Topic: A/V Sync Problems in TV Recordings and Blu-ray Playback (Read 10374 times)

roolark · « **on:** July 16, 2011, 04:49:24 pm »

When I play back recorded TV, the audio is ahead of the video. If I take my mouse and click on the playback progress bar (rewind), then the A/V syncs up perfectly. Pausing and restarting doesn't make a difference, just a rewind click on the progress.

When I playback Blu-ray, I also see this problem, but I have not found a solution as I did with the TV recordings. The A/V is simply permanently out-of-sync.

MC 16.0.128, using RO Standard, bitstreaming=none.

Blu-ray discs tried:

Behind Enemy Lines (works fine with RO Standard)

Lord of the Rings: Two Towers, video looks OK, audio is ~3-4 seconds ahead of video. Nothing I've tried has resolved this.

Do you have any suggestions?

Matt · « **Reply #1 on:** July 16, 2011, 05:08:27 pm »

Try WASAPI - Event Style with 25 ms of buffering.

More here:
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Audio_Output_Modes

roolark · « **Reply #2 on:** July 23, 2011, 02:07:54 pm »

I hadn't responded till now because I've been trying every possible option (including your suggestion Matt, without success). Today, however, I finally found a pseudo solution.

My setup:
AMD Zacate (E350 low power cpu/apu)
4GB ddr3 ram
Windows 2008 R2
Playback device: Realtek Optical

1. I upgraded to MC 16.0.136 same problem.
2. I was using RO Standard, bitstreaming=none
3. I tried your suggestion WASAPI - Event Style with 25 ms of buffering with no success, but it got me going in a good direction.

My currently acceptable settings (I can now watch my LOTR Blu-rays):
1. Audo: Direct Sound > Device:Optical > Hardware Direct > Buffering .15 seconds. Prebuffering 20 seconds, silence at startup 10 seconds.
2. Video: Red October Standard, Bitstreaming Yes S/PDIF, Videoclock NO, A/V sync correction 0 ms

This is now allowing me to watch my blu-rays, in sync but is not ideal because when I start playback initially, the audio is still about 3 seconds ahead of the video. I must skip forward and back several times before the stars align and sync occurs. Still, at least sync occurs, which is better than previously when I first posted.

Do you have any further suggestions that might remove the need for several back and forward skips for the sync to work?

Thanks for your help, btw, with every new release MC just gets better.

JimH · « **Reply #3 on:** July 23, 2011, 02:45:42 pm »

Try setting videoclock on if you haven't.

roolark · « **Reply #4 on:** July 24, 2011, 12:01:14 pm »

Videoclock made the problem much worse.

It caused the audio to become more than 4 seconds faster than the video.

JimH · « **Reply #5 on:** July 24, 2011, 01:37:01 pm »

Try a smaller buffer. .10, for example.

Please run the benchmark program under MC Help and report the results.

roolark · « **Reply #6 on:** July 25, 2011, 02:10:53 pm »

Here's the benchmark, below. Do any of the renderers in MC support hardware acceleration?

=== Running Benchmarks (please do not interrupt) ===

Running 'Math' benchmark...
Single-threaded integer math... 20.848 seconds
Single-threaded floating point math... 7.785 seconds
Multi-threaded integer math... 17.265 seconds
Multi-threaded mixed math... 7.821 seconds
Score: 354

Running 'Image' benchmark...
Image creation / destruction... 4.527 seconds
Flood filling... 3.887 seconds
Direct copying... 2.963 seconds
Small renders... 14.230 seconds
Bilinear rendering... 9.907 seconds
Bicubic rendering... 8.506 seconds
Score: 500

Running 'Database' benchmark...
Create database... 2.186 seconds
Populate database... 4.711 seconds
Save database... 0.637 seconds
Reload database... 0.270 seconds
Search database... 5.200 seconds
Sort database... 3.754 seconds
Group database... 3.225 seconds
Score: 1076

JRMark (version 16.0.136): 643__

Matt · « **Reply #7 on:** July 25, 2011, 02:14:50 pm »

You may just be hitting the limits of the hardware.

LAV CUVID is used by Red October HQ in the latest builds, but this requires an nVidia GPU.

You could try Red October with additional filters and pick DXVA, CoreAVC, or some other faster video decoder?

JimH · « **Reply #8 on:** July 25, 2011, 02:27:59 pm »

Quote from: roolark on July 25, 2011, 02:10:53 pm

JRMark (version 16.0.136): 643

That's near the bottom end of what is current these days. You can see more here:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=54396.0

roolark · « **Reply #9 on:** July 25, 2011, 03:09:31 pm »

Thanks, I'll try some of the other decoder suggestions.

@JimH, I'm aware that the scores are low (at the bottom of what's current). However, I feel the need to point out that the processor / graphics combo is newer technology, and while yes, it is "low-power" it handles all my other 1080i/p videos perfectly. Provided that hardware acceleration is supported, I see no reason why I should have problems watching some of these blu-ray movies (and no others).

Things that come across just fine:

1080i TV
Youtube HD
Some blu-ray movies ("Behind enemy lines")

Netflix does not in HD, but then Silverlight and Netflix have not jointly implemented hardware-accel in their streaming.

It makes sense to me, that a silent, low-power, new technology PC be connected to my TV. It makes sense that with HDMI out for video and optical for my audio, that I should be able to watch my video content with the audio in sync.

The video is not choppy... the audio is not choppy... they simply don't sync (well).

Just fyi fwiw

roolark · « **Reply #10 on:** July 25, 2011, 03:24:25 pm »

So, I couldn't find dxva listed in additional filters, and I looked online and found Media Player Classic, which I've used in the past but not since purchasing MC.

I tried out LOTR-Two Towers (ripped to my drive as bdmv) and it played, in sync, perfectly, without the need for me to change any settings.

Can you direct me to a place in MPC where I can find out what filters etc., it's using... so I can then post them here (and use them in MC)?

roolark · « **Reply #11 on:** July 25, 2011, 06:24:37 pm »

From what I can tell, MPC is using the following:

EVR Custom Presenter

WMVideo Decoder DMO

DirectSound device
buffer 10ms

LAV Audio
a/v sync correction
convert output to standard channel layouts

This setup is working perfectly in MPC, however, I can't seem to get this setup in MC. EVR CP is not an available option, and the other filters, when added, exhibit the same sync issue as when using RO Standard.

roolark · « **Reply #12 on:** July 29, 2011, 11:13:14 pm »

Haven't heard back from anyone yet. I wasn't trying to rub anyone wrong...

Look, I know my hardware benchmark was low, but MC's benchmarks don't take into account new APU's (CPU+GPU), or gpu's at all. My hardware IS perfectly capable of playing HD, and blu-ray discs, and even apparently my ripped ones (using Media Player Classic).

So I can confirm that all my blu-ray rips/mkvs play just fine in Media Player Classic. No audio/video sync problems at all. That's great, except I want to be using JRiver Media Center, which I payed for, not MPC. I like MC better.

So that's why I'm asking, what do I need to look for in MPC, that I can implement in MC, so that I can watch blu-rays in-sync?

Everyone on this board seams to be fairly knowledgeable about filters, etc., so certainly someone can point in the right direction...

JimH · « **Reply #13 on:** July 30, 2011, 05:09:24 am »

What version of MC are you now using? Latest at top of MC16 board.

roolark · « **Reply #14 on:** July 30, 2011, 01:45:11 pm »

I had been using .136 most recently. I updated to .141 just now and tested without success.

I have WASAPI Event set, and tried it at both 10ms and 25ms.

Bitstreaming off, videoclock on, RO Standard.

I've seen a post about Dxva (which I think you mentioned as an additional filter possibility). I can't find Dxva in the MC list of additional filters though.

Thank you for continuing to help me troubleshoot this.

roolark · « **Reply #15 on:** July 30, 2011, 04:42:44 pm »

After the stars aligned correctly, so have my filters. All my video content is flowing smoothly and in sync with the audio. This thread helped tremendously:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=64908.0

I'll reiterate that my pc is one of the new "low-power" variety from AMD (similar to the ION only better imho)

Audio >
directsound
output mode buffering .9s

Video >
RO HQ w/ additional filters

Filters >
Source: automatic
Other: LAV Audio Decoder + ffdshow dxva video decoder
Renderer: EVR

I had to make some changes tot he ffdshow dxva decoder settings as follows:
* Directshow control > Merit Very High, multiple instance: Only 1 check all in graph
* Hardware Acceleration > checked "dxva enabled h264 + vc1", compatibility: skip level check, post processing "surface overlay"
* subtitles: checked all, including "enable embedded"

Prior to a week ago, I had no clue what any of this meant. I'm glad it works, though.

Anyone else with a low-power ATI/AMD processor (like e-series) could try these out I think.

roolark · « **Reply #16 on:** August 22, 2011, 11:16:52 pm »

The addition of DXVA as an option in .149+ has worked perfectly. Thank you guys!

BayensF · « **Reply #17 on:** February 11, 2012, 05:14:07 pm »

Quote from: roolark on July 30, 2011, 04:42:44 pm

After the stars aligned correctly, so have my filters. All my video content is flowing smoothly and in sync with the audio. This thread helped tremendously:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=64908.0

I'll reiterate that my pc is one of the new "low-power" variety from AMD (similar to the ION only better imho)

Audio >
directsound
output mode buffering .9s

Video >
RO HQ w/ additional filters

Filters >
Source: automatic
Other: LAV Audio Decoder + ffdshow dxva video decoder
Renderer: EVR

I had to make some changes tot he ffdshow dxva decoder settings as follows:
* Directshow control > Merit Very High, multiple instance: Only 1 check all in graph
* Hardware Acceleration > checked "dxva enabled h264 + vc1", compatibility: skip level check, post processing "surface overlay"
* subtitles: checked all, including "enable embedded"

Prior to a week ago, I had no clue what any of this meant. I'm glad it works, though.

Anyone else with a low-power ATI/AMD processor (like e-series) could try these out I think.

Hi, Yes I run also AMD E350 on a ASUS Pro Board, and have now MC 17.084 loaded. I added the latest drivers (Catalyst 12.1 + Media Codec Package) from AMD/ATI. About the settings as you have described, Audio I can find, Video also for RO HQ, but additional filters and filter setting...? Can you help me?
I also have BDMV playback issues, no smooth video playback and audio not synchronized. With the updated Catalyst driver it improved a bit. Today the only way to play bdmv files is with Arcsoft THT 5.0, and then it looks and sound great! So the hardware can do it.

Thanks in advance for your reply, with kind regards,

Fred

JimH · « **Reply #18 on:** February 11, 2012, 05:23:25 pm »

Quote from: BayensF on February 11, 2012, 05:14:07 pm

I also have BDMV playback issues, no smooth video playback and audio not synchronized. With the updated Catalyst driver it improved a bit. Today the only way to play bdmv files is with Arcsoft THT 5.0, and then it looks and sound great! So the hardware can do it.

We don't recommend using additional filters. Did you try Red October Standard? It requires less CPU than HQ.

roolark · « **Reply #19 on:** February 12, 2012, 10:38:54 am »

@Fred: This post was for MC 16, and you're using MC 17. The problem STILL exists in MC 17, and so does the solution, it's just located in a different place. In MC 17, you will need to Select Tools > Options > Video > Video Mode > Advanced > Custom. Then you will need to select "Custom Video Mode Settings" > Add > Video Renderer > Enhanced Video Renderer". Next, you will need to click "Add > Video Decoder > ffdshow DXVA". Then click OK a couple times and you're done. If "ffdshow DXVA" isn't an option, you'll need to download and install it, then restart your computer and try this again. Also, please post a reply on whether this worked for you...

JimH · « **Reply #20 on:** February 12, 2012, 10:55:23 am »

roolark,
RO and ROHQ were designed to get rid of the complexity of DirectShow filter selection. If you prefer to go your own way on this, that's fine of course, but it would be better not to recommend complex alternatives to other users.

roolark · « **Reply #21 on:** February 12, 2012, 11:02:06 am »

@JimH

I understand. The problem is, RO does NOT WORK ON THE AMD E350 for blu ray playback.

Don't take my word for it, read the posts of other people with the same processor. Let me reiterate: Red October standard or HQ, regardless, do not display blu rays in anything other than an out-of-sync slide show.

If you want people with AMD E series APU's to be able to use MC, then then real solution is to add ffdshow DXVA to the list of standard components that RO uses when it detects this processor. Otherwise, you're telling people to live with choppy video.

Consider this, Fred obviously was already using RO Standard when he tried playback. Obviously playback did not work for Fred. Now he's trying to find a solution.

BayensF · « **Reply #22 on:** February 12, 2012, 04:50:10 pm »

Thanks roolark,

I will try your solution also. For now I found a solution that works for 99.9%.
Video > custom mode > RO STD > Video Decoder > Microsoft DTV DVD Video
Audio > Directsound > Output Buffering 0.95
It works, but sometimes it's as you say "choppy video". And for JimH, again, with Arc Soft THT it's PERFECT so E350 can do the job, the problem is in MC!

As I live in the Netherlands and it's late I will try tomorrow evening your proposed solution
I joined also a tread on DVB C, also here I am not the onlyone with problems, but I am very happy to see that MC17 has the option! I can not wait to see it work.

I also dropped a bug on MyRiver, the latest ipad download is slow and don't show playlists with radio streams.....but I am still a very happy user.....because I like to see that people take care about ones problems.

To be continued.

roolark · « **Reply #23 on:** February 12, 2012, 05:29:07 pm »

@Fred:

I forgot to mention in my previous posts that I found it necessary to enable Bitstreaming too, in the video settings. I'm glad you've found a solution that works.

BayensF · « **Reply #24 on:** February 13, 2012, 10:16:27 am »

Hi again,

I have downloaded, but it seems I have a lot of settings to do. After the first set up MC does not see the drivers so the starting point will be to link it to JR MC.

Anyway, better to start this during the weekend. Before, I will see if we are satisfied with how things are now. If it is I trust the JR MC development team that they will do everything to satisfy also AMD E350 users and enhance things as much as possible.

JohnT · « **Reply #25 on:** February 13, 2012, 12:35:42 pm »

Hey guys, as of 17.0.85, MC's Red October Standard supports DXVA video acceleration using the LAV video decoder.

Just check the hardware acceleration checkbox in Options->Video and it will utilize DXVA acceleration on your AMD video cards. Let us know how this works out for you. For best results, always download the latest driver for your video card since the support for hardware acceleration is always a little iffy and they're constantly doing bug fixes. I have a Radeon HD 6870 in my computer and the hardware acceleration works fine and saves me 20 watts of power while playing movies.

Hendrik · « **Reply #26 on:** February 13, 2012, 01:11:31 pm »

The current incarnation of DXVA in LAV might not be fast enough for very low-powered systems though, but i haven't tested it myself on a E-350, those things are too slow for me.
An upcoming version of LAV (possibly next version) will have a DXVA decoder optimized for low-performance situations.

BayensF · « **Reply #27 on:** February 13, 2012, 02:42:33 pm »

Quote from: JohnT on February 13, 2012, 12:35:42 pm

Hey guys, as of 17.0.85, MC's Red October Standard supports DXVA video acceleration using the LAV video decoder.

Just check the hardware acceleration checkbox in Options->Video and it will utilize DXVA acceleration on your AMD video cards. Let us know how this works out for you. For best results, always download the latest driver for your video card since the support for hardware acceleration is always a little iffy and they're constantly doing bug fixes. I have a Radeon HD 6870 in my computer and the hardware acceleration works fine and saves me 20 watts of power while playing movies.

Hi John! I just check for you, sorry it does not work only in combination with the settings I have described before which is Microsoft DTV

JohnT · « **Reply #28 on:** February 13, 2012, 03:13:19 pm »

Ok, thanks for checking. It sounds like nevcairiel may soon have a version of the LAV video decoder that will help you out on the E-350. As soon as that's available we'll add it to the Media Center build.

BayensF · « **Reply #29 on:** May 23, 2012, 02:42:02 am »

Hi,

Any news on this topic? Is the new LAV already in the latest version? I don't see any improvements.

JimH · « **Reply #30 on:** May 23, 2012, 06:31:57 am »

MC17 stays up to date with the new versions of LAV. It's usually a week or two behind since it takes time to add them and test.

JohnT · « **Reply #31 on:** May 23, 2012, 01:41:13 pm »

Quote from: BayensF on May 23, 2012, 02:42:02 am

Hi,

Any news on this topic? Is the new LAV already in the latest version? I don't see any improvements.

Are you on MC16 or MC 17? MC17 has had several changes for supporting low power machines.

BayensF · « **Reply #32 on:** May 24, 2012, 03:57:47 pm »

I am on the last version of MC 17.

JimH · « **Reply #33 on:** May 24, 2012, 05:19:58 pm »

When you report the version, please state the entire version number. 17.0.147 is on the download page, for example. 17.0.155 is on the MC17 board.

JohnT · « **Reply #34 on:** May 25, 2012, 09:19:32 am »

Quote from: BayensF on May 24, 2012, 03:57:47 pm

I am on the last version of MC 17.

We need to get this working for you on your AMD E350. A while ago we added special code to enable DXVA2 native acceleration on Intel Atom processors. We don't have an E350 around here to test on, but it would be great if someone with this processor could try installing LAV video decoder separately on your system and configure it for DXVA2 native HW acceleration, then add it as a custom video decoder in MC and see if it works well in Red October custom mode. If it does, we'll add special handling like we have for the Intel Atom. If you're not familiar with setting up a custom filter in MC, just ask for help here.

BayensF · « **Reply #35 on:** May 25, 2012, 11:09:47 am »

John,

No problem I will work on that, just let me know exactly what to do and I will do it during this evening, I am in the Netherlands (GMT +1), so you can expect a prompt reply before you start your weekend if you are able to indicate what I have to do.

I know were to work in the J River software user interface, but let me know were to put/find the right directories for filters.....

Thanks.

JohnT · « **Reply #36 on:** May 25, 2012, 04:11:36 pm »

The link for LAV installer is here:
http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.50.5.exe

Install the filter.

Set Tools/Options/Video/Video mode = Red October Advanced - Custom

Click "Custom Video Mode settings"
Leave "Start with..." set at "Red October Standard"
Click Add
select "Video Decoder" in the "Type:" box
select "LAV Video Decoder" from "Filter:" dropdown

Play a video.
Right click on playing video and select "Directshow filters -> LAV Video Decoder"
In the Hardware Acceleration drop box select "DXVA2 Native"
Leave all the codecs for HW decoding checked.
Click OK

Now stop and restart the video playback and see how it performs on your system.

BayensF · « **Reply #37 on:** May 26, 2012, 01:05:00 am »

John

;)Thanks!

It's working great. During the first looks it seems that the sound and video are well Synchronized, so even no need to delay sound playback.

For the ones that need to know, I am at 17.0.160.

Greetings from a sunny Holland

With kind regards,

Fred.

JohnT · « **Reply #38 on:** May 29, 2012, 08:17:18 am »

Glad to hear it's working!
So it sounds like in Red October Standard mode, we need to add a check for an AMD E350 processor and, when detected, automatically enable DXVA2 Native HW acceleration. Would you be willing to test this out on your system when it's implemented? It would just be a matter of selecting "Red October Standard" again and testing video playback.

Hendrik · « **Reply #39 on:** May 29, 2012, 09:17:48 am »

I thought you already use DXVA2 Native in RO Std mode, when HW Decoding is enabled?
Its really the only sensible option on systems where CUVID or QuickSync is not available (ie. AMD systems). I would even consider preferring it over CUVID for RO Std to avoid any potential performance problems, only QuickSync is much better if available.

Some pseudo code for you, how i would set it up:
(This assumes HW decoding is actually enabled already)

If ROStd then
  If QuickSyncAvailable then
   UseQuickSync
  else
   UseDXVA2Native
else if ROHQ then
  If QuickSyncAvailable then
   UseQuickSync
  elseif CUVIDAvailable then
   UseCUVID
  else
   UseDXVA2CopyBack
end

You can ask LAV Video if QuickSync or CUVID is available, its detection should be mostly reliable.

JohnT · « **Reply #40 on:** May 29, 2012, 09:48:33 am »

Yes you're right, we do use DXVA2 Native in RO Std when there is no CUDA support on the system, so it does seem like this should have "just worked" on his system. Question for BayensF, when playback was failing, were you in RO Standard or HQ? Could you test again with "Red October Standard" enabled and send me a log file if doesn't work? (johnt at jriver dot com). Thanks.

BayensF · « **Reply #41 on:** May 31, 2012, 04:00:08 pm »

Hi again,

Sorry for my late reply, I was on a business trip for a few day's. Anyway I was on RO Standard and for you I set it back to that and it confirmed, it does not work.

I will send you the log files.

With kind regards,

Fred.

JohnT · « **Reply #42 on:** June 01, 2012, 09:08:56 am »

From your log file it does not appear that HW acceleration is enabled. Please try again with "Red October Standard" and "Hardware accelerate video decoding when possible" checked. If it still doesn't work, please send another log file. Thanks!

BayensF · « **Reply #43 on:** June 02, 2012, 05:05:07 pm »

Hi John,

I have tested it and you will not get a log file from me because IT WORKS!

Thanks for your support.

BayensF · « **Reply #44 on:** September 06, 2012, 02:40:07 pm »

Sorry, I am back again with the same problem.

I had to complete rebuild my PC. Loaded MC 17.0182 (latest version) but it's not working. Frames freeze and the sound is about 3 seconds before the picture.

I started with RO STD and HW acc, no success, so next I went with Jim's LAV settings.....

For me it seems to be that a crucial file is missing but which one?

BayensF · « **Reply #45 on:** September 06, 2012, 05:26:41 pm »

OK,

After an evening of hard work, a lot of Google..the solution is.....disable almost everything in AMD Catalyst related to the GPU. You may think (like me) that every acceleration or enhancement will improve playback...it's the reverse, it will slow down video playback. RO STD with HW ACC is still the right setting for MC.

JohnT · « **Reply #46 on:** September 07, 2012, 07:58:11 am »

Glad to hear it's working again, and thanks for posting the solution so others may benefit.

BayensF · « **Reply #47 on:** September 07, 2012, 11:28:48 am »

Quote from: JohnT on September 07, 2012, 07:58:11 am

Glad to hear it's working again, and thanks for posting the solution so others may benefit.

I am sorry to say, it worked but after 1 restart it was bad again. I will be rebuilding during the weekend, any help will be welcome.

No help received....but it's solved...by loading Power DVD 11. This showed that the computer was able to do the job, after a reboot also MC was doing the job??? I assume that Power DVD is loading some...? That will change my....? I think it's related to improving video acceleration settings, anyway I will unload the soft (as it is a trial version) and see what happens....to be continued....

...everything is working, but not as smooth as before the rebuild. I have a bad feeling that when I changed from Juli@ (pci) soundcard to Asus D2X (PCIe) I have reached the limits of the AMD 350 processor.

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Author Topic: A/V Sync Problems in TV Recordings and Blu-ray Playback (Read 10374 times)