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Author Topic: Seem to have dropped frames with RO  (Read 3500 times)

pauly139

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Seem to have dropped frames with RO
« on: June 22, 2011, 01:36:35 pm »
I have some AVI files that play smoothly when not using RO for video, but seem to be dropping frames with RO. However in both cases the CPU is sitting around 20% - 30%. Is there any way to get MC to display dropped frame statistics to see if that is causing the 'choppy' video display?

Rgds
Paul
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Matt

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Re: Seem to have dropped frames with RO
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2011, 01:38:11 pm »
Make sure you're using 116 from the top of this board.
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JimH

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Re: Seem to have dropped frames with RO
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2011, 01:38:23 pm »
Quote from: pauly139 on June 22, 2011, 01:36:35 pm
I have some AVI files that play smoothly when not using RO for video, but seem to be dropping frames with RO. However in both cases the CPU is sitting around 20% - 30%. Is there any way to get MC to display dropped frame statistics to see if that is causing the 'choppy' video display?

Rgds
Paul
RO Standard or HQ?  Which build of MC?
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glynor

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Re: Seem to have dropped frames with RO
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2011, 01:57:07 pm »
Red October HQ can drop frames if you're running it on a slower PC.  It requires SUBSTANTIAL resources for some file types.  In particular, I've had to switch my 720p H264 TS files manually to use EVR instead of madVR, even on a Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550 @ 3.5GHz because it would drop frames for those (everything else I've thrown at it is smooth).

MadVR also makes use of your GPU capabilities, so if you are using an underpowered GPU, you might be hitting issues with HQ mode.
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pauly139

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Re: Seem to have dropped frames with RO
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2011, 02:26:52 pm »
This comment was based on MC16.115 RO standard. I'll try with 116 and report back
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pauly139

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Re: Seem to have dropped frames with RO
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2011, 02:41:32 pm »
Same with 116. Fine with Windows Merit based, slightly jilty with RO Standard. Same % CPU (<50%). This is only with certain AVI files, which are in this format.

Format                           : AVI
Format/Info                      : Audio Video Interleave
File size                        : 1.37 GiB
Duration                         : 43mn 22s
Overall bit rate                 : 4 506 Kbps
Writing application              : FairUse Wizard - http://fairusewizard.com
Writing library                  : The best and REALLY easy backup tool

Video
ID                               : 0
Format                           : AVC
Format/Info                      : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                   : High@L3.0
Format settings, CABAC           : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames        : 4 frames
Codec ID                         : H264
Duration                         : 43mn 22s
Bit rate                         : 4 112 Kbps
Width                            : 712 pixels
Height                           : 392 pixels
Display aspect ratio             : 16:9
Frame rate                       : 23.976 fps
Color space                      : YUV
Chroma subsampling               : 4:2:0
Bit depth                        : 8 bits
Scan type                        : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)               : 0.614
Stream size                      : 1.25 GiB (91%)
Writing library                  : x264 core 93 r1538bm bd72d46
Encoding settings                : cabac=1 / ref=3 / deblock=1:-2:-1 / analyse=0x3:0x113 / me=umh / subme=6 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=12 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=1 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=4 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=16 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=1 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / wpredb=1 / wpredp=2 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=25 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=40 / rc=2pass / mbtree=1 / bitrate=4112 / ratetol=1.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=10 / qpmax=51 / qpstep=4 / cplxblur=20.0 / qblur=0.5 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00

Audio
ID                               : 1
Format                           : AC-3
Format/Info                      : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension                   : CM (complete main)
Codec ID                         : 2000
Duration                         : 43mn 22s
Bit rate mode                    : Constant
Bit rate                         : 384 Kbps
Channel(s)                       : 6 channels
Channel positions                : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate                    : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth                        : 16 bits
Compression mode                 : Lossy
Stream size                      : 119 MiB (9%)
Alignment                        : Split accross interleaves
Interleave, duration             : 42 ms (1.00 video frame)
Interleave, preload duration     : 500 ms
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glynor

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Re: Seem to have dropped frames with RO
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2011, 02:51:03 pm »
What kind of system are you running it on?

Red October Standard should work fine on most machines, especially for SD content like that one (it is 4mbps but it is a SD file).  If you're running on a very low-powered machine (like an Atom, CULV Pentium, or something else "low power" focused), then you might have to use CoreAVC for video decoding.

I'm surprised that it wouldn't work as-is, but I haven't tried it out on my Atom machine yet.
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glynor

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Re: Seem to have dropped frames with RO
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2011, 02:53:58 pm »
Also... Just to check, are you sure what you are seeing isn't judder?  That is a 24p video.  If you're running it on a 50 or 60Hz display, you'll see judder in long, slow pans.  This would be true of any playback system, though some might "hide" the effect differently than others.
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pauly139

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Re: Seem to have dropped frames with RO
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2011, 03:01:09 pm »
It is an older machine, Pentium D930 3GHz, 2GB Memory, Win7 32bit

I'm not sure how to differentiate what I am seeing as 'judder'. All I know is that using Windows merit-based it is smooth, whereas with RO standard it is not.

Is there a way to tell for sure if it is dropping frames?
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glynor

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Re: Seem to have dropped frames with RO
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2011, 03:14:55 pm »
That's very similar to a machine I have here (I have a Pentium D940 on my desk at work).  I've never noticed anything on that system.

When you play them via Windows Merit, what filters does it use?
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pauly139

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Re: Seem to have dropped frames with RO
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2011, 03:18:24 pm »
Filter Graph Info:

    Filter 'JRiver Audio Renderer'
        CLSID: {A4002F8E-510F-442C-8AD3-F9C7B23FB394}
        Host:
        Input Pin 'In'
            Connected to pin 'Out' of filter 'ffdshow Audio Decoder'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_PCM, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx

    Filter 'Enhanced Video Renderer'
        CLSID: {FA10746C-9B63-4B6C-BC49-FC300EA5F256}
        Host: c:\windows\system32\evr.dll
        Input Pin 'EVR Input0'
            Connected to pin 'Video Output 1' of filter 'Microsoft DTV-DVD Video Decoder'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_NV12, Format type FORMAT_VideoInfo2
        Input Pin 'EVR Input1'
        Input Pin 'EVR Input2'

    Filter 'ffdshow Audio Decoder'
        CLSID: {0F40E1E5-4F79-4988-B1A9-CC98794E6B55}
        Host: C:\Users\Media\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 16\Plugins\ffdshow\ffdshow.ax
        Output Pin 'Out'
            Connected to pin 'In' of filter 'JRiver Audio Renderer'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_PCM, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx
        Input Pin 'In'
            Connected to pin 'Stream 01' of filter 'AVI Splitter'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio  Sub type Unknown GUID Name: {00002000-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx

    Filter 'Microsoft DTV-DVD Video Decoder'
        CLSID: {212690FB-83E5-4526-8FD7-74478B7939CD}
        Host: c:\windows\system32\msmpeg2vdec.dll
        Input Pin 'Video Input'
            Connected to pin 'Stream 00' of filter 'AVI Splitter'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_H264, Format type FORMAT_VideoInfo
        Input Pin 'Subpicture Input'
        Output Pin 'Video Output 1'
            Connected to pin 'EVR Input0' of filter 'Enhanced Video Renderer'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_NV12, Format type FORMAT_VideoInfo2
        Output Pin '~Line21 Output'

    Filter 'AVI Splitter'
        CLSID: {1B544C20-FD0B-11CE-8C63-00AA0044B51E}
        Host: c:\windows\system32\quartz.dll
        Output Pin 'Stream 00'
            Connected to pin 'Video Input' of filter 'Microsoft DTV-DVD Video Decoder'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_H264, Format type FORMAT_VideoInfo
        Output Pin 'Stream 01'
            Connected to pin 'In' of filter 'ffdshow Audio Decoder'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio  Sub type Unknown GUID Name: {00002000-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx
        Input Pin 'input pin'
            Connected to pin 'Output' of filter 'K:\Video DVDs\Legend of the Seeker\LOTS S01E01 Prophecy.avi'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Stream  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_Avi, Format type TIME_FORMAT_NONE

    Filter 'K:\Video DVDs\Legend of the Seeker\LOTS S01E01 Prophecy.avi'
        CLSID: {E436EBB5-524F-11CE-9F53-0020AF0BA770}
        Host: c:\windows\system32\quartz.dll
        Output Pin 'Output'
            Connected to pin 'input pin' of filter 'AVI Splitter'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Stream  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_Avi, Format type TIME_FORMAT_NONE
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glynor

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Re: Seem to have dropped frames with RO
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2011, 03:20:43 pm »
Cool, thanks.  Do you happen to have any smaller (meaning, shorter) ones that exhibit the problem that you could post to MegaUpload or something?

I'd be happy to test it out on my Pentium D system.

I'm waiting for that stupid thing to reboot.  There is a way EVR can tell you about dropped frames, but I can't remember how without looking.
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pauly139

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Re: Seem to have dropped frames with RO
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2011, 03:24:25 pm »
No I don't - I'll try and find a way to get one to you though.
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pauly139

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Re: Seem to have dropped frames with RO
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2011, 03:37:11 pm »
Also I found some frame rate stats, with Windows merit-based it is outputting ~23.8 fps, with RO it is ~22.8. Neither one is reporting dropped frames, however RO is annoying to watch with these videos so I'll simply choose windows merit-based for now.

I tried them on another PC I have, an I3-2120 w 8GB RAM, and they play fine on that with RO. So I think it is just a problem of being under-powered on my HTPC.
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JimH

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Re: Seem to have dropped frames with RO
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2011, 03:49:28 pm »
I wonder if something like a virus checker is slowing down the PC.  You might take a look at all background processes to see if anything can be removed.  Power settings might also make a difference.
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glynor

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Re: Seem to have dropped frames with RO
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2011, 03:54:42 pm »
Yeah... You shouldn't be seeing that much of a Framerate deviation.  I agree generally with Jim.  Something else is going on there.

I'm playing a H264 compressed 720p file on my Pentium D system right now, in Red October Standard, and the framerate is staying right at 23.80-23.90 and I'm not getting any dropped frames.  It isn't quite 4mbps, but it is a 3.7mbps file.

EVR will show you dropped frames.  Right click on the playing video and choose DirectShow Filters -> Enhanced Video Renderer.  This will pop up the EVR info dialog, which lists the current framerate and shows any frames dropped by the renderer.

Can we also get a copy/paste of the filter graph while using Red October?  I know what it SHOULD be, but I want to make sure I see what's happening.
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pauly139

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Re: Seem to have dropped frames with RO
« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2011, 04:31:05 pm »
With RO

Filter Graph Info:

    Filter 'JRiver Audio Renderer'
        CLSID: {A4002F8E-510F-442C-8AD3-F9C7B23FB394}
        Host:
        Input Pin 'In'
            Connected to pin 'Output' of filter 'LAV Audio Decoder (auto-configured)'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_IEEE_FLOAT, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx

    Filter 'Enhanced Video Renderer'
        CLSID: {FA10746C-9B63-4B6C-BC49-FC300EA5F256}
        Host: c:\windows\system32\evr.dll
        Input Pin 'EVR Input0'
            Connected to pin 'Out' of filter 'ffdshow Video Decoder (auto-configured)'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_YV12, Format type FORMAT_VideoInfo2
        Input Pin 'EVR Input1'

    Filter 'ffdshow Video Decoder (auto-configured)'
        CLSID: {04FE9017-F873-410E-871E-AB91661A4EF7}
        Host: C:\Users\Media\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 16\Plugins\ffdshow\ffdshow.ax
        Input Pin 'In'
            Connected to pin 'Output' of filter 'JRiver Video Monitor'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type Unknown GUID Name: {31435641-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}, Format type FORMAT_MPEG2_VIDEO
        Output Pin 'Out'
            Connected to pin 'EVR Input0' of filter 'Enhanced Video Renderer'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_YV12, Format type FORMAT_VideoInfo2
        Input Pin 'In Text'

    Filter 'LAV Audio Decoder (auto-configured)'
        CLSID: {E8E73B6B-4CB3-44A4-BE99-4F7BCB96E491}
        Host: C:\Users\Media\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 16\Plugins\lav\LAVAudio.ax
        Input Pin 'Input'
            Connected to pin 'Output' of filter 'JRiver Audio Monitor'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_DOLBY_AC3, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx
        Output Pin 'Output'
            Connected to pin 'In' of filter 'JRiver Audio Renderer'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_IEEE_FLOAT, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx

    Filter 'JRiver Video Monitor'
        CLSID: {A4207487-E7D8-406B-9882-B66370DE2492}
        Host:
        Input Pin 'Input'
            Connected to pin 'Video' of filter 'LAV Source Splitter'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type Unknown GUID Name: {31435641-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}, Format type FORMAT_MPEG2_VIDEO
        Output Pin 'Output'
            Connected to pin 'In' of filter 'ffdshow Video Decoder (auto-configured)'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type Unknown GUID Name: {31435641-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}, Format type FORMAT_MPEG2_VIDEO

    Filter 'JRiver Audio Monitor'
        CLSID: {A4207487-E7D8-406B-9882-B66370DE2492}
        Host:
        Input Pin 'Input'
            Connected to pin 'Audio' of filter 'LAV Source Splitter'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_DOLBY_AC3, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx
        Output Pin 'Output'
            Connected to pin 'Input' of filter 'LAV Audio Decoder (auto-configured)'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_DOLBY_AC3, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx

    Filter 'LAV Source Splitter'
        CLSID: {B98D13E7-55DB-4385-A33D-09FD1BA26338}
        Host: C:\Users\Media\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 16\Plugins\lav\LAVSplitter.ax
        Output Pin 'Video'
            Connected to pin 'Input' of filter 'JRiver Video Monitor'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type Unknown GUID Name: {31435641-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}, Format type FORMAT_MPEG2_VIDEO
        Output Pin 'Audio'
            Connected to pin 'Input' of filter 'JRiver Audio Monitor'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_DOLBY_AC3, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx
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pauly139

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Re: Seem to have dropped frames with RO
« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2011, 04:51:57 pm »
Now for the confusing part, I set that same PC to RO HQ, and it is as smooth as silk!!

Here is the filter graph...

Filter Graph Info:

    Filter 'JRiver Audio Renderer'
        CLSID: {A4002F8E-510F-442C-8AD3-F9C7B23FB394}
        Host:
        Input Pin 'In'
            Connected to pin 'Output' of filter 'LAV Audio Decoder (auto-configured)'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_IEEE_FLOAT, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx

    Filter 'madVR'
        CLSID: {E1A8B82A-32CE-4B0D-BE0D-AA68C772E423}
        Host: C:\Users\Media\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 16\Plugins\madvr\madvr.ax
        Input Pin 'Input'
            Connected to pin 'Out' of filter 'ffdshow Video Decoder (auto-configured)'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_YV12, Format type FORMAT_VideoInfo2

    Filter 'ffdshow Video Decoder (auto-configured)'
        CLSID: {04FE9017-F873-410E-871E-AB91661A4EF7}
        Host: C:\Users\Media\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 16\Plugins\ffdshow\ffdshow.ax
        Input Pin 'In'
            Connected to pin 'Output' of filter 'JRiver Video Monitor'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type Unknown GUID Name: {31435641-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}, Format type FORMAT_MPEG2_VIDEO
        Output Pin 'Out'
            Connected to pin 'Input' of filter 'madVR'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_YV12, Format type FORMAT_VideoInfo2
        Input Pin 'In Text'

    Filter 'LAV Audio Decoder (auto-configured)'
        CLSID: {E8E73B6B-4CB3-44A4-BE99-4F7BCB96E491}
        Host: C:\Users\Media\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 16\Plugins\lav\LAVAudio.ax
        Input Pin 'Input'
            Connected to pin 'Output' of filter 'JRiver Audio Monitor'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_DOLBY_AC3, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx
        Output Pin 'Output'
            Connected to pin 'In' of filter 'JRiver Audio Renderer'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_IEEE_FLOAT, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx

    Filter 'JRiver Video Monitor'
        CLSID: {A4207487-E7D8-406B-9882-B66370DE2492}
        Host:
        Input Pin 'Input'
            Connected to pin 'Video' of filter 'LAV Source Splitter'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type Unknown GUID Name: {31435641-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}, Format type FORMAT_MPEG2_VIDEO
        Output Pin 'Output'
            Connected to pin 'In' of filter 'ffdshow Video Decoder (auto-configured)'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type Unknown GUID Name: {31435641-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}, Format type FORMAT_MPEG2_VIDEO

    Filter 'JRiver Audio Monitor'
        CLSID: {A4207487-E7D8-406B-9882-B66370DE2492}
        Host:
        Input Pin 'Input'
            Connected to pin 'Audio' of filter 'LAV Source Splitter'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_DOLBY_AC3, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx
        Output Pin 'Output'
            Connected to pin 'Input' of filter 'LAV Audio Decoder (auto-configured)'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_DOLBY_AC3, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx

    Filter 'LAV Source Splitter'
        CLSID: {B98D13E7-55DB-4385-A33D-09FD1BA26338}
        Host: C:\Users\Media\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 16\Plugins\lav\LAVSplitter.ax
        Output Pin 'Video'
            Connected to pin 'Input' of filter 'JRiver Video Monitor'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type Unknown GUID Name: {31435641-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}, Format type FORMAT_MPEG2_VIDEO
        Output Pin 'Audio'
            Connected to pin 'Input' of filter 'JRiver Audio Monitor'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_DOLBY_AC3, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx

I'm confused, but happy that I can have the simplicity of RO, and HQ as well!
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