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[steelman1991]

Rick - any pictures of your theatre view - purely for comparison of course lol

[rick.ca]

Rick - any pictures of your theatre view - purely for comparison of course lol

There's a slide show here. Any attempt to show it all would only illustrate how hopelessly obsessive I am. So I just did a series of shots to illustrate the views I use for series.

Just so you understand what you're looking at...I "watch & delete" episodes, so what you see are only what I currently have available. The Released and Imported views help me ensure my automated system is delivering episodes as expected. I seems I watched and deleted everything released and imported in the last few weeks, so those views aren't very interesting. As a tribute to favourite series that have ended, the Ended view is for a small collection of pilot and final episodes. The Series view is the primary and most often used view.

[imugli]

 

That's all...

[rick.ca]

It's really not meant to be shocking.

There's probably a lot there that most users would not need or want to be bothered with. Much of what I do I do because I can. And it stays that way until I get sick of it and replace it with something "better." But I hope that doesn't obscure a more general point. All of the things illustrated are very easy to do.

As a whole, the Theatre View system is easy to use because it presents very few real barriers to whatever you want to do. At the same time, it's difficult to use—for the same reason. To create a view that actually does something useful, you have to think about what data you have, how it gets updated, what logic will be effective in choosing files to include, how raw data might be combined and manipulated to a form suitable to the purpose of the view, etc.

To be frank, the common assertion Theatre View is "too difficult" to configure or use is just plain silly. It is far more elegant a system than any I've seen. There are ways it could be made easier to configure. That's where the development focus needs to be. Providing functional default data sets and corresponding views is helpful—to a point. Creating the impression the program should magically organize the user's collection according to unknown preferences is not. It won't work, and it's an unnecessary distraction from the true potential of the program. Not for geeks with too much time on their hands, but anyone willing to take responsibility for deciding for themselves what it is they want, and then spending a few minutes discovering how the program (almost invariably) will do that for them.

[imugli]

It's really not meant to be shocking.

There's probably a lot there that most users would not need or want to be bothered with. Much of what I do I do because I can. And it stays that way until I get sick of it and replace it with something "better." But I hope that doesn't obscure a more general point. All of the things illustrated are very easy to do.

As a whole, the Theatre View system is easy to use because it presents very few real barriers to whatever you want to do. At the same time, it's difficult to use—for the same reason. To create a view that actually does something useful, you have to think about what data you have, how it gets updated, what logic will be effective in choosing files to include, how raw data might be combined and manipulated to a form suitable to the purpose of the view, etc.

To be frank, the common assertion Theatre View is "too difficult" to configure or use is just plain silly. It is far more elegant a system than any I've seen. There are ways it could be made easier to configure. That's where the development focus needs to be. Providing functional default data sets and corresponding views is helpful—to a point. Creating the impression the program should magically organize the user's collection according to unknown preferences is not. It won't work, and it's an unnecessary distraction from the true potential of the program. Not for geeks with too much time on their hands, but anyone willing to take responsibility for deciding for themselves what it is they want, and then spending a few minutes discovering how the program (almost invariably) will do that for them.

Completely agree with all of that. Well said.

[)p(]

It is far more elegant a system than any I've seen.

I feel the same you can setup complex views almost fully from within the gui. I have not seen anything that comes close to that.

Anyway to the op this is a video I posted before of theaterview I think it shows pretty well how it looks in use.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xf1cQJ0KAHo

[CountryBumkin]

I feel the same you can setup complex views almost fully from within the gui. I have not seen anything that comes close to that.

Anyway to the op this is a video I posted before of theaterview I think it shows pretty well how it looks in use.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xf1cQJ0KAHo

Looks good! What (brand) is the touch pad you are using?

[)p(]

Looks good! What (brand) is the touch pad you are using?

ipad2 connected to mc running on the server using splashtop remote.

[Daydream]

Android version works just as good (Iconia A500).

This would make a very interesting case for the streaming topic. x264 + wireless N should be able to beat the pants off of this but somebody needs to write the streaming part of the idea
At any rate, maybe now I have some incentives to imagine more skinning stuff for tablets.

One thing about the screenshots (I'm the nitpicking devil ) - triple title on page for some of them. Roller, top left (is that a dummy element?), middle right.

[WeeHappyPixie]

There's a slide show here.

Sweet... What skin are you using and is it publicly available.

John

[raldo]

An exchange mechanism (between computers/instances of MC) for view schemes would've been great.

I've done this a few times (for friends and family) by cloning a library, emptying the new library, backing it up, and then restoring it on the other computer. Difficult and cumbersome, indeed.

[)p(]

An exchange mechanism (between computers/instances of MC) for view schemes would've been great.

I've done this a few times (for friends and family) by cloning a library, emptying the new library, backing it up, and then restoring it on the other computer. Difficult and cumbersome, indeed.

You can save view schemes and load them on another pc. Right-click on a view in the tree...select customize view. Under saved views you can save and load them. They are stored as .jvi files that you can easily copy between computers.

[raldo]

You can save view schemes and load them on another pc. Right-click on a view in the tree...select customize view. Under saved views you can save and load them. They are stored as .jvi files that you can easily copy between computers.

There you go!

But I have a lot of user defined library tags. Are those exported too?

[rick.ca]

Sweet... What skin are you using and is it publicly available.

AFAIK, the default Obsidian view is the only one that fully supports all the features of Theatre View, so that's what I use. I use themes with video backgrounds to make it a little more interesting.

It's not easy finding a video background that "works" (i.e., interesting but not distracting). I found a few, including the "Night Sky" used in my Video menu, at DreamScene.org. I'm not sure where I found the "PS3 Wave" I'm using for the main menu, but there's a selection of them here.

[rick.ca]

You can save view schemes and load them on another pc. Right-click on a view in the tree...select customize view. Under saved views you can save and load them. They are stored as .jvi files that you can easily copy between computers.

True, but the topic is Theatre View. I don't know of any way (short of a library copy, as raldo describes) to copy and exchange Theatre View configurations. Even if there were a way, it would not preserve any aspect of the current configuration, and therefore of limited use. Much more useful would be the ability to copy and restore individual branches of the view configuration as suggested here.

I'm not sure, but the entire File Info Panel configuration can probably be copied and restored via theater view file info templates.xml. Likely of more practical use is the existing ability to cut and paste individual templates via the clipboard.

[Aside] This has led me to a useful realization... I make fairly extensive use of the File Info Panel configuration, and use a lot of expression there. When I change what or how data is saved in fields, I have to consider how that change might affect my existing configuration. It seems I can simply load theater view file info templates.xml into my XML editor and use that to find the affected items and make the necessary changes. A simple test suggests the change is recognized immediately by MC, and vice versa.

[steelman1991]

Rick - thanks for the slideshow - basic information viewed in a logical manner, ideal. But exactly how long did you spend achieving that look - given that we're only seeing a portion of it.

Due to a PSU/MB failure I've just had the dubious opportunity of setting up both apps. Purely as a comparison and to perhaps provide alternative ideas, this is what can be achieved in XBMC - in around 10 minutes - experience dependant (much like here). Don't want to make this a 'pissing contest', just to let you see what can be achieved. That timing also included the scrape of metadata.

[JimH]

... I don't know of any way (short of a library copy, as raldo describes) to copy and exchange Theatre View configurations...

Backup in one copy of MC, restore in another (including settings).

[rick.ca]

Rick - thanks for the slideshow - basic information viewed in a logical manner, ideal. But exactly how long did you spend achieving that look - given that we're only seeing a portion of it.

That's difficult so say, considering my configuration a whole has evolved over several years. I'm not sure how relevant that is anyway. If I were to say I could rebuild my entire configuration in an hour, that doesn't mean you could. What is relevant is that a straightforward view (i.e., not involving any fancy tricks or complex expressions) can be added in minutes. I might spend considerably longer than 10 minutes configuring one to do something unusual. The fact XBMC doesn't include the ability to do such things doesn't make it easier.

I suppose for those not familiar with the configuration system, an illustration showing lots of obviously customized detail in the file information might suggest that aspect of the configuration is time-consuming. The File Info Panel can take as long as you care to spend to configure. After all, it allows you to put anything anywhere for any media type. And the "anything" includes any expression you might want to use to combine or reformat data for presentation. Having created a template for a particular file type (that being defined by an expression of your choice), that template will be applied to files of that type in all views. This also means you can have views that include different file types, and the information for each will be displayed according to it's template.

I do understand the very nature of the design creates a very real barrier to the new user. The implications of the File Info Panel system, for example, are a bit much to digest the first time you want to make one change or add a simple view of your own. But in the context of a system designed to display all your media in any number of different views, the elegant simplicity of the design can't be beat.

[rick.ca]

Backup in one copy of MC, restore in another (including settings).

I'm sure that's exactly what raldo meant by "library copy." My point was...

...Even if there were a way, it would not preserve any aspect of the current configuration, and therefore of limited use. Much more useful would be the ability to copy and restore individual branches of the view configuration as suggested here.

You can't restore someone else's settings (or another version of your own) without overwriting your current settings. Restoring settings is not a means by which users can exchange Theatre View configurations (partial or complete) as they can with Standard View view schemes saved as .jvi files.

[WeeHappyPixie]

AFAIK, the default Obsidian view is the only one that fully supports all the features of Theatre View, so that's what I use. I use themes with video backgrounds to make it a little more interesting.

It's not easy finding a video background that "works" (i.e., interesting but not distracting). I found a few, including the "Night Sky" used in my Video menu, at DreamScene.org. I'm not sure where I found the "PS3 Wave" I'm using for the main menu, but there's a selection of them here.

Thanks Rick for your info...

John

[steelman1991]

Thanks Rick for your info...

John

"........just gonnae No" - with that avatar quote you gotta be a Scot?

[Tiger100]

It's really not meant to be shocking.

There's probably a lot there that most users would not need or want to be bothered with. Much of what I do I do because I can. And it stays that way until I get sick of it and replace it with something "better." But I hope that doesn't obscure a more general point. All of the things illustrated are very easy to do.

As a whole, the Theatre View system is easy to use because it presents very few real barriers to whatever you want to do. At the same time, it's difficult to use—for the same reason. To create a view that actually does something useful, you have to think about what data you have, how it gets updated, what logic will be effective in choosing files to include, how raw data might be combined and manipulated to a form suitable to the purpose of the view, etc.

To be frank, the common assertion Theatre View is "too difficult" to configure or use is just plain silly. It is far more elegant a system than any I've seen. There are ways it could be made easier to configure. That's where the development focus needs to be. Providing functional default data sets and corresponding views is helpful—to a point. Creating the impression the program should magically organize the user's collection according to unknown preferences is not. It won't work, and it's an unnecessary distraction from the true potential of the program. Not for geeks with too much time on their hands, but anyone willing to take responsibility for deciding for themselves what it is they want, and then spending a few minutes discovering how the program (almost invariably) will do that for them.

I have used J River for years (I am currently using version 16).  I have never found Theater View "easy" to configure and I have always ended up, just using a folder structure for viewing movies, tv shows and photos (my music is tagged properly so no problems there).  For movies, I use Mediabrowser (a plugin for WMC 7) because it automatically tags my movies based on the folder name (no maintenance).  Between this and the problem I have being able to configure Gizmo to control my volume on my receiver when bit streaming audio on movies, I am back to Mediabrowser for browsing and Zoomplayer for being launched for movies.

[rick.ca]

A choice to use other software due to a bunch of other issues or preferences has nothing to do with the question of how easy it is to configure Theatre View. The simple fact you have the choice of using your existing file structure as one of many means to organizing your media is surely a good thing. It's a good example of what makes it easy to use. I understand not everyone would agree. For some, choice is not an easy thing, and therefore does not contribute to ease-of-use. But for anyone so inclined, MC is not a good choice—for a very long list of reasons.

I've already stated (if not here, in other recent topics) the configuration system itself is in need of changes to make it more user-friendly. What I've referred to here as being "elegant" is the fundamental design of Theatre View itself—that it is simple, easy to understand and very powerful. That results directly in the kind of ease-of-use that's really important, and accessible to anyone willing to give it a chance.

I've also stated the greatest single barrier the acceptance of MC for video is now the lack of an automated meta data system. Hopefully, that will be addressed in the not-too-distant future. Then, I expect we'll see you back for the vastly superior playback quality—even if the meta data system is so flexible and powerful it's no easier to configure than Theatre View.

[justsomeguy]

I have to agree the "flow" of theater is nice. But as Rick said the meta data is the biggest hangup. I keep going back and forth between MC and W7MC with the mediabrowser plugin. I don't always have the time to by hand make sure MC's database is populated correctly for my TV and movies which then makes MC's flow not so good. I do however always have them placed in properly named folder structure and make sure series all have an identifying SxxExx as part of the filename, which then with mediabrowser it is completely hands off from that point and I get perfect meta data. If/when MC does the same thing then a lot more people might start using it more.

[maxxsid]

Hi )p( - what screen resolution is your server running?

ipad2 connected to mc running on the server using splashtop remote.

[)p(]

Hi )p( - what screen resolution is your server running?

1920x1080 but I have the remote software that connects the ipad to the pc set to use the native res of the ipad ie 1024x768. That is what you see in the video.

[HTPC4ME]

Rick, i noticed on your deadwood, and 24 screenshots, it shows the covers but in background it shows those series wallpaers.. how do we accomplish this? i've love to be able to see wallpapersfor all my movies/tv shows. i've been using autometa, and every movie it tags it downloads backgrounds, and posters. Can i incorporate all those backgrounds/posters into my selections so they show up? all my backgrounds/posters are saved in same folder as the movie/tv file.
Thanks

[rick.ca]

it shows the covers but in background it shows those series wallpaers.. how do we accomplish this?

That's the Online media slideshow—the same as what you already have for music artists. At Options > Theater View > Appearance > Theme > Online media slideshow select TheTVDb. I'm not sure, but I think [Media Sub Type] has to be "TV Show" for an image search to occur.

[HTPC4ME]

ty Rick

[kensn]

I think it looks for the series name, I gave my star trek Movies the same series name "star Trek" and they will show metadata from the tv series when selected .

[rick.ca]

I think it looks for the series name, I gave my star trek Movies the same series name "star Trek" and they will show metadata from the tv series when selected.

Likely so. I rather liked this result, but it took me a while to figure out what was going on...

[Daydream]

Well, as this was initially split from another thread to discuss TheaterView, here's some other thoughts/questions:

- why not make TheaterView skins standalone, without shared dependencies?
- as it stands one can't really make a skin because it depends on two (!) shared 'base' files that gets overwritten with every new install. While base 2.xml settings can be moved into main.xml, any attempts I made to move below code from base.xml failed.

 

Code: [Select]

  <ROLLER>
    <Data InternalMargins="11,11,11,11" />
    <Item Bitmap="" />
    <Selection Bitmap="Roller\Selection.png" Columns="11,?-Flex,11" Rows="11,?-Flex,11" />
  </ROLLER>

  <ROLLER Class="Root">
    <Data InternalMargins="11,11,11,11" />
    <Item Bitmap="" />
    <Selection Bitmap="Roller\Selection.png" Columns="11,?-Flex,11" Rows="11,?-Flex,11" />
  </ROLLER>
In other words one can change the highlight for items inside any category but not the highlight for the main menu and rollers, because they are locked and getting overwritten with every update. When I say highlight I mean this





@Rick (and others)

Have you ever had a case when using expressions to define displaying fields (simple stuff, so seasons read as 'Season 1' not '1', episodes look [Season]x[Episode] - [Name] instead of the default and so on) to cause navigation problems when going back?

Case in hand:

Videos - TV Series - pick a series - pick a season - pick an ep. - Enter/watch. Using backspace to go all the way back to the main menu, everything is fine.
Videos - TV Series - pick a series - pick a season - pick an ep. - Enter/watch - Play - Esc (pause; where is my stop function btw?) -> the interface exists to the item being played (paused screen on the right) but any attempt to go back from there displays nothing (as in nothing under rollers), no episodes, no seasons until I get back to series. Then the series gets listed. So wherever I put an expression instead of the stock item nothing gets listed, when navigating back. Thoughts? Did I miss something?

[BartMan01]

How do you get the series info to display?  I can get episode specific info, and it does pick the background art based on the series, just can see how to get it to show the overall series info like it does with episodes or movies.

[rick.ca]

Have you ever had a case when using expressions to define displaying fields (simple stuff, so seasons read as 'Season 1' not '1', episodes look [Season]x[Episode] - [Name] instead of the default and so on) to cause navigation problems when going back?

No I don't recall seeing that behaviour. My remote has a stop button, but I did try escaping to Theatre View—that made no difference. I don't use the default views for series, so I wonder if there's something different about them.

[rick.ca]

How do you get the series info to display?

MC's main library consists only of records representing files in the file system. Without a file, there can be no record. So I use dummy files to represent things like series and movies I want a record of, but don't own. So, for example, the Deadwood series record shown in my screenshot is for the file D:\Video\Series\Deadwood\Deadwood.log. That file is also associated with the same series record in Personal Video Database, which is where the meta data comes from (automatically, via the PvdImport plugin).

Before anyone asks, "But what happens if you play a log file?," they're associated with an AHK script that handles that nicely according to the circumstances. In the case of a Series record, it advances to and displays (without playing) the first available episode.

I can understand how less obsessive users may wish for a more straightforward way to handle series information.

[Daydream]

Sauve qui peut! 

[rick.ca]

...which is okay, because real men don't run and hide from a little complexity.