Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[jmone]

After getting it all tuned up in older OS, I can not believe it, but I've started playing with this again in my Win 7 setup!  So what are you using for a minimum set of stable, high quality Filters with a good coverage:  eg:

Splitter: Nero or Haali (The std MS ones will not split out DTS in MPG Files for instance)

Video Decoder:  FFDSHOW for as much as possible but does anyone find any issues with this and use specific Filters some some Video Streams eg the new 'Microsoft DTV-DVD Video Decoder' or ones to avoid like the MS DMO decoder with VC1?

Audio Decoder:  FFDSHOW for as much as possible but does anyone find any issues with this and use specific Filters for some Audio Streams eg, AC3?

Video Renderers:  EVR mostly for me but you also have EVR Custom, VMR9, VMP9 Renderless, Haali, MadVR etc etc

Audio Renderers: WASAPI works great for me, also ASIO, Direct Sound, Wac etc

Other Filters:  I tend to use Reclock (Audio Filter) as well as I find a less jittery output, some like it for pitch correction on PAL material as well.

[jmone]

For those interested in a simple GUI for filter selection one of the FFDSHOW authors have this tool http://85.230.118.136/showthread.php?t=146910

[glynor]

Splitter: Generally Haali or built-in filters (the version included with CCCP, though a new one will likely be released soon in concert with CoreAVC 2.0)

Video Decoder:  CoreAVC for MPEG-4 AVC content.  FFDSHOW for most everything else, though I let the Microsoft filters handle DVD/MPEG-2 decoding now.

Audio Decoder:  FFDSHOW

Video Renderers:  EVR

Audio Renderers: I've left it alone.  I don't really know much about audio rendering.  I know ASPI is lower latency, but it hasn't ever been an issue with my system.  I don't think my sound device is high-enough quality for it to matter.

Other Filters:  I don't live in PAL-Land so I don't usually need to use ReClock.  Nothing, really.

[MrHaugen]

I use pretty much the same as you Jmone, with a few exceptions

Splitter: Haali
Video Decoder:  CoreAVC for MKV's, FFDSHOW for as much as possible
Audio Decoder:  AC3 or FFDShow
Video Renderers: VMR9 renderless
Audio Renderers: WASAPI
Other Filters:  Reclock

[jmone]

So is CoreAVC that good?

[MrHaugen]

It's the only one I've tried that give you stutter-less 1080P playback. There might be alternatives, but I don't know of any.

[jmone]

It's the only one I've tried that give you stutter-less 1080P playback. There might be alternatives, but I don't know of any.

Mmmm - My stuttering issues really receded once upgrading my HTPC to a Q6600 and the main PC to a i7, both with Win 7 and a ATI HD4550....Some filters like MS DMO stutter badly but FFDSHOW seems to work fine for File based playback, and TMT for Disc Based playback....

[Mike Noe]

Splitter: Haali, for all formats

Video Decoder:  FFDSHOW, Microsoft DTV-DVD Video Decoder, CoreAVC, MPC Video Decoder

Audio Decoder:  FFDSHOW

Video Renderers:  madVR in MPC-HC, EVR in MC14, EVR-CP in MplayercGS (Goth sync version).  madVR provides the best quality all around.

Audio Renderers: Reclock -> WASAPI excl -> ATI HDMI device and/or VIA S/PDIF device

I have 4 "zones" set up in MC14, one for each video decoder for testing and GPU playback if I'm encoding with the CPU.

Win7 Ult x64, dual mon, playback on mon2, Aero on.  I didn't think Win7 could offer the same stability and perf that my older XP HTPC did, but it blows it away.

[HiFiTubes]

Installing CCCP for Haali and then using CoreAVC, but then I downgraded from Q6600 to an AMD 45watt dual core with HD3200 onboard and all I do is install CCCP and let the MS HD-DTV decoder run by default for 1080P MKV over library server with no stuttering and 3-6% cpu usage.

 The strange thing is my main HTPC is the same HD3200 and I was getting stutters because I had manually set the source filter to Haali. If I find an improperly encoded MKV I switch over to another zone with CoreAVC.

Filter Graph Info:

    Filter 'Default DirectSound Device'
        CLSID: {79376820-07D0-11CF-A24D-0020AFD79767}
        Host: C:\Windows\SysWOW64\quartz.dll
        Input Pin 'Audio Input pin (rendered)'
            Connected to pin 'Out' of filter 'ffdshow Audio Decoder'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_PCM, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx

    Filter 'Enhanced Video Renderer'
        CLSID: {FA10746C-9B63-4B6C-BC49-FC300EA5F256}
        Host: C:\Windows\SysWOW64\evr.dll
        Input Pin 'EVR Input0'
            Connected to pin 'Video Output 1' of filter 'Microsoft DTV-DVD Video Decoder'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_NV12, Format type FORMAT_VideoInfo2
        Input Pin 'EVR Input1'

    Filter 'ffdshow Audio Decoder'
        CLSID: {0F40E1E5-4F79-4988-B1A9-CC98794E6B55}
        Host: C:\Program Files (x86)\Combined Community Codec Pack\Filters\FFDShow\ffdshow.ax
        Output Pin 'Out'
            Connected to pin 'Audio Input pin (rendered)' of filter 'Default DirectSound Device'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_PCM, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx
        Input Pin 'In'
            Connected to pin 'Output' of filter 'JRiver Media Proxy Audio'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio  Sub type Unknown GUID Name: {00002001-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx

    Filter 'Microsoft DTV-DVD Video Decoder'
        CLSID: {212690FB-83E5-4526-8FD7-74478B7939CD}
        Host: C:\Windows\SysWOW64\msmpeg2vdec.dll
        Input Pin 'Video Input'
            Connected to pin 'Output' of filter 'JRiver Media Proxy Video'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type Unknown GUID Name: {31435641-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}, Format type FORMAT_MPEG2_VIDEO
        Input Pin 'Subpicture Input'
        Output Pin 'Video Output 1'
            Connected to pin 'EVR Input0' of filter 'Enhanced Video Renderer'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_NV12, Format type FORMAT_VideoInfo2
        Output Pin '~Line21 Output'

    Filter 'JRiver Media Proxy Audio'
        CLSID: {A4207487-E7D8-406B-9882-B66370DE2492}
        Host:
        Input Pin 'Input'
            Connected to pin 'Audio' of filter 'http://192.168.0.194:49997/G:^5cFilm^5cWatchmen.mkv'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio  Sub type Unknown GUID Name: {00002001-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx
        Output Pin 'Output'
            Connected to pin 'In' of filter 'ffdshow Audio Decoder'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio  Sub type Unknown GUID Name: {00002001-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx

    Filter 'JRiver Media Proxy Video'
        CLSID: {A4207487-E7D8-406B-9882-B66370DE2492}
        Host:
        Input Pin 'Input'
            Connected to pin 'Video' of filter 'http://192.168.0.194:49997/G:^5cFilm^5cWatchmen.mkv'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type Unknown GUID Name: {31435641-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}, Format type FORMAT_MPEG2_VIDEO
        Output Pin 'Output'
            Connected to pin 'Video Input' of filter 'Microsoft DTV-DVD Video Decoder'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type Unknown GUID Name: {31435641-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}, Format type FORMAT_MPEG2_VIDEO

    Filter 'http://192.168.0.194:49997/G:^5cFilm^5cWatchmen.mkv'
        CLSID: {55DA30FC-F16B-49FC-BAA5-AE59FC65F82D}
        Host: C:\Program Files (x86)\Combined Community Codec Pack\Filters\Haali\splitter.ax
        Output Pin 'Video'
            Connected to pin 'Input' of filter 'JRiver Media Proxy Video'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type Unknown GUID Name: {31435641-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}, Format type FORMAT_MPEG2_VIDEO
        Output Pin 'Audio'
            Connected to pin 'Input' of filter 'JRiver Media Proxy Audio'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio  Sub type Unknown GUID Name: {00002001-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx

[raym]

Same filters here overall. What are the gotchas (if any) with x64 Win7 and these filters?

[glynor]

Same filters here overall. What are the gotchas (if any) with x64 Win7 and these filters?

CoreAVC isn't 100% stable on Windows 7 64-bit, but it has worked fine in MC for me (I've only had issues with it in other applications, like Windows Media Player).  CoreAVC 2.0 is supposedly coming out any day now, and will fix these issues.

[Daydream]

Can you please explain why so much love for CoreAVC? It's paid software, while there are free alternatives. Nobody mentions using CUDA so I'll just say that free hardware decoding (MPC Video decoder) is much more optimized then running something on software on the CPU; less power used to do the same thing.

Thoughts?

[rpalmer68]

Can you please explain why so much love for CoreAVC? It's paid software, while there are free alternatives. Nobody mentions using CUDA so I'll just say that free hardware decoding (MPC Video decoder) is much more optimized then running something on software on the CPU; less power used to do the same thing.

Thoughts?

I'm still on XP  (yeah I know Nathan ... it's time!)  but I must say I have just started playing back Blu-ray rips as  mkv files and with the MPC Video decoder my CPU is a nice low 6% with hardware decoding enabled.

 Richard

[glynor]

Can you please explain why so much love for CoreAVC?

It works VERY well for decoding my 1080p H264 recordings that come off of my HD-PVR.  FFDSHOW drops frames every once in a while even on my Core 2 Quad Q9550 @ 3.5GHz.  I have lots MORE problems with my laptop (a Core 2 Duo Macbook Pro).  Also, I have problems with seeking the files with FFDSHOW that go away with CoreAVC.  Plus, I use BeyondTV for Live TV and it works well with CoreAVC.

I have not experimented heavily with the MPC-HC Decoder.  However, DXVA decoding typically breaks things like VobSub.  How does the MPC-HC decoder work with MC and other third-party applications?  Is it fiddly to get set or does it work well as a set-it-and-forget-it option?

For $15 or whatever piddly amount they charge for it, it is worth it for my needs.

[Daydream]

MPC Video decoder works very well for me with MC (that is after killing Win7 built-in decoders). I'd say set it and forget is the case, although generalization is dangerous. h264 and VC-1 1080p fly in single digits CPU utilization. It will accelerate in hardware only what the hardware knows of course, so anything past Main Profile Level 4.1 (for MPEG-4) reverts to software decoding. MPEG-2 4:2:2 is also a no go, that always worked for me only with Elecard decoders (where the heck in Europe are they producing those vids???)

All MPC filters are available in both x32 and x64 versions, but until there's a Haali x64 splitter I don't think too much about a full x64 decoding chain.

CoveAVC remains of course the best software decoder, much faster than ffdshow. That YouTube clip showing CoreAVC 2.0 64bit w/Haali 64bit bypassing MediaFoundation was pretty interesting. But at this point the Haali component is more interesting for me.

[struct]

I was using the MPC hardware decoder after a Sharky codec install.  It was basically set and forget and seemed to work ok.  However, I stopped using it because if I went from a full size window to a smaller one and back again, I got an artifact around the border (a green line).  Stopped using it but not sure if it was a problem with MC or the filter (guess I should try similar in MPC-HC) or something else.

Craig

[jmone]

I also get the green line from time to time with different filters / apps (sometimes at the bottom, sometimes at the right).  I think it seems to be an ATI driver issues with some filters / apps.

For $15 I'll give the CoreAVC a go once V2 comes out, but as I play most of my HD from disc / ISO over MKV/TS I have to use TMT's (and therefore their inbuilt filter chain....

[Mike Noe]

How does the MPC-HC decoder work with MC and other third-party applications?

Really well with MC, in fact, better, IMO, than it works with MPC-HC (internal).  To give it a quick test, just set up a zone (not necessary, but allows you to quickly switch back and forth), go to file types and pick a type (like mkv), set the filter graph, configure MPC Video Decoder for the content (h.264 DXVA) and choose EVR (assuming you're on Vista/Win7, choose VMR9 on XP).  You'll have to download the MPC Standalone filters and Register MPCVideoDecoder.ax.

I've been using this with MC for a while now, it's come a long way.

[glynor]

Question... It has been SO long since I've played with all of this in MC.  Is there any way to set the default Video Renderer for DirectShow Playback to EVR (or Haali or something else) for ALL video file types?  Will "Automatic" just use EVR by default anyway on Windows 7?

[Yaobing]

Question... It has been SO long since I've played with all of this in MC.  Is there any way to set the default Video Renderer for DirectShow Playback to EVR (or Haali or something else) for ALL video file types?  Will "Automatic" just use EVR by default anyway on Windows 7?

EVR is the default (i.e. Automatic) for Vista and above.

[glynor]

Yaobing... No way to alter the Automatic setting for all videos though, if I wanted it to default to something else for all file types?

[Matt]

Yaobing... No way to alter the Automatic setting for all videos though, if I wanted it to default to something else for all file types?

You can multi-select in the File Types list and change any number of types at once.

We need to figure out how to make this more obvious, because it's a common question.

[jmone]

You can multi-select in the File Types list and change any number of types at once.

We need to figure out how to make this more obvious, because it's a common question.

Thanks - There's the one thing I learned today

[glynor]

Thanks - There's the one thing I learned today

Same here.  I had no idea.

[Yaobing]

This solution actually is not ideal for what glynor has asked for.  When you select multiple file types, the entire filter selection is applied to all file types selected.  glynor wants only the video renderer selection applied to all types, correct?

[lalittle]

This may be a dumb question, but is the CCCP pack still "needed" when using MC14 with win7, or does win7 plus MC14 come with "built in" filters will make "most" files play back without installing the pack?  I'm still a bit confused by the whole filter situation -- i.e. what is "necessary" vs what is done for "preference" reasons.

Thanks,

Larry

[glynor]

glynor wants only the video renderer selection applied to all types, correct?

Correct.  I just wanted a global way to change the video renderer.  Generally, you'd want that to be the same for all file types (though having the option to override it on a per-file-type basis is sure nice too).

[glynor]

This may be a dumb question, but is the CCCP pack still "needed" when using MC14 with win7, or does win7 plus MC14 come with "built in" filters will make "most" files play back without installing the pack?  I'm still a bit confused by the whole filter situation -- i.e. what is "necessary" vs what is done for "preference" reasons.

That depends on your media files... If you use only AVI and MP4 file types, and generally only MPEG-4 ASP or AVC (XviD or H264) content, with no need for anything fancy like subtitle support, then the answer is yes.  Windows 7 comes with all the filters you need for these content types.

However, if you want MKV support, subtitle support, and AC3 support then you'll need more, and CCCP is a good choice for simplicity.  There are also other things that the Win7 built-in filters don't support (specialty H264 profiles and settings and DXVA/CUDA acceleration, for example), though these are more specialty options, and you'll generally "know" if you need them.

For me... I absolutely NEED MKV, AC3, and Subtitle support, so sticking with the defaults wasn't really an option.

[JustinChase]

I recently finished the HTPC build, so the timing of this topic is quite fortunate for me

I looked around quite a bit, and decided to install the Shark007 codec pack, and it pretty much works as advertised.  However, it doesn't play ape files in WMP in the x64 expansion, and the developer said that's because there is no x64 codec for ape file playback.

Is this true, and if so, is there a x64 ape codec in the works?  I've recently made the switch to x64 when I installed W7, and would obviously like to keep everything x64 if possible.  I will end up using MC theater view, but I do want to play around with Windows Media Center also, and it's only x64 to match the W7 install, so no ape playback

In addition to this, the ape files originally worked in at least the x86 version of WMP when I freshly installed the Shark007 codec pack, but after getting a few other things installed, like MPC-HC, MC, Flash, Java and AVG, ape files no longer play in either version of MWP.

I'm using this as a bit of a test case/machine for now, until I install the new motherboard (to allow dual simultaneous digital audio output ), and then I'll do the "final" install.  I'd like to work out a few of the compatibility bugs in the meantime.

Anyone know why ape file playback breaks in WMP after installing the above programs?

Finally, since MC is a 32-bit software, can it be configured to use only the x64 filters for the entire playback chain?  Do I really need/want to do that?  is there any advantage either way?  I only have 4gig memory, so some help from x64, but not too much I imagine in the real world.

[Daydream]

There is no mix and match. x64 player with x64 codecs OR x86 player with x86 codecs.
Which should tell you that in the grand picture of all things popular that one needs to play on a PC you'll face more trouble than just ape files while trying to stay entirely x64.

I'm not saying that you can't do it, just that things get more complicated than just installing a codec pack (which to me it's an idea that always makes me have a knee-jerk reaction). Does an experimental ffdshow x64 build decode your ape files?

[JustinChase]

Yeah, I wasn't too gung-ho on the codec pack either, but it promised to play every file in any player, and a nice/ease control panel to manage it all, either in 32 or 64 bit.  It pretty much delivered, but not ape files

I would be happy to try the x64 ffdshow build, but I'm not sure where to find it, and if it's got a x64 ape codec.  does one even exist?

If you point me to it, I'll certainly give it a try.

thanks!

[glynor]

I've recently made the switch to x64 when I installed W7, and would obviously like to keep everything x64 if possible.

It isn't obvious to me.  Can you explain what tangible benefits 64-bit registers provide you with when it comes to decoding filters at this time?  I can see it with a full fledged codec that you are using to encode video (x264, for example), but for decode filters, why do you care?

Or is it just the "OMG, the 64-bitness must be superior!" thing...?

[Daydream]

I would be happy to try the x64 ffdshow build, but I'm not sure where to find it, and if it's got a x64 ape codec.  does one even exist?

Keep in mind I was suggesting it, me personally I never tried it for ape files. As for x64 builds... google.com... ffdshow x64... first hit... bingo!  gets us where we need to go (that's an OK site to read), and the sourceforge link is somewhere down the page, or for expediting here.

Of course, you play with it at your own risk, if it hijacks all your media extensions and try to play every format, if it messes previous x64 or x86 filters/codecs that's your trial and error exercise.

BTW Glynor is absolutely right, a full x64 decoding chain is placebo, it doesn't make anything better than a x86 one. Not so far anyway.

[JustinChase]

It isn't obvious to me.  Can you explain what tangible benefits 64-bit registers provide you with when it comes to decoding filters at this time?  I can see it with a full fledged codec that you are using to encode video (x264, for example), but for decode filters, why do you care?

Or is it just the "OMG, the 64-bitness must be superior!" thing...?

You are correct, I guess in retrospect I misspoke. 

What I think I meant to say is that since the operating system is 64 bit, it seems like it would be better to keep everything 64 bit.  However, I do not yet know as much on the topic as I'd like.

Based on your response, I assume there is no advantage to doing this currently.  Especially if using MC TheaterView for everything as it's a 32 bit player anyway, correct?  I assume I can setup MC to use only 32 bit versions of everything for it's processing.

Is there any disadvantage to using a full 64 bit chain, other than the hassle of getting it setup/working correctly?  My researching seems to indicate that I can now get everything required to keep a 64 bit path.  if correct, and once properly set up, there shouldn't be any problems or issues with doing this, correct?

Is there potential for 64 bit to be better than 32 for playback, eventually?  Is it only encoding that would potentially gain from 64 bit?  And would that only be due to the increased memory capability?

I'm going to install the ffdshow x64 tomorrow and test.  if it does happen to playback ape file, how can I figure out which filter/codec is making that happen so I can install it by itself, or is this a waste of time, and it's better to just leave the full ffdshow installed (vs the tryout version)?

I'm going to swap my motherboard this weekend, so I'm going to take this step by step when installing everything to see if/when something starts working and if/when it stops, so I can try to figure what works for me and what doesn't.

thanks for all the good feedback and help/guidance.

[Daydream]

I'm going to install the ffdshow x64 tomorrow and test.  if it does happen to playback ape file, how can I figure out which filter/codec is making that happen so I can install it by itself, or is this a waste of time, and it's better to just leave the full ffdshow installed (vs the tryout version)?

You're perception is slightly wrong. ffdshow IS a codec/directshow filter in itself, it's not a package. It does have two parts, for video and audio but that's one complete product, not a collection of N+1 codecs. It does decode everything and then some (which is good... and bad sometimes) because that's the way it is developed.

Now, to save you the trouble which I might've inadvertently cause with my question/suggestion above (which I'm curious why nobody, especially here, didn't cut the whole idea short), ffdshow won't help you with the ape files, so you can put that idea to rest, unless you don't need the respective decoder for something else.

[glynor]

What I think I meant to say is that since the operating system is 64 bit, it seems like it would be better to keep everything 64 bit.  However, I do not yet know as much on the topic as I'd like.

I suspected as much.  It is NOT better to keep everything 64-bit.  In fact, often 64-bit applications will provide no tangible performance benefit and will typically require more physical RAM to operate than they would in 32-bit mode.  In some cases the memory bloat can be quite substantial.

The beauty of the x86-64 extension that AMD developed is that it allows you to run 32-bit code in a 64-bit environment without any performance penalty at all.  Unlike Intel's initial strategy (the now-defunct Itanium CPU), this allows 32-bit and 64-bit code to coexist seamlessly.  When an application needs the address space provided by a 64-bit executable, you can use one (assuming you have a 64-bit OS and CPU).  But there is absolutely nothing inherently "better" about 64-bit applications on a modern 64-bit OS and CPU at all.

I explain it quite well here: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=53805.msg368400#msg368400

EDIT:  I should add... There are some theoretical benefits to moving decode filters to 64-bit executables.  Both encoders and decoders are quite math-heavy, and having faster/easier access to both higher precision floating point and double-long variables could be beneficial.  However, I don't think any of the common decoders are anywhere NEAR to the point where they provide any tangible user-benefit for being 64-bit.  We are WAY too early in the process for that.

Right now, they are most PORTING the code over to compile in 64-bit mode.  They aren't redesigning the code to work better in 64-bit.  There are surely some exceptions to this, but then there are also surely some performance problems introduced by this porting process.  To really benefit from any of these advantages, it will take some time to sort itself all out.  Even then, without a complete ground-up rewrite, you might not really see much benefit.

If someone can show me non-cherrypicked benchmarks that show a dramatic benefit with the 64-bit versions of FFDSHOW and whatnot, then maybe I'd invest the time and effort.  Until then...

Keep It Simple, Stupid.

[jmone]

Hi Glynor - with Blu-ray to HD-DVD conversions is there any point in transcoding the Audio to Flac/WAV anymore as the latest versions of FFDSHOW are now decoding most of the HD Audio...(and I see they are also working on bitstreaming these as well).  I've got a heap of Blu-ray / HD-DVD I want to put onto the server to take advantage of the DLNA streaming MC is now developing and I don't care about any space savings in the resultant MKV, just looking at keeping the quality as high as possible.  If that is the case, the way I see it is the only other thing that needs to be transcoded is the Subs (until they add SUP support that is)....the rest can just be remuxed to MKV.

Thanks
Nathan

PS -

[Daydream]

Flac is faster . Meaning your receiver doesn't need to lock on the TrueHD/DTS-MA stream (check when you skip ahead / back especially), which introduces some delay. Flac also will play on anything that can bitstream LPCM 7.1; otherwise one needs to upgrade everything to Ati 5xxx cards. Not a problem for me, but just saying. All the Revo-like devices will be powerless faced with the streams, which denies the pleasure of the exercise. Until they come with appropriate integrated chipsets.

Can you bitstream the original sound with ffdshow from MC? I can't. It detects just the core at best, and only when muxed in ts/mt2s. Nothing works for TrueHD/DTS-MA but the latest MPC-HC. Are you guys getting better results?

Anyways, I'm in the same boat. +125 Blu-Rays to rip. Flac or original streams? (which are also faster to rip)

[jmone]

Daydream - the other option is WAV/PCM - works with everthing, 100% to the original (as it is the decoded audio stream) and has Nil decoding overhead when playing...the downside is it will take another 1-3GB per disk but in the overal scheme of things that is sod all.

FYI - there is a branch of FFDSHOW that is about to be integrated into the core that will support bitstreaming (you will need an ATI 5XXX series card, and an HDMI receiver that can decoder it).  Also from what I understand, FFDSHOW can now decode to LPCM - EAC3 (DD+), DTS-HD, Dolby True HD but DTS-HD Master Audio is so far Core only (1.5mbps).....

Thanks
Nathan

[glynor]

I'm not really the right person to ask on this, but I would probably go with original streams.  Flac would be better in most "technical" circumstances.  However, I would guess that most software development in the decode filters will focus on handling the original stream formats first, before spreading out to integrate better flac support.

Besides, if you choose to encode the original streams, and then two years from now you want to switch over to FLAC, you can always switch at that time from then on.  If you choose FLAC now and then you decide that it might not have been the best plan, your only real option to fix it later would be to re-rip your back library.

But...

I really need to get a good receiver for my HTPC so that I can enjoy some actually good audio quality.  Right now, I have some very nice speakers (Klipsch), but my amp is an old, terribly noisy POS, that doesn't have ANY sort of digital input on it.  Everything out of my system is analog.

I tried to go all-digital a long time ago with my sound system, but failed.  That was before computers were able to encode a digital stream on the fly for all sound output.  I discovered, much to my dismay, that I could only use the digital outputs for movie playback, and needed to use analog outputs for gaming and system sounds.  This wouldn't work for me at all, so I returned the receiver that I bought and just got myself a (much) cheaper analog 5.1 job.

It really does annoy me that all of the good quality receivers are "loaded up" with tons of inputs and features that I don't need at all.  I really only need 1-2 digital inputs (HDMI, probably).  The only "device" I EVER use on my tv is my computer.  Maybe eventually I'll get a game console, so having 2 would be good, but I certainly don't need all the other fancy switching capabilities built into most of them.

Sigh...

[Daydream]

Daydream - the other option is WAV/PCM - works with everthing, 100% to the original (as it is the decoded audio stream) and has Nil decoding overhead when playing...the downside is it will take another 1-3GB per disk but in the overal scheme of things that is sod all.

To better place it in the context, the original lossless (or the FLAC equivalent, which surprisingly encodes marginally better) is ~1.5GB; the LPCM equivalent is 3.5-4.5GB, up to 3 times the source. Multiplying with the number of movies stored -> LPCM not an option, even if I hit 40TB storage resouces.

FLAC... I have a lot of stuff ripped already as FLAC 5.1-7.1. But call it placebo, I'd like to see the lights come up on the receiver. Not so placebo through, the original streams have meta-information regarding how the sound should be processed - channel levels, etc. That doesn't get preserved.

FYI - there is a branch of FFDSHOW that is about to be integrated into the core that will support bitstreaming

Yeap, we're discussing in the same context, the latest tryouts that Albain is spitting out rapid-fire style, and whatever else they are going to commit to the core branch. I can't get lossless to work with MC, regardless what I tried. I don't have control over the audio renderer in MC, although I don't if that makes a difference since even graphedit crashes (or picks up just the core). MPC-HC is the only thing that bitstreams lossless for me, with ffdshow.

Regarding the other problem, the format, I'm kind of upset 'cause I can't get mkv to work with lossless and ffdshow tryouts. Playing it back in anything is a video slideshow (audio is fine). Only m2ts or ts work and I wish I didn't have to index another video container in my collection.

[jmone]

To better place it in the context, the original lossless (or the FLAC equivalent, which surprisingly encodes marginally better) is ~1.5GB; the LPCM equivalent is 3.5-4.5GB, up to 3 times the source. Multiplying with the number of movies stored -> LPCM not an option, even if I hit 40TB storage resources.

FLAC... I have a lot of stuff ripped already as FLAC 5.1-7.1. But call it placebo, I'd like to see the lights come up on the receiver. Not so placebo through, the original streams have meta-information regarding how the sound should be processed - channel levels, etc. That doesn't get preserved.

No argument it is bigger, but not relativly so compated to the whole file....One Example I have to hand is:  Original DTSMA = 4gb, WAV = 5.7gb, FLAC = 2.8gb + 25GB for the video, so the finished file ranges between 28 and 31GB pending the Audio....

I'm not bitstreaming HD with my current setup - so it is all decoded to PCM by the HTPC anyway...so for me at present I decode and transmit PCM, so decode and store then transmit is a valid option.

Yeap, we're discussing in the same context, the latest tryouts that Albain is spitting out rapid-fire style, and whatever else they are going to commit to the core branch.

It has been merged today. 

I can't get lossless to work with MC, regardless what I tried. I don't have control over the audio renderer in MC, although I don't if that makes a difference since even graphedit crashes (or picks up just the core). MPC-HC is the only thing that bitstreams lossless for me, with ffdshow.  Regarding the other problem, the format, I'm kind of upset 'cause I can't get mkv to work with lossless and ffdshow tryouts. Playing it back in anything is a video slideshow (audio is fine). Only m2ts or ts work and I wish I didn't have to index another video container in my collection.

I'm using FFDSHOW to decode all my HD Audio that is then sent as LPCM to the receiver over HDMI perfectly from both MKV and TS from inside MC.....I'll post a filter chain if it helps...

[Daydream]

Yeah, see... if the lights on the receiver don't blink Master Audio or TrueHD I'm not happy. Decoding on the PC side and feeding LPCM, that works, but... that's not why I bought the receiver!

[JimH]

Yeah, see... if the lights on the receiver don't blink Master Audio or TrueHD I'm not happy. Decoding on the PC side and feeding LPCM, that works, but... that's not why I bought the receiver!

Maybe you said above, but are you giving the receiver an unprocessed digital signal?

[jmone]

Yeah, see... if the lights on the receiver don't blink Master Audio or TrueHD I'm not happy. Decoding on the PC side and feeding LPCM, that works, but... that's not why I bought the receiver!

I actually understand....While I don't think I could hear the difference on where the decoding is done, I find I'm always checking in the SW what Audio stream has been selected instead - that said, it is a small price to pay to 1) Replace Receiver, 2) Replace HDMI Card, 3) Play with SW Configs again to have lose little lights come on....but it sure would feel good...

[Daydream]

Maybe you said above, but are you giving the receiver an unprocessed digital signal?

Yes. Using the latest ffdshow (audio) I can bitstream DTS-MA and Dolby TrueHD, in MPC, from .ts or .m2ts files (lights come up). Note that MPC is using it's own splitter for m2ts, not Haali. From mkv, still in MPC-HC, sound is OK, video is a slideshow (and I'm using the latest Haali). All of these are in MPC-HC, with the audio renderer set to Default DirectSound device. I only have the Ati 5xxx as something that would work with anything sound, but I do have more than 1 audio renderer (actually 5 or 6).

Now in MC, there are a couple of things that happen. I couldn't convince MC not to pick up Haali (MPEG-TS was disable in Haali) for m2ts. Tired to fight filter merits I uninstalled Haali and register MPC's own splitter. Results: no go. I get File source (Async), MPC Source Splitter, MPC decoder, no audio decoder, no audio at all. Somethings wrong, but this being all still pretty experimental I guess there is some trial and error to be done. I have no way of knowing if these has anything to do with MC, except control over what is the Default Audio Renderer would've been helpful. I'm inclined to say it's not MC, just have to find the right combination of filters. That's why I was curious if anybody else has any other results.