Topic: MC 20.0.87 Crashing on Mac Mini with OS 10.10.2 Yosemite (Read 10048 times)

tuneup · « **on:** April 04, 2015, 03:31:19 am »

MC 20.0.87 is even less stable than 20.0.80 and is crashing on a new Mac Mini, sometimes every few hours. The Mac is dedicated to a music server and isn't being used for any other purpose. The Apple crash reports are about the same as the ones I was getting with 20.0.80. I've gotten no responses to my previous similar post on 20.0.80. Is anybody listening?

JimH · « **Reply #1 on:** April 04, 2015, 07:04:27 am »

Can you link the problem to a web page you visit?

tuneup · « **Reply #2 on:** April 04, 2015, 01:58:42 pm »

Thanks for replying Jim. The Mac mini is a music server only. The only web page I ever visit is this forum, dBpoweramp forum or Mac help pages. Usually I keep Safari and mail programs off, unless I am sending a post or reply.

Bel Canto, whose renderer I am using, suggested Sonos might be causing problems, so I have turned it off and disconnected it from the network. I don't see how Sonos can cause MC 20 to crash, but there is another issue that it might be relevant to, but I will discuss that in another post I am going to add on a different (JRemote) crash topic.

targa02 · « **Reply #3 on:** April 04, 2015, 04:17:27 pm »

I am having same problem. JRiver version 20.0.87 crashes almost immediately after launch. I am using a mac mini, only as music server. It is version 10.6.8.

Is there someone's cage at jriver we can rattle?

tuneup · « **Reply #4 on:** April 04, 2015, 04:45:48 pm »

targa02, I believe the biggest cage to rattle is JimH and he has responded above. I hope this conversation continues until the problem is resolved.

Awesome Donkey · « **Reply #5 on:** April 04, 2015, 04:46:55 pm »

You might consider updating the Mac Mini to 10.10, just in case its an issue with older OS X builds.

Something else I'd try, assuming you can get into JRiver's options before it crashes, is going into the options (Tools menu > Options) then going to the General section, expand Features by clicking on the > next to the name and unchecking EVERY feature from the list except media network then closing and re-opening Media Center. If it still crashes, uncheck media network and try again. If Media Center doesn't crash with media network enabled, you can try narrowing down which feature(s) may be causing the crashes by re-enabling each feature one-by-one then exiting/re-opening Media Center each time. If a feature is causing these crashes, it needs to be narrowed down and reported ASAP.

blgentry · « **Reply #6 on:** April 04, 2015, 06:27:13 pm »

^ While I normally agree with the Donkey, I'd be careful of 10.10. It's got all manner of reported issues. The biggest one for *me* is that it's really designed for systems that have two things: Retina displays and SSD boot drives. Without those things, I hear it's both slow and ugly to some extent.

I'd go to 10.9 if you can. That's what I did recently. Though I had no real issues at all with Media Center on 10.7, and still none on 10.9.

Brian.

tuneup · « **Reply #7 on:** April 04, 2015, 06:58:07 pm »

Thank you Donkey. I will try working with the feature set. It appears from your list at the bottom of your post that you are using MC 20.0.87 on Yosemite with no problem?

Blgentry, I can't go backwards to 10.9 and the Mini is fast. The only problem is .87 crashing.

Awesome Donkey · « **Reply #8 on:** April 04, 2015, 08:57:19 pm »

Quote from: tuneup on April 04, 2015, 06:58:07 pm

Thank you Donkey. I will try working with the feature set. It appears from your list at the bottom of your post that you are using MC 20.0.87 on Yosemite with no problem?

Correct. But I have all features disabled except media network, hence why I suggested it as a starting point.

tuneup · « **Reply #9 on:** April 05, 2015, 01:21:47 am »

Every feature was checked except for 2 items, so I removed all check marks except media network. I restarted it and restarted JRemote (new iPad Air dedicated to this server and not loaded down with apps). JRemote is still having the problem I posted separately. It does not communicate with MC20, but starts playing music on the Mini player instead of my renderer even though the renderer is selected in JRiver. I should still be able to see if MC20 is stable, regardless of JRemote, but I still don't have a useable system without JRemote.

Can you possibly get Robert at JRemote to respond to my post in the Remotes section on the above problem?

I am building 2 identical systems, one for a client and one for myself. He is even less computer savvy than I am so the system will have to be rock solid. The idea is that he will never have to touch the Mini (I am not supplying monitor, keyboard or mouse) once I install the system and it will be 2 rooms removed from his sound system. Is this realistic? Or do you think I should I switch the Mini out for a Dell laptop with the PC version of JRiver, so that if anything crashes, I can do tech support with him on the phone?

Can you tell me how to create a footnote like yours so I can list system details and not have to repeat them in various posts?

Thanks again. I will keep you posted on results.

JimH · « **Reply #10 on:** April 05, 2015, 07:25:28 am »

Quote from: tuneup on April 05, 2015, 01:21:47 am

JRemote is still having the problem I posted separately. It does not communicate with MC20, but starts playing music on the Mini player instead of my renderer even though the renderer is selected in JRiver. I should still be able to see if MC20 is stable, regardless of JRemote, but I still don't have a useable system without JRemote.

Select the Renderer in JRemote.

If you haven't done so, please read the DLNA topic on our wiki.

tuneup · « **Reply #11 on:** April 05, 2015, 02:49:21 pm »

Thank you JimH! I saw Arendelle's post with the same solution at the Remotes forum, to which I responded:

Arindelle, you da man! Nobody told me I had to select the renderer in both JRiver and JRemote! The renderer manual only said to choose the renderer as player in JRiver, but not in JRemote. I never changed it manually from the Zones list - I suspect it may have done this itself during one of the MC20 crashes. And I must say, at the risk of being politically incorrect and with the intention of giving constructive feedback, that it is not best practices in GUI design to call the same item/function "Now Playing" in JRiver and "Zones" in JRemote. They should both have the same name if in fact they have the same function. (If I am wrong about them having the same function, even in part, let me know.) It is also best to put them in the same place on the display, at least approximately, whereas Now Playing is at the upper left and Zones is at the lower left.

You have made my day! Happy Easter, Passover or whatever suits you!

tuneup · « **Reply #12 on:** April 06, 2015, 05:15:07 pm »

Hello Donkey and JimH, MC 20 crashed again after about 12 hours with only Media Network feature being checked. No other apps were running.

See crash report at http://postimg.org/image/5lu93mc8v/

I have noticed that it never crashes when playing music, but only after some hours of not playing music, typically in the middle of the night.

I am using a Synology 214play, but have never opened their server app, so I don't think there would be a conflict. Bel Canto suggested turning off Sonos equipment, but that doesn't seem to me likely to prevent a crash within the Mac, especially when JRiver isn't playing music.

What else should I try? Are there any settings in the Mac you want me to look at?

mwheelerk · « **Reply #13 on:** April 06, 2015, 10:51:06 pm »

Quote from: blgentry on April 04, 2015, 06:27:13 pm

^ While I normally agree with the Donkey, I'd be careful of 10.10. It's got all manner of reported issues. The biggest one for *me* is that it's really designed for systems that have two things: Retina displays and SSD boot drives. Without those things, I hear it's both slow and ugly to some extent.

I'd go to 10.9 if you can. That's what I did recently. Though I had no real issues at all with Media Center on 10.7, and still none on 10.9.

Brian.

Brian my experiences on a Mac Mini without retina display attached and without SSD and MacBook without retina do not mirror your comments. I see no issues surrounding 10.10 with speed and I am unsure what the description of ugly means. If you have personally experienced these specific issues you mentioned then your comments are fair.

tuneup · « **Reply #14 on:** April 07, 2015, 07:21:30 pm »

MC 20 just crashed again, with all Sonos gear, including remote controls which communicate by wi-fi, turned off. So my assumption was correct and I will turn Sonos on again.

I called Apple Care again today and elevated this to 2nd tier. That tech had me create a test user on the Mini and run MC20 there, as he wants to see if it crashes the same way for another user on the same Mini.

If I take screen shots of the many pages of a Mac crash report and upload it for viewing, will your Mac programmer look at it to try to figure out what the problem is?

blgentry · « **Reply #15 on:** April 07, 2015, 08:21:55 pm »

Quote from: mwheelerk on April 06, 2015, 10:51:06 pm

Brian my experiences on a Mac Mini without retina display attached and without SSD and MacBook without retina do not mirror your comments. I see no issues surrounding 10.10 with speed and I am unsure what the description of ugly means. If you have personally experienced these specific issues you mentioned then your comments are fair.

Ok, some of my comments are about reported problems: There are known Wifi issues and a few other buggy kind of behaviors. The bigger issues I've heard of are just that: Things I've been told by other people. I haven't installed 10.10 on my system because it's old enough (early 2011) that I was advised that 10.10 might run poorly on it. The mac guys I talked to said that the look and feel of 10.10 were designed for retina and that it looked wrong or "ugly" on non-retina hardware. Obviously aesthetics are a matter of opinion.

The same group told me that 10.10 is demanding enough that they felt like it was designed for systems based on SSDs and that performance was sub-par on systems with regular hard drives. I probably should have qualified my earlier statements. Now you know what I should have said before: I haven't personally run 10.10 on my system.

I'm glad it's working well for you and others. I was just trying to share some caution.

Brian.

wouterk · « **Reply #16 on:** April 08, 2015, 06:13:59 am »

Have you tried Disk utility -> repair permissions? (Always a good start)

tuneup · « **Reply #17 on:** April 08, 2015, 01:48:19 pm »

Yes, thanks wouterk. I'm already at Tier 2 with Apple Care on this. They've dug deeply and checked out all kinds of things. The drive was so clean that Disk Repair didn't show up, only Disk Verification and it passed this test as verified.

paul.raulerson · « **Reply #18 on:** April 08, 2015, 02:06:34 pm »

Did you boot into a recovery partition and then run disk tools? You cannot really repair a disk you are booted from.

Hold down Command-R when the machine starts to boot, and then select Disk Tools from the options.

Yours,
-Paul

Awesome Donkey · « **Reply #19 on:** April 08, 2015, 02:15:00 pm »

FYI, the OS X 10.10.3 update came out today.

tuneup · « **Reply #20 on:** April 08, 2015, 04:31:21 pm »

Yes Donkey, but I am on hold for Apple Care Tier 2 to see if they want to continue on yesterday's path before I upgrade to .3.

tuneup · « **Reply #21 on:** April 08, 2015, 04:33:48 pm »

Thanks Paul. If Cmd-R is safe mode, then Apple Care had me do that already. Let me know if it is something different though.

tuneup · « **Reply #22 on:** April 08, 2015, 04:53:50 pm »

Apple Tier 2 said go ahead with .3 update. I also had the idea that there might be some conflict with Synology 214Play NAS so if MC 20 isn't stable with 10.10.3, I will disconnect NAS and serve music directly from the Mini.

glynor · « **Reply #23 on:** April 08, 2015, 09:05:08 pm »

For the record, I have MC20 on both my Macbook Pro (a 2011 Sandy Bridge) and my Mac Mini (late 2012 Ivy Bridge), both running on 10.10, and I'm having no serious problems (certainly no regular crashing).

Anyone who has crashes, it would be most useful if you post the Log ZIP file generated immediately after a crash, as described in the Troubleshooting Guide:
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Troubleshooting_Guide

Thanks.

tuneup · « **Reply #24 on:** April 09, 2015, 03:59:17 am »

Thanks glynor. I just turned on logging. If anything, 10.10.3 made MC 20 less stable, as it crashed twice within an hour. I have turned off the Synology NAS and disconnected it from the network. But I can't connect MC 20 to the music files stored in the Mini. I will deal with that tomorrow. I usually get a crash overnight with the NAS running. If I don't get one tonight, I will reconnect the NAS and wait for a crash to generate an error log. In the end, I have to make the system work with the NAS because of the large libraries I am dealing with.

tuneup · « **Reply #25 on:** April 09, 2015, 04:10:40 am »

After I turned on logging, I noticed than when MC 20 rebooted after the last crash that the Bel Canto renderer wasn't selected in Now Playing. I clicked on it and MC 20 immediately crashed. This has never happened before. I've attached the log.

tuneup · « **Reply #26 on:** April 09, 2015, 08:07:37 pm »

Glynor, I just had the typical MC 20.0.87 crash on OS 10.10.3 where I get the Mac crash report. I am attaching the log.

tuneup · « **Reply #27 on:** April 09, 2015, 08:09:57 pm »

P.S. This most recent crash occurred while playing music, which is the first time I can be sure that was occurring.

tuneup · « **Reply #28 on:** April 09, 2015, 11:44:38 pm »

2nd crash of the usual type today. I've attached log.

tuneup · « **Reply #29 on:** April 11, 2015, 03:25:29 am »

This is th 3rd time I am trying to submit log on another crash. I've been getting error messages saying I already submitted the post, but the posts are not appearing at the forum. Uploading refused the log as being too large and postimage.org also rejected it. I am unzipping it and attaching only the current portions of it.

tuneup · « **Reply #30 on:** April 11, 2015, 01:13:43 pm »

One more crash. Log attached.

tuneup · « **Reply #31 on:** April 11, 2015, 09:09:25 pm »

Another crash. Log attached.

glynor · « **Reply #32 on:** April 12, 2015, 06:18:40 pm »

Thanks for the logs.

The individual ones we really can't use very well. The ZIP file is what we need, in particular if it is large (because then it probably contains the crash dump). If it is too big to attach to a post here, the best thing is to use something like DropBox or WikiSend (which is free and doesn't require an account) to make a link to the file.

glynor · « **Reply #33 on:** April 12, 2015, 06:19:29 pm »

Unfortunately, none of them above contain the crash dump.

paul.raulerson · « **Reply #34 on:** April 12, 2015, 08:53:25 pm »

Just a suggestion, it woukd be a really good idea to include a mechanism for MC itself to report these crashes. It is a full fledged PITA to report these things, and even more frustrating when occasionally met by polite disbelief.

Require user approval to send them if you wish, but it really is insane to have to attach a crash report via dropbox or wikiwhatever.

tuneup · « **Reply #35 on:** April 13, 2015, 01:40:23 pm »

Glynor, let me know if there are enough crash dumps here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/d6scmxbizaid5yr/AADTxeKTzQ05rtu_2awOwi_Fa?dl=0 .

tuneup · « **Reply #36 on:** April 13, 2015, 01:49:32 pm »

Glynor, here is today's first crash report: https://www.dropbox.com/s/qhauz3vpcmnqb9r/JRiver%20Log%202015-04-13%2011-42-36.zip?dl=0 .

glynor · « **Reply #37 on:** April 13, 2015, 06:01:39 pm »

Unfortunately, none of those did include one, and none of the logs I checked actually show a crash. Can you describe a bit more about your system? What, exactly, is your playback device(s) and how are you using it? Also, when MC crashes, does it actually crash, or just lock up and you manually Force Quit on it?

glynor · « **Reply #38 on:** April 13, 2015, 06:06:36 pm »

Quote from: paul.raulerson on April 12, 2015, 08:53:25 pm

even more frustrating when occasionally met by polite disbelief.

I don't disbelieve in any way. Without a good log of the crash though, there's little I can do to help diagnose the issue. More information would almost certainly help, including a detailed description of steps tried (all in one place). For example, there are suggestions on the wiki article linked above like:

Quote

Try to look for, and then report, specific circumstances when the issue does and does not occur. Some examples of things to test are:

Does it only happen during Playback, when you are switching between Media Views, or when MC is sitting idle?
If it only happens during Playback, does it only happen with particular types of files?
Does it only happen if the source files are on a Network volume? If you move the files to the system drive, do they work properly?
If it happens at idle, try disabling Auto-Import in the background and see if this makes the problems stop.
If you are using Media Network features, does it only happen on the Client, or the Server, or both?
Are Thumbnails building or any other processes running in the background?

And, a detailed description of the audio chain and setup being used.

tuneup · « **Reply #39 on:** April 14, 2015, 07:39:43 pm »

The Apple crash report is always titled "Media Center quit unexpectedly." MC 20 is no longer on the screen and the Apple report has a REOPEN button on it. When I click on that button, MC 20 reopens and the Apple crash report leaves the screen and sends itself to Apple. I sent a note to Apple Tier 2 tech support asking if they can tell me if MC 20 is quitting on its own or if the Mini is shutting it down. Haven't heard back yet.

Playback device is a Bel Canto REFStream renderer on the 2nd floor of my home. See http://www.belcantodesign.com/eOne/products/computer-audio/refstream-asynchronous-ethernet-renderer/ . The rendered is connected to a Bel Canto DAC3.5VB MK II via SPDIF coaxial cable. The renderer is connected to a Pakedge 8-port switch with a 7 ft. CAT6 cable. That switch connects to a Netgear WNDR3700 router on the 1st floor of my home with about 50 feet of CAT5e cable. That router is connected to a Pakedge 20-port switch with a 3 ft. CAT6 cable. The Mac Mini and the Synology 214play are both connected to that switch with 14 ft. CAT6 cables.

Control is by JRemote on an iPad Air. It connects to the network via a Ruckus 7942 access point connected to the same switch as the renderer with a 3 ft. CAT6 cable.

Is there anything else you want to know glynor?

tuneup · « **Reply #40 on:** April 14, 2015, 11:01:34 pm »

Glynor, I did want to try running the files on the Mini instead of the NAS, but have run into error messages. I will discuss this in detail in a future post. Meanwhile I have placed another log in dropbox, just in case it has a crash report.See https://www.dropbox.com/s/o2tostprw8fsbsd/JRiver%20Log%202015-04-14%2017-47-41.zip?dl=0 .

glynor · « **Reply #41 on:** April 15, 2015, 07:05:46 am »

That does help. Thanks.

Quote from: tuneup on April 14, 2015, 07:39:43 pm

The Apple crash report is always titled "Media Center quit unexpectedly."

Then, that is a crash. I just wanted to make sure.

Quote from: tuneup on April 14, 2015, 07:39:43 pm

Playback device is a Bel Canto REFStream renderer on the 2nd floor of my home. See http://www.belcantodesign.com/eOne/products/computer-audio/refstream-asynchronous-ethernet-renderer/

Your audio device is a DLNA renderer, which is a quite different setup than having a local audio output (a USB DAC or something). The issue almost certainly lies there (whether it is something happening with the Bel Canto REFStream, with your network, or something broken in MC, I can't say for sure).

But, that gives us a place to look. Have you contacted Bel Canto to ask them for help? They should be able to easily test their device with the current Mac build of MC and see if they can reproduce the issue.

If you play back to another audio device on your Mini (the onboard audio output, for example) does playback work reliably then?

tuneup · « **Reply #42 on:** April 15, 2015, 12:35:51 pm »

Many emails with head of Bel Canto. Unfortunately, he is using an older Mini, which is pre-Yosemite, and not using a NAS. They have sold maybe 25 - 30 REFStreams (mine are #25 & #26 and he says they've only had one other customer complain. His problem turned out to be a network issue. My network is very strong as far as wired and wireless computers go, as well as a Sonos system spread throughout 2 floors of a 2500 sq. ft. home, but I suppose that doesn't necessarily mean it is good for this complex computer music system. So I haven't received the kind of tech support I want from Bel Canto, as they have not duplicated a system setup like mine. They do recommend MC 20 and the owner's manual provides minimal setup instructions.

I will hook up the headphone output of the Mini to a line input on a Sonos player and test MC 20 that way.

tuneup · « **Reply #43 on:** April 15, 2015, 12:40:11 pm »

One more log before I change the player. https://www.dropbox.com/s/7yr23mn4q2eyoy3/JRiver%20Log%202015-04-15%2010-36-53.zip?dl=0

JimH · « **Reply #44 on:** April 15, 2015, 01:00:25 pm »

Have you tried the latest build? It's 20.0.94.
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=96936.0

tuneup · « **Reply #45 on:** April 15, 2015, 02:05:10 pm »

I loaded .94 before I connected Mini to Sonos. Sad to say it crashed within 15 minutes while playing music. https://www.dropbox.com/s/4ye2fjlt7xbxz4t/JRiver%20Log%202015-04-15%2011-40-54.zip?dl=0

I want to try playing files from the Mini to the REFStream, but as I said before, when I tried I got various error messages. I don't have time right now to reproduce them and send them to you, so can you please send me any wiki links that will instruct me on where to place music files in the Mini. I created a desktop folder and copied them from the NAS to the folder, but I can't play from there.

tuneup · « **Reply #46 on:** April 15, 2015, 08:33:59 pm »

Glynor, I am going to do an end run and try the entire system using MC 20.0.93 on my Windows 7 Pro desktop, which also acts as the office server, so it is well loaded with an Intel Core i5 running at 3.1 GHz, has 32 GB of RAM and a WD 7200RPM 1TB HD (wd1003fzex-00mk2a0), a lot better than a Mac Mini. I also read Jim H.'s Powerpoint from the 2012 Montreal show where he recommends using Win 7 with MC 20. If this works with stability, then I will get the client a Dell laptop and have 2 Mac Minis to sell. I really have no more time to troubleshoot the Mac system. Using the same Synology NAS and the Bel Canto renderer, I have been playing music for an hour or so with no crash. This is of course a very short time and I will keep you posted over the next few days.

If you have any more suggestions for the Mac system, please let me know. (After I install my client's system, I might still want to try it on my own system. If it works, I will only have one Mini to get rid of.) And I am quite curious to know, if you ever find out, why the logs lacked crash reports.

Awesome Donkey · « **Reply #47 on:** April 15, 2015, 08:43:42 pm »

Quote from: tuneup on April 15, 2015, 08:33:59 pm

I also read Jim H.'s Powerpoint from the 2012 Montreal show where he recommends using Win 7 with MC 20.

Windows 8.1 works just as well as Windows 7.

glynor · « **Reply #48 on:** April 15, 2015, 08:46:33 pm »

Quote from: tuneup on April 15, 2015, 12:35:51 pm

Many emails with head of Bel Canto. Unfortunately, he is using an older Mini, which is pre-Yosemite

This concerns me.

OSX 10.10 includes essentially a largely new network stack. For just one example, the mDNSResponder daemon was replaced with the brand-new discoveryd daemon, and this daemon provided all sorts of network services in the OSX network stack. discoveryd has proven... Troublesome for a large variety of applications (mDNSResponder had its own problems, and was old and bloated, but it worked better than the early versions of 10.10, for sure). It concerns me that they'd advertise OSX compatibility without the ability to test on a machine modern enough to run Yosemite (which doesn't require anything all-that-recent, frankly).

I can say that 10.10.3 improves network reliability on OSX dramatically, so if you haven't updated the Mini yet, it might be worth trying it. I'd also point out that the Mac Mini makes a fantastic small Windows machine.

The OSX version of MC has made huge strides in the last year (video support), and it should work just fine as a server. But the Windows version is still ahead (it has Images support and Theater View, to name two major features).

If you want to try it, I'd really like to see results from an absolutely drop-dead simple playback system first. Meaning, plug some analog speakers into the headphone jack of the Mini and try it for a while. That rules out the NAS and installation and Mini's hardware as being the cause, and tells us it falls squarely in the DLNA Playback Chain part of the deal.

DLNA is... Not good, or super reliable. The standard is a complete mess, with different vendors doing different things, and all sorts of dependencies all up and down the chain.

But, again... That statement from Bel Canto gives me serious pause. The network stack in 10.10 is way different, and they apparently not only have not, but cannot test it, for their high-end device. Color me skeptical.

AndrewFG · « **Reply #49 on:** April 16, 2015, 12:21:08 am »

If you do have a Windows PC then you could try running my DMRA against your renderer. Turn on HTTP logging in the DMRA before selecting the renderer, and then post the HTTP log file here. That would enable us to see if your renderer is sending any kind off funny stuff that might be tripping MC.

INTERACT FORUM

Author Topic: MC 20.0.87 Crashing on Mac Mini with OS 10.10.2 Yosemite (Read 10048 times)