic "no cover" images I have a few times created a temporary library that has personal images associated with audio tracks. I don't think it would be appropriate to accidentally send the family album pictures that I have linked with certain songs for displaying them at a birthday party. I really would like to see a separate option for the automatic cover art submission that is independent from the other YADB tasks and naturally have the manual submission feature reinstated.

[MrHaugen]

I agree that it should not do submission as default, but I also understand that this would increase quality in the YADB database as more people would submit.
Would it not be the best to have a yes (recommended) / no question during install? The default would be yes (recommended) but a no would turn the submission off.

I for one would like to have them off. I only retrieve meta data through Tag&rename, and I would like to upload the metadata and cover art in huge chunks when I know I have the meta data correct.
It would be no good if the cd or the single tracks is uploaded during tagging in any way. Don't want to be giving out half correct data.

For normal people though, I belive the atomatic setup would be the best.

[JimH]

Would it not be the best to have a yes (recommended) / no question during install? The default would be yes (recommended) but a no would turn the submission off.

We think that the first few minutes that someone uses a program are very important in determining what they think about it.  It isn't a great time to give them a question like this:

"JRiver Media Center can improve your experience by retrieving meta-data for you.  This includes cover art, track names, album, and artist names.  Should we do that automatically?  (You can change this later in MC's options)."

Yes/No

and then:

"You can help improve this experience for others by letting MC add your metadata whenever you add it manually.  Would that be OK?"

Yes/No/Ask me each time

[ADDiCT]

So, Jim, do you really think users will like it better when they find out after a while that MC is transferring data over the internet? If the option is enabled by default, most of the new users won't notice that for a while. MC is so full of features that even many experienced user's won't be aware of the data transmission option(s). Now, guess what will happen when a new user learns about "phoning home" by accident, maybe because his PFW alerts him or something...

[robydago]

We think that the first few minutes that someone uses a program are very important in determining what they think about it.  It isn't a great time to give them a question like this:

"JRiver Media Center can improve your experience by retrieving meta-data for you.  This includes cover art, track names, album, and artist names.  Should we do that automatically?  (You can change this later in MC's options)."

Yes/No

and then:

"You can help improve this experience for others by letting MC add your metadata whenever you add it manually.  Would that be OK?"

Yes/No/Ask me each time

what about a small footnote in one of the setup's' dialog boxes just stating something like:

"by default some operations performed by MC can send data over the internet, if you want to disable this option, run MC and go to tools > options > etc."

[JimH]

"Starting to import media now...but first we need to know what you want to do about meta-data."

"JRiver Media Center can improve your experience by retrieving meta-data for you.  This includes cover art, track names, album, and artist names.  Should we do that automatically?  (You can change this later in MC's options)."

Yes/No

and then:

"You can help improve this experience for others by letting MC add your metadata whenever you add it manually.  Would that be OK?"

Yes/No/Ask me each time

We're going to add this message as a pop-up when MC first wants to connect (probably part of import).

Thanks for your feedback.

[JimH]

In build 459, you will be able to turn on or off meta-data submission and retrieval.  It's part of the Custom install process and it's in options/general/advanced.  The default is on for both.

The license was changed from this:

9. ONLINE SERVICES.  JRiver, its affiliates and suppliers may provide online services for use with the PRODUCT. JRiver may change or cancel those services at any time. In order to use these interactive services, you will need to register and obtain log-in credentials, such as a User ID. You must agree to abide by the terms and conditions that may apply to any interactive online service that you elect to use with the PRODUCT.

to this:

9. ONLINE SERVICES.  JRiver, its affiliates and suppliers may provide online services for use with the PRODUCT. JRiver may change or cancel those services at any time. In order to use these interactive services, you may need to register and obtain log-in credentials, such as a User ID.  Some services may require submission of usage data or meta-data such as track titles. [added bold is only here on Interact]

I imagine that some people still won't be happy with this arrangement, but unless we hear new, unsolicited complaints about this, we're sticking with it.

[MrC]

...usage data...

Hmmm... this seems an overly broad term.  Like what music I listen to, movies I watch, CDs/DVDs I own, how often I start/use MC?

[ADDiCT]

Yeah, "usage data or meta data" sounds quite suspicious, IMHO. Honestly, i can't understand this "Ad Hoc"-type handling of a very sensitive topic. If we're talking about "usage data" like i understand the term, then we're talking about _much_ more than the submission of cover art, or meta data. And i'm still pretty sure that there are a lot of legal implications that have to be considered. An EULA or a license will be partially or completely invalid if it contains statements that are against the law, after all.

[JimH]

Hmmm... this seems an overly broad term.  Like what music I listen to

No.

movies I watch

No.

CDs/DVDs I own

No.

how often I start/use MC?

Yes.  When MC starts, if it accesses the start page, we know that.  We don't know who you are.  It's the same with any browser that visits any page on the Internet.

[JimH]

i can't understand this "Ad Hoc"-type handling of a very sensitive topic.

What exactly is Ad Hoc about it?  We're telling you what we do, asking your advice, trying to change to get closer to your expectations.

Would you like a seat on our design review committee?  We meet every Tuesday after work at McGinty's, the local pub around the corner.  Bring your own darts.

[MrC]

I think the point here was that privacy and disclosure standards require pointing out *specifically* what will be collected, and what specifically what won't, how information will be used, and how it won't, etc.

For example: http://www.ibm.com/privacy/details/us/en/

[ and by the way, i accidentally voted for "No (not under any circumstances)", but meant "Only if an option can turn it off". ]

[Matt]

When MC starts, if it accesses the start page, we know that.  We don't know who you are.  It's the same with any browser that visits any page on the Internet.

Actually the start page is not an internet page.  It is a local page.

[marko]

Yes.  When MC starts, if it accesses the start page, we know that.  We don't know who you are.  It's the same with any browser that visits any page on the Internet.

I was under the impression that this changed back in build .137 as per the quote from Matt below made back in December 2006:

Note that build 137 makes all webpages shown in the program local. (save for Web Media pages)

They're updated during a "Check for Updates", and the user has full control over whether or not to download any new pages.

So, are they, or are they not, local?
Matt, thanks for the clarification

-marko.

[Alex B]

Personally, I am not worried about the usage terms, privacy, legality etc.

I am only worried about data that wil not be submittted in correct form or not at all if manual tools are not available. My concern is mostly cover art.

I just added a couple of new albums. The newly scanned cover art files were correcly and automatically linked, but because I didn't add them using a tool inside MC I have no way to submit the image files.

Naturally, I could remove the cover art links and relink the files, but that should not be required. I would like to be able to use the submit to Internet tool as before. If I were to import 100 or 1000 albums manual relinking would be practically impossible.

On the other hand, submitting a big amount of cover art files automatically should not be started in the background without any way to stop and possibly continue the process later.

For instance, 2000 image files with an average size of 70 KB would create 140 MB of data transfer. If the available outbound bandwidth is for example 200 kbps (my old cable modem connection didn't provide more) the process would take at least 93 minutes + the time that is needed for communication with the server and would reserve all outbound bandwidth during this time.