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Author Topic: Marketing 101  (Read 5901 times)

JimH

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Marketing 101
« on: May 28, 2010, 06:10:33 pm »

We're working on new web pages.  They are still rough.  Some links won't work yet.  But please tell us what you think.

www.jriver.com/new
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gvanbrunt

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Re: Marketing 101
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2010, 07:21:45 pm »

Better looking than the current site, but it still isn't "meaty enough". The current site lacks in information that really demonstrates what MC can do. I hope that this is just due to it being an early version.
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imugli

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Re: Marketing 101
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2010, 10:22:38 pm »

It strikes me as strange that you wouldn't take the most intuitive part of MC (TheaterView) and make your website look like that :-)

Each 'Link' on the Theater View page could be to a different section you're highlighting in the pictures and you'd be getting people straight into the human interface element of it.

Just my 2c worth.

Mr ChriZ

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Re: Marketing 101
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2010, 04:32:45 am »

The text that says Media Center maybe looks a little old fashioned, consider a different font.  Smoother more rounded fonts are more fashionable at the moment.

Maybe consider getting a good Graphics Professional Designer to create some nice branding here.
Here is something like what I'm thinking:
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/2520/mediacenter31.png

Professionals can definitely do better!

The top bar doesn't differentiate the current selection from the highlighted selection, which it should...

I do like the drop shadow look on the frames.
The shape and feeling of it is also good.  Conventionally maybe the bar on the right would be on the left?
Animation maybe a little too quick.

Overall I like where it's going.

It does need more colour. Media Center helps bring things to life... at present this site is a bit on the grey side....

aksdb

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Re: Marketing 101
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2010, 04:59:56 am »

My first impression was: that looks like a Blog. I'm not sure if that's a message a website centered around a specific product should send. Maybe that's just me, though ;-)
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neFAST

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Re: Marketing 101
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2010, 05:08:11 am »

Definitely better than the current website.
I like the top menu, but the right bar is not appealing: font is too grey and too small. Does not push me to read it carefully.
<| |> arrows under the thumbnail carousel are ugly :p

Maybe to help customers focus on the text blocks you should have a darker background, so the text blocks would "pop out" the background. Currently white background for the whole page *and* for the text blocks look like a mistake.
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JimH

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Re: Marketing 101
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2010, 06:59:08 am »

My first impression was: that looks like a Blog.
Too many words, not enough bikinis?
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aksdb

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Re: Marketing 101
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2010, 07:53:37 am »

Too many words, not enough bikinis?
Hehe, no, it's more the structure. The separated parts (it looks like first entry: the slide show, second entry: "Discover ...."), also the menu on the right reminds me more of the usual tag- and related-blogs-list.
As I said, it might be just me who sees it that way, but the structure reminds me of usual blogs, and not of usual company/product web pages.
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JimH

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Re: Marketing 101
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2010, 07:58:42 am »

Thanks.  We're looking for something that isn't the usual.

Here's another rough draft:
http://www.jriver.com/

It's still missing some navigation.
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gappie

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Re: Marketing 101
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2010, 09:27:22 am »

We're working on new web pages.  They are still rough.  Some links won't work yet.  But please tell us what you think.

www.jriver.com/new
i think it looks better then the old site too. the 'slide show' does not work in opera.. see attachment. i think the slideshow could use images that are more up to date and showing the fullscreen. im not to sure about the text. especially the beginning. i like how it tells what it can do for the reader though.

 :)
gab

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Gl3nn

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Re: Marketing 101
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2010, 09:40:54 am »

I like the first prototype.

The subject is marketing but what's JR's objective and target audience?  Maybe you've done this amongst yourselves already but, shouldn't you flesh this out a bit before revamping the look and feel of your website?  The whole exercise may not have a meaningful impact if you're not addressing the real issues of why more people (and types of people) aren't flocking here for an admittedly superior product.  For example, if it's mainly the cost of the product (vs. a free WMP) among 20-somethings, then it's probably not going to work.

The people I know are mostly older (35+), have families, and complicated lives.  They have money but no time.  MC would have to have a lot more 'wow' factor for them out of the box to get them away from iTunes.  They don't have time to visit forums or browse through wikis, nor would they enjoy doing so.  The kids, many of them teenagers, tend to go along for the ride and embrace whatever tech mom & dad provide... at least at first.

Sorry if this sounds like nonsense as my career wasn't in marketing (:)) but I guess I just don't understand WHO you're trying to get to.




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jack wallstreet

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Re: Marketing 101
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2010, 10:26:41 am »

I have to agree with Crescent.

Who are you marketing to?  The format of both the old and new sites in my opinion reflects vagueness in that area.

MC is a superior product to those who need power.  Historically, I have been unable to interest a single other person in it as few seem to need that power.  (I just don't know anyone else who needs the power - or I could sell it in seconds).

If you are marketing to people for the power of the system and the flexibility of it, then there should be focus on that.

If you want to market to more of the masses, I personally think the product needs to be improved in several areas (ease of use) and simple documentation and then have a web site and other factors that attract people.

The design is moving more and more toward high power uses that may in fact be the wave of the future, but the product clearly requires a lot of knowledge and settings etc.  If that's the market, you see, then it should be emphasized.

However, I only use MC for audio, I can't even get it to work with my internal TV card.  I probably could if I spent a lot of time (It used to - and just stopped one day).  I use MS Media Center - because it just works and at least meets my minimum needs.  I think that is an example of the battle you are facing.
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John

Osho

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Re: Marketing 101
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2010, 10:44:57 am »

Looks much better than the current site. I really wish J River the very best with the advertisement as it really deserves it!

It still could be improved a lot both aesthetic appearance-wise and content-wise.

Aesthetic: I am not the biggest fan of the fonts - they don't scream "really cool" - which is what MC is. Also, the colors are too "just black and white" - not "fun". And I agree with others who said it looks more like a blog than an advertisement for a software product.

Content-wise: I think more emphasis could be placed on the really coolest development in MC15  - Networking. And "people" need to get involved in the pictures in the slide-show. For example, rather than showing a mobile device, a person on a train enjoying the media with the same mobile device is more easy to connect to. The pictures show-casing each capability should have a way for the audience to connect to it somehow.

Osho
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gappie

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Re: Marketing 101
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2010, 10:45:15 am »

i humbly disagree with both jack and crescent (except for the battle being faced). people do not come to the website of j rivers to hear some marketing chit chat. they are past that point. they want to be informed about what mc can do for them and why its a good option for them to at least check it out. i think that that should be the only target. they should be pressing that download button and be curious enough to give it some time to find their way. maybe that last part could need a helping hand on the website. some basic guide through the program. the screens, the possebilities etc.

the reason why people might choose mc can be very diverse, the rest is bonus.

 :)
gab
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jack wallstreet

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Re: Marketing 101
« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2010, 11:02:22 am »

If gappie says something, I have learned to pay attention.  I don't see gappie's comments as disagreeing with either me or crescent and I don't disagree with his view.  I certainly wasn't proposing marketing hype or junk.  If the goal is to sell to power users, the features and power should be (quickly) clear on the site (and elsewhere) and I don't think the site (either one) is as good as it could be in this area. 

I agree with gappie that a key (but not the only) goal is to get a download.  Gappie makes an assumption that users "...should be curious enough to give it some time..."  I agree that is the ideal, but I don't know how often that is true.  I would think it better that the site make it clear how powerful MC is and thus provide better assurance to downloaders that spending the time (and it does take some time) is worth it.

E.g., extraordinary tag field flexibility and tag updating
       extraordinarily powerful in sound output
       extremely fast
       exxremely stable database, etc., etc.
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John

rick.ca

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Re: Marketing 101
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2010, 06:56:35 pm »

Here's another rough draft:

If there were a back story about what fur traders descending the Missouri in 1845 has to do with the product or it's creator, I'm sure it would be fascinating. But still distracting. Not to mention I'm rather disturbed by the idea of tethering a cat to a canoe. ;)

If there could be one page that any prospective user would be directed to, I think the challenge is you have only seconds (well, certainly less than a minute) to make the case for hitting the download button. For anybody who would be happy with the software, that shouldn't be difficult to do.

First, include something to enhance the credibility of the assertion it's "clearly the best software..." A slide show is probably a good way to do that—it can convey awesome imagery without the reader doing anything. Using those words alone is not. It just makes me think, "yeah, right, I'll be the judge of that." Maybe it could be linked to a page of testimonials, or a feature comparison chart.

Having made the case in the reader's mind, "whether or not the best, it looks very interesting," counter the objection "but maybe it's a lot more than I need." We all know MC is a lot more than any one of us needs, but that doesn't make it "too much" for any of us. Try to convey the idea, "no matter what your needs, there's no reason not to use the best." Put the highly technical and advanced stuff in linked pages where curious geeks can find them—but so mere mortals will not be frightened-off.

Remove objections to giving it a try. I just downloaded, installed and started the latest version of the program—it took 45 seconds. Tell them that! Then make it easy to try out. After the download, go to a "getting started" page which includes some simple step-by-step instructions for trying out various things. This would provide a much more positive experience than the heart-stopper of the program automatically scanning for media to add. If anything should happen automatically (on first use), it should be the opening of the Media Import dialog—and the instructions should address how to use this.

It's very likely a new user will have music files on their system. It's likely they've used something to manage them to date, and so there's a reasonable likelihood the media is tagged. So the first and most prominent instruction set should be for adding music media to the library. Let the user tell the program where their "iTunes folder" is—and demonstrate the program will immediately import all the files and meta data they are familiar with. Then walk them through how easy it is to manipulate that information and add to it. There should be instruction sets for images and video as well, but most people would probably be sold at this point. Or at least committed to exploring further on their own.

These introductory instructions should have the limited scope of demonstrating some key aspect of the program—in a way that nothing can go wrong. For example, care must be taken that an "Add your video files" demo does not "fail" because the user's system doesn't have the necessary filters. Be clear about this limitation, and invite the user to explore further by providing some "for further information" links. Those could be to additional web pages, but at some point should be to applicable wiki and forum topics. That may be the best way to provide a gentle introduction to the documentation and help currently available.

And, yes, it would be wonderful if there were a nicely produced video for each one of these walk-throughs. Located on this "getting started" page, they would serve the dual purpose of providing introductory instruction and persuading those not yet convinced to give the program a try. They would also be great for those interested in a certain aspect of the program, but don't yet have the media or devices necessary to actually try it out.
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JimH

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Re: Marketing 101
« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2010, 07:00:51 pm »

It's probably not a cat.  I think it's a bear cub, maybe a young wolf.  The painting is at the Metropolitan Museum in NYC.  You can walk right up to it and still not know.
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imugli

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Re: Marketing 101
« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2010, 07:28:46 pm »

Thanks.  We're looking for something that isn't the usual.

Here's another rough draft:
http://www.jriver.com/

It's still missing some navigation.

Underliningfor emphasis loses the emphasis when every sentence is underlined.

And the picture at the top should at least be of MC. Theater view is the eye candy of MC - show it :)

rick.ca

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Re: Marketing 101
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2010, 08:04:48 pm »

It's probably not a cat.  I think it's a bear cub, maybe a young wolf.  The painting is at the Metropolitan Museum in NYC.  You can walk right up to it and still not know.

And thanks to these careless pioneers, we no longer have any cats with wolf heads. ::)

If this is a JRiver logo, this animal must represent your lead product. I think you'd better decide what it is! Perhaps a hybrid, with all the best qualities of a cat, bear and wolf. 8)
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Mr ChriZ

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Re: Marketing 101
« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2010, 04:17:00 am »

What's strange is the cat in the main pic is identical to it's shadow, but in the little pic, the shadow looks forward.
Ominous.

lise

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Re: Marketing 101
« Reply #20 on: May 30, 2010, 01:33:57 pm »

What I always say to get friends to buy it:

I can play all highly rated country tunes from Canadian female artists that I haven't heard in over one year (and no more than 2 songs per artist).

Or I play all pictures of mom and dad in the last 5 years at the camp, or all my pictures of European cars and bicycles.

and most recently I add:

And I can seach for Italian Sausage and get everything: my recipes, cooking videos, Food Network tv shows, podcasts, whatever.
Or I can search for 2002 taxes.
Or woodworking videos about making dovetails.

Then I say the other stuff: it can burn/playback pretty much any filetype. Audiophiles use it to get perfect playback. It can be a PVR, playback movies, data, music, whatever.  Only thing is, it only works with stuff you actually have on the computer. It can't track the dvds you own, or the cds you want, etc, at least not without some cheating. But there's not much else it can't do.

That's my pitch. Many friends purchased it
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imugli

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Re: Marketing 101
« Reply #21 on: June 02, 2010, 08:10:03 am »

Was thinking about this a little more...

It seems to me MC can be boiled down to a few specific functions (with broader sub-functions within) -

Rip
Organise
Play
Stream
Burn
Control

Why not focus the website on these six functions, then eleborate on them on different site pages?

Make it as simple or as complicated as people want it.

rpalmer68

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Re: Marketing 101
« Reply #22 on: June 02, 2010, 08:29:54 am »

Was thinking about this a little more...

It seems to me MC can be boiled down to a few specific functions (with broader sub-functions within) -

Rip
Organise
Play
Stream
Burn
Control

Why not focus the website on these six functions, then eleborate on them on different site pages?

Make it as simple or as complicated as people want it.

I like this idea, a snapshot of MC and I'd say do it graphically soemhow.

Since this topic is Marketing 101:
- You have about 6 to 10 seconds to get a new visitor's attention when they visit your website, if you don't grab their attention they will probably go somewhere else
- Every time people have to click to get information you lose some of them
- You need a good story
- Sell the benefits not the features.  People want to know how it's going to make their life better/easier/faster etc .
- Guarantees work (or 30 day evaluatons of the full product, not crippled software) - so promote that
- Real Testimonials are very powerfull

There's lots more, but not tonight....

Richard
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Bobo4567

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Re: Marketing 101
« Reply #23 on: June 02, 2010, 04:30:55 pm »

"The bait is supposed to attract the fish, not the angler ...

All of us already use MC which means that we are not the target for a marketing relaunch. Of course each of us has his special use case, some of the functionalities that made us buying this wonderfull piece of software.

So my first advice would be: "Ask the recent customers why they bought und what was the way they found MC". Then you should be able to decide whether you should invenst in a new website, youtube videos, google ads, affiliate marketing, ....

Next: Positioning is important. More important is how the people percept the product.  You might think of an triangle with edges representing leadership in technology, benefit oder brand. Being a brand leader (e.g. Microsoft, Apple, Coca Cola, Porsche, ...) ist wonderfull because marketing on a low level works. But in my point of view this is not MC. So there are still to edges left: Technology leadership provides the newest, high sophisticated state of the art technique, e.g. MCs internal 32Bit processing. For this products (e.g. Bose) people are willing to pay higher prices but adressing the market ist more complex. At least a product can provide the highest benefit.
Now, if a product has a little bit from all it will not be recognized!

This might be a reason why we are talking about an improvement in Jrivers marketing. MC convinces with some truely good and reliable technology functions. On the other hand it takes a lot of time to use the power of the application. MC has lots of functions that provide me lots of advantages and benefits. But most of my colleagues rate the easiness of the Apple/iTunes/iPod-world  higher than the flexibility of MC.

This brings me to the following point: Each product has as many advantages as disadvantages. If you buy a porsche cabrio you might enjoy a trip with your friend or partner at high speed but carying some wooden bars might be a problem ...

Going back to the taste of the bait: If MC would be my product I would segment the prospects into groups. Each of them need a strong marketing proposition which will be adressed through the most adequate channels. Groups might be:
- Audiophile Users
- Home Entertainment
- Mixed Function Users (Others)
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Mr ChriZ

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Re: Marketing 101
« Reply #24 on: June 03, 2010, 05:21:00 am »

I love how this forum brings such a rich assortment of advice  :)

imugli

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Re: Marketing 101
« Reply #25 on: June 03, 2010, 07:58:09 am »

Thinking a little more...

Target demographic - technophobe wives :)

fitbrit

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Re: Marketing 101
« Reply #26 on: June 03, 2010, 11:54:58 am »

I agree with many others:

- Ditch the (very nice) painting. It just makes the whole site look like it's from a bygone era, and doesn't tell you anything about MC. Plus, it's a cat for sure. :)

- The site needs to inform the user about MC, and as Rick mentioned, you have a few seconds only to make an impression.

- Underlined text isn't that effective for emphasis any more.

- Statements like "Clearly the best" need to be substantiated immediately, otherwise they're an instant turn-off. I'd even prefer "The best" to "Clearly the best".

- Eye-candy works for a lot of things, especially if there's substance behind it. Get some Theater view screenshots in there.
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rick.ca

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Re: Marketing 101
« Reply #27 on: June 03, 2010, 02:07:27 pm »

Quote
and doesn't tell you anything about MC. Plus, it's a cat for sure.

Actually, it does. If you look really closely and realize the cat is not necessarily a cat, you begin to appreciate it could be many things—just like the product it represents. And just like the real product, no one has much chance of figuring that out until someone else tells them. ;D

The painting would be okay if clicking on the "cat" would cause it to grow randomly into a cat, wolf or bear, and then launch a video about completely different aspects/features of the program. Clicking on the man or woman would, of course, launch tear-jerking video bios for Jim and Matt respectively (sorry, Matt) that would focus on how the quest to save the world from disorganized media collections took over their humble lives. 8)
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JimH

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Re: Marketing 101
« Reply #28 on: August 04, 2010, 03:27:49 pm »

OK, here's our latest attempt to define Media Center:
http://www.jriver.com/

We plan to add screenshots and other graphics.
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flac.rules

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Re: Marketing 101
« Reply #29 on: August 04, 2010, 05:14:30 pm »

When i first used Media center i was skeptical, it takes some time to get used to all the features and possibilities. I like the program because of the possibilities and features, that kept me onboard. I don't know if I am representative, but for "my kind" of customer I think it would help to point out that MC has a lot of features others don't have and concrete examples. "You can do everything with this program", can be said about another program, itunes and so on. What makes MC better than these other programs (which also are free), maybe that should be a part of the message?

(Just random advice from someone with no marketing experience, I don't know if its useful or not)
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