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Author Topic: No DSD with 19.0.141  (Read 4159 times)

neolith

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No DSD with 19.0.141
« on: June 20, 2014, 07:10:46 pm »

I was unable to use DSD in DoP with build 19.0.138 but thought this was fixed with 19.0.141 but I still can't get it to work with my Loki DAC. The DSD pilot light on the Loki does not turn on and there is no sound although the MC 19 shows that the file is playing. MC19 works fine in the Windows version but I can't get it to go on Linux. Any ideas?

Configuration: Ubuntu 14.04,  Playback device set to Schiit DSD speakers, Output format DSD in DoP (no bitstream), Device: front:CARD=DEVICE,DEV=0 [ALSA]
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Matt

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Re: No DSD with 19.0.141
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2014, 09:06:25 pm »

Is this a Linux specific bug, or does it apply to the Windows version as well?
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Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

InflatableMouse

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Re: No DSD with 19.0.141
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2014, 03:14:08 am »

There are issues with DSD on Linux. Detail can be found here.
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neolith

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Re: No DSD with 19.0.141
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2014, 09:42:05 am »

Ok, I thought they were fixed with 19.0.141. Hopefully you guys will get this figured out and I will wait patiently on the sidelines until then. I don't want to pay for a license for the Windows version but I will happily buy a license for Linux once this problem is resolved.  
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bob

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Re: No DSD with 19.0.141
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2014, 10:41:25 am »

InflatableMouse that thread http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=87475.0 was left hanging.
Did you have anything to add to what's there?
As I said in the lower part of that thread, I don't see what we can do differently.
We are sending DSD as DoP marked PCM to the PCM device and it should play it from what I can tell.
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InflatableMouse

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Re: No DSD with 19.0.141
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2014, 01:05:46 pm »

Sorry. Forgot I said I would do something there.

I'm unable to install debian on the NUC but I can dual boot my own pc and test from there. I'll do that and repeat my tests.

I got to add that unless something has changed in MC in recent versions that I don't think its going to change anything, I had already tested it from debian before with the exact same results.
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InflatableMouse

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Re: No DSD with 19.0.141
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2014, 01:42:53 pm »

I retested with Debian 7.5 x64 XFCE. No Pulse installed.

Output Mode: None
All DSD files play (1x or 2x, dff, dst, dsf or sacd iso).
DAC Display shows everything correctly

Everything plays fine.

Output mode set to DoP 1x or 2x
DAC Display says PCM 176.4 or 352.8 kHz. This is incorrect, it should display DoP format.

MC is playing (time progresses) but there is no sound, the DAC is not recognizing the stream as DoP, it thinks its PCM.

Bitstreaming DSD
When bitstreaming 1x or 2xDSD files, the DAC displays the same thing as with output mode set to DoP. The DAC's display should show DSD 2.8 or 5.6MHz.

There is no sound (same as above).

So no difference.
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bob

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Re: No DSD with 19.0.141
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2014, 10:34:26 am »

I retested with Debian 7.5 x64 XFCE. No Pulse installed.

Output Mode: None
All DSD files play (1x or 2x, dff, dst, dsf or sacd iso).
DAC Display shows everything correctly

Everything plays fine.

Output mode set to DoP 1x or 2x
DAC Display says PCM 176.4 or 352.8 kHz. This is incorrect, it should display DoP format.

MC is playing (time progresses) but there is no sound, the DAC is not recognizing the stream as DoP, it thinks its PCM.

Bitstreaming DSD
When bitstreaming 1x or 2xDSD files, the DAC displays the same thing as with output mode set to DoP. The DAC's display should show DSD 2.8 or 5.6MHz.

There is no sound (same as above).

So no difference.
I'm not an expert on the workings of DSD in MC however what can we deduce from these results?
Taking the problems one at a time.
Using the same hardware with windows and the same settings this works I assume?

In linux, with the Output mode set to DoP 1x or 2x setting it seems as if the bitrate 176.4 or 352.8 kHz is correct and the DAC thinks the stream is PCM (which it actually is) but it's not seeing the DoP headers?
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bob

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Re: No DSD with 19.0.141
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2014, 10:52:05 am »

Thanks to Hendrik we've figured this out.
We need alsa >=1.0.27.1 for alsa to accept DSD however debian wheezy is currently on 1.0.25.
Until that changes we are pretty much stuck.
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Hendrik

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Re: No DSD with 19.0.141
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2014, 11:02:02 am »

To slightly expand on this, ALSA doesn't accept DoP directly, it wants raw DSD and then lets the audio driver itself handle the transport (ie. the usb alsa driver will wrap it into DoP by itself).
That means we need to write handling for this case in MC, however that requires a newer ALSA on our development/build platform, so just using a new ALSA on your own PC won't help.
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InflatableMouse

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Re: No DSD with 19.0.141
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2014, 01:15:28 pm »

Thanks both of you, great to see you figured out what's wrong.

I assume this is also a problem on the JRiver Id then?

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Hendrik

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Re: No DSD with 19.0.141
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2014, 05:42:35 pm »

The bad news is, we were misinformed earlier and our last two posts are just plain wrong.

The good news is, we made DSD over DoP work with our Mytek Stereo192 DSD DAC.
It'll be in the next build which bob is preparing right now, and hopefully also work on other DSD DACs!

For reference purposes:
For us, DSD required USB 2.0 and a special Linux driver and firmware for this DAC, and it played over S32_LE at 176.4kHz for DSD64 - while the DAC showed DSD and music came out.
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InflatableMouse

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Re: No DSD with 19.0.141
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2014, 01:34:05 am »

Awesome! It plays both 1 and 2x DSD now.

Small issue, on the first try to play something, it popped up a message that output could not be started on [alsa], but a second try it starts playing.

The issue is reproducable, each time I switch output mode from 1x to 2x DoP or back, it does this. Once it plays it plays fine its only the first time starting playback after switching.

When I reproduced the issue to create the log, it first popped up the message that it can't start playback, the second time it started playing for a second and then stopped (no progress either, it literally stopped). A 3rd attempt to play started playing properly.
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Hendrik

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Re: No DSD with 19.0.141
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2014, 07:40:02 am »

Its getting an error from ALSA: "No such device or address".
Not sure we're doing anything fancy, and it always worked on the first try for us..
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InflatableMouse

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Re: No DSD with 19.0.141
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2014, 07:58:50 am »

It was a known issue in the past with playlists with mixed sampling rates. Some people reported it worked fine for them while for others it didn't. I don't know whether MC logged "no such device or address" back then too. Maybe Bob remembers?
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neolith

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Re: No DSD with 19.0.141
« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2014, 05:16:25 pm »

Problem resolved with 19.0.146. I posted the success as a new thread so no one has to go searching.
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