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Author Topic: Cache on drive C  (Read 4543 times)

Alex Peychev

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Cache on drive C
« on: January 15, 2011, 05:43:29 pm »
Is there a way of setting up MC not to cache on the main C drive? I have an external HDD enclosure connected via eSATA with two 2TB Seagate drives with 64MB buffer set in RAID1. When I play music from them, the C drive shows constant activity too like the file plays from there. So far I've tried disabling the paging file of the system (for both drives) and setting up MC directories to the external drive but no luck.

Thanks!
Alex
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JimH

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Re: Cache on drive C
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2011, 06:08:45 pm »
Maybe your library (MC's database) is stored on the C: drive.  Check File Location in MC's options for other possibilities.
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Alex Peychev

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Re: Cache on drive C
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2011, 07:00:03 pm »
I have already tried all that. All audio and cache folder options in the MC are set to the external drive, but there is still cache on the internal C drive going on.

I realize this might be a Windows 7 issue, but there has to be a way of bypassing this. There is no sense to cache on the C drive.

I'd appreciate your help.
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Scolex

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Re: Cache on drive C
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2011, 09:42:58 pm »
Have you tried selecting "Play files from memory instead of disk (not zone specific)" in tools\options\audio
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Sean

Vincent Kars

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Re: Cache on drive C
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2011, 04:05:37 am »
Open the Win7 Resource Monitor.
It will tell you which application is doing the I/O
http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/SW/Windows/Win7/PerfMon.htm
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Alex Peychev

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Re: Cache on drive C
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2011, 02:40:34 pm »
Quote from: Scolex on January 15, 2011, 09:42:58 pm
Have you tried selecting "Play files from memory instead of disk (not zone specific)" in tools\options\audio

No, I have not because it does not sound nearly as good in this mode.
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Scolex

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Re: Cache on drive C
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2011, 03:20:18 pm »
It should not effect the sound quality since it is going through the memory controller (Northbridge) regardless.
It doesn't effect the s q on my system I checked using different mp3 bit rates from 128 to 320 and wave.
Then again I am using digital out so there is no chance of noise being induced by the computer and maybe you are not.
I am curious as to why you would have a quality reduction since digital is impervious to noise.
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Sean

Alex Peychev

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Re: Cache on drive C
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2011, 03:26:56 pm »
Quote from: Vincent Kars on January 16, 2011, 04:05:37 am
Open the Win7 Resource Monitor.
It will tell you which application is doing the I/O
http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/SW/Windows/Win7/PerfMon.htm

Thank you! Since both HDDs are on the same SATA controller, the HDD activity LED fooled me. :-) There is no cache on the C drive; it is all coming from the F (external) drive.

What's interesting is that, if "play from memory" was selected and de-selected, the file still plays from the memory because there is no HDD activity. If I select another track, then it plays from the HDD.

Is there a way of flushing the RAM cache?

Thanks again!
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Scolex

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Re: Cache on drive C
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2011, 03:35:09 pm »
It will clear out on it's own or you can shutdown Media Center.
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Sean

Alex Peychev

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Re: Cache on drive C
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2011, 03:35:58 pm »
Quote from: Scolex on January 16, 2011, 03:20:18 pm
It should not effect the sound quality since it is going through the memory controller (Northbridge) regardless.
It doesn't effect the s q on my system I checked using different mp3 bit rates from 128 to 320 and wave.
Then again I am using digital out so there is no chance of noise being induced by the computer and maybe you are not.
I am curious as to why you would have a quality reduction since digital is impervious to noise.

Well, I hear you but it does affect the quality. Playing from HDD sounds a lot more realistic/natural to my ears. And I do understand that there is still some RAM buffering going. I use 2 ses pre-buffering and 0.25 sec buffer in the ASIO setup. This sounds best to me.

I am using a highly modified, transformer-isolated hiFace USB -> S/PIDF running on its own dedicated quiet linear power supply, so no noise from the PC comes through.

Thanks!
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Alex Peychev

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Re: Cache on drive C
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2011, 03:43:18 pm »
Quote from: Scolex on January 16, 2011, 03:35:09 pm
It will clear out on it's own or you can shutdown Media Center.

Yeah, it eventually does that, but it seems like the MC still runs on the background even if you close it. I've tried that but it still plays from memory if the same file is selected. So maybe it has to be shut from the task manager or restart the PC.

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Scolex

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Re: Cache on drive C
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2011, 03:48:33 pm »
If you have Media server enabled you have to close it in the system tray or task manager or MC continues in the background.
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Sean

Alex Peychev

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Re: Cache on drive C
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2011, 03:57:23 pm »
Yeah, I know, but MS is not enabled in this case.

I checked RAM memory use with the settings I have, with 2 sec pre-buffering and 0.25 sec ASIO buffer, the MC uses around 20MB of the RAM. My HDDs have 64MB so it will be really cool if that buffer can be used instead of the PC RAM buffer. Is this possible?
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Scolex

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Re: Cache on drive C
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2011, 07:10:31 pm »
If you reduce the pre-buffer in MC I guess it would force it to. The problem with that is if your drive needs to use the drive cache your media may stutter. You also have to remember that the drive uses that 64MB for ECC and hard drives have a lot of corrections to make.
I am curious what do you have for Motherboard, processor, and RAM?
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Sean

Alex Peychev

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Re: Cache on drive C
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2011, 11:20:04 pm »
I guess you're right; and there is time needed for data conversion too. But wouldn't it be nice to have no RAM buffer latency and the rest?

It is a newer Toshiba laptop with Core i3 and 4GB of RAM (additional 1GB video), running Win 7, 64bit.
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Vincent Kars

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Re: Cache on drive C
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2011, 02:59:37 am »
Quote from: Alex Peychev on January 16, 2011, 11:20:04 pm
But wouldn't it be nice to have no RAM buffer latency and the rest?
Probably not.
Win is not a real time OS.
As a consequence you need some buffering as by design you can't guarantee that the audio is delivered when needed.
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Scolex

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Re: Cache on drive C
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2011, 05:54:56 am »
There is a solution for you Alex build a media super center with four of these. I say four so you still have 4TB. (1TB PCIe SSDs)  :o :o :o
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Sean

Alex Peychev

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Re: Cache on drive C
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2011, 02:03:36 pm »
Quote from: Scolex on January 17, 2011, 05:54:56 am
There is a solution for you Alex build a media super center with four of these. I say four so you still have 4TB. (1TB PCIe SSDs)  :o :o :o

As I mentioned earlier, I don't like the sound of 100% memory playback because it is artificially colored to my ears; not a natural. I guess it is all due to controllers, overclocking and noisy switching power. With the current setup I read only 20MB of RAM buffering going on with 176.4/24 files, so I am happy, and it sounds best to my ears. :-)

Thanks!
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Scolex

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Re: Cache on drive C
« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2011, 12:15:27 am »
I wasn't being serious due to the cost of them but....
Using those along with a PCIe sound card would offer the best possible sound quality because it would be the shortest path/least amount of handling due to the fact that they can bypass the RAM controller completely. I have modified the picture I posted earlier to show the paths taken by different setups.

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Sean

HiFiTubes

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Re: Cache on drive C
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2011, 01:55:25 pm »
Quote from: Scolex on January 16, 2011, 03:20:18 pm

Then again I am using digital out so there is no chance of noise being induced by the computer and maybe you are not.
I am curious as to why you would have a quality reduction since digital is impervious to noise.


This is not true. Toslink (optical) may be impervious to RFI & EMI, but coax is not.

It is common knowledge, and my experience, that you can get DC current on the chassis ground of AES/EBU; many people float pin1 on the XLR for AES cables. There are no "motherboards" with AES/EBU outputs of course, but I have heard psu related quirks over supposedly galvanically isolated USB etc.

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HiFiTubes

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Re: Cache on drive C
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2011, 02:00:33 pm »
Quote from: Alex Peychev on January 16, 2011, 03:43:18 pm
Yeah, it eventually does that, but it seems like the MC still runs on the background even if you close it. I've tried that but it still plays from memory if the same file is selected. So maybe it has to be shut from the task manager or restart the PC.



After shutting MC down from playing via Library Server, I have noticed MC running (no media server) at 25% for about 1 minute. I am no longer using the current build as it has become unstable for Library Server playback; using .108 for now.
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