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Author Topic: NEW: Linked Tracks  (Read 42151 times)

Matt

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NEW: Linked Tracks
« on: July 23, 2014, 12:07:31 pm »

Next build:
NEW: Added the ability to link tracks together so they always play together. (Library Tools > Link Tracks)
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mark_h

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NEW: Linking Songs
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2014, 01:22:03 pm »

That's a really nice addition.

I guess these links will appear in smartlists, for instance if I pull one track into the smartlist will the other always appear?  I'm guessing it should but would be nice if there was a way to know there was a linked file so they could be filtered from smartlists if necessary...

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mark_h

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NEW: Linking Songs
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2014, 01:22:39 pm »

How are circular links handled?
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Matt

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NEW: Linking Songs
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2014, 02:49:40 pm »

I guess these links will appear in smartlists, for instance if I pull one track into the smartlist will the other always appear?  I'm guessing it should but would be nice if there was a way to know there was a linked file so they could be filtered from smartlists if necessary...

The links are only applied at playback time.
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mojave

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NEW: Linking Songs
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2014, 09:32:53 pm »

Will the Links work for video? Can we now combine Blu-ray movies that span multiple discs?

One could conceivably create Particles with playback ranges for TV shows and use Links to combine the Particles so that commercials are skipped.
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wig

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NEW: Linking Songs
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2014, 11:23:45 am »

Next build:
NEW: Added the ability to link tracks together so they always play together. (Library Tools > Link Tracks)

Yeah! Setting aside some time to link tracks this weekend.

What are some of the first tracks you'll link together?

Brain Damage/Eclipse by Pink Floyd was already mentioned. Here are a few others that jump to mind.

Beatles - St Pepper's/With A Little Help From My Friends
           - The Entire Abbey Road Medly? Definitely Golden Slumber/Carry That Weight

Pink Floyd - Empty Spaces/Young Lust

Neutral Milk Hotel - Two Headed Boy/The Fool

Led Zeppelin - Your Time is Gonna Come/Black Mountain Side

 
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fitbrit

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NEW: Linking Songs
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2014, 12:17:34 pm »

Anyone care to dispute how amazing Matt et al are? :)
I'll play with this feature after considering what I'd like linked.
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JimH

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NEW: Linking Songs
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2014, 01:24:33 pm »

Note that this is a version 20 feature.  The first one.
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mark_h

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NEW: Linking Songs
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2014, 01:33:27 pm »

Ready to sign up!  ;D
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astromo

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Re: NEW: Linking Songs
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2014, 02:53:00 am »

Ready to sign up!  ;D

You and me both buddy.

I've been using software to join separate tracks together so that they play back "just right". One notable pairing is Steve Miller Band's "Jet Airliner" that has a separate prelude, "Threshold". The main song track just doesn't sound right without the prelude.

It would be super fabulicious if I could link track pairs that should be gapless like this without faffing about. Seriously, thanks in advance..   ;D
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kensn

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Re: NEW: Linking Songs
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2014, 08:23:56 am »

This is excellent... I feature that I have been wanting for a while!!

Ken
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BryanC

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Re: NEW: Linking Songs
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2014, 09:13:06 am »

Question.

Will this also link tracks together during handheld sync?
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JustinChase

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Re: NEW: Linking Songs
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2014, 09:29:07 am »

Note that this is a version 20 feature.  The first one.

That's just mean   :'(
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mojave

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Re: NEW: Linking Songs
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2014, 01:56:00 pm »

I tried out Link Tracks. Here is some more info:

Link Tracks has a new tag called Link.
The Link tag contains the FileKey of the next track.
Only one FileKey can be in the field at a time.
Files are connected in the order they are selected.
Selecting a linked file for playback only plays the next link(s). The previous link(s) are not added.
You have to choose the first file in the link if you want all linked files to play in order.

Particles linked within the same video file cause the file to be reopened and the cover art to flash on the screen. Is there a way for links to jump around in a video file smoothly?

I remembered today that along, long time ago I mentioned I had some trivia slides for playback before a movie while waiting for people to get food and seated. I wanted a way to link the question with the answer and display random questions. I'm going to try to see if I can get it to work now.
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JustinChase

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Re: NEW: Linking Songs
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2014, 02:05:32 pm »

Selecting a linked file for playback only plays the next link(s). The previous link(s) are not added.

That's too bad.  Hopefully this can be improved since many 2nd tracks will get selected by smartlists.
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astromo

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Re: NEW: Linking Songs
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2014, 05:26:41 pm »

A thought occurred to me, how does Link Tracks manage exported files - say when doing a handheld sync?

Does the link carry through or is the link only good when you're within the MC environment?

Tested it out for audio BTW - nice.
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wig

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Re: NEW: Linking Songs
« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2014, 08:23:20 am »

I tried out Link Tracks. Here is some more info:

Link Tracks has a new tag called Link.
The Link tag contains the FileKey of the next track.
Only one FileKey can be in the field at a time.
Files are connected in the order they are selected.
Selecting a linked file for playback only plays the next link(s). The previous link(s) are not added.
You have to choose the first file in the link if you want all linked files to play in order.

Particles linked within the same video file cause the file to be reopened and the cover art to flash on the screen. Is there a way for links to jump around in a video file smoothly?

I remembered today that along, long time ago I mentioned I had some trivia slides for playback before a movie while waiting for people to get food and seated. I wanted a way to link the question with the answer and display random questions. I'm going to try to see if I can get it to work now.


Thanks for the report. What happens if the linked track is next in Now Playing? Does it still get added, or does JRiver know it's already there?
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Matt

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Re: NEW: Linking Songs
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2014, 08:32:46 am »

A thought occurred to me, how does Link Tracks manage exported files - say when doing a handheld sync?

The link is only expanded during playback.  Handheld transfer doesn't use links.
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Castius

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Re: NEW: Linking Songs
« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2014, 01:35:30 pm »

Nice idea.
As a bonus you should be able to upload the linked data. So they can be shared metadata.
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mdx1

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Re: NEW: Linking Songs
« Reply #19 on: July 31, 2014, 05:36:18 pm »

Next build:
NEW: Added the ability to link tracks together so they always play together. (Library Tools > Link Tracks)

Can the link tracks feature be automatic based on the album?  In another word, is there an option to set so all tracks in a single album will be linked and played sequentially as one unit?  Right now, the shuffle play does not work for symphonies or concerti with multiple movements.  Those movements or tracks are meant to be played together in order, gapless, even during a shuffle/random play.

Music systems do not seem to have the concept of movements or keeping certain tracks together during random play.  The only way to overcome this as far as I know is to combine those tracks/files into one physical unit.  But doing so loses the ability to jump to a different movement or track.

Will this new feature in MC 20 solve this problem for classical music listeners?

Thank you!
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Re: NEW: Linking Songs
« Reply #20 on: July 31, 2014, 05:40:50 pm »

Can the link tracks feature be automatic based on the album?  In another word, is there an option to set so all tracks in a single album will be linked and played sequentially as one unit? 
That's an excellent idea.
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jmone

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Re: NEW: Linking Songs
« Reply #21 on: July 31, 2014, 06:10:30 pm »

Particles linked within the same video file cause the file to be reopened and the cover art to flash on the screen. Is there a way for links to jump around in a video file smoothly?

There was some discussion on keeping the filter chain open for progressive particle playback to prevent this.  At present, the filter chain is destroyed then created for each particle (or file for that matter).  Matt at the time suggested that it would require JR to write their own source filter (from memory).  

The other thing that occurs to me in this use case, is you could link all the particles as you have done then use the "Convert" format to produce one file with the adds removed.  To work properly, MC would need to allow:
- Linked files to sent as a group to the converter and ideally
- a conversion preset that just lets you remux the content (as opposed to re-encoding as it does now).
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Gork

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Re: NEW: Linking Songs
« Reply #22 on: July 31, 2014, 10:50:02 pm »

I have been asking for this feature for years.  YEARS!  Over and over again...  I am ECSTATIC that this feature is being added!  Done.  MC20 preordered.  :)
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Magic_Randy

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Re: NEW: Linking Songs
« Reply #23 on: August 01, 2014, 09:58:04 am »

Cool feature. Thanks...
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bv1pacb

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Re: NEW: Linking Songs
« Reply #24 on: August 01, 2014, 11:06:06 am »

Music systems do not seem to have the concept of movements or keeping certain tracks together during random play.  The only way to overcome this as far as I know is to combine those tracks/files into one physical unit.  But doing so loses the ability to jump to a different movement or track.

The CD Red Book spec is designed to deal with this by using Index points, the next level down, after Track, in the data structure hierarchy.  So a 4-part symphony can be a single track that will play straight through, but with four selectable Index points.   Unfortunately, aside from pro machines, few players have user-selectable points, and, in my experience, relatively few CDs have been issued this way.
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erickrarick

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Re: NEW: Linking Songs
« Reply #25 on: August 01, 2014, 01:32:17 pm »

This is great for Symphonies, Sonatas, etc that are tracked in to 3-4 movements and AMAZING for Opera and Oratoio that are 20+ tracks.  Thanks!
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aaronsama

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Re: NEW: Linking Songs
« Reply #26 on: August 02, 2014, 06:45:12 am »

That's too bad.  Hopefully this can be improved since many 2nd tracks will get selected by smartlists.

Wholeheartedly agree. This feature has potential to be a huge boon to classical music listeners, but not if implemented as described. Ideally when linking tracks it would create two fields: a unique id for the link series, and a sequence number (like a mini playlist). Then when creating smartlists for linked tracks, it would be trivial to ensure that they exclude any track with link sequence number > 1. This would ensure that if a symphony, or a set of variations, etc. end up in the smartlist, the listener gets to hear the entire work.
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JustinChase

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Re: NEW: Linking Songs
« Reply #27 on: August 02, 2014, 09:14:54 am »

Wholeheartedly agree. This feature has potential to be a huge boon to classical music listeners, but not if implemented as described. Ideally when linking tracks it would create two fields: a unique id for the link series, and a sequence number (like a mini playlist). Then when creating smartlists for linked tracks, it would be trivial to ensure that they exclude any track with link sequence number > 1. This would ensure that if a symphony, or a set of variations, etc. end up in the smartlist, the listener gets to hear the entire work.

I suggested elsewhere that it have 2 fields, but they would be linked from and linked to (call them whatever you want), but that each track it marked with what must come after it, and what must come before it.  This would be easy to do with the current system, it just needs another field.

Also, I would prefer to have a smartlist not reject a sequence greater than 1, but instead, add any/all tracks that are 'must come before' tracks that the smartlist selects.
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RedJ

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Re: NEW: Linking Songs
« Reply #28 on: August 03, 2014, 02:38:53 pm »

 :D YAY! Been wanting this feature for years.
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Doof

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Re: NEW: Linking Songs
« Reply #29 on: August 13, 2014, 04:04:14 pm »

lol... I got 75% through writing a plugin to do exactly this years ago and just never got around to finishing it. Now I won't ever have to. :D
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Matt

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Re: NEW: Linking Songs
« Reply #30 on: August 13, 2014, 04:05:25 pm »

lol... I got 75% through writing a plugin to do exactly this years ago and just never got around to finishing it. Now I won't ever have to. :D

Yeah, we'd been waiting for your plugin for years but finally gave up and added the feature ourselves ;D
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Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

sskings

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Re: NEW: Linking Songs --->gapless
« Reply #31 on: August 14, 2014, 08:26:35 am »

Can this wonderful new feature be tweaked to make the playback gapless?  MC would convert the list of tracks to a single gapless track that could be sent across DLNA for gapless playback to any renderer. 

Since the vast majority of renderers do not handle the protocols for gapless playback, this would be a much appreciated feature for JRiver.  There has been lots of requests for this on the forum over several years...would be good to get it done now IMHO.

Have reupped and would love to see this as a part of the v20 improvements.  Steve
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GadgetBoy

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Re:
« Reply #32 on: August 14, 2014, 10:58:52 pm »

Eruption -> You Really Got Me

Van Ha!en
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Anodyne

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Re: NEW: Linking Songs
« Reply #33 on: August 19, 2014, 08:24:14 pm »

The Shins: Pam Berry -> Phantom Limb
 :)
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MapleTenor

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Re: NEW: Linking Songs
« Reply #34 on: August 20, 2014, 07:28:12 am »

Especially for classical music, this is a more than welcome new feature (which 'll convince some of my friends of using MC)

I'd expect the following to happen: when selecting e.g. the adagio from a suite, all of the linked tracks of that suite (e.g. 1. ouverture, 2. andante, 3. Adagio, 4. preste, 5. finale) would be selected (in that order, as already mentioned by Matt on July 23rd and aaronsama on August 2nd).

Certainly if one is able to set that out as a criterion for a playlist (which would then only select entire musical compositions)

On the other hand, you might want to have the choice, even if the tracks (sorry, I'm still in CD mode ;-) are linked, to play them separately as well, both manually and in a playlist, hence a 'take linking into account'-flag (or 'play whole compositions' whatever you'd call it) for the playlist

Do you think that could be done ?  Looking forward to see it implemented and very happy to test it as soon as MC20 's there

Kind regards,
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gappie

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Re: NEW: Linking Songs
« Reply #35 on: August 22, 2014, 05:48:07 am »

this does not work with Radio? or only when the first file is picked?

I linked stolen moments with murder by numbers from zappa. and radio picked murder by numbers without stolen moments..

 :)
gab
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Matt

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Re: NEW: Linking Songs
« Reply #36 on: August 22, 2014, 07:51:06 am »

this does not work with Radio? or only when the first file is picked?

I linked stolen moments with murder by numbers from zappa. and radio picked murder by numbers without stolen moments..

Only regular playback honors links.  Radio, smartlists, etc. do not.
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gappie

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Re: NEW: Linking Songs
« Reply #37 on: August 22, 2014, 09:56:51 am »

Only regular playback honors links.  Radio, smartlists, etc. do not.
:( hmmm that is a pity. so its not 'always'. I would really love it when it would work there too..

 :)
gab
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Humbledore

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Re: NEW: Linking Songs
« Reply #38 on: August 25, 2014, 08:27:00 am »

Hi,
If I link tracks, how does it show up in the library? I noticed that a number has been added to the Link field of the first linked track. Is there any more 'distinct' way to identify that a link has been established?
Thanks!
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6233638

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Re: NEW: Linking Songs
« Reply #39 on: August 25, 2014, 08:50:07 am »

:( hmmm that is a pity. so its not 'always'. I would really love it when it would work there too..
I thought the whole point of linking tracks was specifically so that random playback wouldn't play one half of a "song" that belongs together.
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JustinChase

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Re: NEW: Linking Songs
« Reply #40 on: August 25, 2014, 10:31:51 am »

I thought the whole point of linking tracks was specifically so that random playback wouldn't play one half of a "song" that belongs together.

Yeah, me too.  I'm hoping this can still be 'fixed'.  It doesn't make much sense to only play part of a 'song' sometimes, and all of it other times.

Still early days in MC 20 :)
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Matt

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Re: NEW: Linking Songs
« Reply #41 on: August 25, 2014, 10:34:37 am »

Yeah, me too.  I'm hoping this can still be 'fixed'.  It doesn't make much sense to only play part of a 'song' sometimes, and all of it other times.

Still early days in MC 20 :)

Links will be preserved through a shuffle in the next build.
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gappie

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Re: NEW: Linking Songs
« Reply #42 on: August 25, 2014, 02:39:46 pm »

I thought the whole point of linking tracks was specifically so that random playback wouldn't play one half of a "song" that belongs together.
I thought too... a well, I thought this was a real great new feature. luckily I did not go through my whole lib to link.

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gappie

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Re: NEW: Linking Songs
« Reply #43 on: August 25, 2014, 02:42:24 pm »

Links will be preserved through a shuffle in the next build.
I guess you mean shuffle as in, when both are in playing now, and you click shuffle, they stay together. not adding shuffle to a smartlist would keep them 'always' together.

 :)
gab
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AoXoMoXoA

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Re: NEW: Linking Songs
« Reply #44 on: August 25, 2014, 03:28:06 pm »

Can this feature be setup to auto-link all songs in an album based on tags or folder structure so I can tell MC to link all songs in their albums for my entire library and have it process in the background or upon access?

I play only full albums and would like my library linked by album without having to do this manually.
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jctcom

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Re: NEW: Linking Songs
« Reply #45 on: August 26, 2014, 11:54:28 pm »

This is a great new addition guys.  I also love the "Add after current Album" and "Add after current Artist".

Hopefully the link tracks option can be fixed so that the linked tracks are all played together no matter which track in the chain gets selected by a smartlist.  If the second or third track get selected they should all be played in order just as if the first track had been selected.

Thanks for the great work though!   (And thanks a lot for listening to your users requests!).

Carl.

Oh by the way....

Supertramp: School > Bloody Well Right  should always be played together!

Styx:  Prelude 12 > Suite Madame Blue.

Magellan: 100 year Flood - The Gread Goodnight is one 13 Track song!

Explorer's Club: Raising The Mammoth album actually has 4 songs but there are 44 tracks!

These are just a few of probably 100s that will be in my list.   

ypslon

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Linking Songs
« Reply #46 on: August 27, 2014, 12:17:16 am »

I can't link anything. All my music allows me to Break Track Links and nothing happens!
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jctcom

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Re: Linking Songs
« Reply #47 on: August 27, 2014, 12:46:28 am »

I can't link anything. All my music allows me to Break Track Links and nothing happens!

Are you saying the "Link Tracks" is greyed out  (Dimmed)?

Should be under  Right click on track > Library Tools> 

Then pretty much in the middle of the resulting menu.

Carl.

Alobar

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Re: NEW: Linking Songs
« Reply #48 on: August 27, 2014, 07:48:54 am »

This is a great new addition guys.  I also love the "Add after current Album" and "Add after current Artist".

Hopefully the link tracks option can be fixed so that the linked tracks are all played together no matter which track in the chain gets selected by a smartlist.  If the second or third track get selected they should all be played in order just as if the first track had been selected.

Thanks for the great work though!   (And thanks a lot for listening to your users requests!).

Carl.

Oh by the way....

Supertramp: School > Bloody Well Right  should always be played together!

Styx:  Prelude 12 > Suite Madame Blue.

Magellan: 100 year Flood - The Gread Goodnight is one 13 Track song!

Explorer's Club: Raising The Mammoth album actually has 4 songs but there are 44 tracks!

These are just a few of probably 100s that will be in my list.  

Since MC20 is the first version that will incorporate linked songs I expect future improvements to this feature from JRiver will be developed.
As for music that just doesn't sound right, the entire b side of the Beatles Abby Road simply must be played in order! In an earlier version of ITunes there was a way to permanently link the songs together when ripping them to disc. When done the "song" had a long title which was all the individual songs linked with their titles separated with a comma. The new combined song time length was listed as the total linked compilation time and for all purposes the individual songs didn't exist, only the total combination and thus there wasn't any possibility of  only one of the songs inadvertently being played out of order such as in a playlist etc. I have not been able to find this feature on the newer iTunes so I presume they axed it in order to dumb it down to make the software easier to use. To me Apple got it right when they hit on this method of permanent linking and preserving the proper order at the time the music is being ripped.  I feel it is the best of all possible ways to do linking and I hope future JRiver versions will have this way as an option.
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maliceme

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Re: NEW: Linking Songs
« Reply #49 on: August 28, 2014, 08:03:47 pm »

As long as we're discussing possible future directions for this feature:

It would be great to set options for, e.g., "always link", "link up only", "link down only".

As an example, let's say I always want to hear the three movements of a concerto played together. All three tracks would use the "always link" option. The same with Brain Damage/Eclipse.
I don't mind hearing "Breathe" by itself, but I don't want to hear "Speak to Me" without first hearing "Breathe". So, Speak to Me uses "always link" and Breathe uses "link up only".
I suspect there are cases where one would be okay with Song 1 by itself, but not want to hear Song 2 without Song 1. In that case, Song 2 would "link down".
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