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[datdude]

The new improvements in Theater View got me to really like it, but there are some serious problems with it before I can commit to moving over from standard views.

1) Sorting is NOT applied, particularly for a search field.  Not sure about other fields though.
2) It will be extremely tedious for me to import over 60 saved searches,  Would it be possible to import a search group or simply import a saved view? (Just ignore all the customizations allowed in standard views and just get the basics of those views into a new Theater View, this will save lots of time)
3) The mouse currently does not track with the cursor over each item.  This is probably just a bug that will eventually be fixed.
4) Playing now with the G-Force plugin does not work well.  If you go to full screen from Theater View, you can't view the display controls which is particularly bad for Theater View, and if you try to switch back to the playing now view by double clicking, it freezes.  Either JRiver or Soundspectrum need to look into this.
5) Need to change the 3d background quickly as it is not very appealing to the eye.
6) The roll menus are still confusing.  Why can't I see the other field options on the second roller?  Why do I have to drill in first to get to the next one?  Else what is the point of second (bottom) roller menu?
7) When left clicking a song why can't I just play it without having to select 'play' in the menu?  Isn't that what the right mouse click is for?  This is always really annoying when I click a file and then HAVE to UNCLICK it in order to get to another file in the list, otherwise the menu just hangs there for no reason.

[JimH]

3) The mouse currently does not track with the cursor over each item.  This is probably just a bug that will eventually be fixed.

I think you may be using an older version.  That bug was fixed recently.

What skin?  Obsidian is the one we've spent the most time on lately.

[datdude]

The 108 build does appear to be a bit better with the mouse tracking. The menu rollers however still does not follow it until you scroll.

I am using the Obsidian skin.  The improvements in that were the reason why I seriously considered using Theater View!

A Few Other Suggestions:

1) Add a search option in the upper right corner of every view without having to scroll to it, its just there.  Clicking on that would pop up the full search option with alpha characters, but it would only apply to that view which you currently can't do, you can only search the entire library, which is cumbersome to have to be in a view and then go out of that to get to search..   That would be REALLY nice!

2) Allow multiple weather locations in the second menu roller and as well for the news sources rather than having to explicitly set the source just make them available on the fly in that bottom menu.

3) Add native Youtube support: http://www.networkworld.com/news/2009/011609-youtube-comes-to-the-ps3.html?hpg1=bn

4) Native support for e-mail like Gmail.

5) Add native support for Google Earth.  Probably not possible, but would be really cool!

After that I wouldn't need to do much else on my HTPC outside of Theater View.  Everything else could be done on my laptop.

[datdude]

Another bug is that if I enter in multiple search items when setting up a view, and then choose Match All, if I then try to use the multiple selection option in Theater View it does not filter those results out, its as if I chose the Match Any option instead.

[raym]

I don't use theater view with a mouse and kb so most of this doesn't bother me personally but, these would be cool :-

3) Add native Youtube support: http://www.networkworld.com/news/2009/011609-youtube-comes-to-the-ps3.html?hpg1=bn

4) Native support for e-mail like Gmail.

5) Add native support for Google Earth.  Probably not possible, but would be really cool!

[park]

6) The roll menus are still confusing.  Why can't I see the other field options on the second roller?  Why do I have to drill in first to get to the next one?  Else what is the point of second (bottom) roller menu?

I agree 100% on this point.

[rpalmer68]

I agree 100% on this point.

Me too, I find it totally unnatural to have to scroll up to the top line to then be able to scroll down to the 2nd line, but hey there is a LONG discussion on this already, I just hope something is done to make it flow better.

[datdude]

The more I use these menus the more I am 'getting' them.  I think I was initially confused because of how I expected standard views to work and being able to see each field as an item in the menu.  This way is not necessarily bad, its just doesn't follow how fields would normally show up in a standard view.

One of the biggest problems I have is that sorting seems to be all over the place.  Some places it works, in others it does nothing, and still others it does something completely different.  Something really weird is going on in that department.

Switching views to one with saved searches in it, loads much slower (1+ seconds) than other views.

I find it weird that using the left or right arrows does not go to the next row of thumbnails, it sticks at the end or beginning of the row.

For the thumbnail labels, I think the text should go no more than 2 rows deep.  3 rows just makes the cover art too small, and it looks funny.

I also just want to emphasize that having some sort of Search option easily available to each view should be mandatory, not just the central global search option.

[lalittle]

7) When left clicking a song why can't I just play it without having to select 'play' in the menu?  Isn't that what the right mouse click is for?

The idea behind Theater View is to be able to use it with a typical remote control in a home theater setup, which typically don't have a mouse or keyboard.  This means that ALL navigation and selection has to work with just up, down, left, right, and enter, as well as with a mouse and keyboard.  Remember that Theater View is not meant as simply an alternative to Standard View -- it's designed with a specific purpose in mind, and has to work with multiple input devices, including just a remote where there is no "right click."  Things get tricky when trying to make it work with all of the various input configurations that exist in this situation, and you end up with some compromises (like this one.)

Larry

[lalittle]

Me too, I find it totally unnatural to have to scroll up to the top line to then be able to scroll down to the 2nd line, but hey there is a LONG discussion on this already, I just hope something is done to make it flow better.

I'm also a bit disappointed in the current flow and some of the general design decisions.  That other discussion didn't seem to be leading to any changes, so I think it just fizzled out eventually.  I agree that the current method seems oddly cumbersome in ways, and I'm still annoyed and confused by the lack of "always preset" breadcrumbs.  I just don't agree that the screen looks "cleaner" by having the breadcrumb line constantly appear and disappear depending on exactly how/where I navigate.  This just seems bizarre to me, and I don't see how it creates anything other than confusion for anyone who actually uses breadcrumbs.  To me, the "now you see it - now you don't" breadcrumb line (i.e. the second roller) makes navigation more confusing, and makes the screen seem MORE busy due to the inconsistency.

Larry

[gappie]

I'm also a bit disappointed in the current flow and some of the general design decisions.  That other discussion didn't seem to be leading to any changes, so I think it just fizzled out eventually.  I agree that the current method seems oddly cumbersome in ways, and I'm still annoyed and confused by the lack of "always preset" breadcrumbs.  I just don't agree that the screen looks "cleaner" by having the breadcrumb line constantly appear and disappear depending on exactly how/where I navigate.  This just seems bizarre to me, and I don't see how it creates anything other than confusion for anyone who actually uses breadcrumbs.  To me, the "now you see it - now you don't" breadcrumb line (i.e. the second roller) makes navigation more confusing, and makes the screen seem MORE busy due to the inconsistency.

Larry

agree 100%.

how often i already explained people here in the house that when you see only series, you have to go to the magic word, series, and then the other choices pop up like films... i just putted all the views into one nest. just to get rid of all the confusion..

 
gab

[datdude]

The idea behind Theater View is to be able to use it with a typical remote control in a home theater setup, which typically don't have a mouse or keyboard.  This means that ALL navigation and selection has to work with just up, down, left, right, and enter, as well as with a mouse and keyboard.  Remember that Theater View is not meant as simply an alternative to Standard View -- it's designed with a specific purpose in mind, and has to work with multiple input devices, including just a remote where there is no "right click."  Things get tricky when trying to make it work with all of the various input configurations that exist in this situation, and you end up with some compromises (like this one.)

Larry

There's got to be a way for MC to differentiate between a mouse and a remote click...

[Marty3d]

If I may, I also chip in here... I really like the basic idea of the roller thing. But I've noticed here at home, both my girlfriend and I always tries to get to the top menu by arrow up when in movie albums (which of course doesn't work, you just scroll the list up). Then hitting back...and down and a little left and right... it has this really random feel about itself. We're almost everytime switch from arrow control to mouse control trying to navigate this thing (using the diNovo Mini keyboard, that is).

I don't know what's wrong, but something is.

[park]

If I may, I also chip in here... I really like the basic idea of the roller thing. But I've noticed here at home, both my girlfriend and I always tries to get to the top menu by arrow up when in movie albums (which of course doesn't work, you just scroll the list up). Then hitting back...and down and a little left and right... it has this really random feel about itself. We're almost everytime switch from arrow control to mouse control trying to navigate this thing (using the diNovo Mini keyboard, that is).

I don't know what's wrong, but something is.

I say put a shortcut at the left of the list which when "Entered" or left clicked again will take you to the top roller. People need this visual feedback when browsing. It only has to be 5 or 10 pixels wide.

[ThoBar]

If I may, I also chip in here... I really like the basic idea of the roller thing. But I've noticed here at home, both my girlfriend and I always tries to get to the top menu by arrow up when in movie albums (which of course doesn't work, you just scroll the list up). Then hitting back...and down and a little left and right... it has this really random feel about itself. We're almost everytime switch from arrow control to mouse control trying to navigate this thing (using the diNovo Mini keyboard, that is).

I don't know what's wrong, but something is.

Similar experience here. I'll also say that it's VERY close to being excellent, but just not quite there.

My feeling is that the thumbnail views should scroll left to right (a la the 3d view) when using the roller style navigation, so that its easy to move directly up to the menu (ie no vertical scrolling of items). The solves the problem of "I just want to go UP to the menu"....

It does not solve the problem in list/detail view however (where vert scrolling is kinda necessary)... I will see if I can thunk up summink

[ThoBar]

I say put a shortcut at the left of the list which when "Entered" or left clicked again will take you to the top roller. People need this visual feedback when browsing. It only has to be 5 or 10 pixels wide.

Just had a thought... might be able to cheat here, and just skin it that way. Just need to create a skinny vertical "region" in the view that has (for example) MENU written down it... it doesn't need to be an actual button or anything, just a visual cue to say "go all the way over to the left of the list to get to the menu area"

[edit] does and doesnt mean different things...

[park]

Just had a thought... might be able to cheat here, and just skin it that way. Just need to create a skinny vertical "region" in the view that has (for example) MENU written down it... it does need to be an actual button or anything, just a visual cue to say "go all the way over to the left of the list to get to the menu area"

Nice idea, but it also needs to flash (or do something) when you actually click "left" to show the user that they've chosen to jump away from the list.

I really like the idea about a left/right scrolling list. Makes a lot of sense. With that navigation we wouldnt even need to use the left edge of the list to "jump up" to the rollers.

[park]

agree 100%.

how often i already explained people here in the house that when you see only series, you have to go to the magic word, series, and then the other choices pop up like films... i just putted all the views into one nest. just to get rid of all the confusion..

 
gab

While Theater view is still on the radar, I'd like to remind you that the roller navigation is still far from intuitive.
To reiterate, my solutions would be to have the Library view name anchored and unchanging in the top roller. Moving up to it would allow you to switch Library View using the second roller.
Navigation (back etc.) would be done using the breadcrumbs in the second roller that would auto display whenever you move into the list.

[nuke2000]

I kind of agree re the subject of this post although saying that i have made the switch to MC. Problem being the rest of the family have not due to the navigation issues.

I really want to get them on board and ditch Vista MC but after watching my partner attempt to actually view the current queue in full screen i can see the problem and why i had to allow the MS offering prime time once more.

In my case i have a large music video collection which MC treats and catalogues just like a music collection, enabling video and audio to be mixed in a playlist or current queue. This is unique and the main reason i love MC. However, retrieving your full screen view of now playing using screen prompts is very tricky when browsing your collection and adding files to the queue. Navigate to more, navigate to now playing, navigate to big screen. Then when you want to add more of your media to the queue you have to repeat the process.

I personally think that 3 things would help immensely in the navigation area:

1. Now playing - Screen positions of playing media and queue info should be swapped - With the currently playing media on the right hand side it could be selected with a right arrow remote press and select
2. Perhaps an alternative to 1 (but this as an option as well would be great) is transparent menu overlay option (playing now full screen in the background). It would be good to have the esc keystroke remapped to exit the menu overlay as personally escape kicking me to the exit screen seems counterintuitive and a bit severe. On the subject of quitting theatre view, i think this happens to easily (toggle views etc) and as has been mentioned elsewhere in the forum theatre view should perform in a kind of locked kiosk mode so users don't get kicked back to the widows desktop or standard views too easily. Exit on the home screen is enough with perhaps the main options being 'cancel', 'Shutdown / restart' and 'more' in which exit theatre view is located
3. Allowing user customisation of the rollers shown i.e. removal of unwanted options (i have no need for volume controls, stop, previous, next for example) and moving of most used options (i would for example like the big screen and playing now more immediately available).

I really really love MC and with some navigation tweaks and the potential addition of some form of movie database (which i hear may be in the pipeline - Perhaps Mr MyMovies could be persuaded to join up  ) its game over for Vista & 7 Media Centre

Thanks for listening to your users and the continued improvements - how do you cope with these constant demands 

[glynor]

While Theater view is still on the radar, I'd like to remind you that the roller navigation is still far from intuitive.
To reiterate, my solutions would be to have the Library view name anchored and unchanging in the top roller. Moving up to it would allow you to switch Library View using the second roller.
Navigation (back etc.) would be done using the breadcrumbs in the second roller that would auto display whenever you move into the list.

I thought I'd mention that a while back (when this all started) I made a fairly detailed recommendation about all of this.  The response was decidedly mixed... 

[rick.ca]

The response was decidedly mixed...

We need a third roller—for picking roller behaviour.

[ThoBar]

Similar experience here. I'll also say that it's VERY close to being excellent, but just not quite there.

My feeling is that the thumbnail views should scroll left to right (a la the 3d view) when using the roller style navigation, so that its easy to move directly up to the menu (ie no vertical scrolling of items). The solves the problem of "I just want to go UP to the menu"....

It does not solve the problem in list/detail view however (where vert scrolling is kinda necessary)... I will see if I can thunk up summink

OK, after having somewhat of a slow ponder on this, the only suggestion for the detail/pane type view I can come up with is....

Keep the views the same, but display them a page at a time, allowing for the left/right navigation on a page-by-page basis (or even half page if you wanted). I'm pretty sure this would be intuitive (especially if you had background arrows or similar indicating navigation works using left and right), it would be more intuitive in terms of the roller system, and access to the roller...

Personally, I think the roller is a very good concept, but the navigation doesn't marry up too well with the current item navigation system. Hopefully this suggestion will alleviate that issue.

C.

[)p(]

No. I would really not like to see the item navigation add left right movement! Would kill the feeling for me...I always use line up for the menus and would feel that introducing left right selecting at the last level...ie for example the photo thumbnails very confusing.

peter

[park]

That's a good point. I was only considering thumbnail views. What a dilemma. For thumbnails, left/right (paged or not) would definitely feel better and work nicer with the rollers.

Perhaps if the way the pages animated were done well enough, even lineup views would feel nice using left/right pages. Each lineup item could be staggered a few milliseconds later than the previous one when scrolling off the screen, so that when you scroll "right" to go to the next page, they would fall off the screen to the left in a kind of domino effect, with the next page's results flowing onto the screen in the same style from the right. That would look kind of cool. And it would be a faster way of moving through the alphabet, than the current method of holding the down button.

You have to admit, that scrolling down the lineup list really fast doesn't really gain you anything at the moment anyway. The list scrolls too fast to be able to see anything. It's kind of pot luck seeing where you'll end up at.

[)p(]

You have to admit, that scrolling down the lineup list really fast doesn't really gain you anything at the moment anyway. The list scrolls too fast to be able to see anything. It's kind of pot luck seeing where you'll end up at.

Line up menus are not very large...so no problem...best feature in theaterview imho. But actually even tumbnails scrolling looks much better vertically and feels more natural. I scroll through large lists of photo thumbnails very fast now on a 3m wide screen with ease...also looks spectacular with the jukebox like animation I must say. Having them scroll horizontally would probably make me dizzy

peter

[ThoBar]

And it would be a faster way of moving through the alphabet, than the current method of holding the down button.

You have to admit, that scrolling down the lineup list really fast doesn't really gain you anything at the moment anyway. The list scrolls too fast to be able to see anything. It's kind of pot luck seeing where you'll end up at.

I hadn't really considered those points, but I agree - good pickup.

Line up menus are not very large...so no problem...best feature in theaterview imho. But actually even tumbnails scrolling looks much better vertically and feels more natural. I scroll through large lists of photo thumbnails very fast now on a 3m wide screen with ease...also looks spectacular with the jukebox like animation I must say. Having them scroll horizontally would probably make me dizzy

peter

I think we start getting into the realms of personal preference here, so don't really want to argue the point on those grounds however (you knew it was coming ), it would enable the possible integration of the 3d thumbnail browsing into Theater View in a more consisent user experience - the horizontal scroll seems to be gaining more traction in general - esp. now that wide screens are pretty much the norm.

By "Line up menus" do you mean the full-width based thumbnail/text and Text/thumnail panes? (sorry-just never used this terminology for them before) If so, I do end up with rather large lists, and so end up experiencing the 'pot luck' that park describes. Although I dont know that my proposal would really help in that regard, it may be with trying to see... *hint JR, hint*

C.

[)p(]

Yeah those where you see the thumbs from the next level on the line. I also have no problem with scrolling them...there are enough lines on the screen. actually I feel them with either a thumbnail or detail view on the last level is almost perfect and would not to like see that changed. That the rollers are horizontal I find works ok with the vertical lists...the rollers are the menus and the lists are the content.

The main issue I have after a few days is I feel that now playing should be easier to reach and especially the big screen. But maybe I am missing something here.

peter

[ThoBar]

FWIW I agree about the lack of an easy jump to the big screen... But I have just realized how that may be remedied... And I was just aabout to post this idea bit you beat me to it

One of the benefits of moving to a fully horizontal scrolling system is that it enables you to have a second menu below the list. This would be an ideal spot for a shortcut menu which could include things like jumping to the big screen, to the root menu etc... I think this could really help keep the top roller menu clear while simplifying some aspects of Theater View navigation

[)p(]

Ok i am now at the projector and just looked at the 3d wall with it. Although the effect is very cool...the depth it gives on such a big screen is amazing...I much prefer the normal vertical thumbnail view for scrolling thumbs...but I can see its attraction for its wow factor

So now time for a movie... 

peter

[lalittle]

The main issue I have after a few days is I feel that now playing should be easier to reach and especially the big screen. But maybe I am missing something here.

You're not missing anything -- others (including myself) have commented that the Playing Now screen should be a lot easier to get to.

Larry

[lalittle]

One of the benefits of moving to a fully horizontal scrolling system is that it enables you to have a second menu below the list.

Are the people talking about "horizontal scrolling" referring to just the thumbnail view?  I ask because I (and others at my end) still prefer list view, where vertical scrolling is really the only proper way to do it.  It makes me a bit nervous when people refer to "fully" horizontal scrolling -- I want to verify that the "fully" would not pertain to list view scrolling.

Thanks,

Larry

[ThoBar]

Are the people talking about "horizontal scrolling" referring to just the thumbnail view?  I ask because I (and others at my end) still prefer list view, where vertical scrolling is really the only proper way to do it.  It makes me a bit nervous when people refer to "fully" horizontal scrolling -- I want to verify that the "fully" would not pertain to list view scrolling.

Thanks,

Larry

my suggestion *is* based around horizontal scrolling for the list view, a page at a time. There is no change to the actual display of the list, just behaviour of the scroll. As I've hinted at, this *suggestion* is designed to address shortcomings that people (including myself) believe exist in the current UI 

[lalittle]

my suggestion *is* based around horizontal scrolling for the list view, a page at a time. There is no change to the actual display of the list, just behaviour of the scroll. As I've hinted at, this *suggestion* is designed to address shortcomings that people (including myself) believe exist in the current UI 

I don't think this would be a good solution.  I agree that there are shortcomings with the current navigation, but having the list scroll sideways, in my opinion, would make things much worse.  I think it would be very counter-intuitive to scroll "down" to the bottom of the list, and then scroll "sideways" to the next page (regardless of which arrow button was used to advance.)  When you scroll down, it is totally intuitive to scroll "down" to get to the next item BELOW the last one on the page.

You have to admit, that scrolling down the lineup list really fast doesn't really gain you anything at the moment anyway. The list scrolls too fast to be able to see anything. It's kind of pot luck seeing where you'll end up at.

I actually don't agree.  I can see still easily see the first letter of the names as they fly by, and I can catch "glimpses" of full names, so I can pretty easily tell when I'm getting close to the name I'm looking for.  I have to stop and scroll more slowly to get to the exact artist I want, but I can definitely get in the ballpark when scrolling at full speed.

Larry

PS.  Just to beat a dead horse here, I still pine for the "Always visible" breadcrumb info, as well as a much easier to get to Playing Now screen.  On the flip side, kudos for the much more powerful Theater View options screen -- very nice.

[park]

I don't think this would be a good solution.  I agree that there are shortcomings with the current navigation, but having the list scroll sideways, in my opinion, would make things much worse.  I think it would be very counter-intuitive to scroll "down" to the bottom of the list, and then scroll "sideways" to the next page (regardless of which arrow button was used to advance.) 

You wouldnt do that. You would only scroll down if there were an item you want to go to. You would keep your hand on "Right" to whizz through the list quickly.

PS.  Just to beat a dead horse here, I still pine for the "Always visible" breadcrumb info, as well as a much easier to get to Playing Now screen.  On the flip side, kudos for the much more powerful Theater View options screen -- very nice.

Me too. 
The dead horse certainly does need a beating though, so lets not give up.

[)p(]

You're not missing anything -- others (including myself) have commented that the Playing Now screen should be a lot easier to get to.

Larry

Is there a keyboard shortcut to now playing?...that would be enough for me when mapped on the remote.

peter

[nuke2000]

Is there a keyboard shortcut to now playing?...that would be enough for me when mapped on the remote.

peter

Alt + 2 gets you to Playing Now, however you then have the same navigation issues if you want big screen as you cannot select the window with a remote, only by double clicking with a mouse.

There are also shortcuts to toggle between views, and shortcuts for each individual view but they don't seem to work reliably and are dependent on what screen you are currently on. I am often kicked out of theatre view when using Ctrl + 4 (mapped to my remote) which shouldn't happen.

Regarding all the navigation issues and the trouble retrieving playing now, i reiterate my earlier post and think this is the only area where MC can learn from Vista MC. Personally i thionk the layout in Vista MC is the way forward. MC13 Theatre Views latest skin has begun the process of horizontal scrolling on the home screen so it would seem natural to continue the process to the other screens. If some users are reluctant to change to horizontal they can simply use another skin - Thats part of the beauty of MC

edit* - Alt + 2 doesn't function in theatre view 

[gappie]

Is there a keyboard shortcut to now playing?...that would be enough for me when mapped on the remote.

peter

can you use mcc commands on the remote?
mc13.exe /mcc 22001,2
brings me to playing now.

mc13.exe /mcc 22000,2
switches between fullscreen and where ever i am in Theater View (or standard view when that was what was on front before).

mc13.exe /MCC 22001,1
always brings you to the first Theater View screen. unlike ctrl 4 (or mc13.exe /mcc 22000,3) which switches between views.

hope it helps

 
gab

[ThoBar]

I don't think this would be a good solution.  I agree that there are shortcomings with the current navigation, but having the list scroll sideways, in my opinion, would make things much worse.  I think it would be very counter-intuitive to scroll "down" to the bottom of the list, and then scroll "sideways" to the next page (regardless of which arrow button was used to advance.)  When you scroll down, it is totally intuitive to scroll "down" to get to the next item BELOW the last one on the page.

I actually don't agree.  I can see still easily see the first letter of the names as they fly by, and I can catch "glimpses" of full names, so I can pretty easily tell when I'm getting close to the name I'm looking for.  I have to stop and scroll more slowly to get to the exact artist I want, but I can definitely get in the ballpark when scrolling at full speed.

Larry

PS.  Just to beat a dead horse here, I still pine for the "Always visible" breadcrumb info, as well as a much easier to get to Playing Now screen.  On the flip side, kudos for the much more powerful Theater View options screen -- very nice.

Hrm... I'm open to other suggestions, but at this stage i really think somehting needs to change. I personally think that currently having to go to the left of a list to get to a menu above the list is very counter intuitive.

I agree that my proposal isnt ideal, but it does have its benefits.

[)p(]

hope it helps

 
gab

Thanks gab

peter

[)p(]

.

Regarding all the navigation issues and the trouble retrieving playing now, i reiterate my earlier post and think this is the only area where MC can learn from Vista MC. Personally i thionk the layout in Vista MC is the way forward. MC13 Theatre Views latest skin has begun the process of horizontal scrolling on the home screen so it would seem natural to continue the process to the other screens. If some users are reluctant to change to horizontal they can simply use another skin - Thats part of the beauty of MC

That's your opinion...as mentioned above I see no conceptual problem with the sliders being hor and the lists vertical nor a practical one...I even prefer it above the old style layout. Maybe time for a poll?

peter

[lalittle]

You wouldnt do that. You would only scroll down if there were an item you want to go to. You would keep your hand on "Right" to whizz through the list quickly.

If I'm looking at a list on the screen, I scroll "down" to get to the last visible item.  If I want to get to the NEXT item on the list "below" the last item visible, the intuitive thing to do is to scroll to the bottom of the list and them "down" one more item.  It simply isn't intuitive to me to think to scroll "right" to get to the next screen when the list is vertically oriented.  The natural way to scroll a vertically oriented list is to scroll "down."

Note that when most people scroll a list, they "zero in" similar to the way you focus a camera -- i.e. you overshoot a bit, then overshoot the other way by a smaller distance, then move slowly enough to land on the target.  If you have to think in two separate axes at the same time -- left/right for the correct page, then up/down for the specific item -- it makes things a lot more complicated, and takes more concentration to zero in quickly.  I strongly feel that the right way to do this is to stick with a single axis, which should be "up/down" since we're dealing with a vertical list.

Larry

[lalittle]

I personally think that currently having to go to the left of a list to get to a menu above the list is very counter intuitive.

We're dealing with two different things here.  One is "drilling in" to sub-lists, the other is navigating the list that we're currently on.  Scrolling right/left is a natural way to drill into/out of a sub-list.  The MC "Standard View" panes use a left to right pane structure, with each pane to the right being a sub-list of the list to the left.  It only seems natural to move "right" to go deeper into sub-lists, and "left" to come back out of them.

Navigating WITHIN a list, on the other hand, is a bit different.  The "standard" for navigating a single list used in things like TV channel guides is to use a single vertical list along a single up/down axis.

A good example of navigation standards is in the web browser you're using right now.  To move "back" to a previous page you visited, you hit a "left" arrow.  To move back "in" again, you use a "right" arrow.  To navigate the current page that you're on, however, you use up/down scrolling.  This is very intuitive for most people, and has become the standard in different browsers.

Larry

[)p(]

Most likely this has been suggested before...I think putting No Playing in the spot of Play All seems to me to be its proper place?

peter

[raym]

Most likely this has been suggested before...I think putting Now Playing in the spot of Play All seems to me to be its proper place?

peter

It has, many times (just in the last few days) and I couldn't agree more. In my household, I'm forever hearing the complaint: "How do I get to my current playlist?!!!" I think the usefulness and neccessity of Playing Now in Theater View is underestimated.

Although I doubt this will happen, it would be great if the menu options on the roller menus were user configurable in terms of both layout and items shown. I would shift "Playing Now" to the top roller, move "Reshuffle" to the top of the Playing Now roller menu and remove ALL the media control items ("play", "stop" etc) which is of no use to me (or anyone not using a touch screen I imagine).

[lalittle]

Most likely this has been suggested before...I think putting Now Playing in the spot of Play All seems to me to be its proper place?

peter

You mean the "Play All" on the top bar, correct?  If so, I agree.  (I just want to make sure you're not talking about the "Play All" in the pop-up "Play menu.")

Larry

[JimH]

... I'm forever hearing the complaint: "How do I get to my current playlist?!!!" I think the usefulness and neccessity of Playing Now in Theater View is underestimated.

We recognize the problem.  We'll try to find a solution.

[)p(]

You mean the "Play All" on the top bar, correct?  If so, I agree.  (I just want to make sure you're not talking about the "Play All" in the pop-up "Play menu.")

Larry

Yes the hor menu slider top bar.

A shortcut key mapped to a menu button on the remote to reach the slider menu at all times directly with one button press could also help some people.

peter

[MrHaugen]

Now that the media mixing, nesting and view details remembering for each view are fixed, I could finally make the step! I have had the time to play with MC13 for a few days now, and have a few suggestions wich would improve the Theater View experience. Much of this have been mentioned, but I'll repeat anyway.

1. Playing Now. This have to be easily available on the Top Roller or some other magical place. The reason is the loss of the left menu, and the way the second roller works. You're hardly at the main menu any more.

2. Second roller visability. Some time ago I wholeheartedly insisted that the second roller should not be visible at all times. I did not fully understand the way that the new views would work. I thought you could have a Video View with sub categories like "Music Videos", "Series" etc like in the old Theater View Skins. I know better now. It looks like it can be done like this now as well, but most people will probably have several views for this. Changing views and getting an idea of where you are, and what other views are available would be a lot easier if the roller was visible at all times.

3. Searching. Search should also be visible from all views, as many people don't use the main menu that often.

4. Right side info screen. There are probably some work going on here, but I just have to give a pointer or two. It would be best if one could choose the tags to be shown. Most people don't care much about the file type, bitrate and other details anyway. Give us a way to select what to be visible and in wich order. The details should also be seperate for Music, Images and Video. Video should include Video media type as well as data (for img, iso files etc). Configurable for each view would definately be the best ("configure details view" button).

5. Pick files to show. This option should be moved from the advanced menu in Theater Views config, to a easy to spot button for each view. This is not advaneced imo, and is really nececcary for people who are combining data types or self made tags. It only leads to confusion to hide it.

6. A good video/movie database. This is the most pressing matter that is left of MC development imo, and I know it have some focus now. I'm really looking forward to what you can come up with here.

[lalittle]

2. Second roller visability. Some time ago I wholeheartedly insisted that the second roller should not be visible at all times.
...
Changing views and getting an idea of where you are, and what other views are available would be a lot easier if the roller was visible at all times.

Thank you for posting this!  This is what I've been saying the whole time.  The second roller, or "breadcrumb roller" as some have called it, is incredibly useful for getting a quick point of reference to where you are at any moment.  When it's hidden, you can't do this without extra navigation, which makes things cumbersome.  It's difficult to explain, but even though it seems like a small thing, it actually makes a substantial difference to be able to glance up and see the current path at any time.  It takes a surprising amount of extra brain-power to have to "think" about where you are at any given moment.  A visible breadcrumb path greatly diminishes or even eliminates this problem.

4. Right side info screen. There are probably some work going on here, but I just have to give a pointer or two. It would be best if one could choose the tags to be shown. Most people don't care much about the file type, bitrate and other details anyway. Give us a way to select what to be visible and in wich order. The details should also be seperate for Music, Images and Video. Video should include Video media type as well as data (for img, iso files etc). Configurable for each view would definately be the best ("configure details view" button).

This is a great idea -- I would definitely make use of this feature.

Larry