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[flac.rules]

I have a 12 channel amplifier, it drives a whole-house system with 5 zones (planned to be) driven by MC. My plan was to use 5 cheap 2-channel USB-dacs to drive the thing. I tried a Muse-dac from ebay for about 30 dollars, but the problem is the noise floor, the speaker hisses somewhat when no music is playing. So this causes trouble in places like the bedroom. I wondered if anybody had a tip for a cheap, compatible USB-dac with a reasonably low noise floor?

[Arindelle]

Is 99$US too much? 

There is the Schitt Modi => http://schiit.com/products/modi. I've only heard their more expensive dacs, but I really like the company and have heard that it's great for the money. It is limited to max 24bit/96k, however.

 I'd buy one of their other models for your main listening area if you can swing it though -- still very reasonable and upgradable too

[flac.rules]

Thank you for the information. 99 US in is the upper part of the budget, but i guess i can stretch to that if I have too. But I was hoping for something a bit cheaper. Any more then 24bit /96k doesn't seem necessary to me.

[mwillems]

Thank you for the information. 99 US in is the upper part of the budget, but i guess i can stretch to that if I have too. But I was hoping for something a bit cheaper. Any more then 24bit /96k doesn't seem necessary to me.

Have you looked at the Fiio E10?  I have two of it's close cousins (the e7 and the e17) and they're nice little DACs for the price.  The E10 is currently about $75 and has a relatively low noise floor.  You can see some in-depth measurements of it here (along with comparisons to some other popular DAC models): http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2012/01/fiio-e10-dac.html

[Matt]

If you're willing to do internal cards, you can get eight channels with an X-Fi Titanium or Asus/HT Omega.  Either should have a low enough noise floor for normal power amp usage.

For external USB, I've been playing with a Focusrite 18i20.  It does eight (more actually, but I'm not sure if they can be discrete or just mirror the other eight) outputs and was $450.  I'm hoping to do a review in a few weeks.  I've got it hooked to a power amplifier and the noise floor is good.  The Steinberg UR824 is similar, gets great reviews here, but is a little more expensive.

[flac.rules]

If you're willing to do internal cards, you can get eight channels with an X-Fi Titanium or Asus/HT Omega.  Either should have a low enough noise floor for normal power amp usage.

For external USB, I've been playing with a Focusrite 18i20.  It does eight (more actually, but I'm not sure if they can be discrete or just mirror the other eight) outputs and was $450.  I'm hoping to do a review in a few weeks.  I've got it hooked to a power amplifier and the noise floor is good.  The Steinberg UR824 is similar, gets great reviews here, but is a little more expensive.

I can get internal cards i guess, but it feels like a better setup with USB-dacs, easier to setup in zones with separate sound cards, and they often don't need drivers. My experience with drivers and multichannel soundcards in the past has been spotty at best

[mwillems]

If you're willing to do internal cards, you can get eight channels with an X-Fi Titanium or Asus/HT Omega.  Either should have a low enough noise floor for normal power amp usage.

For external USB, I've been playing with a Focusrite 18i20.  It does eight (more actually, but I'm not sure if they can be discrete or just mirror the other eight) outputs and was $450.  I'm hoping to do a review in a few weeks.  I've got it hooked to a power amplifier and the noise floor is good.  The Steinberg UR824 is similar, gets great reviews here, but is a little more expensive.

OP- I can personally vouch for the Steinberg UR824, it's what I use for an external DAC right now.  It's 8-channels and very low noise, but as Matt noted it is a little more expensive.

@Matt- I'll be interested to read your review.  I almost grabbed a similar Focusrite before I settled on the Steinberg at Mojave's suggestion, so I'll be curious to hear your take on it.

[kiwi]

I'd be looking at the UAC202 @ $30

http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-UCA202-Audio-Interface/dp/B000KW2YEI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1383715501&sr=8-1&keywords=uac202

http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/10/uca202-dac-take-2.html


Or the new Stoner Acoustics at $50.
http://stoneracoustics.blogspot.com/

[6233638]

Or the new Stoner Acoustics at $50.
http://stoneracoustics.blogspot.com/

Forgive me for (apparently) being an old man, but what's the deal with audio companies these days? Specifically DAC manufacturers it seems.

Stoner Acoustics? Schitt Audio?

[daveca]

CHEAP:

http://www.firefold.com/usb-sound-card-adapter?gclid=CNa67f6h3LsCFYlAMgod9BUAPQ

May be cheap quality too. But for $6 it can be thrown in the trash...

Also:

http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-Stereo-Adapter-Converter-ICUSBAUDIO/dp/B000NPKGGK

?

[Zhillsguy]

I'd be looking at the UAC202 @ $30

http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-UCA202-Audio-Interface/dp/B000KW2YEI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1383715501&sr=8-1&keywords=uac202

http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/10/uca202-dac-take-2.html


Or the new Stoner Acoustics at $50.
http://stoneracoustics.blogspot.com/

+1 for the UCA 202.....for a little higher quality (and more $), the HiFimeDIY Sabre USB DAC:

http://us.hifimediy.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=50&tracking=5113890266baa

[Jakenz]

Hi, not sure if this is the best place in which to ask this:

Based on the positive feedback on this forum by Mojave and mwillems in particular I'm seriously considering the Steinberg UR824 as an affordable but good quality DAC/preamp solution for multichannel and perhaps a little bi-amping to boot. (The poor man's exasound e28?  )

I've got a couple of pretty decent, musical two channel DACs (the S/PDIF DIY paradise Monica 2 and the cheap, but very good USB HIFIme Sabre DAC referred earlier in this thread) so am wondering how the Steinberg would compare to these. I've only found seen comments in terms of how it compares to other multichannel DACs, or in a pro-audio context.

So can anyone who has used the UR824 advise how its sound quality stacks up against dedicated two channel DACs for music - resolution, dynamics, musicality, imaging etc? Any reference points in terms of specific models or general price point equivalency in the 2 channel DAC market?

Secondly, I understand the UR824's optical outs each allow an external (and potentially higher quality) 2 channel DAC to be connected via S/PDIF and that theoretically at least the UR824 passes clocking information over S/PDIF to the external DACs. Has anyone tried this in practice with a 2 channel DAC from a different manufacturer - do the UR824's internal DACs and the external DAC stay in sync? 

Cheers

[mwillems]

So can anyone who has used the UR824 advise how its sound quality stacks up against dedicated two channel DACs for music - resolution, dynamics, musicality, imaging etc? Any reference points in terms of specific models or general price point equivalency in the 2 channel DAC market?

To me it sounds significantly better/clearer than my Fiio e17, and about the same as my ODAC.  Which makes sense; both the ODAC and the Steinberg are very low noise, and you'd expect DACs to start to sound more and more similar as they introduce less and less noise and distortion.  I haven't had much opportunity to interact with high-priced two-channel DACs, so I can't speak to the comaprison.

But the Steinberg has got a 117dB dynamic range on the line outputs, and a THD+N of 0.0009%  http://www.steinberg.net/fileadmin/files/PRODUCTS/Audio_interfaces/UR_Series/UR824/Downloads/UR824_Technical_specifications.pdf.  That's not at the bleeding edge, but still extremely good, and I haven't seen many 2 channel DACs in a comparable price range with noticeably better specs.

For reference, the lowest noise DACs I've seen currently in production have around a 128 dB SNR.  Bruno Putzeys forthcoming DAC is currently testing with a 140dB dynamic range in the prototype (which would be the lowest on record), but that's a prototype, and it'll cost more than 10K when it debuts.  

Personally, the noise floor in my room (and the noise floor on my amps for that matter) is much higher than the noise floor on the Steinberg, so as far as I'm concerned it's perfect  

Secondly, I understand the UR824's optical outs each allow an external (and potentially higher quality) 2 channel DAC to be connected via S/PDIF and that theoretically at least the UR824 passes clocking information over S/PDIF to the external DACs. Has anyone tried this in practice with a 2 channel DAC from a different manufacturer - do the UR824's internal DACs and the external DAC stay in sync?  

To my knowledge, all SPDIF signals carry the clock.  I've successfully used the SPDIF out on the Steinberg to sync a Fiio e17 to the Steinberg and it worked a treat.  I don't know how it will work with any given DAC, but I'd expect that any DAC with an SPDIF input would sync correctly.  

[Jakenz]

Great, cheers for the prompt response. Most excellent to hear confirmation of the SPDIF syncing and better still that it is comparable to the ODAC - that is no mean feat.  Agree re the specs, yeah I pretty quickly reached the conclusion I'd have a outlay a lot more to get a multichannel DAC with substantially higher spec'd DAC chips. Even 2 channel DACs using the Sabre ES9018 tend to push north of $1,000.

As an aside try as a might I couldn't uncover the actual DAC chip used in the UR824 - suspect it may be proprietary to Yamaha/Steinberg.

So I just may have to pull the trigger. As a matter of interest do you use any USB isolator (like this HIFIme one http://bit.ly/1mu9zS1) between the Steinberg and your computer or just connect direct?

[mwillems]

Great, cheers for the prompt response. Most excellent to hear confirmation of the SPDIF syncing and better still that it is comparable to the ODAC - that is no mean feat.  Agree re the specs, yeah I pretty quickly reached the conclusion I'd have a outlay a lot more to get a multichannel DAC with substantially higher spec'd DAC chips. Even 2 channel DACs using the Sabre ES9018 tend to push north of $1,000.

As an aside try as a might I couldn't uncover the actual DAC chip used in the UR824 - suspect it may be proprietary to Yamaha/Steinberg.

So I just may have to pull the trigger. As a matter of interest do you use any USB isolator (like this HIFIme one http://bit.ly/1mu9zS1) between the Steinberg and your computer or just connect direct?

I just have it plugged into the motherboard USB.  I have a pair of 113dB 1W/1M compression drivers on an old sectoral horn hooked up to the steinberg, so I tend to really notice things that push up the noisefloor on my equipment, and it seems to make no noisefloor difference what I plug it into.  I found that I got lower latency plugging it into the MoBo USB port than plugging it into a USB hub or extender, but that's the only difference I found.