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[whataboutbob1]

Hi,

Does this version of MC or will the MC 20 have the capabilities to "up-sample" to dsd? I have a newer SONY product (HAP-Z1ES) that stores all music internally via 2 TB of internal storage. If the file is not already a dsd speed type file it has the option to convert it through up-sampling. And yes, I do realize you can not get a better sound/higher resolution from a file than it was originally recorded at. In other words if it was recorded at CD redbook all the up-sampling in the world can not make it sound better than CD redbook. And I have experienced it first hand when listening to older recordings that have been re-released in the SACD format. So I can't explain why SOME of the SACD's sound better than the CD redbook counterparts.  But for the most part I have stayed true to the belief that up-sampling is not a help.

BUT..... this new SONY product (HAP-Z1ES) really appears to make MOST recordings sound better when played in the up-sample mode. If may not be understanding what I have read about the product but if I do the way SONY does this is by "filling in the blanks". The "filter" they use fills in the blank spots in between bits by using some type of an algorithm to determine what should fit in between each bit.  So if I am understanding it correctly it seems like this is more than just up-sampling? I also realize the completed output to my stereo gear might not be considered an exact copy of the original because it would be "adding" to the recording.

Hence my question, does MC 19 or MC 20 offer anything similar for my less than DSD files?

Bob

[ferday]

i'm not sure how to answer....

first, SACD (and pure audio/true audio) often sound better, because they use different mastering!  this is the only real reason to acquire HD music (that you already own on CD or LP) is the  chance to get a better sounding, less compressed master

second, as to your sony player....it gets great reviews and apparently their DSEE (enhancement feature) works really well.  however, what it is doing is a combination of "smart guessing" and DSP effects like compression to change (hopefully enhance) the sound.  It CANNOT add "real" information that wasn't there in the first place.  if you like the sound, then awesome! 

JRiver doesn't currently do this (enhancement engine) automatically, which personally i'm happy with.  in fact i wish no companies were doing this, as it doesn't give very much incentive to create good mastering on the recording in the first place...

[6233638]

Enable DSD Encoding in the Output Format section of DSP Studio.

[whataboutbob1]

I am not seeing "DSD Encoding". I see some settings for DSD but I thought those are for playing actual DSD files. Do I have that wrong?

The settings I see are: DSD in DoP, 2xDSD in DoP,  2xDSD in native format, and Dolby Digital.

I am looking for a setting that "enhances" or "up-samples" non DSD files to a DSD resolution level.

Thanks,

Bob

PS - In playing with that section I think I accidentally pressed the "play files from memory instead of disc" or is that the default and I just never noticed it was checked?

[6233638]

I am not seeing "DSD Encoding". I see some settings for DSD but I thought those are for playing actual DSD files. Do I have that wrong?

The settings I see are: DSD in DoP, 2xDSD in DoP,  2xDSD in native format, and Dolby Digital.

Output Encoding set to DSD will upsample everything to DSD.

[whataboutbob1]

Hi,

When I set the encoding to either DSD in DoP, 2xDSD in DoP,  2xDSD in native format, my DAC registers it is receioving a DSD signal with up to a 5.6 speed (when in 2xDSD). But the sound is choppy (cuts in and out quickly, almost like a CD when skipping). I tried it with and without using the DSD setting in bitsteaming settings below the encoding settings in that same options "box". I usually have it set at DSD so it will play my DSD files.

I did notice in "advanced settings" under the "tools" heading there is a conversion feature where you can choose to convert a file to a DSD file. Is that possible?

[JimH]

It could be not keeping up because of lack of CPU power.

[whataboutbob1]

I guess that depends on if it takes a lot more CPU power than it does to play DSD files themselves. It plays DSD files without incident.

Bob

[BryanC]

I guess that depends on if it takes a lot more CPU power than it does to play DSD files themselves. It plays DSD files without incident.

Bob

Yes. Real-time DSD encoding is intensive.

[whataboutbob1]

OK. That may answer that.  But what does the conversion to a DSD file do to a track. I did try it with one CD and it did provide the original AIFF file plus a new set of tracks listed as DSD files. It took a while for the conversion.  But it plays both tracks.

So what does the conversion do? Would it be the same as "upsampling"?

Bob

[Matt]

So what does the conversion do? Would it be the same as "upsampling"?

It makes a DSD from the PCM.  This resamples to 2.8 MHz (or 5.6 if you use 2x).  It also converts the audio to one-bit.  It's just a different animal than PCM.

[BryanC]

So what does the conversion do? Would it be the same as "upsampling"?

Sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words.

[whataboutbob1]

It looks like the conversion can only be done for DSD and not DSDX2. My question as to what it does to the file is more along audio quality. SO let me word it this way:

Would converting a file through the "convert format" feature be the same as using the "DSD in DoP format" feature in the "DSP Studio" box located in the "options" selection in the drop down menue of "tools"? (except for the change being an actual file needing to be created as opposed to a one time listen)  And I am assuming that if all files were converted to DSD the storage requirement would be much higher.

Bob

[BryanC]

It looks like the conversion can only be done for DSD and not DSDX2. My question as to what it does to the file is more along audio quality. SO let me word it this way:

Would converting a file through the "convert format" feature be the same as using the "DSD in DoP format" feature in the "DSP Studio" box located in the "options" selection in the drop down menue of "tools"? (except for the change being an actual file needing to be created as opposed to a one time listen)  And I am assuming that if all files were converted to DSD the storage requirement would be much higher.

Bob

What are the purposes of doing this? You can't get 'something from nothing' so to say.

[mwillems]

The consensus I've seen among folks who have actually measured the results of such conversions is that the process introduces distortion that is perceived by some as euphonic, which is to say that the conversion adds "something" which is unrelated to the original music, but that sounds good to some listeners.

For a nice article with measurements of the changes (using JRiver's upsampling engine no less!), see http://archimago.blogspot.com/2013/09/measurements-pcm-to-dsd-upsampling.html

From the conclusions:

[...]Objectively the DSD conversion adds distortion but the anomalies are not perceived as objectionable and in some material, the added noise and imprecision actually makes it sound less "sterile", "clinical", more "real" (conversely being in an anechoic chamber is disturbingly unreal due to the profound silence).

For my own part, I offer no opinion on the desirability of deliberately adding distortion to music.

[whataboutbob1]

What are the purposes of doing this? You can't get 'something from nothing' so to say.

I was trying to determine if I should do this. To determine if there is sonic value to it. I am not sure if I am going to do this at all. But when I came across the feature I was assuming if MC took the time to create IT AND INSTALL IT IN THE SYSTEM THERE WOULD BE A GOOD REASON TO SO. SO IF IT WAS DESIGNED TO IMPROVE THE SOUND QUALITY I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE A GOOD THING. (SORRY ACCIDENTALLY HIT CAP LOCK)

I guess I will try a few files and see if there is a positive effect.

Bob

[whataboutbob1]

The consensus I've seen among folks who have actually measured the results of such conversions is that the process introduces distortion that is perceived by some as euphonic, which is to say that the conversion adds "something" which is unrelated to the original music, but that sounds good to some listeners.

For a nice article with measurements of the changes (using JRiver's upsampling engine no less!), see http://archimago.blogspot.com/2013/09/measurements-pcm-to-dsd-upsampling.html

From the conclusions:
For my own part, I offer no opinion on the desirability of deliberately adding distortion to music.

I will read the article.  Thank you for the help.

[whataboutbob1]

What are the purposes of doing this? You can't get 'something from nothing' so to say.

And thank you for the help.

Bob