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Author Topic: A more Macish look?  (Read 7078 times)

MtnBeachBum

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A more Macish look?
« on: February 09, 2013, 02:36:17 pm »

I know its still a work in progress and its something you are probably going to get to but I hope the finished version will look more "Macish". The close button, etc. on the left with the three colored dots, and the file, edit, view, player, etc. in the Mac topbar like every other Mac app. If it stays the same as the windows version that will drive me up the wall going to the wrong place every time.
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paul.raulerson

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A more Macish look?
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2013, 10:35:59 pm »

Uh- come to think of it, that sure does look like a Windows window up there - menu and all! I'm not even sure how you got a menu attached to the window, but on a Mac, it really doesn't belong there. :)

-Paul
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erviv

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A more Macish look?
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2013, 05:18:16 am »

For my two cents, it is the output of the software that is more important in the early phases. I think the layout of the tool bars is secondary.  Yes it would be more intuitive in a 'Mac" format, but as a trade-off, I am certain we can adapt.
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JohnT

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A more Macish look?
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2013, 10:08:32 am »

The early releases will probably look pretty much like the screenshot above, except for having Video and TV and some other features removed.  At a later date we'll work on making it more Mac like, such as the menu location and the colored dots in the upper left, etc.
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kiwi

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A more Macish look?
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2013, 12:08:10 pm »

For my two cents, it is the output of the software that is more important in the early phases. I think the layout of the tool bars is secondary.  Yes it would be more intuitive in a 'Mac" format, but as a trade-off, I am certain we can adapt.

I couldn't agree more... functionality is important first... and then  looks later. 
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MtnBeachBum

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A more Macish look?
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2013, 02:21:39 pm »

Ok, thats awesome. Glad to hear it will eventually look right. Good news indeed.
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paul.raulerson

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A more Macish look?
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2013, 06:48:10 am »

Honestly? Think of the complaints you would hear were it reversed- i.e. porting from Mac to Windows. It won't bother people who are familiar with the Windows app, but it will make a bad impression on the vast majority of Mac users.

As eager as I am to see this, I would personally rather see you delay it a little, rather than risk making a bad impression. I want this to succeed big time. :)

A lot of the Mac press will see this, and the ones with Winders allergies might blow it off or pan it because of such small things like that. It is not a case of making it "Mac Like" so much as not making it act different on the basic things, like not using Windows Menus and icons.

Just my $0.02.
Paul


The early releases will probably look pretty much like the screenshot above, except for having Video and TV and some other features removed.  At a later date we'll work on making it more Mac like, such as the menu location and the colored dots in the upper left, etc.
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JimH

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A more Macish look?
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2013, 07:05:32 am »

We've said several times that the First Look versions will be rough (unfinished).

But they will play music and they will sound good.

It may be several more months before the program is polished and useable on a daily basis.
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glynor

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A more Macish look?
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2013, 12:36:14 pm »

We've said several times that the First Look versions will be rough (unfinished).

Right.

This is an alpha, essentially.  A preview of what's to come.

I think tech press understands that, first of all, when you make it clear.  Plus, that's frankly the way JRiver does most of their development.  They're very "in the open" with builds (just look at the Windows forum - there's a new build basically once-per-week).
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paul.raulerson

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A more Macish look?
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2013, 12:57:15 pm »

> Alpha release

Well, yes, it is. But I think you greatly underestimate how senstive we MacTribesmen can be in some cases. Remember, the Mac, MacOS, iPhones, etc. are all built with stunning attention to detail. Sometimes things don't work right, but they always *look good*. ;)

I think the UI in MC will make a huge splash in the Mac World, but leaving very obvious Windows things in will be more of an issue than others might expect. Especially as it escapes outside the "audiophile" world and into the general population. After all, this development cycle probably cost six figures, and why risk any bad press over something as minor as icons and menu bars?

-Paul
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JimH

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A more Macish look?
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2013, 01:25:06 pm »

Sometimes things don't work right, but they always *look good*.
Right.
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glynor

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Re: A more Macish look?
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2013, 02:19:30 pm »

> Alpha release

Well, yes, it is. But I think you greatly underestimate how senstive we MacTribesmen can be in some cases.

I've been using Apple machines since before I could walk (okay, this is an exaggeration, the first Apple I used regularly was a IIGS, though I used plenty Apple II computers at school), and I'm typing this on a Mac Pro, that is sitting next to a G5 quad, on-top-of-which is my Macbook Pro.  In fact, I believe I said as much in some of the early discussions before they'd committed to this.  It absolutely matters.  A Windows UI on a Mac port really isn't much of a Mac Port (why not just use Parallels then).

We aren't there yet, though, and I think that's okay.
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glynor

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Re: A more Macish look?
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2013, 02:21:06 pm »

Right.

Well, except Calendar on Mountain Lion.

And Contacts.

But mostly Calendar.  Seriously?  With the ripped paper?
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asdf1234

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Re: A more Macish look?
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2013, 01:16:34 pm »

I'm totally with you on Calendar.  I have no idea what Apple was thinking when they did that.  And I'm not a big fan of Facetime's interface either.

I also agree with the others that having a Mac look before the official Alpha or Beta status disappears could be important.  I'd hate to see the software panned for not having a Mac interface by reviewers who don't realize that it's a work in progress.
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Novatlan

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Re: A more Macish look?
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2013, 01:35:40 am »

This is awesome news, I immediately bought a license.
Just wanted to chime in on the "mac look" debate. As much as I hate to admit it, but for most mac users, including me, having the GUI conform to OSX standards is extremely important. From browsing the forum and trying out MC on Windows I am familiar with the development model and will not mind MC looking "un-macish" in the first few months. But most mac users will mind, simply because what they see is "one more cheap mac port that doesn't even bother to have the traffic lights on the correct side". This is very unfair towards the developers, but it is what might happen.
So add me to the group saying that you should really "macify" the interface before leaving alpha status. No windows GUI in the beta. Betas should be feature-complete and for most mac users the interface is extemely important. Windows or Linux users usually don't care how something looks as long as it works :)
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JHR

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Re: A more Macish look?
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2013, 11:15:03 am »

I'm on the other side of this "debate". I use 3 Macs and many iOS devices, among other computers.

I couldn't care less if there are some UX anomalies brought over from the port / re-write. I also couldn't care less what reviewers might think who are too dumb to understand alpha or beta code, or to understand that audio quality is going to be job #1.

The most important thing for me in the early drivers is the audio quality and overall ease of use I've come to expect from working with JRiver on Windows. I want it to deal with the Mac midi app and input bitrates automatically, and do the right thing with DAC output (like Decibel does).

I have no doubt that the team will eventually put the buttons and menus in the right place.

FWIW, as a Home Theater Computer application, the nicest Mac app I've seen to date is the totally "non-standard" XBMC. If the current version didn't sound so terrible, it would be even more widely used.

But at least I can use it from across the room without an iPad or lowering my screen reslution :) Apple has not really designed this experience for the Mac yet IMO (well, outside of Apple TV, but that's not Mac-based :))

Maybe it's time for them to "think different" again :) 

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kiwi

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Re: A more Macish look?
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2013, 04:11:14 pm »

Apple did have some software, Front Row

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Front_Row_(software)

But it got discontinued.  Guessing that not enough people used it... and or they figured that people would just get Apple TVs.
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JHR

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Re: A more Macish look?
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2013, 12:22:07 pm »

Interesting on Front Row. I guess with iTunes they decided people didn't need it? Weird they would get rid of it. Maybe they expect you to do everything via your new iWatch :)   

Obviously any HTC UI isn't going to be "Mac-ish"--even one from Apple! 

So if JRiver's "Theater View" comes along over the next year, that would be perfect for me! :) Great sound, video, and a great HTC UI all in one package.

But great audio first is a great first step :) 
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kiwi

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Re: A more Macish look?
« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2013, 08:48:35 am »

A minor UI nit, while vertical scrolling is correct (albeit a little sensitive), horizontal scrolling seems to be reversed.  Not a big deal, just figured it should be on the list somewhere.
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sgallaghe

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Re: A more Macish look?
« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2013, 05:35:25 pm »

A minor UI nit, while vertical scrolling is correct (albeit a little sensitive), horizontal scrolling seems to be reversed.  Not a big deal, just figured it should be on the list somewhere.

Thanks for the confirmation of what I'm experiencing too. I thought it was just me. ;-)

Apple chose to change the "natural" vertical scroll direction in Lion to make it like a touch interface. They're doing this all over the place, making the OSX interface on desktops and laptops more like that of iOS, as used on iPhones and iPads.

I'm on an iMac desktop. If I wanted an iPad I'd get one. The system should be smart enough to know what maching I'm using.

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kiwi

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Re: A more Macish look?
« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2013, 06:30:57 pm »

Thanks for the confirmation of what I'm experiencing too. I thought it was just me. ;-)

Apple chose to change the "natural" vertical scroll direction in Lion to make it like a touch interface. They're doing this all over the place, making the OSX interface on desktops and laptops more like that of iOS, as used on iPhones and iPads.

I'm on an iMac desktop. If I wanted an iPad I'd get one. The system should be smart enough to know what maching I'm using.



I actually really like these scroll directions when using a trackpad, but just wish they had options to swap them JUST for mice. 
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glynor

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Re: A more Macish look?
« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2013, 09:24:52 pm »

I actually really like these scroll directions when using a trackpad, but just wish they had options to swap them JUST for mice. 

http://pilotmoon.com/scrollreverser/
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sgallaghe

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Re: A more Macish look?
« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2013, 09:57:12 pm »

http://pilotmoon.com/scrollreverser/

Cool, but MC Mac is the only program I use that doesn't do horizontal scrolling properly. No reason for the tail to wag the dog.

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glynor

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Re: A more Macish look?
« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2013, 10:01:05 pm »

Cool, but MC Mac is the only program I use that doesn't do horizontal scrolling properly. No reason for the tail to wag the dog.

Right.  I wasn't addressing that.

It was only fairly recently that scrolling worked at all.  Two weeks ago, the wrong part of the UI would scroll entirely (the panes when you had files selected, stuff like that).
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kiwi

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Re: A more Macish look?
« Reply #24 on: March 05, 2013, 10:46:44 pm »

Right.  I wasn't addressing that.

It was only fairly recently that scrolling worked at all.  Two weeks ago, the wrong part of the UI would scroll entirely (the panes when you had files selected, stuff like that).

Thanks for that, I'm psyched to have something that will reverse my mouse, but leave my trackpad as is...
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LeNozzeDiFigaro

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Re: A more Macish look?
« Reply #25 on: March 08, 2013, 05:07:34 am »

As much as I hate to admit it, but for most mac users, including me, having the GUI conform to OSX standards is extremely important. (...)
So add me to the group saying that you should really "macify" the interface before leaving alpha status. No windows GUI in the beta. Betas should be feature-complete and for most mac users the interface is extemely important. Windows or Linux users usually don't care how something looks as long as it works :)

I'm with Novatlan here. And it's not just about how things look. The looks are important because of the functionality: a mac program is supposed to be used intuitively. That means that 'things' (even when you don't know exactly wht things they are) are in the same place as when you're used to find them, and that they react in the way you're used to. So it is about the looks, but also about being able to select all files in a screen by tapping command-A.

On the other hand, the JRiver announcement of priorities is ok for me: first stability, then functionality, then Mac-looks. As long as the third step is not regarded as an extra or a luxury. Novation is right in that it should be part of the alpha process.
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paul.raulerson

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Re: A more Macish look?
« Reply #26 on: March 08, 2013, 09:37:27 pm »

(grin) It's a learning thing for people coming from a Windows mindset. Consistency is not a Windows feature.

Seriously, they need time to learn what is important in a Mac/iOS world.

-Paul


I'm with Novatlan here. And it's not just about how things look. The looks are important because of the functionality: a mac program is supposed to be used intuitively. That means that 'things' (even when you don't know exactly wht things they are) are in the same place as when you're used to find them, and that they react in the way you're used to. So it is about the looks, but also about being able to select all files in a screen by tapping command-A.

On the other hand, the JRiver announcement of priorities is ok for me: first stability, then functionality, then Mac-looks. As long as the third step is not regarded as an extra or a luxury. Novation is right in that it should be part of the alpha process.
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pcstockton

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Re: A more Macish look?
« Reply #27 on: March 09, 2013, 01:54:39 am »

(grin) It's a learning thing for people coming from a Windows mindset. Consistency is not a Windows feature.

Seriously, they need time to learn what is important in a Mac/iOS world.

-Paul


::)
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