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Author Topic: Theater View For JRiver For Mac  (Read 6324 times)

mwheelerk

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Theater View For JRiver For Mac
« on: May 20, 2014, 08:28:51 pm »

I am not trying to beat a lifeless dog to death but please can we get Theater View for the Mac version?  I am tired of a dimensionless image of cover artwork filling the screen with zero information such that when I am not familiar with a particular song I have to change my view to get information. I, like everyone else I assume, just want to be treated equally (to Windows users). Why is this such a problem to implement?

P.S. I love your product, really I do.
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glynor

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Re: Theater View For JRiver For Mac
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2014, 08:35:37 pm »

I'd love it too.

It is a big project though, as Theater View is built on Direct3D (part of the Microsoft stack) and it would have to be ported to OpenGL.  JRiver has stated already that this won't be a MC19 thing definitively.

The goal is to eventually port it.

I think to be really useful, they need video support first.
Before all of that, the Mac version needs to finish up some additional Audio things (like ripping and burning).

So, I agree, but it is what it is now.
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mwheelerk

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Re: Theater View For JRiver For Mac
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2014, 08:17:46 am »

I guess I'm just being a little impatient.  Its been 8 months since the release of 19 and I have seen some bug fixes but no feature advances that I can recall.
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jimm2

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Re: Theater View For JRiver For Mac
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2014, 09:54:58 am »

I guess I'm just being a little impatient.  Its been 8 months since the release of 19 and I have seen some bug fixes but no feature advances that I can recall.

I feel your pain. I too am getting a bit disgruntled as the development pace on the Mac version seems to have slowed to a crawl. Then I see JRiver putting resources against a hardware product that only 15% of their users said they would buy. Very disheartening.

Love the product but at the current development pace it now looks like it'll be several years and versions before we see anything even close to parity with the Windows product.
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glynor

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Re: Theater View For JRiver For Mac
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2014, 11:10:58 am »

I'd agree that they've been a little slower than normal... But for good reason.

But, they did add Retina support relatively recently, and that's a big deal (many other applications ship JUST that and call it a major point version upgrade).  There's more coming as well, though I can't say more.
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jimm2

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Re: Theater View For JRiver For Mac
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2014, 02:12:28 pm »

I see all these recent posts about JRiver breaking sales records, adding new personnel, a new hardware product, Pono contract, etc. Sure wish JRiver would focus some attention on the people who paid for a Mac product that currently has about 1/10th of the functionality of the Windows product offered at the same price. Can't speak for anyone else but I bought at this price to invest in JRiver furthering the development of the Mac product. Seems like that money is going elsewhere. 
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JimH

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Re: Theater View For JRiver For Mac
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2014, 02:31:10 pm »

Sorry you're unhappy.
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jimm2

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Re: Theater View For JRiver For Mac
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2014, 03:15:22 pm »

Sorry you're unhappy.

Thanks, that helps a lot.
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JimH

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Re: Theater View For JRiver For Mac
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2014, 03:23:55 pm »

We try.
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mwheelerk

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Re: Theater View For JRiver For Mac
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2014, 09:26:32 pm »

Sorry you're unhappy.

Geez Jim. I don't think that comment is warranted. You have customers who like your product and have paid good money for it yet are being given something less than the Windows users are offered. I don't think an expectation of an approach to equality is asking too much and certainly doesn't deserve an off handed remark like that. I would think respect for your clientele might warrant at least some explanation of plans and direction. If I gave one of my customers a response like that I don't think I would hold their business long. Frankly I think it is condescending.

And I still like (the potential of) the product.
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jimm2

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Re: Theater View For JRiver For Mac
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2014, 09:51:24 pm »

Geez Jim. I don't think that comment is warranted. You have customers who like your product and have paid good money for it yet are being given something less than the Windows users are offered. I don't think an expectation of an approach to equality is asking too much and certainly doesn't deserve an off handed remark like that. I would think respect for your clientele might warrant at least some explanation of plans and direction. If I gave one of my customers a response like that I don't think I would hold their business long. Frankly I think it is condescending.

And I still like (the potential of) the product.

Couldn't agree more. Why even bother responding if that's all you have to offer.

If you're trying to drive users away, that'll do the trick.
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glynor

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Re: Theater View For JRiver For Mac
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2014, 08:22:02 am »

I'm completely baffled now...

He said he was sorry that you're unhappy, which is true (I'm sure) and entirely reasonable.

He isn't sorry for his product, and I don't blame him, because many users are happy with it (otherwise it wouldn't be selling).  I like it, for example, and use it quite often.  Way more often than I use PDFPen, for example, which cost double the price of MC.  Do I wish it was even better?  Sure!  Do I wish the Windows version was even better?  Also sure!  But am I entitled?  No.  That's not how it works when you buy stuff.

I also don't think he should feel sorry for the progress they've made.  Considering challenging circumstances for the past 5 1/2 months, they've made some decent progress.  As much as they would have had Matt not gotten hurt?  No, probably not, but decent.

I understand the impatience, but a product is what a product is.  You bought a product, not a share in the company.  It reminds me of the people who got all offended because they bought an Oculus Rift on Kickstarter and then they sold to Facebook and (I guess) people were ticked because they felt like they had some kind of ownership of the company or something?  No, they bought a product.  They got that product.

Same deal here.  If Theater View being developed during this product cycle was essential to you, then you were dreaming from the get-go.

To be clear, Theater View is essentially a complex 3D game completely written in Direct3D.  You cannot run Direct3D on OSX, and have to use OpenGL instead (which is substantially more complex, which is why games don't come to Mac as quickly or ever).  Porting Theater View to OpenGL is a massive project, that would probably require substantial time and dedicated developers over months (and perhaps years).  This would negatively impact all other development on the product in the interim.

As I said, I think it is a long-term goal.  But, there are much more pressing fires right now.
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JimH

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Re: Theater View For JRiver For Mac
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2014, 09:16:36 am »

You have customers who like your product and have paid good money for it yet are being given something less than the Windows users are offered.
The Mac version has been a subset of the Windows version from the beginning.  It may always be that way.   We develop on Windows and then we port to Mac and Linux.

The software has a 30 day trial.  If you bought it, you were buying the product you tried.

You did not pay for future development.  You did not even pay for past development.  You paid for the product you tried.

We would like to have complete parity of the products, but it isn't possible.  There are technical reasons.  There are resource reasons.  There are business priority reasons.

I'm sorry you don't understand this.  I'm sorry you think I'm being condescending. 

We run a fairly open development environment.  We value the input that we receive from users like you.  Sometimes it may give users a sense of ownership.  And that can both help or (in this case) hurt.

I'll let you reply if you wish and then I'll lock this thread and go back to work.
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jimm2

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Re: Theater View For JRiver For Mac
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2014, 10:15:40 am »

Seems if a customer expresses any opinions of dissatisfaction that somehow translates to they have a false sense of ownership. 

For a company that relies so heavily on the user community for support, user docs, etc., you'd think they would treat paying customers with a bit more respect.


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glynor

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Re: Theater View For JRiver For Mac
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2014, 10:59:09 am »

Thank you for your feedback.

I think it is pretty clear that you (and mwheelerk) feel that implementing Theater View on OSX sooner rather than later is of the utmost importance.  So, I think this thread has run its course.  I'm sure they'll consider this when they come to the next round of priority setting, along with all of the other feedback they receive.

Have a great day.
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