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Author Topic: Denmark, the bomb, the prophet, and the Kingston Trio  (Read 3372 times)

JimH

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Denmark, the bomb, the prophet, and the Kingston Trio
« on: March 19, 2008, 06:45:53 pm »

I saw a news piece today about some posters put up at night in a town in Denmark, showing one of the controversial cartoons that showed Muhammed in a controversial pose.

Then tonight I was thinking about the Kingston Trio and their song, The Merry Minuet (from around 1965).  It's still pretty current.

As we used to say, in the 60's in Berkeley, "What goes around comes around."  Or that's what I think we used to say.

Quote
They're rioting in Africa.
They're starving in Spain.
There're hurricanes in Florida
And Texas needs rain.

The whole world is festering
With unhappy souls.
The French hate the Germans.
The Germans hate the Poles.

Italians hate the Yugoslavs.
South Africans hate the Dutch
And I don't like anybody
Very much!

But we can be tranquil
And thankful and proud
For man's been endowed
With a mushroom shaped cloud.

And we know for certain
That some lovely day
Someone will set the spark off
And we will all be blown away.

They're rioting in Africa.
There's strife in Iran.
What nature doesn't do to us
Will be done by our fellow man.
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tinear

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Re: Denmark, the bomb, the prophet, and the Kingston Trio
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2008, 07:52:40 pm »

As the saying goes:
 "if you remember the sixties you weren't there!"
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Matt

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Re: Denmark, the bomb, the prophet, and the Kingston Trio
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2008, 08:12:32 pm »

Thanks for the pick-me-up.
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JimH

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Re: Denmark, the bomb, the prophet, and the Kingston Trio
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2008, 08:32:12 pm »

Thanks for the pick-me-up.
Hey.  We made it through the 60's.  You'll make it through the '00's.
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pank2002

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Re: Denmark, the bomb, the prophet, and the Kingston Trio
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2008, 05:41:39 am »

I saw a news piece today about some posters put up at night in a town in Denmark, showing one of the controversial cartoons that showed Muhammed in a controversial pose.

I don't get it. I did not hear about any posters (despite living in the country). Either way, people are free to put up posters in Denmark if they do so at appropriate spots...

The only "controversial" thing I have heard was that Kurt Westergaard, who made the cartoon of Muhammed with a bomb in his turban was used in crazy Wilders' movie. This was returned with another cartoon of Wilders.

BTW: Mr. Westergaard's cartoon has been misinterpreted by most people. His intention (as far as I remember) was drawn to show that some people takes Muhammad as a hostile and uses him in their fanaticism. Not that Muhammad should be blown into pieces and not that Muhammad has anything to do with the bomb.

-Rasmus
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KingSparta

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Re: Denmark, the bomb, the prophet, and the Kingston Trio
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2008, 06:41:23 pm »

Quote
Mr. Westergaard's cartoon has been misinterpreted by most people.

I think There point was any cartoon with "Muhammad" in it would be Offensive.

There are many Offensive Ideas On Many Sides (Christians, Jewish And Islam etc...)

Killing Anyone Should Be Offensive No Matter What Side Your On.
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hit_ny

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Re: Denmark, the bomb, the prophet, and the Kingston Trio
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2008, 03:00:19 am »

Well after that thread i've been in many discussions about the subject and i think i've come around to Jim's & GHammer's view's on it. Playing both sides of the debate makes it easier to grasp.

After the right to life comes the right to expression.

The US is the only country in the world where there is absolute freedom of expression. The theory goes that even if you were to say something offensive that is completely false that it is still protected, the only caveat is that it not lead to incitement. So its curious that the UK & the US chose not to display the cartoons as prominently as others. The reason i was told was a pragmatic one, that it would not help the GWOT.

Were the cartoons, inflammtory, false,  sure but they do not explictly lead to incitement.

Europe is not this free (especially the former axis powers, mostly as a consequence of what was imposed on them by the victors) as well as a lot of democratic countries elsewhere. The right to offend is restricted in many ways.

So US is the std bearer in this regard and one hopes they hold on to it long enough that the rest of the world can catch up, as this episode has quite elegantly displayed the ground still to be covered  :)
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jgreen

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Re: Denmark, the bomb, the prophet, and the Kingston Trio
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2008, 01:00:11 pm »

As the Smiths said:  If it's not love, then it's The Bomb that will bring us together.
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Mr ChriZ

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Re: Denmark, the bomb, the prophet, and the Kingston Trio
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2008, 05:28:02 pm »

The US is the only country in the world where there is absolute freedom of expression. The theory goes that even if you were to say something offensive that is completely false that it is still protected, the only caveat is that it not lead to incitement. So its curious that the UK & the US chose not to display the cartoons as prominently as others. The reason i was told was a pragmatic one, that it would not help the GWOT.

Many of us don't get that view of the freedom of speech in the US over here in the UK, but I guess it's all depending on your view point.
I heard you get a fair chance of being shot in the US in some area's if you say the wrong thing against a certain very common religion.
Top Gear a motor car  popular over here showed a certain episode that gave the impression that certain area's still had major problems with free thought, although how true it is, i don't know, could have been the show upping it's viewing figures...
I think no country can have absolute freedom of expression.  I think the UK's pretty liberal, but I'm sure there's people that can show it's not.  Each country's full of people.  People aren't perfect.  Some will always be against others expressing something which they can't understand.
A Goth couple walked through a UK park a year or so ago and got set upon by a bunch of short sited teenagers, the guy was killed for protecting his girlfriend, they'd done nothing wrong, but express a different dress/way of being.  Very sad :-(

There's always a scape goat round the corner maybe....
Worlds full of people that's the problem!

hit_ny

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Re: Denmark, the bomb, the prophet, and the Kingston Trio
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2008, 09:32:29 am »

I think no country can have absolute freedom of expression.

I meant in a legal sense that you can't be charged solely on the grounds of expressing your views, so long of course that you stop short of incitement.

As a consequence, things can happen in an extra-legal sense surely but then its a law & order issue, a question of enforcement.

Does the govt. make the problem go away or stand by it.
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