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Author Topic: simple headless server - best method of remote control?  (Read 24400 times)

rjm

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simple headless server - best method of remote control?
« on: August 22, 2012, 11:07:56 pm »

I plan to get a new desktop and would like to redeploy my old desktop as a simple server on my home network.

I do not want a monitor or keyboard on the server. What is the best method of controlling the server from my main desktop system?

I have some experience with LogMeIn and TeamViewer but wonder if there is a better solution for local LAN applications.

Thanks in advance for tips.
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glynor

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Re: simple headless server - best method of remote control?
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2012, 12:02:43 am »

I just use TightVNC servers.

It's okay.  I think Windows Remote Desktop performs better an is less flaky, but it is also less widely available (and I have Macs and iPads).  I actually am just now trying out TeamViewer, but I don't know if I'm comfortable using their system for my LAN (I mainly want it for remote supporting my far-flung family members).

I have a VPN, and I run TightVNC inside my network (no port forwarding, VNC is terribly insecure and routing it through SSH is a pain in the butt).  I'm also learning (a LOT) about Power Shell, and the other remote administration capabilities of Windows (many of those management console snap-ins can easily remote control another machine, if it is set up properly first).

I'd set up VNC (or Remote Desktop if you are in an all-Windows environment, maybe), and learn about those other tools.  If you need to administer the system from outside your LAN, set up a VPN system for your laptop.  That's much easier and safer in the end than forwarding a bunch of ports.

Though... I would say this:

I do not want a monitor or keyboard on the server. What is the best method of controlling the server from my main desktop system?

Having a monitor and a keyboard on the server.  ;D :P

But seriously... No matter what you do, there are probably going to be times when you need to pull one out (or where this particular task would be so much easier if you could just have a little better desktop performance for clicking on fiddly checkboxes an scrolling through endless tree-views and lists).  Even if you don't keep it hooked up all the time, it would probably be a good idea to keep a cheap/tiny monitor and keyboard/mouse nearby "just in case".

Or, get a KVM.
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rjm

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Re: simple headless server - best method of remote control?
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2012, 12:24:06 am »

Thanks Glynor!

My situation is super simple. One Windows 7 desktop controlling a Windows XP server on a lan with no offsite access required.

Have never tried VNC or Remote Desktop so will do some research on them.

I was hoping there was a no-brainer client/server app that everyone used.

I have a KVM so I guess that will be my fall back.
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InflatableMouse

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Re: simple headless server - best method of remote control?
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2012, 12:27:32 am »

Remote Desktop from Windows itself?  :-\

It works better than anything else, its much faster too. Forward a port on your router and you can use it from the internet. Port forwarding allows you to forward something like 22 to 3389.

VNC just plainly sucks if you ask me. Input lag, slow screen updates. It's killing me when I have to use it.
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rjm

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Re: simple headless server - best method of remote control?
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2012, 12:58:53 am »

I'll be darned. First time I tried Remote Desktop and it works perfectly. Just what I wanted. Thanks.
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glynor

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Re: simple headless server - best method of remote control?
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2012, 01:20:39 am »

Remote Desktop from Windows itself?  :-\

It works better than anything else, its much faster too. Forward a port on your router and you can use it from the internet. Port forwarding allows you to forward something like 22 to 3389.

I would strongly urge you to not port-forward Windows Remote Desktop connections (or VNC either).  Windows does not SALT their passwords, and I just would not trust it at all to not have all sorts of buffer overflow problems.  VNC doesn't even try (because they know it is a bad idea, I think, and because you can tunnel them through SSH), and their passwords are limited to 8 significant characters and transmitted in the clear.

Like I said... Make a VPN.  If you have a decent router, you can probably get dd-wrt to run on it and use that (or something similar).  That lets you access everything on the network too - file shares, printers, etc.  It'll be slow, but it works.  And you can do other things that will perform well, like run a FTP server at home for easier/better performing remote file access, and not have to worry about obsessively patching the server every other Tuesday.  Fewer points of failure=better.

If you don't have a decent router, get one.  Get a crappy old PC off of eBay or something, stuff a couple network cards in it (buy Intel ones and save yourself a headache) and throw the free home license to Sophos UTM (formerly Astaro) or pfSense on it.  Use your existing router as a dumb switch (turn off all the DHCP stuff and don't use/plug-in the WAN port, just use the LAN ones), or buy a cheap one.

VNC just plainly sucks if you ask me. Input lag, slow screen updates. It's killing me when I have to use it.

VNC isn't great over WAN, particularly if the server's uplink is slow.  It can be very good if the server has good upstream bandwidth.  The problem is, most of us in North America have piss-poor upstream bandwidth.

I use VNC almost every day to access my machine at the office and it SCREAMS.  It doesn't feel native, but it is completely usable.  Of course, my office has a dual, symmetric 20gbps connection to the Internet.  My client-side upstream doesn't matter much (it is just sending easily-compressed "control messages" to the server), and I usually have decent downstream connectivity (except on hotel wifi where everything is miserable).  But the server machine in this case has essentially-unlimited upstream bandwidth, and this matters a lot (because it is essentially sending a big HD video stream to you).

Connecting to my machine at work with VNC using my iPad on 3G even works decently well.

Inside the LAN, VNC can perform pretty darn well, if you get the right server and configure it correctly (with a good mirror driver and whatnot).  TightVNC and UltraVNC are the two best for Windows.  They have different strengths.

Still, though... I think I agree with InflatableMouse here, especially in your situation.

I use Windows Remote Desktop to connect to a bunch of my VM Servers at the office, and it works equally well remotely and on-campus, performance-wise, and the clients are definitely a lot less twitchy.  No matter what I do, TightVNC seems to get periodically "stuck" and I have to manually refresh the client.  Using UltraVNC as the server instead was much less prone to this, but they don't handle dual-displays well, and almost every machine I have/use has dual displays.  Windows Remote Desktop is annoying in its own ways (it is annoying to manage lots of different computers without some of their higher-end tools, and their Mac client is much crappier than the Windows one.)  But, it is also easier to set up to run as a service (so it is running even at the login screen) and the system just "knows" a lot more about how Windows works, and can re-use components much more easily without having to "stream video" anywhere near as much.

So, I don't know.... If you are just going Windows-to-Windows, I'd probably look at Windows Remote Desktop first.  It is built-in, there is nothing to install and update separately and debug, and it works very, very well.  You're almost certainly going to want that "server" to run Windows 7 though.  Might even need to... I'm really not sure of the state of Remote Desktop support on XP.  And, Power Shell is Windows 7, and all the management console stuff will probably work better too.  And there are plenty of iPad apps if you need that.  They're just not as nice as the VNC ones, IMHO.

The killer VNC feature for me, though, is certainly the cross platform support.  I have one place to go for all of my remote machines, whether they're Linux VMs, a Windows box, or one of my Macs.  And I can use any of those platforms as clients too.  If you don't have that concern, I'd look at Remote Desktop.

But don't open those ports.
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glynor

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Re: simple headless server - best method of remote control?
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2012, 01:34:16 am »

I'll be darned. First time I tried Remote Desktop and it works perfectly. Just what I wanted. Thanks.

Hah!  See, you agreed with him before I even got to.  ;)

Glad it looks like it'll work for you.  It is pretty slick and capable.
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InflatableMouse

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Re: simple headless server - best method of remote control?
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2012, 03:03:31 am »

I'll be darned. First time I tried Remote Desktop and it works perfectly. Just what I wanted. Thanks.

Oke, that sounds sarcastic  :P.

I work with RDP exclusively at work for over 10 years now and obviously, at home too. The times the remote deskop service either crashed or was unresponsive can be counted on one hand, most of those crashes was with Windows 2000. The non-server versions of Windows can be patched to allow simultaneous logins so as not to interfere with the console login (say you have Theater View running but you want to login in the background and not interfere with the running session).

I would strongly urge you to not port-forward Windows Remote Desktop connections (or VNC either).  Windows does not SALT their passwords, and I just would not trust it at all to not have all sorts of buffer overflow problems.

Version 6 and onward use 128-bit encryption, same as SSH (RC4). RDP is just as vulnerable as any other part of Windows. Outside the corporate sector attacks rarely come in on a hacked port, virtually all attacks are made from the inside with backdoors, malware and whatnot. I think it's highly unlikely that someone would go to the trouble to hack a forwarded RDP port, its much more likely that someone gets some malware, a keylogger or a backdoor due to careless browsing or using keygens.

But I totally agree with this, VPN would be a much much better solution.
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rjm

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Re: simple headless server - best method of remote control?
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2012, 09:10:27 am »

Oke, that sounds sarcastic  :P.
No sarcasm at all. RDP is a feature I have ignored forever. I thought it was some kind of remote text command console.
Do you have a link handy explaining how to patch non-server Windows?
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InflatableMouse

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Re: simple headless server - best method of remote control?
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2012, 10:46:17 am »

I think what you're referring to is SSH, its text-based remote console.

Concurrent RDP Patcher
Another one

In case of the first one, don't check 'enable multiple logons per user', unless you know what it does and how it works. By default RDP connections will connect you to your previous session if you disconnected without logging off. You'll pick up where you left it. With that setting enabled, it will just create a new session regardless of previous disconnected sessions. It can be annoying, especially if there's a console session and 2 disconnected sessions, you won't be able to connect without clearing one first. For this reason I run my console session (running MC) on a dedicated user account and login via RDP with my own personal account. This way it will never connect to the console session and always reconnect to a disconnected session on my own user account. But when I want to connect to the console session, I can always pop up Task Manager, Users, right click the console session and choose 'Connect'.
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rjm

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Re: simple headless server - best method of remote control?
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2012, 11:15:20 am »

Much appreciated!
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glynor

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Re: simple headless server - best method of remote control?
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2012, 12:51:51 pm »

If you have an iPad, iTeleport (the best VNC client for iOS IMHO) just added RDC support literally this week!  Just saw that last night after I posted the stuff above.

That's awesome.  I'm actually now strongly considering switching over to that with my Windows boxes now...  My main issue was that I use my iPad a LOT to remote-in, and I didn't like many of the RDC clients, and I didn't want to have to use one app/method for some machines and another for others.

That is now, at least partially, solved.  Good deal!
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rjm

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Re: simple headless server - best method of remote control?
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2012, 04:37:29 pm »

I am quite happy with both LogMeIn and TeamViewer on my iPad for remote access of my Windows desktops. I think I like TeamViewer a little more these days because it offers free file transfers and LogMeIn does not.

I see iTeleport costs $20. LogMeIn and TeamViewer are free.

Please let us know your experience with the new iTeleport.

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MrC

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Re: simple headless server - best method of remote control?
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2012, 06:27:44 pm »

Glynor no likey Jump Desktop?
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PrinterPrinter

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Re: simple headless server - best method of remote control?
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2014, 01:13:34 pm »

Hello,
What's the latest on this subject?

I'm literally finishing building a fanless media PC (Streacom FC5 based) and installed win 7 x64 on it - I'd like to run it headless control it from an iphone/ipad.

Any ideas are welcome!

Thanks!
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Arindelle

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Re: simple headless server - best method of remote control?
« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2014, 02:29:26 pm »

Hello,
What's the latest on this subject?

I'm literally finishing building a fanless media PC (Streacom FC5 based) and installed win 7 x64 on it - I'd like to run it headless control it from an iphone/ipad.

Any ideas are welcome!

Thanks!
You can run it headless using JRemote (apple store) its really great. I'd recommend hooking up a portable or another pc as a client for admin and maintenace. I use Teamviewer as other suggested you could use Remote Desktop from windows pro but is not as good. Very pleased with teamviewer.

@PrinterPrinter did you see my edit on your other post?? that MB does not have the optical out you wanted!!!
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PrinterPrinter

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Re: simple headless server - best method of remote control?
« Reply #16 on: September 09, 2014, 02:36:49 pm »

Thanks Mate,
I did notice that post and got a mobo with a good toslink port! thanks!!
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Arindelle

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Re: simple headless server - best method of remote control?
« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2014, 02:40:06 pm »

Thanks Mate,
I did notice that post and got a mobo with a good toslink port! thanks!!
ok great!!.  Have fun with your new kit :)
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Garik

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Re: simple headless server - best method of remote control?
« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2021, 06:34:35 pm »

If you have programming skills, you may be interested in this

https://brodilla.com/heredes/about

Since this library allows you to establish a direct connection behind NAT and provides functions for easy implementation of mouse and keyboard simulations via SendInput on a remote PC, built-in functions for capturing and transferring screen screens, and also in PCM format.
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Antognini

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Re: simple headless server - best method of remote control?
« Reply #19 on: October 03, 2021, 01:36:13 am »

Umm ...

When  I clicked on that link (to Brodilla), I got a popup from Acronis Cyber Protect Home Office advising the "malicious website" was blocked and did I want to trust it? I said Block.
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jmorris644

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Re: simple headless server - best method of remote control?
« Reply #20 on: October 31, 2021, 09:14:23 am »

I currently have a headless server running on a Mac Mini. I use NoMachine from my windows PC to access it. It works but not the best as it seems as if MC does not really like me using my fingers for navigation. The scroll bars are really tiny and scrolling is not natural. I have to use 2 fingers as if I am zooning in order to scroll.

I did read somewhere that there is an option to the Standard view to enlarge the scroll bars, but I have been unable to find it.
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AGAWA

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Re: simple headless server - best method of remote control?
« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2021, 01:34:42 pm »

Headless Mac Mini 2014 running JRiver (and Apple Music). Mac Mini via HDMI to LG TV (can use it if need be). In addition wireless keyboard and mouse.
But for control of Mac Mini I use Macbook screen sharing. Simple to configure  and works. JRiver uses 4 channels of DAC, Apple Music two channels. Enjoy.
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