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[Hendrik]

I understand that some people want more "eye candy" in Theater View, and while i personally don't really care (I watch the movie, not the interface to launch the movie), thats a fair opinion.

What i don't get is the claims of it not being usable, but maybe i just don't use it the way others do. Admitedly i don't use theater view at all for audio, so if that relates to audio more then video, i may be missing the problem here.
Personally i would like to address usability before "eye candy", so what workflows do you engage in that don't work as easily as they could? (Without the "I need the options screen in Theater View" point please )

Myself, i use Theater View to browse my Movie and TV library, and all i generally do is enter views and hit the play button on my remote - I'm not sure how usability could make that much easier, and none of the other media applications handle that much different, either.
Are you using it with a keyboard and/or mouse instead, possibly? I've heard complaints before that it doesn't work ideally with a mouse, which i can kind of agree with.

(Split from Theater View and Skins)

[Mikkel]

My main concern with Theater View is FUNCTIONALITY. I think issues of functionality should be addressed first and then things like more customization and nice eyecandy comes second. That said I like the path you are going

Theater View works allright as it is but the wife acceptance factor is not quite good enough because of some navigation issues that are a bit odd. Here are a few things which are not exhaustive but I regularly run into:

TV WATCHING
For instance, if I have a tv-channel running, decide to return to the menu while the channel is still open I will get in trouble when I want to return to the tv-channel (is it called display view?). I have two options:
1. Go to playing now and click on the "window" screen in the middle.
2. Go to the EPG -> click on the tv-channel -> click watch

A nice alternative would be:
1a. Click Playing Now and then whatever is playing is displayed immediately
2a. Click the EPG -> click on TV-channel/first show in the channel EPG-line and the selected channels starts immediately

PLAYING NOW
When pressing playing now I think JRiver should go straight to whatever is playing.
All the detailed selections in the More menu etc. should then be accessible as some sort of OSD or the like.

ZONE SELECTION
It is a constant frustration for my wife (and she blames me  ) that the audio doesn't turn on. The reason is (of course) that some other zone is selected as active. My wife doesn't get this idea and thinks it's anoying that she has to go to Playing Now -> Click Stop -> Press More -> Select correct zone -> Back to home menu -> into Music (or whatever) and select whatever she wants to listen to/view.

It would be nice with an easier way to:
3. See which zone is active
4. Choose another zone
5. Move playback in an "unwanted" zone to the desired zone (ex. when my wife plays some music in the wrong zone and needs to switch zone)


Best regards,
Mikkel

[csimon]

What i don't get is the claims of it not being usable, but maybe i just don't use it the way others do. Admitedly i don't use theater view at all for audio, so if that relates to audio more then video, i may be missing the problem here.
Personally i would like to address usability before "eye candy", so what workflows do you engage in that don't work as easily as they could?

It's designed for use with a remote control, with up, down, left and right arrows and an OK button. This does not work well for browsing large collections and selecting from lots of menu options.  When the cursor is in the middle of a list of media items, for example, what happens when you find out you're in the wrong zone and want to change it?

Myself, i use Theater View to browse my Movie and TV library, and all i generally do is enter views and hit the play button on my remote - I'm not sure how usability could make that much easier

How long does it take you to find the movie you want, or maybe back out of that particular view and go to a different one, navigating up and down the menu hierarchy? All I do in JRemote is pick the iPad up and tap on the movie I want, which is even simpler than your description of Theater View!  But there's a lot of detail hidden in the words "tap on the movie I want", as there is in your phrase "enter views and hit the Play button".

I've heard complaints before that it doesn't work ideally with a mouse, which i can kind of agree with.

Exactly!  That's the crux of the matter.  Take a look at JRemote and how easy it is to scroll, select, change options, change views, manipulate your current playlist (change the order of items, remove items, add a an item to the end), go to Now Playing etc.  Remote Control interfaces with navigable menu hierarchies are incredibly cumbersome. Mouse and Touch use are quite similar. My remote has a built-in trackball but I can't use it with Theater View because it doesn't work well with a mouse. You can't point-and-click. Coverflow doesn't work very well. I'd intended to use Theater View as an impressive-looking interface on the TV for movies but I find it such a pain to use I just pick up JRemote again.

I don't know how to suggest it's changed, I only know that a lot of users including myself find it awkward. Maybe for remote-control use, a button that switches between the media items and the menus, to save having to scroll back up in order to go to the menus? Maybe remote controls are indeed inherently awkward and there's nothing more that can be done to interfaces in order to make them easier to use, you've only got up, down, left and right arrows keys and an OK button to play with essentially, in which case perhaps it's time to move forward and create a completely new version of Theater View that is specifically designed for Mouse and Touch, then we can all go out and buy Surface 2s!

[JimH]

How long does it take you to find the movie you want, or maybe back out of that particular view and go to a different one, navigating up and down the menu hierarchy?

On a remote, the Green Button is magic for navigating.  It toggles between current view, now playing and root menu.

Left arrow always backs you out.

Move up and down through the files by using page up and page down (channel up and down on a remote), or type a letter to get to the beginning of files of that letter.

[gappie]

Left arrow always backs you out.

sometimes but some views I have to go back up back up back up

when you have some nested views it will always jump through all the views in the second roller when going back back,back,, which is annoying especially when there are some slow views in there.

also the amount of clicks when I want to see what movie I wanna see using the description field in the info panel. it has only 4 lines so its pick a movie right down down back pick an other movie etc etc... when there would be an option to show all text in a field on the info panel. that would help.

and there is more.

and I think a good way to get the info out of a library and find your way through it easily, is not eye candy but essential.

 
gab

[csimon]

Here's a good example, which is something I've just done now. It might be the fact that I haven't learned all the myriad of keypresses on a remote needed to do certain things and I don't know if I've remembered everything correctly as it happened so the description might be a bit vague, but this is just typical of the navigation and UI issues that I face every time I want to do something in Theater View.

I wanted to play a particular movie, so I navigated to it, selected it but it then went to the Info screen and I had to select the Watch option to actually play it. (I think I might have been able to press the Play button to bypass the Info screen, but to be honest it's easier to keep fingers on the arrow keys and the OK button rather than trying to find other buttons).

It started playing but I had no sound. I then realised I was playing in the wrong zone. So I had to stop play, then navigate up to Playing Now, consisting of several button presses and navigation through the options, trying to think where exactly Playing Now was, and then scroll through the zones and select it. Whereupon I then had to navigate back to the movie. But when I played it from the Info screen, it started playing in a small window in the top right corner rather than full screen. I went to Playing Now but it still didn't display full screen - it remained in a Playing Now window.  I pressed down arrow from the menu but it skipped the second roller where Display View was (and where I thought I had to be) and it highlighted the Playing Now window. So I had to navigate back up from that to the second roller and then scroll right until I reached Display View and then press OK on that.

None of this is intuitive nor easy to use, using the up and down arrows doesn't always take you to where you want to be and it can sometimes seem random as to where you end up, what zone you're in, and whether a video plays in Playing Now window, a small Info window, or full screen. Maybe I haven't set things up correctly but it's difficult to know what to do to get MC to operate intuitively.

Rather than the primary and secondary rollers concept, maybe a main window and menu bar concept with menus that drop down as you right-and-left-arrow past them, like a Windows interface. And a keypress to toggle between the main window and the menu bar, to make everything consistent so you always know where you are and what you need to do to get to a particular menu selection.  The rollers concept means that if you have a long line (or many zones) they're not all displayed on the screen horizontally.

There's no easy way to see which zone you're currently in.  Toggling between zones with a remote function doesn't display the name as far as I can see.

[Hendrik]

The topic of different zones keeps coming up, and i was wondering - do you actually play the same content through different zones depending on other factors (like small speakers for casual watching, without the big system being on), or do you simply have a "music" and "movie" zone between which you switch manually?

Because for the second case, you can automate such switches, and always make movies play in one specific zone.
I'm quite sure you have good reasons to manually switch the zones, but i just wanted to make sure.

The whole concept of changing zones manually seems pretty inconvenient, no matter how easy changing zones itself is implemented in Theater View.

[Matt]

I only have one zone for my theater.  I configure Theater View to automatically switch to it whenever it loads (Options > Theater View > Advanced).

[csimon]

I have two video zones - one for music videos which does volume levelling so that I can use it as a video jukebox without touching volume control, and the other for movies and other videos which does bitstreaming via HDMI.  I have two audio zones, no difference between them, just for two different physical locations. I do have Zone Switch rules for the video zones, none for audio as it doesn't make sense in this case, but I've found it's temperamental, especially when you're currently in an audio zone or add items to an existing playlist.  I've posted on this before and so have others.

In this particular case that I outlined above, yes I would have expected Theater View to automatically switch to the video zone and start playing fullscreen, that's how I thought I'd set things up. But it didn't and I then had navigation issues trying to fix it.

[Mikkel]

The reason I pointed out zone-switching above is because of my setup:
Zone 1 (TV): Plays audio to TV only
Zone 2 (Stereo): Plays stereo only (to save power )
Zone 3 (Surround)

All zones operate through the same TV/speakers so it is used as a sort of output selection depending on my mood and ease of youse for my wife.


Best regards,
Mikkel

[kensn]

Automatic Zone switching seems to work fine for me when I choose a single file to play. But not if a playlist is selected.
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=84670.0

Ken

[csimon]

On a remote, the Green Button is magic for navigating.  It toggles between current view, now playing and root menu.

Is the green button the big "MCE" button found on MCE remote controls?  Or do you mean one of the 4 coloured buttons?

My remote doesn't get recognised by MC as an MCE remote so I have to use the Learn facility. What function should I assign to an appropriate button to obtain the above functionality?

[csimon]

I've heard complaints before that it doesn't work ideally with a mouse, which i can kind of agree with.

Here's an example of use with an MCE remote that has a built-in trackball. Or a HTPC mini-keyboard that also has a built-in trackball.  Or a mouse.

The trackball/mouse would be ideal for navigating round hundreds of album covers to save scrolling one line at a time by pressing the down arrow button, but it doesn't work. The pointer moves around the screen and individual items get highlighted but when you get to the bottom it doesn't scroll the display, it just sticks. Presumably you have to move the pointer to the right side of the screen and move the scroll bar up and down (if your aim is good enough on a 10' interface and can make the scroll bar out and can find enough fingers to click and drag on a remote control) to actually get the screen to scroll.  This, on a touch screen, also goes against the now-accepted paradigms of swiping the screen to scroll, although I do believe that swipe now works in some cases.

You go to select a menu item by pointing at it, but it's inconsistent in that this time the highlight doesn't move to the item you're pointing to, only to the whole line.  So when you press the OK button it's the previously selected item on that line that gets actioned, not the one you were pointing to. I guess you have to use the right-click button on the remote control rather than the OK button, but again this is a usability issue and not intuitive - sometimes you use the OK button and sometimes you use right-click, what's the difference and why is there a difference?  Similarly, Cover Flow I think doesn't work properly when using a mouse or trackball although it's some time since I tried it. It doesn't scroll properly and the cover in the middle doesn't get highlighted automatically so when you press OK or Play it's a random item that gets actioned. You can't highlight an item to see more details about it without actually playing it.

Sometimes, moving the highlight to an item actually actions it, e.g. the Back item,and you can sometimes action these accidentally.  So there are actually three ways of actioning an item. Moving the highlight to it.  Pressing the OK button.  Pressing the right-click button.  And it's inconsistent as to which one you use and what you have to do to action an item.

[csimon]

In the attached picture, notice that "Dandy Warhols" is the currently highlighted item. If I want to go to the Genres view (it's directly under the Back item if it's not clear from the pic) then my instinct would be:

Up, Up, Left, Left, Left, OK

But actually it's:

Left, Left, Left, Left, OK, Right

It's not intuitive or obvious to anyone picking up the remote, that moving left off the side of the screen returns the highlight to the top line, and then to press OK on the Artists item in order to change it to Genres, and there is no need to OK on the actual item that is wanted (Genres) in order to action it.

[JimH]

Is the green button the big "MCE" button found on MCE remote controls?  Or do you mean one of the 4 coloured buttons?

My remote doesn't get recognised by MC as an MCE remote so I have to use the Learn facility. What function should I assign to an appropriate button to obtain the above functionality?

It's the big green button in the middle.
http://wiki.jriver.com/images/3/34/MCremote2.jpg

It's a standard button on almost all WMC remotes.

[dean70]

I dont have an MCE remote. Is there a keyboard equivalent of the magic green button?

[JimH]

I dont have an MCE remote. Is there a keyboard equivalent of the magic green button?

I don't know, but try an Internet search.

[csimon]

It's the big green button in the middle.
http://wiki.jriver.com/images/3/34/MCremote2.jpg

It's a standard button on almost all WMC remotes.

Hmm, I need some help here!  I do have an MCE remote control but it never worked properly with MC, so I went into the Commands facility to teach it the buttons.  The Green Button that you describe seems to have a special function, i.e. it toggles between 3 focus areas, but I can't see this particular command in the list so that I can assign it to my green button.  Furthermore, I pressed the Restore Defaults, thinking it would bring back the standard MCE functions, button but it blanked out all the commands I'd taught it. However, the remote still seems to be acting on my particular configuration that I set up previously.  So I think my questions are:

1. How do I get MC to recognise my remote as an MCE remote?
2. If I want to set up my own buttons, what command gives the "Green Button" functionality?

[MrHaugen]

Personally i would like to address usability before "eye candy", so what workflows do you engage in that don't work as easily as they could? (Without the "I need the options screen in Theater View" point please )

The problem is that those are sometimes tied together. More functionality can mean more eye candy, more eye candy can mean more functionality. For instance, I would call adding icons to give users info of video statistics for functionality. As it gives me info in a much more efficient way. This could be things like resolution icons, audio codec and channel icons, watched/not watched icons and so on. Others that does not care for those might see it as just eye candy. I don't.

Adding more possibilities in the skinning framework for manipulations of the way things appear to the users could be viewed as eye candy by some. This could include positioning of items, reorganizing how controls work, view orientations etc. But if skins are made that gives users a more intuitive experience (to them), it's suddenly much more than eye candy. Even if the skin IS looking nicer as well.

Adding items on the main menu, or under the sub menus like the 5 newest movies added to the library could be seen as eye candy. As it brightens up the menu for some. It would be a unnecessary and annoying thing for a few. But for the majority it would probably a good function. Even though it makes the skin look better (for many). So, I don't really see things as eye candy of functionality. It's mostly just all functionality in my opinion. So, my question is... Could we please drop the eternal discussion of eye candy or not? I don't expect you to throw things in there just for the bling. I don't think many of us do! We want functionality. But it can't hurt if it can be used to create a better looking UI, can it?

The only thing we need as I see it, is a discussions of how to improve things in the best possible way. This thread proves that this is an important field that people feel very strongly about. We don't really need a thread where everyone tries to defend their point of view, or the work that's put into this. We know that we are all different and have different taste, we know that lot's of hours have been put into theater view. Would it not be better to look forward and figure out how to make it even better for all of us?

[Hendrik]

Could we please drop the eternal discussion of eye candy or not?

Sorry, but right now you're the only one discussing this.
All the other responses to my question were spot on the usability and efficiency of their workflows.

There is a difference between usability, functionality, and "eye candy". Usability just aims to make navigating and using Theater View more natural and improve the "flow" of things, while the other two more focus in adding new things (features or bling), and while many things may overlap to some degree, thats not really relevant. If some piece of functionality improves usability, then thats great - if its also considered eye candy by some is not something we need to discuss.

I should probably split the usability discussion into its own thread so people don't associated it with the "Skins" thing in the title.

[Hendrik]

And to actually contribute something useful, here is a bit of feedback on the points:

PLAYING NOW
When pressing playing now I think JRiver should go straight to whatever is playing.
All the detailed selections in the More menu etc. should then be accessible as some sort of OSD or the like.

I agree that Playing Now in Theater View is cumbersome for video. Getting back to fullscreen video is quite annoying.
I tested starting playback of a video from a remote client on the weekend (because i was at my desktop PC anyway and figured i might give it a shot) which opened the video in the Playing Now screen instead of Fullscreen, and navigating to the Display View was really not pleasant.

Another point is the menu rollers, and mouse control. While a keyboard can pretty much emulate a remote with arrow keys, enter and backspace, using a mouse in Theater View is really frustrating, mostly because of the roller navigation.
I basically never use the rollers, even with a remote, because they really are bad to use. Luckily my watching workflow doesn't require them to be used - just clicking the "OK" button on the remote two times on a movie starts it playing, and i probably could've used the "Play" button as well instead.

Not sure how to improve the roller navigation without replacing it completely. I think we would all welcome ideas on that.

[jmone]

There is so much to do in the way of features rather than presentation that I think needs addressing first.  Want me to post a consolidated list?

[AndrewFG]

... what workflows do you engage in that don't work as easily as they could?

I would like to see "drill down" functionality, or "context specific jumps".
There are two work flows as follows:

Work Flow #1 - Now Playing

You are playing a random playlist; you think to yourself "I like this current track, I would like to listen to something else by the same artist"; you go to the Playing Now screen (which displays title, album, artists, composer, genre, year) and you scroll down (up/down arrow buttons) to highlight the artist and then press Enter (or right arrow button) => takes you to a list of all (other) tracks in your library by this same artist.

Other analogs for workflow #1 include: all albums of this genre; all albums recorded in this year; all tracks on this album; all tracks by this composer; (and even all tracks / albums having the same name)...

Work Flow #2 - Browsing

Similar to work flow #1 except you are just browsing the library rather than listening. You browsed (say) genre > albums > track, and you see a track composed by (say) Paul McCartney, and you press Enter (or right button) => takes you to a list of all (other) tracks in your library by this composer.


This drill down function (triggered via pressing Enter or pressing right arrow buttons) is a bit like the Windows right mouse button click that takes you to a context specific popup menu that allows you to navigate to other parts of the browse tree. i.e. context sensitive jumps.

In todays Theater View you can only start at the top of the browse tree, and then browse down to branches, twigs and leaves. And when you reached a leaf, and want to go somewhere else, then you have to go up the twig / branch and then follow another one down. i.e. you can only go up and down the tree hierarchy. Whereas if you would implement "drill down" / "context specific jumps" then you could browse across the hierarchy (between branches, twigs) as well as up and down.

This would vastly enhance the user experience; call it "surfing" your library...


PS the Logitech "Squeezebox" Media Server has this functionality. And I have used, and enjoyed it, so I can confirm that a) it works, and b) it adds great value.

{ note that on their remotes, Logitech uses a short press of the Enter button to play a track, and a long press on the Enter button to open the context menu, but in Windows this short press / long press would not work }

[MrHaugen]

Sorry, but right now you're the only one discussing this.

It was based on theater view discussion history over the past years. People who ask for additions for theater view are often shot down by developers and senior members for being eye candy centric. While it's really not the intention in most cases for those that ask. As you say, let's hope that it's not something we need to discuss. Time will tell...

Not sure how to improve the roller navigation without replacing it completely. I think we would all welcome ideas on that.

We could leverage the rolling more. For example allow the user to flip the rollers left and right (like now). The item that is focused in the middle snaps in place and the item is automatically selected and entered. And you should have a very small delay here, so you can flip through more items than is shown on the screen. The same goes for the users that like to just click items on the rollers. Center the item in the middle, and after a very short delay, enter the item. This could even be useful for remote/keyboard usage.  It could potentially dramatically improve touch experience imo. At least as I see it.

The other choice is probably to totally move away from the roller system. I have mixed feelings about that. It could open up more possibilities, allowing for more user defined button placements. More creativity, more variations in skins. But also more confusing for users perhaps. You will have a myriad of solutions once the skinners start doing their thing. I believe this mainly will be a good thing though. People will most likely find the skin that are the most intuitive to them. The problem would be to allow this, with out current options for customization of the rollers...  

[MrHaugen]

I like AndrewFG's suggestion of context aware behavior. It's been suggested before in the simple request of URL or local links to Trailers for movies. Selecting the "Trailer" button and hitting enter would play the trailer and then return to the movie. Those sort of things could improve usability and user experience very much.  Allowing for user configured "Context specific behavior" could open up a lot of doors.

[JimH]

It was based on theater view discussion history over the past years. People who ask for additions for theater view are often shot down by developers and senior members for being eye candy centric. While it's really not the intention in most cases for those that ask. As you say, let's hope that it's not something we need to discuss. Time will tell...

It might be more productive to skip this kind of remark and just propose your idea.  Simple improvements are always considered.

[AndrewFG]

Allowing for user configured "Context specific behavior" could open up a lot of doors.

Please don't over stress "user configured" stuff -- personally I would like this feature available as standard...

[MrHaugen]

I don't. I would expect JRiver to implement something simple to see if it works, and then perhaps improve it over time if it's a good idea. IF they decide to use some of these suggestions. I'm just like you in that field I suspect. Would rather have something small as a start, than nothing at all.

[Hendrik]

While i think such a concept could be really useful, I'm not sure how it would work in the concept of views that power Theater View.

Assume you select the Artist in some music title, does that assume your Theater View somewhere has a "Artist" view that it can use and switch to?
Does it produce the view on the fly? Which settings does it use for this view?

With all views in Theater View (and Standard View) being defined by you in your library, such an implicit automatic context driven view might be challenging.
I'm sure we could make it work, but it would open a certain can of worms that i'm not sure is wise to open without very careful planning.

PS:
But of course I'm German, and we Germans have often been told that we prefer planning stuff to the last detail and trying to cover every possibility instead of just trying and going with it. 

[AndrewFG]

Assume you select the Artist in some music title, does that assume your Theater View somewhere has a "Artist" view that it can use and switch to?
Does it produce the view on the fly?

Yes I understand the difficulty.

If I have a field with (say) Artist == "Paul McCartney" and I ask to drill down on that, then the resulting view must be populated only with music where that filter is actually true. So in other words, a drill down view is essentially always going to be built on the fly.

In the case that (say) I did not have an Artists view defined in the browse tree, if I actually ask for a drill down on Artist == "Paul McCartney", then I am now expressing an explicit wish that (even if I did not have such a view before) I now want such a view to be created.

In other words built on the fly...

Which settings does it use for this view?

I could imagine MC having a standard (but user configurable) template for a view called (say) "drill down on the fly"...

But of course I'm German, and we Germans have often been told that we prefer planning stuff to the last detail and trying to cover every possibility instead of just trying and going with it.  

You can relax Hendrik. I live and work in Switzerland...

[raym]

There is so much to do in the way of features rather than presentation that I think needs addressing first.  

Totally agree.

Re menus: It took months of debating and dev time to arrive at a menu system that works and honestly, it works well overall, considering all relevant input types, and I'd hate to see too much more time wasted here. There's naturally areas for improvement but I don't consider the roller menu system an area of theater view that needs a lot of attention.

People have presented lots of good ideas for v19 theater view. The context sensitive Nav and search ideas are the sort of thing I'd like to see time spent on.

PS - and how about this for a usability idea..... It's 2013 and I still can't save a playlist to a folder of my choosing or edit/rearrange/re-save an existing one. I consider this to be an example of a  serious shortfall with respect to usability. The item selection subsystem (ie selecting multiple items for tagging etc) is also significantly lacking with respect to usability.

[gappie]

It was based on theater view discussion history over the past years. People who ask for additions for theater view are often shot down by developers and senior members for being eye candy centric. While it's really not the intention in most cases for those that ask. As you say, let's hope that it's not something we need to discuss. Time will tell...

I actually agree. since the big change in 12 it came up oft enough. and as shown above it still is true about how its shot down. there are enough posts in this thread and http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=82489.0 that show that the roller system could need a second thought. and that Theater View as it is, does not work for enough people. it has bugs and is clumsy. the original thread was started by jriver, a lot of people reacted and the only one who really replied after all the suggestions and stuff that is hendrik (thanks).

 
gab

edit.. oh and and not everybody thinks it looks nice... but that is for the eyecandy discussion.

[glynor]

Is the green button the big "MCE" button found on MCE remote controls?  Or do you mean one of the 4 coloured buttons?

My remote doesn't get recognised by MC as an MCE remote so I have to use the Learn facility. What function should I assign to an appropriate button to obtain the above functionality?

I posted on this recently...

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=84541.msg577612#msg577612

[glynor]

I agree that Playing Now in Theater View is cumbersome for video. Getting back to fullscreen video is quite annoying.

Not if you have a Green Button assigned. 

[Hendrik]

Not if you have a Green Button assigned. 

Sadly my Harmony remote doesn't have a green button, but i suppose i could try to figure out how to assign that functionality to some other button to see if it truely helps to improve things.
But that still leaves the problem of navigating without a remote, i guess.

[AndrewFG]

Sadly my Harmony remote doesn't have a green button, but i suppose i could try to figure out how to assign that functionality to some other button to see if it truely helps to improve things.

You can teach your Harmony the green button code. I have the Harmony "Guide" button programmed as the green button.
But obviously you need to borrow a remote from somebody so you can teach its code to your Harmony.

[Micromecca]

The Green Button is there in the Logitech Harmony software ready for you to assign to whatever key you want.
If you don't see it add a new device and search for 'Media Center SE'   

[Hendrik]

Yeah i think i've seen it in the config, its just that it doesnt have an obvious hardware button for it, so Guide may make sense, i'll test it later.
I have an old MCE remote otherwise that i could use for learning, too.

[bivan]

There is no need to learn any command using a second remote. The device is called "Windows Media Center SE" as mentioned above. I have mapped the hardware button called "Exit" to Media Center command called "Media" since there is no function named "green button". The "Start" command may also work. I would not recommend overwriting the Guide button because it is assigned to the Guide command and that brings on the EPG (some people may use it for TV).

You can see your current Harmony configuration also on web here (if you remember the username/pass): http://myremotesetup.com/

[glynor]

But that still leaves the problem of navigating without a remote, i guess.

I'd call that button absolutely essential for my use of Theater View.  Without it, I agree completely... Much too hard to toggle through the relevant modes.  F11 provides similar (though not identical) functionality from a keyboard.  There might be an esoteric keyboard shortcut that does exactly the same thing, but I've never had cause to look around.  In any case, the command is:

mc19.exe /MCC 22001,0

To be clear: I don't disagree that it would be nicer (especially for touchscreens) to have an easier mouse-only way to essentially do the same thing.  Likewise, switching Zones from Theater View is very fiddly (often forcing you to dig "in" and "out" of views a lot).

One thing I'd mention, though... I use the Theater View Playing Now screen extensively.  I have Theater View set to Play Video files directly to Display View (Fullscreen) and Audio files to Theater View's Playing Now.  This works great for music (and I think it looks nice too with the slideshow and cover art).  It is especially handy for rating files and things like that, and if I want to send my visualizer fullscreen, it is only a single push of the "green button" away.

I'd just caution that before you make any changes, get a handle on using Theater View for Music and Podcasts, not just Video files.  They do have different needs.

Oh, and I use the Secondary Rollers extensively.  I use them as essentially "filters"...  So, the view I open defines the "type" of files I can see (Music, Podcasts, TV Shows, Movies, Documentaries, etc), but the Secondary Roller items select the "style" and "sorting" of that view (so, flat-with-newest-on-top, versus Series/Season, versus Genre/Artist/Album, etc).  I can post some examples if you'd like.

As I've mentioned before... I really, really think that some better default views for Theater View would go a long way towards solving the "Theater View is limited/ugly meme" as well.  It won't convince people who want something really flashy (like the screen capture with the ridiculous spinning optical disc graphic posted on some other thread that made me throw up a little in my mouth), but it might make it feel much more usable out of the box.

[csimon]

I posted on this recently...

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=84541.msg577612#msg577612

Ahh, thank you, I'll have a play with that.

[dean70]

you have Ctrl+T available to cycle through the zones. I have that programmed into a button on the remote.

[drmimosa]

As I've mentioned before... I really, really think that some better default views for Theater View would go a long way towards solving the "Theater View is limited/ugly meme" as well.

Glynor,

I think a while back you posted some library backups to demonstrate some of your Theater View customizations. Are these still available to check out?

Thanks!

[eddyshere]

Benfitting that a thread is now specifically open i just ask once again (all other requests from us regular joe users re that topic have never found open ears).
For me eyecandy is so individual that i'm mostly ok with all that can be done as long as it remains customizeable. (Ie i can turn it off)

No.....theaterview lacks info display ability : why can't i open the audio path in theaterview at theaterview font size ?

It would be great if one could say "we look into it" or "forget will never happen".

[glynor]

you have Ctrl+T available to cycle through the zones. I have that programmed into a button on the remote.

Yeah.  Unfortunately, even if I did have a sensible button on my remote to assign to that function (I don't, so I'd have to remember that random-button or random-button-combination does it) it doesn't give any on-screen feedback in any way, so when my wife would be using it from Theater View, there would be no way to "tell" what had happened.

Plus, it doesn't scale well to having many zones.  I don't quite yet on my HTPC, but next spring (when it warms up and I'm not lazy anymore) I will have:

1. Standard (regular theater mode)
2. Night (quiet mode for when the kid is sleeping)*
3. Porch (the zone with the indoor/outdoor speakers on my porch)
4. Unified (Standard + Porch linked)

And that's not counting the Client/Server zones that show up, and my new Yamaha amp that shows up as a DLNA device.  That's quite a list to toggle through!

* I have other issues on this one, but I need to do some testing and post that separately.

I think a while back you posted some library backups to demonstrate some of your Theater View customizations. Are these still available to check out?

Yeah, I did, and that thread is still out there and the download still works.

The Library is old though.  It was a bit of a pain to clean the Library up for posting, so I haven't done it again.

[pcstockton]

Oh, and I use the Secondary Rollers extensively.  I use them as essentially "filters"...  So, the view I open defines the "type" of files I can see (Music, Podcasts, TV Shows, Movies, Documentaries, etc), but the Secondary Roller items select the "style" and "sorting" of that view (so, flat-with-newest-on-top, versus Series/Season, versus Genre/Artist/Album, etc).  I can post some examples if you'd like.

Yes PLEASE!!!  Mostly, how to set them up of course.

Thanks!
Patrick

[Mikkel]

you have Ctrl+T available to cycle through the zones. I have that programmed into a button on the remote.

Since this is one of my achilles heels I'll comment a bit on this, since it is a response I have seen before (by no means is this intended as an attack on your remark. I'm just making my point clear):

I don't have a remot but use Gizmo. But even if I had the other two (and REAL) problems are:

a: It isn't transparent which zone is currently active. This is where my wife hunts me down and blames me for the reason that no sound is played back. How could she have know, the sound was going to the stereo and not the TV?
b: The second problem arises when I tell her to switch zone to get audio. She switches zone and STILL no audio. Why? Because the audio is STILL playing in the other zone. So she hunts me down once again and at this point in time public diplomacy is needed (and our child is screaming because her favourite movie is playing WITHOUT sound). To solve the matter I have to ask her to do the following (and now I have to buy flowers for a month):

ba: Go back to the old zone
bb: Press "Stop"
bc: Pick your zone of choice
bd: Find whatever you want to play (again!)

So four steps (in fact more if you consider the steps required to find zones etc.). That is a lot for something that intuitively (and perhaps not technically) should only be "a press on a button" and voila, sound and picture.

So it really is not that simple as programming a button to switch zones. Therefore, to repeat myself:
1. It must be transparent which zone is playing
2. When switching zone it must be possible to automatically transfer the currently playing to the new zone


[EDIT: I can see glynor already posted something along what I've written above... thanks glynor]

[glynor]

Yes PLEASE!!!  Mostly, how to set them up of course.

I'll try to do something this weekend.

[glynor]

2. When switching zone it must be possible to automatically transfer the currently playing to the new zone

Yeah, this is one of my issues as well (and is mainly what I was indicating when I put the asterisk in my previous comment).

In some places, I use Zones as they are designed (separate, simultaneous playback "zones").  However, we can also use them to do things like "Midnight Mode", or switch the home theater between using the TV's speakers and using the surround receiver.  The problem is that, in order to use Midnight Mode via MC's Zones system, you have to decide what zone to use BEFORE you click play.  There is no way to toggle while playback is active, which is the exact opposite of the behavior of every Consumer Electronics receiver I've ever used, and confuses everyone.

For my "Midnight Mode" Zone to be viable instead of using what Yamaha has built into my receiver, I need to be able to switch it on and off with the push of a button without stopping and restarting playback.  Otherwise, WAF == nil.

[csimon]

[EDIT: I can see glynor already posted something along what I've written above... thanks glynor]

Yes, I did too in post 6 above!