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Author Topic: Is there any way of Updating the "Rating" tag from a 3rd party source?  (Read 1950 times)

jmone

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I've done very little manual tagging of my Audio Files, so most of them do not have any "Rating".  Is there any way of doing a one off auto population of ratings from a 3rd party source?
Thanks
Nathan
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prod

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Re: Is there any way of Updating the "Rating" tag from a 3rd party source?
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2009, 06:06:30 am »

If I understand you correctly, you can import a generated playlist (with your ratings) into MC, then update tags from library. Or you could write/generate a script (in for example javascript or vbscript) that will use MC automation to do this. How simple is it to extract the data from your 3rd party source?
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jmone

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Re: Is there any way of Updating the "Rating" tag from a 3rd party source?
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2009, 05:02:09 pm »

Sorry - Poorly framed question.  When you rip a CD you get tags populated from a third party service but the Rating (Stars) are left blank for you to put your own preferences in.  I know that this will not reflect "my" personal ratings but is there any reliable third party sources that have Rated Music Tracks (eg by popularity in Last-FM, user averages in freeDB etc) that you can use to populate the Rating Tag for your tracks?
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jolo

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Re: Is there any way of Updating the "Rating" tag from a 3rd party source?
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2009, 05:17:09 am »

Nathan,

I understand your question. For myself, I leave them blank as it is my choice. I feel that if I picked it, listen to it and agonized over the encoding of it and filing my audio, than they are all 5 stars as far as I am concerned to me.  :D I mean that.

Music is so subjective, that who would you want to make your decisions for you on who good some music is ??
In my heart of hearts, my favorite music is classic rock and real deal blues. However, after I took a music class in college years ago, I acquired a taste for classical music and I really enjoy Mozart. I remember dating someone, where, when I played Mozart, they wanted me to turn it off immediately because Mozart's music, "got me nervous". She liked some styles that I really didn't like much, like "Kenny G", and soft rock/pop/jazz. Sort of the stuff one might hear in an elevator.
So on Mozart, should I take her opinion and give Mozart two stars and give five stars to Kenny G, Debby Boone, Michael Bolton, and "The worst of Paul McCartney's love song's from his solo albums" ?

It is my opinion, that the worst and I mean worst of all the reviewers, of all art forms, I find music reviewers the absolute worst. They will pick on the most stupid thing, to try to sound intelligent. In addition, I find that there are many, many, songs and albums that I didn't care for too much on first hearing. It is on the third hearing or so that many times, those songs I initially didn't like become long time favorites of mine.  Sometimes, I might pick something up years later, as my taste has consistently expanded.

Anyway, Nathan, the question is:
  • Who do you want to rate the music you have for you?
  • Nathan, aren't you the best person in the world to decide what Nathan, prefers or doesn't prefer?
  • Now that I think of it, there can be some other creative things that can be done with the ratings. Maybe use them to represent the audio quality. Or use them to represent for songs
    that your girlfriend/wife might like, or that seem to be good for parties or different moods.
I've done very little manual tagging of my Audio Files, so most of them do not have any "Rating".  Is there any way of doing a one off auto population of ratings from a 3rd party source?
Thanks
Nathan
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jmone

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Re: Is there any way of Updating the "Rating" tag from a 3rd party source?
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2009, 06:27:52 am »

jolo - of course you are correct and believe it or not I pondered the wisdom of posting this question in the first place. 

My problem is I'll never rate or create playlists for all the tracks in MC (and it's a collection representing the whole family).  For this reason I tend to either build a playing now list as I go, play whole albums, or use a song to seed the Radio function.  It was when using the Radio function (and skipping a fair few tracks I did not feel like listening to) that I was toying with the idea that pre-populating the rating (from ? source) may increase the utility of my listening combined with my apathy..eg Random 3 Star of Better from a particular Genre being a bit like your passive listening choice when you tune into a particular Genre radio station...you get whatever they decide to play but could adjust the ratings as you like.
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rick.ca

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Re: Is there any way of Updating the "Rating" tag from a 3rd party source?
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2009, 05:51:20 pm »

I think I understand what you're looking for. I don't have the patience to rate every track in my library. Even if I did, I don't think the results would be very meaningful. Generally, I like what's in my collection (duh!), so that kind of narrows the possible ratings. Then my judgment of various kinds of music (I couldn't even tell what kinds) seems to vary (maybe with my mood, the season, who knows?). So I know I'm much better off at least starting with someone else's ratings. When I was doing most of my tagging, I found myself regularly referring to allmusic to verify results, get more information, etc. While it's not there for all music, most albums are rated, and several tracks are flagged as "AMG Picks." So my rating scheme became the allmusic album rating for the picks, and that less one for the unpicked. The results aren't perfect, but more objective and consistent than what I would have come up with. With this as a starting point, I then felt comfortable modifying the results. I stuck with the same idea—that all tracks would get an "average" album rating, and some tracks would be rated up or down from there. The results are meaningful to me. If most of the tracks of an album are rated 4, it's top-rated album, and I like those tracks. The few rated 5 are my favourites. In some cases, a few are rated 3—usually meaning I don't mind skipping them.

But even following such a system a lot of work. It would be nice if there were a plugin that could scrape ratings data. Or maybe rating data can be downloaded from somewhere, and then imported to MC.
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jolo

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Re: Is there any way of Updating the "Rating" tag from a 3rd party source?
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2009, 11:49:44 pm »

Rick,
I don't think the results would be very meaningful. Generally, I like what's in my collection (duh!), so that kind of narrows the possible ratings.

I believe you said in a lot more efficient way, what I was trying to say.
I know my own taste better than anyone else does. I also am of the opinion, like I said before, that "music critics", are the worst breed of reviewers. Many times, pure sales are used as well in the ratings, which have absolutely NOTHING to do with quality. Most times, sale and music quality go I opposite ways, because of the oligopoly that there is in the music business.
I am starting to get optimistic about the growth of musicians, that are publishing their music independently, as that movement I think will continue to grow and eventually create an environment, as it was in "my day", when records were sold and small record companies, created by musicians on their own would come up, no Clear Channel to own the radio stations AND the venues and NO MTV. Disk jockies on FM radio would have freedom to play all sorts of music, from albums as well and introduce new artists and earned their spot be merit.

In "the day", when a band created a new record, they toured all over on it, to get exposure to it, have it played as much as possible, something the entire record. Record companies now have literally a $0 budget for new artists development, and would rather spend $250,000 to make a video, than have a band tour. Without the touring, and all of the venues to play in, I think there is a talent gap that is their from musicians who don't get their craft together, by playing live. Nothing like it. That, plus so much was learned backstage or after concerts, by the informal jams that would go on, where bands would share some sound and technique (not copy), with another band. That I heard from a veteran musician, who has either performed on, wrote or produced 14 of what Rolling Stone considered the top 100 songs of all time. Not that the Rolling Stone's ratings give any credibility.

My message is too long, but just one more story about what I mean about touring. I am an enormous Beatle fan and am thrilled with the Rock Band release and FINALLY, re-mastering fo their original tapes. The first single to hit America and shot to the tops of the charts was "Love Me Do". In that song, John Lennon starts it off, with a superb harp (harmonica solo). He was a darn good harp player. BUT, he became good, from when The Beatles were playing live for hours a night in Hamburg Germany, John went over to long time Country/Rockabilly and ole Rock N Roll innovator, Delbert McClinton, who has a really great harmonica style. Delbert, an unknown, playing as a side man for a bar band, showed John about getting that sound. After that, Lennon came up with that cool riff on the Harp, on "Love Me Do", the first of the Beatles singles in the U.S. and playing it with a very mature technique.
There are a million stories like that, musicians learned so much, and inspired other musicians, from playing live and touring. Even if you don't know the name Delbert McClinton, I absolutely, guarantee, that you have heard some of his songs and playing.

Although I was trying to throw in a little humor.
I personally don't care what others think, except for some personal friends, who might send me something to hear or alert me of something.

However, I think it is good to have extra fields in the database, because, with some creativity, they can be used for something other than their intended use.

I am an old fart, IT guy, who has developed many systems. From my vantage point, the only true test of an application, is when it goes to the public and used in real situations. 
I developed a technique, where I would create a few spare fields, as well as the use of customer defined tables, where a customer of the App, can create a table, that defined some category on their own. For example, on an financial App, I once of these type tables, that would be user defined, was used as a need came up, where they wanted to track what airlines employees who traveled used. So they created a simple table, where they defined initials for all of the airlines, then a description, then they can have the table popup, if they forgot the codes and put it in.

While I don't use it, I can see many situations, where the ratings field can be used for all sorts of things.

It is funny, how I am a slob with paper work, yet for my databases and electronic file folders, I am very neat and precise. So, with my multi-media files, I use a file structure that suits my needs and makes it easy for me to find something, know if I loaded it on my COWON, portable player, when I did, the format, the store where I purchased the item, etc.
Plus MC has a ton of fields that can be used and sorted on.

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gappie

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Re: Is there any way of Updating the "Rating" tag from a 3rd party source?
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2009, 04:31:23 am »

I've done very little manual tagging of my Audio Files, so most of them do not have any "Rating".  Is there any way of doing a one off auto population of ratings from a 3rd party source?
Thanks
Nathan
i dont rate my music also, but was just thinking about it. actually the 3 party source sounds interesting as a start. guess it is not there.
one option to get started could be using some playlists based on youre own listening. so based on for instance date imported and the number of plays/skips?

just an idea

 :)
gab
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jmone

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Re: Is there any way of Updating the "Rating" tag from a 3rd party source?
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2009, 04:35:56 am »

I thought I once saw that tracks in WMP had ratings in grey that were from some source....who knows!
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Daydream

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Re: Is there any way of Updating the "Rating" tag from a 3rd party source?
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2009, 10:48:59 pm »

one option to get started could be using some playlists based on youre own listening. so based on for instance date imported and the number of plays/skips?

That is what other programs try to do, autotagging based on playback frequency - strictly numeric (played n times) and / or in time (played/not played for x days back, etc). With some tweaks regarding when a file is considered 'played'. However it's easy to create a circular reference - I will play often only the songs rated 4 and 5 stars. And with that I am truly nowhere :)

For the record I'm manually rating, and I do consider it necessary. But than again, my collection is in the range of 10,000 songs. I have a feeling the problem is a bit different for someone with 20 times that much music.
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gappie

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Re: Is there any way of Updating the "Rating" tag from a 3rd party source?
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2009, 02:00:56 am »

However it's easy to create a circular reference - I will play often only the songs rated 4 and 5 stars. And with that I am truly nowhere :)
it was more like a way to get started based on pre rating time, if it is something you (or some software) keeps doing to maintain the list, then ofcource it will be circular.

 :)
gab
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jmone

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Re: Is there any way of Updating the "Rating" tag from a 3rd party source?
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2009, 03:34:28 pm »

I with Gab, it's not to bad to manually rate the "new" stuff and add to your library but when you start you tend to rip all you'r old CD.  Even a 10,000 track library is going to take a year to rate (assume it takes 20sec per track and spending 1 hour per week on the task). 

Anyway it does not look like anyone knows how to grab this info from a third party source regardless of the "merits" or otherwise of doing so.  :'(
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