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Author Topic: New user, A few comments and questions for the MC gurus.  (Read 4814 times)

Arcturus

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New user, A few comments and questions for the MC gurus.
« on: November 27, 2012, 06:51:27 pm »

Installed the trial last week, Will definitely be buying it. Without a doubt it has the best file/database system I ever seen implemented. Despite my efforts on purpose to mess things up, Like deleting,renaming and replacing files/folder it rarely skips a beat.

The video quality and feature set is great. Its fun to see a feature set I only use to see in professional DAE apps in a media player like Wasapi AISO up-sampling so on.

I have only 2 questions as these are not covered in the Manual/Wiki nor do they seem to be covered currently in the forum.

1. In my case I have a 2 screen setup. I have a 27 inch desktop monitor that I use to browse and work and I have a 70 LED that I use to display video,visuals and game on.  I run MC in its standard mode on my desktop because its easier to browse large collections with mouse/keyboard and get the files cued up. Thing is when I double click a file to start playing it opens up on my desktop screen and so I have to double click it again to get out of full screen and then Detach the display which I have set on the second display, Then I have to double click that window to maximize it. Once that's done it remembers this but only for the session. So the question, Is there a way for it to remember this next time I start JRiver. It's not the end of the world if I have to do that each time I start J.river but if possible I would love that. One other thing on this topic, When the display is detached you have no usable OSD on the second display. Anything like scroll bar volume ect has to be done from the first display so if that can be corrected then it would be perfect.

2. A friend of mine who is trying out JRiver with me has a issue with his LCD its a bit slow and his audio is not going out over the HDMI, Instead it goes straight to his amp so this causes the video to slightly lag from the audio by about 30-40ms. The AV sync settings are not covered in the Manual with any details and also there are 2 of them. One of them has 60,120,240 hertz next to it. His is a 120 hertz.  So in short this looks kind of nebular and its hard to eye what is the best ms. Is it as easy as putting 120 in the field or will he have to eye it and keep trying different MS settings. 

One last thing and this is more an observation of maybe a bug. When in the Cover View if you move the mouse to the top you unhide the play controls same for when you move the mouse to the left you get the tree but this only seem to work correctly the first time. After that its like a crap shoot if it will or will not unhide the play controls and tree. Running the latest release of MC 18. Again not a show stopper as I will continue to use Standard View for now but I like that Cover View hides the taskbar and other things and just looks slick.

Thanks in advance for any help.

And thanks to the developers for making the most badass 23mb piece of code I ever had the pleasure of running :)

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JimH

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Re: New user, A few comments and questions for the MC gurus.
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2012, 06:57:35 pm »

Welcome to the forum.  Others may be better able to help, but here's a start.

1.  Under Tools/Options/General/Behavior, you may be able to find a better setting for what you want to do.

2.  Try turning "Videoclock" on under MC's video settings.

And thanks for the kind words.
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Matt

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Re: New user, A few comments and questions for the MC gurus.
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2012, 06:59:31 pm »

For #1, you might try Theater View and a remote.  This is our recommended approach.

If you want to use Standard View instead, configure Display View to always use a particular monitor in Options > Tree & View > Full Screen.  I'd recommend Display View over a detached display (for the OSD, etc.).
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Arcturus

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Re: New user, A few comments and questions for the MC gurus.
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2012, 07:13:21 pm »

Here is the thing, With standard view open on monitor 1 with display detached and maximized on monitor 2 it allows me to change playing tracks cue up more video files or change playback settings without having to stop whats playing on monitor 2.  

This is great say during a party for example. You have your main screen with visuals and yet people can cue up files without having to exit out of the vis to get to the playlist. Or you're watching a movie and want to read up on it on the screen right next to you while the movie plays on the big screen.  I also own AEON,GForce and Whitecap so when I am not watching movies I usually have music playing with one of those 3 running on the other screen.

I know its a very special use case but the app already seems 9.9/10'ths of the way there as it does do this already. Its only that it forgets this when you close the application.

Excuse my multi monitor nerdness :)

As it is JRiver is already way better for multi monitor support then anything else. Most of the other software I have tried lock the mouse onto the theater view and wont even allow you to do anything else on the other screen, 7MC for example which is why I stopped using it.

Did not mean this to be a feature request I was hoping there was already a way with all the ways to create views and such but its easy to get lost in those settings.

Thanks for your reply.



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Grenache

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Re: New user, A few comments and questions for the MC gurus.
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2012, 07:46:14 pm »

I know its a very special use case

Not necessarily. At least I'm using MC in much the same way, except that I have two other monitors plus a TV where I'm using MC, a part from my "main" monitor. Especially when I'm at my desk (with two monitors) I prefer not to have MC running in Theater View or full screen Display View for some of the same reasons as you, but also because the display is then simply too big for the viewing distance. Instead I'm constantly struggling with opening, detaching and resizing the display.

Anyway as it is JRiver is already better for multi monitor support then anything else.

I agree. Just wish it would be even better. ;D  It would be really nice if I could get Theater View (or Display View or a detached display) to always use a particular monitor by choosing a zone.
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Arcturus

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Re: New user, A few comments and questions for the MC gurus.
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2012, 08:18:36 pm »

Good then I am not alone :)
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Arcturus

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Re: New user, A few comments and questions for the MC gurus.
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2012, 11:24:24 pm »

Just noticed as of the last update it now remembers to maximize the detached display if that's how it was when the program was closed so 1 step closer.

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glynor

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Re: New user, A few comments and questions for the MC gurus.
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2012, 08:13:48 am »

Check the forums for my posts on multi-monitor setups.  In particular, search for "detached display" and prepare to be amazed.

MC has the most amazing multi-monitor support of any multimedia application I've ever seen.  I've used it to run shows in multiple rooms on multiple projectors/HDTVs from one central computer (stuffed with video cards) before, and for this crazy thing.
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glynor

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Re: New user, A few comments and questions for the MC gurus.
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2012, 08:16:01 am »

I agree. Just wish it would be even better. ;D  It would be really nice if I could get Theater View (or Display View or a detached display) to always use a particular monitor by choosing a zone.

It does, if you don't close the Detached Display.

Make a zone for them, detach them and maximize them, and NEVER CLOSE THEM.  If you need to exit, just exit the main UI in Standard View, or reattach them with the little re-attach link thing (or use the MCC command to reattach them).

Next time you detach the display, it'll go right back to where it was last, and remember fullscreen/not status, on a per-zone basis.
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Grenache

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Re: New user, A few comments and questions for the MC gurus.
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2012, 08:31:41 am »

Check the forums for my posts on multi-monitor setups.  In particular, search for "detached display" and prepare to be amazed.

I've read them - several times - because I have several monitors and I'm using zones a lot (and because you seem pretty excited about it ;D). It's working as described, but I'd prefer to have Theater View working the same way.

With your solution you don't have access to browsing your videos or music collection (if I set it up correctly). You only see Display View and have to go to another screen (or a phone/tablet with Gizmo) to browse your library.

If that's not the case, I'm really interested in hearing more about it, because it's exactly what I need!

In a perfect World I'd like to have MC ready on my two other monitors, when I turn them on, and on the TV in the living room which is connected to my computer in my home office via Wireless HDMI.

For now, I have to go to my computer and direct MC to the specific monitor and then press Ctrl+4 to get it into Theater View. If just Theater View could exist in several instances like Display View and "stay" on the different monitors and TV, it would be killer.
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glynor

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Re: New user, A few comments and questions for the MC gurus.
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2012, 10:10:59 am »

For now, I have to go to my computer and direct MC to the specific monitor and then press Ctrl+4 to get it into Theater View. If just Theater View could exist in several instances like Display View and "stay" on the different monitors and TV, it would be killer.

Ahh, yes.  I didn't realize you wanted multiple "copies" of Theater View.

Unfortunately, no.  You can't, and I wouldn't hold my breath.  The problem is fairly fundamental.  Theater View is a full-screen 3D application, just like your average Call of Duty style PC game.  I'm not sure, but I think it is written in Direct3D (though with all the fancy custom stuff they've been doing lately, who knows, it might even be OpenGL).

In any case, it is a full-screen 3D application.

This is resource intensive and limited to a single monitor, or an array of monitors defined by the driver (Eyefinity-style).  There is no way to "mirror" this onto multiple monitors, especially with multiple independent instances.  That would require graphics cards with power that just doesn't exist in the consumer PC space (certainly not under Windows).  It would be just like trying to run two or three "copies" of Call of Duty on separate monitors with separate controllers so that different people could play the game simultaneously all from one PC.

That isn't going to happen.  Certainly not any time soon.

I would like it if you could tell Theater View to default to a particular monitor, independent of Full Screen View.  Right now, Theater View follows the settings set at Options > Tree & View > Full Screen > Monitor.  This means that Theater View always shows on whatever monitor is set there (by default, wherever Standard View is running, but you can set it explicitly).  However, this means that Full Screen View will also be on that same monitor.  The only way to have one screen act as the "controller" (in Theater View) and another display act as the "player" (where video plays) is via Detached Displays, and you have to pick a single monitor for Theater View, and just abandon the regular Full Screen View with its mouseover GUI and whatnot.

In your situation, you'd be much better served by building/buying a few small PCs and installing them directly on whatever displays where want to run Theater View.  Connect them to the Server via Client Mode, and you have a completely independent setup, that can do whatever it wants, and will work quite well.  Sorry, I know your goal was probably to avoid having multiple PCs, but this provides other benefits as well... Like a web browser on the TV, which is quite handy from time to time, and it requires far less intense graphics resources on each independent machine.

Something Mac Mini-class would work fine.  I know many people have had success with the ASRock Vision 3D series systems, and I have a couple Mac Minis that run MC perfectly under both Parallels Desktop 8 and under "real Windows" (Bootcamp).  FYI:  If you happen to be a Mac person, the new version of Parallels Desktop works even better with MC and Theater View because it has a new mode where it will auto-detect applications (like PowerPoint and MC) that go "fullscreen" and it will automatically switch from Coherence Mode (the normal "run Windows apps from within OSX as though they were Mac apps" mode) to Full Screen mode.  That makes using MC in Coherence Mode way better, as you don't see the toolbar at the top and dock at the bottom when you go fullscreen, without switching to "true" Fullscreen mode manually first.
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glynor

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Re: New user, A few comments and questions for the MC gurus.
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2012, 10:18:21 am »

Alternatively...

You mentioned it, but using a tablet or mobile device as the controller is also an option.

It is quite easy to script MC to automatically launch, and open up a variety of different Zones' Detached Displays (sent fullscreen to their respective monitors).  So, you do that, and you have a monitor for each zone that are essentially "always running".  Make sure your Zone names have nice, friendly names like "Living Room TV", "Den", and "Kitchen".

Then, get a few iPod Touches, buy JRemote.  Tell the users to use JRemote as their controller, and show them how to pick which zone they want to play to.  Done.

JRemote is absolutely awesome, and the UI is basically almost as slick as Theater View.

You could probably do the same thing with Android devices and Gizmo, but I haven't used it personally in quite a while.  Plus, there aren't many (or any) good, small, cheap iPod Touch sized Android devices that are supported and run stock Android.  You could probably do it with rooting, old phones, and cyanogenmod builds, but that seems like a pain in the old tookas.
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Grenache

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Re: New user, A few comments and questions for the MC gurus.
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2012, 10:42:22 am »

Ahh, yes.  I didn't realize you wanted multiple "copies" of Theater View.

Yeah, I probably forgot a smiley when I wrote "If just Theater View could exist in several instances like Display View and "stay" on the different monitors and TV, it would be killer." I know this is pushing it a bit. But it would still be killer. :)

I would like it if you could tell Theater View to default to a particular monitor, independent of Full Screen View.

+1 for that. And in the same vein: what I really would like - and that should be possible in our lifetime - would be, if opening Theater View could be dependent on zones. For now, you can set it to always open on "Monitor X" or "Nearest Monitor", but if I could automatically move Theater View to one of my other Monitors or the TV by just changing the zone it would be almost as good as having several "copies" of Theater View running at the same time.

In your situation, you'd be much better served by building/buying a few small PCs

I know, but that's not an option. Our home is relatively minimalistic (I'm from Denmark :)), so I'm not going to be popular if I'm scattering self-build computers and cables all over the place. That's one of the reasons why I've connected the TV to the main computer via Wireless HDMI and it's working really well, even with heavy HD-movies.
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Grenache

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Re: New user, A few comments and questions for the MC gurus.
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2012, 11:51:49 am »

You mentioned it, but using a tablet or mobile device as the controller is also an option.

This, I think, is the way to go. I'm really looking forward to running MC on a Windows 8 tablet when we'll see some real none-RT devices.

Thanks for the recommendations, but I'm not a Mac guy, and Android just doesn't do it for me.

It is quite easy to script MC to automatically launch, and open up a variety of different Zones' Detached Displays (sent fullscreen to their respective monitors).

I know about the scripting stuff, but it's one of the corners of MC I haven't had the time (or guts) to look into (I'm not a coder). I've been searching a bit in the forum, but could you direct me to a thread or some other information where I can find an easy introduction?

So, you do that, and you have a monitor for each zone that are essentially "always running".  Make sure your Zone names have nice, friendly names like "Living Room TV", "Den", and "Kitchen".

This is exactly what I want - within the boundaries of the current MC capabilities. I already have the "friendly named" zones set up, so I just need to automate it with a little (hopefully) scripting.
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glynor

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Grenache

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Re: New user, A few comments and questions for the MC gurus.
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2012, 12:30:58 pm »

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=73060.msg497761#msg497761

Great. Thanks, Glynor. I'll have a look at it. Fortunately, it doesn't seem to be too complicated. :)
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glynor

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Re: New user, A few comments and questions for the MC gurus.
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2012, 02:13:03 pm »

Great. Thanks, Glynor. I'll have a look at it. Fortunately, it doesn't seem to be too complicated. :)

Nope.  Not hard at all.

Let me know if you need specific help.  I've done a ton of these kinds of setups.
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Arcturus

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Re: New user, A few comments and questions for the MC gurus.
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2012, 03:39:49 am »

@glynor

Hey thanks a lot this is exactly the response I was hoping for.
I will dig into your posts and see if I can figure this out.

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glynor

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Re: New user, A few comments and questions for the MC gurus.
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2012, 08:20:11 am »

So, just briefly, I got a PM from Arcturus that he was trying to re-use my script at the link above, but was having an issue.  His issue is probably a common one for new users, so I figured I'd explain here instead of via PM.  Onwards and upwards!

Here's the script example Arcturus sent me:

Code: [Select]
<package>
<job id="vbs">
<script language="VBScript">

'Create our handy dandy Shell object
set WshShell = WScript.CreateObject("WScript.Shell")

'SCRIPT ACTUALLY STARTS DOING STUFF HERE

'Start MC
WshShell.Run "Media Center 18.exe"

'Pause for a bit
WScript.Sleep 1000

'Detach display on Zone 1
WshShell.Run "Media Center 18.exe /MCC 10037, 1"
</script>
</job>
</package>

That's a nearly identical copy of my original script, except that he modified mine (which was written for MC17) to replace all of the instances of MC17.exe with "Media Center 18.exe".  This is entirely reasonable, probably figuring I just used some kind of shorthand for the real Media Center executable in the original script, but that's the problem.  Like I said, probably a common mistake.

As explained in the Media Center Command Line wiki page:

Quote
Media Center and Media Jukebox can be controlled by command line parameters sent using a command launcher. The launcher is installed during installation of main application. The command launcher is version-specific, and installed in the standard system directory. The name of the command launcher for Media Center follows the (case-insensitive) form:

MC<MC version>.exe

(Emphasis mine.)

So, the problem is that Media Center's command line options (well, most of them, anyway) do not use or work with the "real" Media Center ##.exe executable in the installation directory.  Instead, they use a special launcher application that the installer places in your System directory (so that it is always available in the system path without specifying a full directory path).  This launcher helper, for Media Center version 18 is called "mc18.exe".

So, the problem with your script is that you changed all of my mc17.exe references to "Media Center 18.exe" references, when you want to change them to "mc18.exe" instead.

This should fix you right up:

Code: [Select]
<package>
<job id="vbs">
<script language="VBScript">

'Create our handy dandy Shell object
set WshShell = WScript.CreateObject("WScript.Shell")

'SCRIPT ACTUALLY STARTS DOING STUFF HERE

'Start MC
WshShell.Run "mc18.exe"

'Pause for a bit
WScript.Sleep 1000

'Detach display on Zone 1
WshShell.Run "mc18.exe /MCC 10037, 1:0"
</script>
</job>
</package>

EDIT:  I found one other little bug in your version of my script.  My copy above is fixed, but I'll explain in a second post.
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glynor

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Re: New user, A few comments and questions for the MC gurus.
« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2012, 08:40:15 am »

The other problem was with this line:

Code: [Select]
WshShell.Run "Media Center 18.exe /MCC 10037, 1"
Even ignoring the "mc18.exe" versus "Media Center 18.exe" thing, there is another potential issue with that.  It may not impact your particular usage, Arcturus, but since I'm posting this, I figured I'd help everyone.  If you only have one zone, then you can omit the zone specifier for this command.  But if you want to direct the command to a particular zone, then you need to add a zone specifier to it.

The way you specify zones with the MCC commands is by adding a : to the end and then list the zone index.  There are other crazy bitwise ways to do it by ORing against the zone specifier, but that's a dumb (hard, old) way to do it (though we probably still need to do it that way with commands sent via Windows Message, unfortunately, I need to check later).  Now, you can just do this, for any MCC command that impacts "playback" or other zone-specific operations:

Here's the "normal" command: MCC 10037, 1

(Details: In this, the "MCC 10037" part is the "detach display" command itself (MCC_DETACH_DISPLAY), and the ", 1" part is an argument to that that tells it what mode to use when detaching.  If you send -1, it toggles back and forth.  If you send 1, it detaches regardless of the current state.)

Zone specific version: MCC 10037, 1:0

In this, it is the part after the colon that specifies the zone.  This is a zero-based index, which just means that it counts starting from 0 instead of 1 like normal humans.  So, Zone 1 = 0, Zone 2 = 1, Zone 3 = 2, and so on and so forth.

With that, you can have it detach on any of your zones.  If you wanted to open MC, and then detach the displays for zones 1-4, you'd use this script:

Code: [Select]
<package>
<job id="vbs">
<script language="VBScript">

'Create our handy dandy Shell object
set WshShell = WScript.CreateObject("WScript.Shell")

'SCRIPT ACTUALLY STARTS DOING STUFF HERE

'Start MC
WshShell.Run "mc18.exe"

'Pause for a bit
WScript.Sleep 1000

'Detach display on Zone 1
WshShell.Run "mc18.exe /MCC 10037, 1:0"

'Detach display on Zone 2
WshShell.Run "mc18.exe /MCC 10037, 1:1"

'Detach display on Zone 3
WshShell.Run "mc18.exe /MCC 10037, 1:2"

'Detach display on Zone 4
WshShell.Run "mc18.exe /MCC 10037, 1:3"
</script>
</job>
</package>

(Of course, it would be better in this kinds of instances to use a for/next loop or something, instead of just copying the line over and over, but this will work in a pinch if you aren't a coding expert and you don't have a ton of zones to handle.)

In my opinion, if you are writing a script like this, even if you DO only have one zone to deal with, you might as well add the Zone Identifier to the command anyway.  That way, in the future if you add additional zones, you won't have to go in and muck with your script.  The only time I omit the Zone Identifier on zone-impacting commands (mostly the playback ones), is when I'm really sure I want the command to be "universally applied" to whatever zone happens to be active at the time (which is how it works when you omit the zone specifier).

Hope this makes everything more clear for everyone!
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Arcturus

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Re: New user, A few comments and questions for the MC gurus.
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2012, 04:50:26 pm »

Thanks a bunch for all the info, I finally got it working to my tastes.

I used this since I only had 1 zone.

Code: [Select]
<package>
<job id="vbs">
<script language="VBScript">

'Create our handy dandy Shell object
set WshShell = WScript.CreateObject("WScript.Shell")

'SCRIPT ACTUALLY STARTS DOING STUFF HERE

'Start MC
WshShell.Run "mc18.exe"

'Pause for a bit
WScript.Sleep 1000

'Detach display on Zone 1
WshShell.Run "mc18.exe /MCC 10037, 1"
</script>
</job>
</package>

I did have to modify a few behavior parameters though for this to work for me.
On Jump on Play for both audio and video I had to set to Playing Now.

I also had to change 1 start up option to Play current playlist.
If I try to change any of those 3 it wont work. The only problem with Jump on Play set to Playing now is that it does jump to the playing now window. So if I am on playlist and double click a track instead just playing it goes to the playing now window obviously. And if I try to set it back to none then it wont auto detach the display. It's only a annoyance for music. for video it is fine as it is.  This only is an issue if I exit the program while it plays audio files if I exit on video files it is fine.

This will have to do until they add a "Auto Detach Display On Current Active Zone" button :)
unless you have anything additional I could change to make it better.

Cheer's.  






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