Topic: Tomahawk Cruise missiles (Read 7560 times)

JimH · « **on:** August 27, 2013, 06:17:59 pm »

Tomahawk Cruise missiles:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomahawk_cruise_missile

Cost about $1 million each.

Speed: 550 miles per hour

Range: 1550 miles

Fired from a ship.

Destination.... Assad must be wondering.

The U.S. administration and its allies want to deliver a measured response for the use of chemical weapons. It is thought that Iran is watching to see what the allies will do.

Very complicated.

Matt · « **Reply #1 on:** August 27, 2013, 07:29:15 pm »

Syria is a mess. It's unfortunate for everyone involved. But how will firing in missiles make things better?

It's an honest question.

JimH · « **Reply #2 on:** August 27, 2013, 07:42:47 pm »

What would you do?

Matt · « **Reply #3 on:** August 27, 2013, 08:01:22 pm »

Quote from: JimH on August 27, 2013, 07:42:47 pm

What would you do?

Buy some oil stock. Royal Dutch and BP both have a 5% dividend. BP has a P/E of 5.

astromo · « **Reply #4 on:** August 27, 2013, 09:31:05 pm »

Quote from: Matt on August 27, 2013, 08:01:22 pm

Buy some oil stock. Royal Dutch and BP both have a 5% dividend. BP has a P/E of 5.

BP? And that's after:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prudhoe_Bay_oil_spill
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_City_Refinery_explosion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deepwater_Horizon_oil_spill
?

Back to Syria, of the countries opposing moves to implement sanctions how much of their stance is supported by motives of greed? Military weapons contracts? What other forms of trade? If not that, then what's the reason?

And in the meantime, plenty of innocents are the meat in the sandwich.

KingSparta · « **Reply #5 on:** August 27, 2013, 09:39:36 pm »

> "What would you do?"

Vote in someone who can handle this mess.

If they can confirm the use of chemical weapons use, they need to take him out. along with and secure any chemical weapons and or nuclear weapons, and that does mean the use of ground forces.

Libya was a mess, due to the fact that the chemical weapons that Libya had were sold to the lowest bidder.

we may see those chemical weapons someday here in the USA, Brought to you by Al-Qaeda.

kstuart · « **Reply #6 on:** August 28, 2013, 12:20:09 pm »

Quote from: Matt on August 27, 2013, 07:29:15 pm

Syria is a mess. It's unfortunate for everyone involved. But how will firing in missiles make things better?

It's an honest question.

The only thing that could make things "better" is to remove the instinctual drives of Homo Sapiens species.

As long as humans think that the point of life is "winning" in competition with everyone else, then situations like Syria will continue to be normal - as they have always been.

By the way, I misspoke - you have to go back up the family tree. In 1973, Richard Wrangham and Jane Goodall observed wild chimpanzees of one tribe, calmly journey to attack another tribe, and take their resources. So, "war" is normal and instinctual primate behavior (not just humans)...

InflatableMouse · « **Reply #7 on:** August 28, 2013, 12:32:16 pm »

Quote from: kstuart on August 28, 2013, 12:20:09 pm

So, "war" is normal and instinctual primate behavior (not just humans)...

I think this type of "war" is seen throughout nature not just primates. Humans are supposed to be smarter than that which is why we invented words like respect. Unfortunately, half the population have forgotten what that word means or has never understood it to begin with.

astromo · « **Reply #8 on:** August 28, 2013, 04:17:47 pm »

Quote from: astromo on August 27, 2013, 09:31:05 pm

Back to Syria, of the countries opposing moves to implement sanctions how much of their stance is supported by motives of greed? Military weapons contracts? What other forms of trade? If not that, then what's the reason?

And in the meantime, plenty of innocents are the meat in the sandwich.

I went off to seek insight. Some useful comment here:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/charlescrawford/100135155/why-did-russia-veto-the-un-security-council-resolution-on-syria/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rajan-menon/china-russia-veto-syria-resolution_b_1692013.html

Apart from the use of chemical weapons, nothing much has changed unfortunately.

kstuart · « **Reply #9 on:** August 28, 2013, 05:37:22 pm »

Quote from: InflatableMouse on August 28, 2013, 12:32:16 pm

I think this type of "war" is seen throughout nature not just primates. Humans are supposed to be smarter than that which is why we invented words like respect. Unfortunately, half the population have forgotten what that word means or has never understood it to begin with.

But if you view "success" as being "relative to everyone else", then your goal is "respect for me".

If you examine the viewpoint of people who are generally in charge of both government and corporations, the vast majority view success in that way. In fact, if you view "success" as "accomplishing something for everyone", then you are unlikely to want to become a politician or a CEO. Being a top leader implies success relative to everyone else, and so it attracts people who want "respect" - not people who want to give respect to others.

So, I don't think there is a solution.

JimH · « **Reply #10 on:** August 28, 2013, 06:22:28 pm »

I have a friend who said he thought everyone should have the right to kill one other person.

If you think about it, people might behave a lot more carefully.

It might be an improvement on evolution.

KingSparta · « **Reply #11 on:** August 28, 2013, 08:52:48 pm »

The problem with this is Obama Pounded his chest and said do not use chemical weapons, and they did so is he going to back up his mouth?

Personally I think they should kill each other over there and then when they are done the world will be a better place.

only 9% of Americans want to go into Syria.

what I can't understand is what is it going to do just lobbing a few rounds into Syria without securing the weapons? (nothing, so what's the point?)

Is Obama going to get approval from Congress?

I was listening to Biden in 2007 saying the president does not have the authority to go into a country unless the USA is directly threaten, does that go for Obama also or was that just because bush was in Office?

Is this A trick by Iran (because Syria does Iran's bidding) to draw the US into a war so they have justification to attack Israel?

kstuart · « **Reply #12 on:** August 29, 2013, 11:58:27 am »

Those who are in the top offices are those who are the best at getting top office.

That is the definition of "reached top office".

Not "best at governing", not "best at solving problems".

Someone who is great at solving problems, and terrible at obtaining high office, is flipping burgers somewhere.

Assad is not even any of these, he is merely great at being born to someone who was best at getting top office.

rjm · « **Reply #13 on:** August 29, 2013, 03:12:36 pm »

Perhaps the US should mind its own business.

How would the world feel if Syria bombed Washington for starting a war with Iraq and killing civilians with falsified evidence?

Bizarroterl · « **Reply #14 on:** August 29, 2013, 04:09:04 pm »

Quote from: rjm on August 29, 2013, 03:12:36 pm

Perhaps the US should mind its own business.

How would the world feel if Syria bombed Washington for starting a war with Iraq and killing civilians with falsified evidence?

touche

astromo · « **Reply #15 on:** August 29, 2013, 07:55:38 pm »

Quote from: Bizarroterl on August 29, 2013, 04:09:04 pm

Quote from: rjm on August 29, 2013, 03:12:36 pm
Perhaps the US should mind its own business.

How would the world feel if Syria bombed Washington for starting a war with Iraq and killing civilians with falsified evidence?

touche

Fair point. There is a considerable burden of proof on those governments pushing an interventionist line, especially given the history around the Iraqi "smoking gun". The movie "Fair Game" with Naomi Watts and Sean Penn, that provides a narrative on the outing of Valerie Plame, is well worth a watch for those with short memories.

As painful as the delay is to all, due process is needed to confirm beyond all reasonable doubt what happened and who perpetrated the heinous act.

Notably, just yesterday, one of the key members of the "coalition of the willing" narrowly rejected the proposal to act, i.e. the lower house of the British parliament. That's one indication of the division in opinion around this nasty mess.

JimH · « **Reply #16 on:** August 30, 2013, 07:38:55 pm »

A good BBC article on the subject.

KingSparta · « **Reply #17 on:** August 31, 2013, 04:08:46 pm »

"Obama seeking congressional OK for Syria action"

that's a good sign.

JimH · « **Reply #18 on:** August 31, 2013, 07:11:44 pm »

It was also a smart political move. He can't be criticized for going around Congress, and he puts the right wing on the spot.

I predict they will bicker over it for a few months and end up doing nothing.

KingSparta · « **Reply #19 on:** August 31, 2013, 07:48:09 pm »

I agree

Update: U.N. chemical weapons experts have left Syria and crossed into neighboring Lebanon.

not that Lebanon is a safe haven.

I know they can trace some chemical weapons to a source, I wonder after a microscopic inspection what will be the results.

bebe · « **Reply #20 on:** August 31, 2013, 09:50:14 pm »

This all seems vaguely familiar

KingSparta · « **Reply #21 on:** September 01, 2013, 07:57:16 pm »

WASHINGTON, D.C. — Protesters around the world took to the streets Saturday to protest for and against a possible U.S.-led attack on Syria, as President Barack Obama announced he would seek congressional approval for such a move.

Maybe we should spend some real money on a north and south border, and stop giving away money to countries (like what was it 8-9 billion to Africa to build bridges). we could fix up our own roads and just stay out of everyone's wars.

The only thing I can think of that would put a monkey wrench in the works Is the free flowing Oil, and if we lose oil we all will be in a much worse world. No one would have jobs and it would be the norm for your neighbor to come to your hose to kill you and take what you got. you can say that is far fetched, but it is real, it may not happen tomorrow, but it will happen one day.

KingSparta · « **Reply #22 on:** September 02, 2013, 02:10:29 pm »

NATO calls for action against Syria

NATO's chief is the latest to call for action against Syria after determining that Syria's government used chemical weapons against its people, and he called for a strong reaction from world powers. The Obama administration spent the Labor Day holiday trying to convince Congress of the same thing.

Today - 1:30pm

rjm · « **Reply #23 on:** September 02, 2013, 03:01:38 pm »

A couple articles worth reading...

http://www.resilience.org/stories/2013-09-01/what-syria-tells-us-about-world-oil-supplies

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-09-01/guest-post-who-benefits-war-between-united-states-and-syria

rjm · « **Reply #24 on:** September 02, 2013, 03:26:56 pm »

Hot off the press from one of my favorite thinkers...

http://www.economic-undertow.com/2013/09/02/left-to-our-own-devices/

kstuart · « **Reply #25 on:** September 02, 2013, 08:08:39 pm »

I think JRiver is lucky that the Beta Team does not have to work together as a team !

rjm · « **Reply #26 on:** September 05, 2013, 01:44:13 am »

A must read jem from Stockman...

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-09-04/david-stockman-end-american-imperium

kstuart · « **Reply #27 on:** September 05, 2013, 06:19:00 pm »

Basically, having only these two ideologies (conservative and liberal), is like living in a house with two other people, one who is always and only in favor of running the air conditioner, and another who is always and only in favor of running the heater.

So, in July, the first is saying "We need the Air Conditioner !", and the second is saying "We need the Heater !".

Then, in January, the first is saying "We need the Air Conditioner !", and the second is saying "We need the Heater !".

KingSparta · « **Reply #28 on:** September 05, 2013, 07:07:42 pm »

I will be the 3rd party, Libertarian with a Heat pump.

rjm · « **Reply #29 on:** September 05, 2013, 10:52:07 pm »

The only two parties that matter are thermodynamics and evolution as nothing can be understood without them.

rjm · « **Reply #30 on:** September 09, 2013, 01:08:11 pm »

Another couple very good articles.

http://ourfiniteworld.com/2013/09/09/oil-and-gas-limits-underly-syrias-conflict/

http://climatecrocks.com/2013/09/05/how-climate-change-primed-syria-for-war/

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Author Topic: Tomahawk Cruise missiles (Read 7560 times)