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[Eccles]

EDIT by JimH -- this thread is a response to a special price offer.  Details are here.


I'm confused.  I just received an email informing me of special upgrade prcing on MC13, which includes a free upgrade to MC14 when it's released.  The referenced page - http://wiki.jrmediacenter.com/index.php/Special - says I "must buy MC13.0.170 to get the MC14 license".  What exactly does that mean?  I've already bought and paid for MC13, but I'm running 13.0.132.  Can I, or do I have to, download and install .170 to be eligible for the free upgrade, or does that mean that only folks who purchase an MC13 upgrade after the release of .170 get the upgrade, i.e. I'm screwed?

[rpalmer68]

I'm confused.  I just received an email informing me of special upgrade prcing on MC13, which includes a free upgrade to MC14 when it's released.  The referenced page - http://wiki.jrmediacenter.com/index.php/Special - says I "must buy MC13.0.170 to get the MC14 license".  What exactly does that mean?  I've already bought and paid for MC13, but I'm running 13.0.132.  Can I, or do I have to, download and install .170 to be eligible for the free upgrade, or does that mean that only folks who purchase an MC13 upgrade after the release of .170 get the upgrade, i.e. I'm screwed?

IF you purchase or upgrade to MC13 NOW you get a FREE upgrade to MC14 (on it's release). 

If you are an existing MC13 user, you will have to pay the new upgrade price to purchase  the MC14 upgrade once it's released.

Richard

[KeystoneCop]

So, With the economy going bad, you want to more than double the last rate increase for a new version.

I will tell you like all the others that I have cancelled.... Have a nice day.. the way to get more new business is to lower, not raise prices.. but what do I know.........  but you won't get more from me................. and bye the way.. I really did like your product all the way up the line..............

[JohnFC]

Also fed up with continual price increases and what I percieve to be greedy and expensive upgrade rips.

Wasn't so long ago we paid for v13 - must have only been a few months ago, and here we go again....

Very sorry, after many years, I cannot afford this any longer.

Goodbye Media Centre.

[JimH]

So, With the economy going bad, you want to more than double the last rate increase for a new version.

I will tell you like all the others that I have cancelled.... Have a nice day.. the way to get more new business is to lower, not raise prices.. but what do I know.........  but you won't get more from me................. and bye the way.. I really did like your product all the way up the line..............

Not sure how you get "double the last rate increase".   $19.98 for two versions seems cheap to me, but not if you've already bought one.

I looked at your old posts.  You said this a few times:

Recent Commands does not include  Locate

Right click on an audio track does include Locate.  You can increase the number of Most Recently Used Commands.  Go to Tree and View/Advanced and change the number for "Right click recent command count".  Not sure if that helps, but worth a try.  Please start a thread if you need help.

[Sauzee]

I feel your pricing policy is unfair in my case. I'm a long-time user of MC, been buying licences for every version since MC9 or earlier. I bought a MC13 licence early when it was $5 cheaper than the standard upgrade price.

At the time MC13 was still in beta. I installed it to have a look at MC 13 then uninstalled and went back to MC 12.

My licence key restores will confirm this pattern of usage.


My plan was to start using MC 13 at the end of its development. Now that MC 13 is at that stage I find that if i had waited i would have got a free upgrade to 14 included if i had delayed my purchase until i was actually going to use MC13.

Forum posts at the time advocated buying MC13 to get the $5 discount, even if users didn't intend to immediately switch to MC13.

So I bought licences for each preceeding version and paid upfront for MC13, improved your cash flow hehe, didn't use it...and now i will have to pay extra to get MC14, whilst less active upgraders of MC can get a free upgrade. mmm, just seems unfair to me, and discourages me from paying early for future upgrades. I feel i should be getting a free upgrade to MC14. Am i being unreasonable?

[Magicland]

So let me get this straight. Current "upgrade" price to MC13 is $19.98, and includes a free MC14 license. However, if we already own MC13, it costs us $24.98 to upgrade to MC14? That certainly doesn't seem fair. It should cost less to upgrade to MC14 for those who've loyally upgraded all along, not more.

Of course, I suppose those of us who also own MC12 can "re-upgrade" that by purchasing another MC13 upgrade (despite already owning an MC13 license) to get the MC14 license for free and avoid the $5 "loyalty surcharge", but it sure seems like those who've upgraded all along should get a better deal, not a worse one...

[YannisA]

I've paid $39.98 on March 13th, to get the licence for MC13. Because of this, I'm now being punsished, not being eligible for a free upgrade to MC14, which will be available to all users that will purchase/upgrade to MC13 just now.
In other words, if I want MC14, I'll have to pay extra $24.98 (a total of $64.96), which is too much.
I'd expect that, because it's not only me but a big number of users, you should revice your pricing policy, to a more fair one. Don't forget that exisiting users have brought you here, to be about to release MC14.
Or, just put in the wiki the label "SALES"

[NineToTheSky]

I'm not very familiar with this forum, but I see that someone called Matt (who is a citizen of the universe) presumably knows what is going on. Could you, Matt, please respond to the question asking why those of us who purchased the beta of v13 should effectively have to pay again? If I am incorrect in that assumption, could you please correct me?

If you don't know, could you direct me to someone who does?

[jaguar.x]

It is a great player and a great support team... but still think that its "lincesing for upgrades" requires an "old-customer" approach.

I have used and bought every license and upgrades since MediaJukebox 8, and I do because I think that this media player worths it.

Now paying for an already bought license (MC13) just to acquire a new version (MC14) just adds some extra cost for the previously bought license, in other words:

- License upgrade from MC12 to MC13: 19
- License upgrade from MC13 to MC13.170 (MC14 beta): 19

- Total upgrade from MC12 to MC13 is 38

From my point of view it is still cheaper to wait for the final MC14 which will be about 25?

Anyway I am trying to say that supporting an application by buying licenses would also require from the company that sells those licenses to keep old customers happy... and I am not so happy about the last "upgrade" license process.

Also we don't have a "new exciting features" of the new MC14. I really hope that JRiver reconsider its licensing issues for the new versions taking special care of old-customers, otherwise some old-customers will stuck at MC13 and start to look around for another "exciting" media player.

Best regards

[JimH]

[Copied from another thread]

What about my recent purchase of MC13?
Thanks for your purchase.  We appreciate it. 

When you purchase early in the cycle, your license is good for a longer period.  When you purchase later in the cycle, you get a more mature program.  Neither is perfect.

We hope you understand that we have to decide when to switch.  We try to provide a buffer of several months where purchasers of the old version actually get a license for the new one.  This began yesterday with the availability MC13.0.170.  It uses an MC14 license, but also works with an MC13 license. 

When MC14 is first available, in a month or so, early versions will work with an MC13 license.  We will offer special pricing again on an MC14 license at that time.

[boozercruiser]

 :(Ah well, as sods law would have it I only purchased my paid for JRiver Version 12 for upgrade to version 13 five days ago on Thursday 21st May 2009.
While I am not bothered about the reduction in price as that can happen, I am more disappointed that I have missed out on the new key for Version 14.

Obviously the trick is to not purchase version 14 any time soon but to wait around a year now, when presumably I will receive an e. mail offering me version 14 together with the key to version 15.

One lives and learns doesn't one! 

P.S. I just love the JRiver Media Center though. Well worth it under any circumstances. 

[DJ_Hazelwood]

I really hope that JRiver reconsider its licensing issues for the new versions taking special care of old-customers, otherwise some old-customers will stuck at MC13 and start to look around for another "exciting" media player.

I hope so too.

As a longtime-user of MC this is what I payed so far:

MC10 license:  $ 39,98
MC11 upgrade: $ 10,--
MC12 upgrade: $ 19,98
MC13 upgrade: $ 14,98

And now I should pay again $ 24,98 to get MC14??

Hm 

Not a good policy for longtime-users imo.

Maybe I will stay with MC13 ...

[JimH]

Divide the dollars you've spent by the hours you've used it.  I think MC10 was $29.98.  Say you've spent $75 over the last 5 years.

That's $15/year, or $1.25/month, or about 4 cents/day.

If you're a clean person, and I assume you are, you spend more than that on soap.  And on top of the soap, you've got toothpaste, shampoo, laundry detergent, dish washing soap, etc.

If you drive your car around the block, it costs more than 4 cents.

Seriously, we never meant to upset you, or even try to sell you MC14.  We were trying to offer the update to MC13 to people who haven't updated to MC13 yet.  We threw in the MC14 license to entice them.  But we don't have a unified database that lets us mail those who have not upgraded, so we mailed everyone.

I'm really sorry to have upset you or anyone else.  It wasn't intended to be the act of greed that some have perceived.

[Alexx]

Divide the dollars you've spent by the hours you've used it. 

This is a good and valid point.  I, for one, cannot compute without music playing, so Media Center sits quietly in my tray flawlessly churning through my vast collection of tunes for hours a day.  Not bad for four cents.   

[4BYE]

How about the point that nobody knows what MC 14 will bring at all?
I think your loyal customers should be rewarded not punished as I wrote before this topic was split.

I'm not talking for myself here since I will not upgrade to 13 at all. Since I use it mainly for my music files, MC 12 will do the job fine.
I still find MC a great tool for that purpose, but use other programs for my images and video's now. I would pay even far more if it would suit all my needs, but it doesn't. So with the new specs MC 13 is not more useful to me.

In these times I would cherish my loyal customers and don't piss them off with these actions, especially in these bad times of economy.
I do not agree with the guy saying your prices are too high for MC 14. You set the price and that's your right to do so.
If it's too high for some people don't buy it or buy something else or stick with the current version.

[JimH]

How about the point that nobody knows what MC 14 will bring at all?
I think your loyal customers should be rewarded not punished as I wrote before this topic was split.

I'm having trouble understanding why anyone is being "punished".  The MC14 license is just a bonus with an MC13 upgrade.  Anyone with an MC13 license can wait for MC14.

I guess I must be an insensitive brute ...

[MrHaugen]

I don't understand either. Every time it's complaints about pricing. This is NOT an expensive application. Most of use it a lot, and I for one can not consider the alternatives. With all the time I've enjoyed the application I'd be willing to pay 10 times as much!

J River could have skipped the upgrade offer, and just let those that want to upgrade do so when version 14 comes out. They added the v14 license in c13 licenses MONTHS before it's released. Just to be nice to the ones that have bought the app closer to the new release. Do all the companies you know do that?? Remember that they HAVE to draw the line somewhere.

Sure, there are small apps you get lifetime upgrades from. But I hardly think that they have the staff and developing cost of J river. If everyone of us had not payed since version 10, do you think they would still be around? Really?

J River usually gives an upgrade offer of half the price, and even less than that in periods. If you can't afford that, I'm suprised you can affort the computer you're sitting at, the Internet connection, and the electricity to run you're computer as well. If you're in that big trouble you should really go through you're budget again and prioritize.

[Two Wire]

We were trying to offer the update to MC13 to people who haven't updated to MC13 yet.  We threw in the MC14 license to entice them.  But we don't have a unified database that lets us mail those who have not upgraded, so we mailed everyone.

I am one of those registered users who got the email and willing to pay for the upgrade now. However, I still cannot figure out how to do this. Where is the link or "Buy Button" that allows registered users to do this? Or is it even possible?

[terrya64]

I just upgraded to mc13 on the 24th. Do I get a free v14 license or not? My download on the 24th was not version 13.170. Do I loose out for not buying just a day or so later?
An answer would be nice, second time I have asked.

[4BYE]

I'm having trouble understanding why anyone is being "punished".  The MC14 license is just a bonus with an MC13 upgrade.  Anyone with an MC13 license can wait for MC14.

I guess I must be an insensitive brute ...

I think you're more intelligent than you're showing here...
What I'm trying to say is that when people are willing to upgrade right away and spend the money for that, it's annoying to see that people that are waiting get more out of the deal! I also said it's you're bussiness to do so but that's my opinion. Again, I would cherish the people that are the first ones to buy. But I guess that's not realistic anymore in bussiness today. It's the same in my line of bussiness. When a new DVD comes out it sells for say € 20,00 not much later it's sold for less then € 10,00. (One company even goes from € 20,00 tot € 7,50 within 6 weeks) The downside is that people start to wait to buy.
I don't think you're an insensitive brute ... you're just a bussinessman...

[221bBS]

When MC14 is first available, in a month or so, early versions will work with an MC13 license.  We will offer special pricing again on an MC14 license at that time.

If you have MC13 (like I do) just wait a few months until MC14 (beta) comes out. They haven't forgotten about us 

[Sauzee]

You are punishing early upgraders and people who upgrade to each new version.

You should offer the free licence to the next version for early purchasers of the previous version, not the later purchasers! ie. in this case for people who bought MC13 early

[JimH]

You are punishing early upgraders and people who upgrade to each new version.

I need to get a leather outfit and a whip....

[221bBS]

You are punishing early upgraders and people who upgrade to each new version.

You should offer the free licence to the next version for early purchasers of the previous version, not the later purchasers! ie. in this case for people who bought MC13 early

I have to disagree, I am one of those early upgraders and I was perfectly happy with upgrading from 12 to 13 for $15? maybe less and will be happy to upgrade from 13 to 14 for $20?. I find that J. Rivers upgrade prices are very reasonable.

[Sauzee]

Everyone has a right to their opinion. I guess i was foolish to pay for the upgrade to MC13 early on when a $5 discount was given, but not actually use it. I still use MC12. I should have waited. So assuming $5 discount for MC 14 upgraders i will pay an additional $20 and have had no benefit. J River get the cash flow benefit, so my decision to upgrade was a poor one for me but a good one for them.

All I'm saying is that your pricing policy will deter people from upgrading early on and may deter some from upgrading to each new version.

[johnnyboy]

I think the upgrade price is totally reasonable. I can see peoples point of view though - with Windows 7 for instance, if you sign up for it now MS is giving you a free license for the RC. With MC, people who sign up while it is being developed and helping with feedback are getting a worse deal than the people who are buying the final developed product (that was developed and bug fixed thanks to the early adopters).

I think the price however is pretty reasonable although I definitely think anyone who buys it and gets the v14 license should get access to v14 forum so they can use it

[Gl3nn]

The upgrade prices, in themselves,  are more than reasonable... but long-term users (13 from 12 from 11, etc) should be made to feel more valued than current policy engenders.

If you're a frequent flyer, there should be perks...

[MrC]

If you're a frequent flyer, there should be perks...

Whence comes this sense of entitlement?  I'm flummoxed by these feelings and beliefs.  Only with software are these freebies demanded, expected.  The gas/electric company isn't giving me 2 months free credit for being with them for years, nor are any of: the satellite company, water, sewer, garbage, the car dealer, grocery store, ISP, computer mfg., cab company, health, life, dental, auto insurance companies, the bank for the mortgage, health club, tailor, barber, restaurants.  And Dell is not tossing any lifetime of computer's my way because I've purchased a few in the past, and neither is Apple.  I don't recall seeing boxes of free stereo equipment on the front porch.  And even after many years of purchasing milk... I'm still... purchasing milk.

Please people - get over this feeling that because you spent a whopping $50 or so, that a company owes you a lifetime worth of loyalty and freebies.  That's NUTS!

The good news for you is that you get a lifetime of free rights to vote your feelings with your $$$, as you see fit.

[cncb]

You are punishing early upgraders and people who upgrade to each new version.

You should offer the free licence to the next version for early purchasers of the previous version, not the later purchasers! ie. in this case for people who bought MC13 early

I don't understand your points at all.  If you bought a copy of Vista when it came out but haven't gotten around to using it yet do you expect them to offer you a free license for Windows 7?  Are you saying that you expect JRiver to offer a free 14 license even if you buy early in the development of 13?  How do you expect them to make any money operating this way?  They are just being nice by trying not to screw anyone over buying a 13 license in the next few months only to find out 14 was just about to come out.  I really don't understand all the complaints...

[AussieBill]

As someone who, like Jim's team, makes a living writing software and also happens to be a MediaCenter user since MC10, I gotta say the upgrade pricing is fine and is in line with normal practices.

This is exactly the same as Microsoft announcing that people who buy Windows Vista after date XX/XX/09 will get a free upgrade to Windows 7 when it is available on XX+x/XX+x/09.  Companies do this all the time to stop people "holding out" for the soon-to-be-released new version, which cannibalizes sales of the existing version. It really messes up revenue flow, and remember, J River is a business that relies on incoming revenue to survive.

To the early adopters of 13, like me!, what are you really asking for?  You got the whole "cycle" of use of 13 and then don't want to pay for 14? That's 2 version cycles for one upgrade fee!  The folks buying 13 (with the free upgrade) are barely going to use 13!; it's basically buying 14, but as 14 isn't ripe yet, here, use this old 13 until then!

As for the cut-off dates, they are unfortunate, but there will always be edge cases. If Jim moves the date back one week or month for one, then THAT date becomes the new edge, and people will complain about just missing that date.

You can increase the number of Most Recently Used Commands.  Go to Tree and View/Advanced and change the number for "Right click recent command count".  Not sure if that helps, but worth a try.  Please start a thread if you need help.

Man!! This gem from Jim just guaranteed my 2x bucks for 14, I must have missed this enhancement, I was SO sick of having to keep selecting my most-used commands, I can't believe I hadn't noticed it!  

I almost look at MC as a subscription-based software that I can stop upgrading at any time and stick with a version if I need to. And at $2x a year (sometimes $15), it's a steal for the most used piece of software I own, other than Windows or OS X.

However!  JimH I really wish/hope that you guys try to make the Theater view a priority in 14.  PLEASE make it user skinnable and themeable, have a look at what "kids" have done with the skins for XBox Media Center, if you could get that into 14, that'd be awesome.

[Gl3nn]

Whence comes this sense of entitlement?  I'm flummoxed by these feelings and beliefs.  Only with software are these freebies demanded, expected.  The gas/electric company isn't giving me 2 months free credit for being with them for years, nor are any of: the satellite company, water, sewer, garbage, the car dealer, grocery store, ISP, computer mfg., cab company, health, life, dental, auto insurance companies, the bank for the mortgage, health club, tailor, barber, restaurants.  And Dell is not tossing any lifetime of computer's my way because I've purchased a few in the past, and neither is Apple.  I don't recall seeing boxes of free stereo equipment on the front porch.  And even after many years of purchasing milk... I'm still... purchasing milk.

Please people - get over this feeling that because you spent a whopping $50 or so, that a company owes you a lifetime worth of loyalty and freebies.  That's NUTS!

Grocery?  Yes, they do.  Car dealerships?  Yes, they do.  Restaurants, Starbucks, etc, etc... yes, they do.  Insurance?  Uhhh... yes again. 

The other "examples" you mention are not examples, nor are they as discretionary in nature.  I don't have much choice when it comes to selecting my garbage company or gas/electric service.... I do when it comes to flying... and as for software...  I hope you can figure out where that falls.

It's not about the price!

[benn600]

I purchased Adobe Creative Suite version 3 last summer.  Before I could even blink, CS4 was released.  Adobe denied me a free upgrade.  Who in their right mind has not gone through this exact scenario MULTIPLE times?  Get used to it.  Do I have to list all the times this happened to me?  It happens with cars, electronics, CPUs, ...  In this case, we're talking hundreds (or thousands of dollars) and I took the opportunity to not upgrade.  I'll skip a version.

I mean honestly: $20 is clearly nothing compared to a thousand bucks.  What about all those people who spend hundreds a month on their stupid cell phone?  I dread and hate cell phones to the n-th degree.  We're getting into a huge fight over the bargain of the year.

I think back to spending $130 for a 64MB memory card.  It isn't fair that people today can get probably a 64GB memory card for that price.  None of this is new.

I'm tired of hearing this type of discussion arise time after time.

[4BYE]

Whence comes this sense of entitlement?  I'm flummoxed by these feelings and beliefs.  Only with software are these freebies demanded, expected.  The gas/electric company isn't giving me 2 months free credit for being with them for years, nor are any of: the satellite company, water, sewer, garbage, the car dealer, grocery store, ISP, computer mfg., cab company, health, life, dental, auto insurance companies, the bank for the mortgage, health club, tailor, barber, restaurants.  And Dell is not tossing any lifetime of computer's my way because I've purchased a few in the past, and neither is Apple.  I don't recall seeing boxes of free stereo equipment on the front porch.  And even after many years of purchasing milk... I'm still... purchasing milk.

Please people - get over this feeling that because you spent a whopping $50 or so, that a company owes you a lifetime worth of loyalty and freebies.  That's NUTS!

The good news for you is that you get a lifetime of free rights to vote your feelings with your $$$, as you see fit.

I can't see what's going on in your country but overhere in the Netherlands we do get real good deals from different companies. Car-deals were never that good, and gas-companies give discounts when you sign for some years. In our grocery stores there's a war over the top products selling for less. You get better deals with phones, Dell gives discounts etc. etc. Ofcourse this is partly due to the economy. Even in my tiny store I give people that have come for a longer time better deals than the one time buyer.
Sometimes it's not about the money but being appreciated as a customer.

@Ben

Why is it relevant talking about cell phone bills and buying goods that you know will be cheaper later in time?
For some people $ 20,00 is a lot of money where other find $ 1.000.000,00 peanuts.

I guess our points are made. Lets see what MC 14 will bring...

[rick.ca]

I almost look at MC as a subscription-based software that I can stop upgrading at any time and stick with a version if I need to.

I often wonder why software like this is not offered on a subscription basis. That is, a 365-day fixed-price license that entitles the user to download an install anything version they like and use it for a lifetime. Offer a substantial discount if and only if the licence is renewed before the existing one expires. Simple, fair, easy to administer. And then I remember... Most people can't be happy unless they can get a "deal" that makes them "special." Well, it seems they're going to whine no matter what. So maybe it's time to bite the bullet. Besides, the world will be better place without JimH in leather.

[AussieBill]

Existing, loyal customers DO get a break, it's called upgrade pricing.  That's the part where you pay around HALF of the normal cost of the new version of the product.

As some have noted this complaining happens every upgrade and it gets old.

If you combine the comments, it seems as though some folks wanted to basically get MC13 early on for about 10 bucks ( a big loyalty discount) and then get MC14 free (because the new users are getting it) .

And from googling the cost of stuff in the Netherlands, 20 bucks US is about 14 euros, which is about the cost of a dish in a chinese restaurant. What you can afford to spend is your business but for me, the cost of one meal for a year  (or forever if you don't upgrade again) is a bargain for this software.

Just my opinion.

[Mr ChriZ]

I often wonder why software like this is not offered on a subscription basis. That is, a 365-day fixed-price license that entitles the user to download an install anything version they like and use it for a lifetime. Offer a substantial discount if and only if the licence is renewed before the existing one expires. Simple, fair, easy to administer. And then I remember... Most people can't be happy unless they can get a "deal" that makes them "special." Well, it seems they're going to whine no matter what. So maybe it's time to bite the bullet. Besides, the world will be better place without JimH in leather.

I was going to recommend something like that.  I'd sign up.  It could even be paid on a monthly basis which would give JRiver a trickle of constant income.

I also agree with AussieBill

[4BYE]

Existing, loyal customers DO get a break, it's called upgrade pricing.  That's the part where you pay around HALF of the normal cost of the new version of the product.

As some have noted this complaining happens every upgrade and it gets old.

If you combine the comments, it seems as though some folks wanted to basically get MC13 early on for about 10 bucks ( a big loyalty discount) and then get MC14 free (because the new users are getting it) .

And from googling the cost of stuff in the Netherlands, 20 bucks US is about 14 euros, which is about the cost of a dish in a chinese restaurant. What you can afford to spend is your business but for me, the cost of one meal for a year  (or forever if you don't upgrade again) is a bargain for this software.

Just my opinion.

You're right about the cheap dollar... There were times it was the other way around too. Still my point is not the money. As I wrote I don't have MC 13 at all and only when MC adds certain things to it that I can use for my purposes I will upgrade. I do think it's worth the money and as I wrote too when it would work for my video needs I'm willing to pay far more for it. So that's not the issue. I can understand the feeling of people buying MC 13 not long ago and then finding out about this deal. That's all.

What I find odd is that nobody actually reacts on what MC 14 will bring... All that fuzz, and it could be around 6 (?) months untill MC 14 can be bought.

[Doof]

I honestly don't see what the big deal is here. Seriously.

I bought an iPod Touch when it first came out. A few months later Apple offered the extra iPhone apps (Mail, etc) for $20. I bought it. A few months after that the 2.0 software was released for $10. And it included the apps I'd already paid $20 for. People who waited got a better deal than I did.

On one occasion, a game company released an MMORPG. I didn't buy it. They later on released an expansion pack, and then another one. Later, they released all three in a bundle that cost significantly less than the three seperately. I bought the bundle and got a better deal than the people who had bought all three seperately.

I'm a customer of Road Runner. I pay $45 a month for internet. One day I noticed a sign offering the first year of RR for $25 a month if you sign up now. I couldn't get that price because I was an existing customer.

Sometimes you luck out and get the deal. Other times you don't. You can wait around and hope for the deal that may never come, or just accept the fact that at some point, somebody's going to get a better deal than you on something, but know that someday, you're going to get a better deal than somebody else.

This is nothing new. JRiver is not unique in this. And they most certainly are not "punishing" anybody. Are grocery stores punishing people who bought their groceries the day before they had a big sale on meat?

Seriously, you people act like you've never bought anything before.

[Magic_Randy]

I honestly don't see what the big deal is here. Seriously.

I bought an iPod Touch when it first came out. A few months later Apple offered the extra iPhone apps (Mail, etc) for $20. I bought it. A few months after that the 2.0 software was released for $10. And it included the apps I'd already paid $20 for. People who waited got a better deal than I did.

On one occasion, a game company released an MMORPG. I didn't buy it. They later on released an expansion pack, and then another one. Later, they released all three in a bundle that cost significantly less than the three seperately. I bought the bundle and got a better deal than the people who had bought all three seperately.

I'm a customer of Road Runner. I pay $45 a month for internet. One day I noticed a sign offering the first year of RR for $25 a month if you sign up now. I couldn't get that price because I was an existing customer.

Sometimes you luck out and get the deal. Other times you don't. You can wait around and hope for the deal that may never come, or just accept the fact that at some point, somebody's going to get a better deal than you on something, but know that someday, you're going to get a better deal than somebody else.

This is nothing new. JRiver is not unique in this. And they most certainly are not "punishing" anybody. Are grocery stores punishing people who bought their groceries the day before they had a big sale on meat?

Seriously, you people act like you've never bought anything before.

+1

[prod]

I believe this could be another one of those "PR disasters" I keep reading about in the news.

Can't blame JR for trying to drum up some capital.

Still, you surely can't ignore the fact there's a lot of offended customers out there. Not good. Correct me if I'm wrong but I can't remember this kind of ill-feeling with the upgrade from 12-13 or 11-12? What the heck happened?

[JimH]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I can't remember this kind of ill-feeling with the upgrade from 12-13 or 11-12? What the heck happened?

Your memory may be failing.  We've always had some degree of pushback in any transition.

The problem this time, I think, is that people thought we were soliciting MC14 upgrade business on the heels of MC13 upgrade business.  We weren't.

We were trying to get people with MC12 and older versions to upgrade to MC13.  It happened that we were also providing them an MC14 license as a bonus.

People with MC13 licenses were mailed because our databases are separate, and they, I think, thought we were trying to get them to upgrade.  
That was not our intention, and in fact, they can't.  We'll give them another chance at a special price when MC14 appears.

[phalanthus]

i suspect the whingers get all their music free [ illegally] and don't like paying anything at all because of that for the best program they will ever encounter.

[221bBS]

I honestly don't see what the big deal is here. Seriously.

I bought an iPod Touch when it first came out. A few months later Apple offered the extra iPhone apps (Mail, etc) for $20. I bought it. A few months after that the 2.0 software was released for $10. And it included the apps I'd already paid $20 for. People who waited got a better deal than I did.

On one occasion, a game company released an MMORPG. I didn't buy it. They later on released an expansion pack, and then another one. Later, they released all three in a bundle that cost significantly less than the three seperately. I bought the bundle and got a better deal than the people who had bought all three seperately.

I'm a customer of Road Runner. I pay $45 a month for internet. One day I noticed a sign offering the first year of RR for $25 a month if you sign up now. I couldn't get that price because I was an existing customer.

Sometimes you luck out and get the deal. Other times you don't. You can wait around and hope for the deal that may never come, or just accept the fact that at some point, somebody's going to get a better deal than you on something, but know that someday, you're going to get a better deal than somebody else.

This is nothing new. JRiver is not unique in this. And they most certainly are not "punishing" anybody. Are grocery stores punishing people who bought their groceries the day before they had a big sale on meat?

Seriously, you people act like you've never bought anything before.

Nicely said

[4BYE]

i suspect the whingers get all their music free [ illegally] and don't like paying anything at all because of that for the best program they will ever encounter.

That's why I stopped with my CD store about 5 years ago...
The second part is not right: it seems everybody is paying for this program, otherwise they wouldn't be upset in some way or degree!

[benn600]

I think the part that gets me is that the price clearly cannot go much lower!  They could halve the $20 but below that, $7, $4, they are approaching a micro charge and iTunes would have big problems with this if they billed each $1 song separately!  Compare a $50 upgrade price.  Or a $300 upgrade price.  Or $2,500?  Those prices could all be halved substantially over and over.  [2,500 -> 1,250 -> 625 -> 300 -> 150 -> 75 -> 35 -> 20 (now we're at MC's PRICE)]

You can't really push $20 down before it's nonexistent.  Don't forget whatever chunk is taken for credit card fees and used for the overhead of running JRiver.

For the people voicing their concern: do you own ANY paid for software?  I know I am the last one to buy a piece of software.  It just means I didn't spend enough time looking for a free alternative.  In MC's case, everyone agrees without a doubt that it outperforms other programs consistently and effectively.

Maybe a time or two a year I'll run across some software that I end up buying.  Among those purchases, MC has consistently been (to me) the software that will unequivocally get upgraded immediately with no second guess.  I follow this same thought on just a few other products: seasons of shows, favorite musical artists.  Those few items on Earth that are so very important to me--and are always among the cheapest affects--that I do my best to stay on top of their releases only to immediately jump at the chance to purchase.

I still feel that MC is the bargain of the year but obviously some people can't get that.  Unfortunately, I also feel that for it to be this wonder product requires some know how or users can really mess things up.

[Alexx]

I still feel that MC is the bargain of the year but obviously some people can't get that.

And don't forget, for that relatively miniscule registration fee, you not only get the worlds best and continuously fine-tuned multimedia software, you also get these forums for FREE.  I can't begin to count how much I have learned in these forums.  There are some extremely knowledgeable people here who are always willing to help.  I'd pay a yearly subscription fee just to access the JRiver forums.

[Cyn]

Since the days of Media Jukebox (about SIX YEARS), I've purchased several upgrades, and promoted (essentially sold) Media Jukebox/Center to innumerable people.  Currently, I am using v12.0.534 because: A) I cannot afford every upgrade, and B) I prefer to wait for bug-free, major enhancements.  I had every intention of taking advantage of the sale pricing of $19.98 w/a free v14 upgrade on v13.0.171 - I even downloaded & installed it, but then Life got chaotic and I forgot.   

Undoubtedly, J River's Media Center is a fabulous media player/ripper/encoder, with a vast array of exceptional and advanced features not found in the competition.  It's more than satisfied my needs over the years.  Add to that, attentive customer support and constant development, and I cannot imagine a better all-in-one multimedia solution.  That being said, I know many people using various other media players, who are just as faithful and adamant about their product of choice.  Thus, I understand the drive of developers to entice people into switching to their software by offering "deals" to new customers.  However, I'm a FIRM believer in rewarding customer loyalty; first and foremost.  Word of mouth is an invaluable sales tool, and who better to spread the word than long term customers?  With so much competition, and the fact that many people won't use, or don't need, the advanced features found in Media Center, I encourage J River to find pricing models that will both entice new customers, as well as reward loyal users—not only to be fair, but to keep current customers happy, and newer customers coming back for more.

That's my story, and stickin' to it.   

[maxxsid]

I think that's because the 13 was finished in less than a year. I myself was surprised to see the 14 announced so soon. To me the 13 is still something like 12.5
I don't mind going from 12.5 to 14 though.

I believe this could be another one of those "PR disasters" I keep reading about in the news.

Can't blame JR for trying to drum up some capital.

Still, you surely can't ignore the fact there's a lot of offended customers out there. Not good. Correct me if I'm wrong but I can't remember this kind of ill-feeling with the upgrade from 12-13 or 11-12? What the heck happened?

[ramblinflebro]

I just read a post by Jim H, and I hope i understand this correctly. When MC 14 is released there will again be special pricing for MC 13 license holders. I can certainly wait for that. I don't want something for nothing, but I would like for loyalty to be considered. The first license I bought was MJ 8. I also used MusicMatch had a license for lifetime upgrades. You see what happened to them. They sold out and I uninstalled it and have not used it since. I have used a LOT of players, etc and I still have MC the others are gone. So, I will wait patiently for the release of MC 14.