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Author Topic: DLNA/Remote Access Help Needed  (Read 18446 times)

dtc

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DLNA/Remote Access Help Needed
« on: March 25, 2010, 12:59:29 pm »

My goal is to just use the remote PC as a remote to control another PC, which also stores the library and files,. I want to use the library and files storied on the player, without moving them to my remote system.  That is, I want a true remote, not something that sends the files from the player to the remote and back. I am not sure if I am set up correctly to do that or not.

I am  using one PC (XP running 14.155) as a remote for a PC (Windows 7 running 14.155) acting as the player. The remote system sees the player system under Playing Now and the menu on the left. I select it,  but do not see any ablums or tracks in the playing now display. I can play files (by going to Audio, for example), but get an error (see below). I can also go to File/Libray on the remote system and load the library from the player and play those tracks. Again, I get the same error.

When I play a track on the remote, the track shows up on the player display. However, it says Opening for a while then gives the error message -"Media Center encountered erros while trying to play the last several files. Please make sure the path in your media library points to the right location". On the remote system, the timer loops from 1 to 5 seconds then repeats, as if it looping waiting for the player systrem.   This happens whether I am using the library on remote or the library on the player (by selecting the DLNA library).

I am not sure if the error comes from a DLNA setup issue or possible a system issue. Maybe a port issue? Any help would be greatly appreciated. I am new to DLNA.


Both systems play fine as stand along systems. I typically play from memory, but disabled that on both systems and still get the error message.

Player Specifics - Netbook running Windows 7 Starter. Controller, Renderer and Server set under DLNA options. There is a local library and the actuals tracks are on the netbook.

Remote Specifics - Laptop running XP Media Center. Controller, Renderer and Server set under DLNA options. There is a local library on the laptop, but the actual audio tracks are on a seperate server, accessed wirelessly by the laptop.

Other interesting issues:

If I try to flip the systems, that is, use the Netbook as the remote and the laptop as the player, the Netbook does not show the laptop under Playing Now. So, the laptop sees the Netbook under playing now, but the reverse it not true.  I think I have the same options set on both system.

On both systems, under File/Library I can see the DLNA library server on the other system.

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks.

Tom

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JimH

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Re: DLNA/Remote Access Help Needed
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2010, 01:06:02 pm »

Maybe try starting over, and using MC14.0.158 from the top of this board.

The instructions are here:
http://wiki.jrmediacenter.com/index.php/DLNA

A firewall could be a problem.
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JimH

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Re: DLNA/Remote Access Help Needed
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2010, 01:10:58 pm »

...There is a local library on the laptop, but the actual audio tracks are on a seperate server, accessed wirelessly by the laptop.
Try eliminating that complexity, so that the files are local to the machine.
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bob

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Re: DLNA/Remote Access Help Needed
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2010, 04:12:02 pm »

Also if you are playing MC to MC you might as well set the audio conversion option to "never convert" in DLNA options for the servers you've setup.
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dtc

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Re: DLNA/Remote Access Help Needed
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2010, 04:52:38 pm »

Thanks Jim. You are partially correct. I did upgrade to 14.158 and that made no difference, but networked files are an issue, although not my main problem.

The first problem seems to be that the mp3 conversion option was on and this was causing problems. So, I changed the option to never convert and now I can play remotely. Except, the audio files have to be on the same system I am using as a remote. If they are on a remote file server, the player cannot find them. The DLNA player does not seem to deal with networked files. [EDIT: Upon furthur checking, the DLNA player is now finding the audio files on the networked server. Not sure what changed, but it is working now.]

I found a similar problem when sharing a library via DLNA. If I load up a DLNA library (that resides on the player) on the remote, then I can play it on the remote but I cannot redirect it back to the player for playing. [EDIT: This is still an issue - see post below.]

In DLNA terms, it seems that Server and Controller need to be one one computer and the Renderer and Player need to be on another computer and the files must reside on the Server.

I had hoped that, in DLNA terms, the Player, Renderer, and Server could all be on one system and the Remote could be a separate system and that the Remote could control the others without actually transferring files to the Remote. I do not see now to do that, but if it is possible I would like to know now to do it.

It seems like the architecture should support what I want to do, but the common implementation (for example, PC with files sending them to a TV for viewing or receiver for playing) don't need to separate all four functions.

DLNA certainly is a great feature. I am just not sure it was defined for exactly what I want to do. And it would be nice if it dealt with networked files.

I could use Windows Remote Terminal Services for what I want to do, except my Player does not have Windows 7 Professional, so it cannot be controlled by a remote system.

Sorry if this has been discussed before. I am new to DLNA. If I missed something, please let me know.

Tom
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dtc

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Re: DLNA/Remote Access Help Needed
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2010, 04:54:16 pm »

Bob - thanks. That was exactly the problem that caused the errors. I was typing when you responded.

Any thoughts on my other issues?
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Vincent Kars

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Re: DLNA/Remote Access Help Needed
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2010, 05:45:03 pm »

I could use Windows Remote Terminal Services for what I want to do, except my Player does not have Windows 7 Professional, so it cannot be controlled by a remote system.
You might have a look at VNC like http://www.tightvnc.com/
The remote desktop is in general pretty efficient compared with DLNA
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JimH

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Re: DLNA/Remote Access Help Needed
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2010, 06:15:14 pm »

How are you importing the network files?  Are they on a drive with a drive letter?
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dtc

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Re: DLNA/Remote Access Help Needed
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2010, 07:59:34 pm »

Jim - on further checking, the system works fine with networked files that are accessing through a shared file name that does not have a letter it in - e.g.

\\Bbu0z\j river music on iomega\Bill Evans Trio\Waltz for Debbie\02 Waltz For Debby.flac

What does not work : on the laptop (controller) I select the library on the netbook (player) by doing File/Library and selecting the DNLA library from the netbook. It loads down the library onto the laptop (controller)  Once loaded into the laptop the tracks look like

http://192.168.1.2:52100/Music/F20.1000

The /Music/F20.1000 are generated by this process. They are not my directory or filenames. The track file names  on the netbook are c:\.....

The files play on the laptop (zone 1) but do not play when I use the DLNA zone on the netbook (player)

Sorry this is somewhat confusing. Hope it makes sense.

Thanks for your help.
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docles

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Re: DLNA/Remote Access Help Needed
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2010, 02:16:18 am »

Hello,

It seems that I am in the same situation.
1. I have a server (windows home server) where all my music files are located, with JRiver (14.155) running. The files location in JRiver are network path type (//SERVER/MUSIC/xxx). JRiver on the server is dedicated to 2 tasks : Library server and DLNA server (all the 3 dlna boxes are ticked)
2. I use a laptop to control everything with JRiver (14.155)
   - the library is loaded from the server
   - the renderer can be seen in the playing device list (DLNA control box ticked)


When I try to request the renderer to play a file from the laptop controlling, I get an error message saying "this feature requires a DLNA server to be running. Please enable a DLNA server in Options > DLNA".

I don't see any complexity in this configuration, just a way to store files in a dedicated server with a other computer controlling features.

Do you have any solution.


Thanks


Best regards

Docles
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JimH

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Re: DLNA/Remote Access Help Needed
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2010, 07:19:40 am »

The files location in JRiver are network path type (//SERVER/MUSIC/xxx).
Try mapping to a drive letter.
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dtc

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Re: DLNA/Remote Access Help Needed
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2010, 07:56:19 am »

You might have a look at VNC like http://www.tightvnc.com/
The remote desktop is in general pretty efficient compared with DLNA

Thanks. I had looked at that and other solutions. For now, I am trying to do it without adding another piece of software, but tightvnc might be a good alternative.
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dtc

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Re: DLNA/Remote Access Help Needed
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2010, 10:07:19 am »

Well, a new problem. I am getting random crashes on both the remote and the player. Everything seems fine, then one or the other crashes. I think it happens when changing tracks, although I am not sure if that is always the case.  I do not think this is necessarily a new problem - I am just playing longer, rather than just the quick tests I was doing before. Not sure what the issue is. If it were something like a network issue I would think I would get an error message, not a crash.
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JimH

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Re: DLNA/Remote Access Help Needed
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2010, 10:21:29 am »

Eliminate the network aspect of your libraries.  Try a library with local files.  Just to test.

You can add a test library in File / Library Manager.
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morrison

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Re: DLNA/Remote Access Help Needed
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2010, 12:43:47 pm »

I am getting random crashes on both the remote and the player.
I can confirm this too.
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JimH

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Re: DLNA/Remote Access Help Needed
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2010, 01:20:48 pm »

Try build 159 above.  A log would be appreciated.  Mail to matt at jriver and link to this thread.
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docles

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Re: DLNA/Remote Access Help Needed
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2010, 02:18:28 pm »

Jim,

Without network path description (ie d:/share/Musique/xxx), same problem, doesn't work.

Docles

PS : do you want that I upgrade to 159 + log ? where are log files ?
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JimH

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Re: DLNA/Remote Access Help Needed
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2010, 02:27:11 pm »

Yes.  Upgrade.  Logging is under MC's Help menu.
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JimH

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Re: DLNA/Remote Access Help Needed
« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2010, 02:28:50 pm »

Is D: a local drive?
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docles

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Re: DLNA/Remote Access Help Needed
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2010, 02:56:18 pm »

Yep
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dtc

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Re: DLNA/Remote Access Help Needed
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2010, 04:14:36 pm »

159 seems to stop the random crashes - I have run for 40 minutes using a library and audio files on the remote laptop and I also ran 40 minutes using the library on the remote laptop with the audio files on the network.  Current configuration that works is a laptop with a local library accessing audio files on a networked server and acting as a DLNA remote, directing output to a Netbook DLNA player. I will keep testing it.

I still need to work on using the DLNA remote to load a DLNA library from the player, with audio files on the player and having the remote direct the output to the DLNA player. Question? In that configuration (if I can get it to work), does the audio file stream to the remote and then stream back to the player, or is DLNA smart enough to know that the audio file is on the same system as the player and allow the access to all happen locally? The later is my goal, if possible. Then I really do have a system that acts only as a remote without moving the audio files between systems, somewhat like Webremote with do with V 15, but maintaining the nice MC interface on the remote.

Thanks for your help.
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docles

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Re: DLNA/Remote Access Help Needed
« Reply #21 on: March 29, 2010, 01:31:13 pm »

It seems that I am in the same situation.
1. I have a server (windows home server) where all my music files are located, with JRiver (14.155) running. The files location in JRiver are network path type (//SERVER/MUSIC/xxx). JRiver on the server is dedicated to 2 tasks : Library server and DLNA server (all the 3 dlna boxes are ticked)
2. I use a laptop to control everything with JRiver (14.155)
   - the library is loaded from the server
   - the renderer can be seen in the playing device list (DLNA control box ticked)


When I try to request the renderer to play a file from the laptop controlling, I get an error message saying "this feature requires a DLNA server to be running. Please enable a DLNA server in Options > DLNA".


Same problems with JRiver 15 (15.012 on both server and laptop).

BR

Docles
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dtc

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Re: DLNA/Remote Access Help Needed
« Reply #22 on: March 29, 2010, 01:43:27 pm »

With 159, I ran for mutiple hours without any crashes. I did occassionally find that during pauses between me selecting tracks, the remote went back to outputing to zone 1, but selecting the player zone sent output to the player without issue. So, 159 seems to have fixed the random crashes. Unfortunately, somewhere along the upgrade path, my M2Tech Hiface stopped working in Exclusive mode and the sound became distored. I ended up going back to 155 and have exclusive mode back, after re-installing the HiFace driver.

Still, my preference is to have the audio files and library on the same system as the output device and to have the player recognize that the audio files are local to the player and not transfer the audio data to the remote and back to the player. Is there a way to do that? I think that WebRemote does that on MC 15, but without the MC interface. It would be nice to be able to use a remote PC running MC without the data having to be transferred to it. Is there any way to do that? Can that be added to WebRemote?

Thanks.

Tom
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JimH

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Re: DLNA/Remote Access Help Needed
« Reply #23 on: March 29, 2010, 01:48:16 pm »

Unfortunately, somewhere along the upgrade path, my M2Tech Hiface stopped working in Exclusive mode and the sound became distored. I ended up going back to 155 and have exclusive mode back, after re-installing the HiFace driver.
Build 140 of the Hi-face firmware was known to work.  Build 141 did not.
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dtc

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Re: DLNA/Remote Access Help Needed
« Reply #24 on: March 29, 2010, 03:50:46 pm »

I am  using 140, not 141.

Tom
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bob

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Re: DLNA/Remote Access Help Needed
« Reply #25 on: March 30, 2010, 09:23:46 am »


Same problems with JRiver 15 (15.012 on both server and laptop).

BR

Docles

Lets see if I can get this straight:

1) You both have a server PC running MC with all 3 DLNA boxes checked.

2) The media files are NOT on the PC, they are on a network share?

3) You are using a laptop w/ MC as a controller to play music on the server PC?
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docles

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Re: DLNA/Remote Access Help Needed
« Reply #26 on: March 30, 2010, 10:23:36 am »

1) You have a server PC running MC with all 3 DLNA boxes checked.
Yes, specifically a Windows Home Server.

2) The media files are NOT on the PC, they are on a network share?
No, they are on the PC (Server) but with network paths in the JRiver database

3) You are using a laptop w/ MC as a controller to play music on the server PC?
I have a laptop w/ MC as a controller of an UPNP renderer (LINN DS).

Docles
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bob

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Re: DLNA/Remote Access Help Needed
« Reply #27 on: March 30, 2010, 02:00:32 pm »

Yes, specifically a Windows Home Server.
No, they are on the PC (Server) but with network paths in the JRiver database
I have a laptop w/ MC as a controller of an UPNP renderer (LINN DS).

Docles
Ok, the MC PC is the server. Why are you using network paths to the files?

Is the LINN renderer on yet another PC or the same PC as either the server or the controller?
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docles

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Re: DLNA/Remote Access Help Needed
« Reply #28 on: March 30, 2010, 06:25:08 pm »

Ok, the MC PC is the server. Why are you using network paths to the files?

Is the LINN renderer on yet another PC or the same PC as either the server or the controller?


I use network paths to have independant file paths. I have already tried with more traditional file paths. Same problem.

Linn DS is an high-end piece of hardware playing audiophile music using DLNA standard to communicate. The renderer is just connected to the network waiting for orders from a DLNA controller.
There other DLNA controller working with LINN DS (new asset control from dbpoweramp, Nokia N80 DLNA control software, Iphone application Plugplayer, and others).

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JimH

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Re: DLNA/Remote Access Help Needed
« Reply #29 on: March 30, 2010, 06:42:13 pm »

  - the renderer can be seen in the playing device list (DLNA control box ticked)
Are the other two DLNA check boxes ticked?

This is working for other people using the Linn DS.

I'm still suspicious that the network paths are causing a problem.

I assume you've seen this thread on the Linn forum:
http://forums.linn.co.uk/bb/showthread.php?tid=5735&page=9
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dtc

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Re: DLNA/Remote Access Help Needed
« Reply #30 on: April 03, 2010, 07:39:22 am »

I would still like to be able to have the library and audio files on a system that is also the player and be able to use a second system as the remote without transfering the files to the remote and back to the player for playing. I am trying to get the best possible sound when also playing from memory. Doing 2 wireless transfers does not seem to be an optimal way to do this. WebRomote is not a desireable option because you loose all the wonderful flexibility of the MC user interface.

Is what I want to do possible? If not, it would be a nice addition to MC 15.
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dtc

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Re: DLNA/Remote Access Help Needed
« Reply #31 on: April 07, 2010, 09:08:43 pm »

Anyone have an answer? Can what I want to do be done? If not, it is something that could be considered for MC 15?  Should I provide more information? JimH or Matt can you help? Someone at J River must know.

Thanks.

Tom
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JimH

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Re: DLNA/Remote Access Help Needed
« Reply #32 on: April 07, 2010, 09:15:05 pm »

I don't follow what you're asking, but there shouldn't be any duplicated transfers.  The wiki article on DLNA might be worth reading.  Using that terminology would help.
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dtc

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Re: DLNA/Remote Access Help Needed
« Reply #33 on: April 07, 2010, 09:44:28 pm »

I want the DLNA player system to contain the MC library and audio files. I want the DLNA remote to wirelessly access the system with the DLNA player on it.  In this case, it is my understanding that DLNA transfers the audio data to the DLNA remote and then transfers it to the DLNA player system. DLNA works fine if the audio files are not on the DLNA player system, as is usually the case. However, if the files already reside on the DLNA player system I do not want them transferred from the player system to the remote system and back to the player system.

So, the only data that I want to be communicated wirelessly between the DLNA player and the DLNA remote is tag data, not the actual audio data.

Having the audio data on the same device as the DLNA player is, as I understand it, not the normal setup for DLNA. The audio data is always streamed to the DLNA player, if I understand correctly.


Does that help?
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dtc

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Re: DLNA/Remote Access Help Needed
« Reply #34 on: April 07, 2010, 09:54:07 pm »

Let me try another discription, without all the DLNA lingo.

I have a fully functional netbook with MC14 that is completely self contained. All the library and audio data are on the system. The system is connected by USB my system. It works fine.

What I want to do it to be able to pick up my separate laptop system, run MC 14 and have it access the files on the netbook and play them, without transferring the audio data from the netbook to the laptop and back. This is what WebRemote does if I understand it correctly. I would like to do that with a MC 14 interface rather than a WebRemote interface.

I really do not care what the technology is - just want that functionality.

Thanks.

Tom
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JimH

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Re: DLNA/Remote Access Help Needed
« Reply #35 on: April 07, 2010, 10:03:46 pm »

I'm going to split your last post and any replies to a new thread.

Use Library Server, not the DLNA Server.  Run it on your server (where media is), connect to it from the client, using File/Library Manager.

You will see a zone called "There" in Playing Now on the client.  Choose it.

If you're confused, read the Servers article in our wiki.  It explains more.
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dtc

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Re: DLNA/Remote Access Help Needed
« Reply #36 on: April 07, 2010, 11:45:55 pm »

Jim - I can give that a try, but according to the Wiki article

"It provides on-demand streaming of files (music and images) from a server to a client. The server is the one that makes its library available to other computer, while the client is the computer that sees those files. It allows the user to share the library from one computer to another computer, or across the Internet. "

I do not want to stream anything. Are you saying that if I use a library server on my netbook (server) that the file will not be streamed to my laptop (client), but rather will be played directly on my netbook (server). That is not the way I read the Wiki article.

Thanks.

Tom
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dtc

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Re: DLNA/Remote Access Help Needed
« Reply #37 on: April 08, 2010, 06:06:45 pm »

IT WORKS! Thanks so much.

The missing link was the Playing Now There:Zone1 option.  I had not found that. It might be nice to add that trick to the Wiki, maybe in the Library Server section or as a stand alone entry. It would also be nice to have a desciption of Zones and how to use them in the Wiki.

Part of my trouble is that I never could figure out how to use TRemote. It is not in the Wiki and I could not find a clear description of its use other than the long development thread, so I thought it had been consumed by DLNA. I am not sure how this solution relates to TRemote.

Now that I have this working, I think this is a great feature and one that should be advertised as another part of the "Remote Assess Suite":

Media Center Remote for a traditional IR remote
DLNA for sending files to DLNA devices
WebRemote for using a web browser on a non-PC device
PC Remote (or some name like that) for using a PC as a full UI remote

Unlike the TRemote thread, I am using a Netbook as my player and to hold the library and media files and a bigger, general purpose  laptop as the remote. It has almost nothing else running on it. I do not even have anti-virus on it, since I do not get email or browse with it. So, there is very little to interfere with the audio. And it is is low power and can run for hours off its battery. I have a M2Tech HiFace for output using WASAPI and am playing from memory. Very minimilist system. CPU usage is about 5%, even on the little Netbook using my main laptop as the UI.


Now I never have to leave my chair when listening!
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docles

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Re: DLNA/Remote Access Help Needed
« Reply #38 on: April 27, 2010, 03:50:35 am »

Hello,

It seems that I am in the same situation.
1. I have a server (windows home server) where all my music files are located, with JRiver (14.155) running. The files location in JRiver are network path type (//SERVER/MUSIC/xxx). JRiver on the server is dedicated to 2 tasks : Library server and DLNA server (all the 3 dlna boxes are ticked)
2. I use a laptop to control everything with JRiver (14.155)
   - the library is loaded from the server
   - the renderer can be seen in the playing device list (DLNA control box ticked)


When I try to request the renderer to play a file from the laptop controlling, I get an error message saying "this feature requires a DLNA server to be running. Please enable a DLNA server in Options > DLNA".

I don't see any complexity in this configuration, just a way to store files in a dedicated server with a other computer controlling features.

Do you have any solution.


Thanks


Best regards

Docles

Now with MC 15.0.31, it is working correctly.

Thanks
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