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Author Topic: Full Volume Crash  (Read 2030 times)

Kukulcan

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Full Volume Crash
« on: May 07, 2013, 07:27:15 am »

Hi guys,

I've started using JRiver for a couple of months, For me this software is quantum leap forward, but...I experienced a so dangerous crash/malfunction, that I'm thinking to abandon JRiver..

For 2 times it happened that the software started outputting a full volume pink noise. Fortunately I still use cheap speakers, but I'm going to buy some serious stuff (PMC Twenty and Hypex amplifiers), all run by HTPC without preamplifier. So I'm really scared by this unaccaptable behaviour.

I have volume protection engaged. It happens only when I click on a new song (ALAC, FLAC). It's scaring, and I just pushed to stop button without thinking to do other checks. So actually the program didn't really crash, after stopping the playback (as told, ultra-loud pink noise) it works as usual without the need to be restarted.

The audio card is a Xonar Essence ST + H6, ASIO mode and original updated drivers. Run W7 32 bit.

I made a search but found nothing...
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mwillems

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Re: Dangerous Full Volume Crash
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2013, 07:45:41 am »

I'm not sure if our issues are the same because there were different triggering conditions, but I had a full volume glitch a month or so ago, and I use the same sound card that you do (Essence ST + H6) [I'm also building some Hypex amps, so we have a lot in common :-) ].  

In my case it happened whenever I muted playback, and it turned out to be caused by some DSP settings that I had changed: I had some DSP modules set to "process independently of internal volume," which, according to Matt is a setting that shouldn't be fiddled with except for the DSP analyzer module.  

Like I said, you might have a different issue, but it's worth a look, especially if you've been changing the default DSP settings or use a lot of DSP.  I'd also recommend using the Unified Asus drivers rather than the factory drivers, as the factory drivers were pretty flaky for me (although they never caused transients like this for me).  

If neither of those things is the issue, you might try and do additional diagnostics.  For example, you could turn your amp way down (or, if its a block amp, unplug your speakers), and then try and replicate the glitch (with the DSP analyzer open so you can see what's happening).  That may give you a clue.

In close to a year of use of JRiver with my DAC connected directly to my amps, the only volume glitch I had was the one I described above, and that was purely my own fault.
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Matt

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Re: Dangerous Full Volume Crash
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2013, 07:58:46 am »

My guess is that you're experiencing some of the strange Cmedia driver issues I've experienced in the past.  For the Xonar, I would strongly recommend you try the third-party unified drivers.

As for loud noises, it's not normal with working hardware.  I've used a computer connected directly to a power amplifier for years now, with many DACs.  It's simply not a problem.

When you change sample rates, some devices do make a quick burst of noise (<1 second).  However, anything more points to a hardware / driver issue.

Please let us know if the unified drivers solve the problem.
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Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

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Re: Dangerous Full Volume Crash
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2013, 08:22:25 am »

I don’t know that it’s related, but I had similar problems when using the Disk Writer and Apple protected files. (M4P)
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Kukulcan

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Re: Dangerous Full Volume Crash
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2013, 08:41:38 am »

and it turned out to be caused by some DSP settings that I had changed: I had some DSP modules set to "process independently of internal volume," which, according to Matt is a setting that shouldn't be fiddled with except for the DSP analyzer module.  



Thanks mwillems and Matt! :) I use lots of parametric eq filters but I don't know if "process independently of internal volume," was engaged because I saw the small flag, that toggle it on/off, only after having played with it to understand where the switch of this option was...

Anyway as you and Matt suggested, I will try other drivers (which version would you suggest?)... and in any case, I also have the impression that the Essence ST is a very nice hardware but with drivers far below(!!!!!!) the quality of the card.

I solved the problem of the glitches told by Matt, upsampling every tracks in the DSP module: the 44.1 to 88.2, and the 48 to 96. So when I switch from HD tracks (96 or 88.2 khz) to cd quality 44.1, I hear no more glitches.

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Kukulcan

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Re: Full Volume Crash
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2013, 08:54:03 am »

As for loud noises, it's not normal with working hardware.  I've used a computer connected directly to a power amplifier for years now, with many DACs.  It's simply not a problem.

So Matt, you can feel pretty safe when you affirm that, with a serious and properly designed DAC, I don't risk to blow up good and expensive loudspeakers (and my ears), right? I also suspect strongly that the Xonar is involved, but I'm building an HTPC project, based on JRiver, and in order to get rid of an AVReceiver. I'm afraid to realize that this system will be not as reliable as an AVProcessor...(with regard to the problem described). Have you ever heard of similar problems with stuff different from the cheap Essence ST? Thanks!!!
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rayooo

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Re: Dangerous Full Volume Crash
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2013, 09:07:05 am »

Not much help with the situation at hand, but just as a comment. I've used MC for several years now, with quite expensive gear.
Probably back to version 16, but I can't recall for sure.
Of all the pops/clicks/hum/bumps etc. I've experienced for a host of reasons, none of them were ever generated by MC.
I've got a fairly simple setup, so in a way it's not even apples and apples, however, I'm confident that in my case a tube failure, power amp failure etc. will take out one or both of my speakers long before MC does.

So Matt, you can feel pretty safe when you affirm that, with a serious and properly designed DAC, I don't risk to blow up good and expensive loudspeakers (and my ears), right? I also suspect stronlgy that the Xonar is involved, but I'm building an HTPC project, based on JRiver, and in order to get rid of an AVReceiver. I'm afraid to realize that this system will be not as reliable as an AVProcessor... Have you ever heard of similar problems with stuff different from the cheap Essence ST? Thanks!!!
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Matt

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Re: Full Volume Crash
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2013, 09:14:50 am »

So Matt, you can feel pretty safe when you affirm that, with a serious and properly designed DAC, I don't risk to blow up good and expensive loudspeakers (and my ears), right?

I love the idea of using the program as the entire audio brains with no outboard processing -- just a DAC and power amplifier.  We've made every effort to do this right and it's how I use the program.  The only real thing you need to do is to enable Volume Protection.  You could also set a maximum volume level in Options > Audio if needed.

As for "idiot proof", I have lots more problems with the receiver on our living room computer.  There are so many modes, buttons, etc. and often one gets pushed and I have to help figure out why there's no sound.  That can't happen with a power amplifier -- there's only a power button!
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Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

mwillems

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Re: Dangerous Full Volume Crash
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2013, 11:02:17 am »

Thanks mwillems and Matt! :) I use lots of parametric eq filters but I don't know if "process independently of internal volume," was engaged because I saw the small flag, that toggle it on/off, only after having played with it to understand where the switch of this option was...

To be completely clear, my understanding is that the "process independently" option should be off (or unchecked) for all modules except the analyzer.

Quote
Anyway as you and Matt suggested, I will try other drivers (which version would you suggest?)... and in any case, I also have the impression that the Essence ST is a very nice hardware but with drivers far below(!!!!!!) the quality of the card.

I solved the problem of the glitches told by Matt, upsampling every tracks in the DSP module: the 44.1 to 88.2, and the 48 to 96. So when I switch from HD tracks (96 or 88.2 khz) to cd quality 44.1, I hear no more glitches.

I'm currently using version 1.64 of the unified drivers, but have had no problems with other versions I've used.  I just haven't gotten around to upgrading to 1.71, and have no reason to believe the current version won't work fine.  Check the patch notes and see if it describes any problems with the ST.
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Kukulcan

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Re: Full Volume Crash
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2013, 11:33:08 am »

I love the idea of using the program as the entire audio brains with no outboard processing --


Me too! I was so disappointed when I bought (and gave soon back) an Arcam AVR400, paid 1.500€, and realized that it doesn't even basicly EQed room modes in a 2.1 speaker configuration. Moreover for that price it hadn't even the dsp power to handle 96/24 bit tracks... Frustrating and unaccettable until I discovered the existence of JRiver MC.... ;)

Ok, I'll install the drivers suggested by mwillems, but unfortunately I will be able to say if it has worked only in 1 month time at least, since the problem happens very rarely...

Thanks to rayooo too! ;) It's good to know that he relies on MC having that gorgeous pieces of electronics...
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dean70

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Re: Full Volume Crash
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2013, 05:08:51 pm »

I am using 1.64 Unified drivers with the same Essence ST+H6 setup and havent experienced this issue. With 1600w rms of amplification connected directly to the sound card, I am a little paranoid now  :o
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mwillems

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Re: Full Volume Crash
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2013, 06:08:53 pm »

I am using 1.64 Unified drivers with the same Essence ST+H6 setup and havent experienced this issue. With 1600w rms of amplification connected directly to the sound card, I am a little paranoid now  :o

OP was using the Asus stock drivers and hasn't installed the Unified drivers yet, so that may be (as Matt suggested) the problem.

I have the same setup as you (ST+H6 with 1.64 drivers hooked directly to power amps) and haven't experienced any volume glitches other than the self-inflicted injury mentioned above.  The lesson (from my perspective) is to be careful about changing DSP settings without thinking carefully about downstream results.
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