INTERACT FORUM

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 [2]   Go Down

Author Topic: WDM driver installation problem  (Read 25909 times)

glynor

  • MC Beta Team
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 19608
Re: WDM driver installation problem
« Reply #50 on: May 18, 2015, 11:31:51 pm »

It sounds as though it is trying to read the state of the WDM Feature from the admin account (which they automatically disabled in build 96) instead of the limited account.
Surely there must be a better solution than "run MC on your admin account and activate it".

That is absolutely, exactly what it is doing, and it is because of the fundamental nature of user accounts on Windows.  Please, just try what Hendrik said:

You could probably fix it by running MC itself as Admin, and then changing the setting there.

He was not saying "you have to use MC as an administrative user".  He was saying: Run MC once as the administrative user which you must already have and which you use to install the updates each time.  Run MC once, not the installer but MC itself, as that user, and go into Tools > Options > Settings > Features and turn the thing on there.

I already explained this up above and Hendrik confirmed, I thought, but I'll try again. The settings MC uses which are accessible in Tools > Options are stored in the HKCU registry hive. The setting itself is here:
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\JRiver\Media Center 20\Features\DriverWDM

The administrative user you use to install MC cannot access the limited user's HKCU registry hive.  It can only see its own. You turn it on on your limited user account and this key happily changes to a 1. For that user.

The default setting for MC is to have the WDM Driver disabled, so the administrative user's DriverWDM key is set to 0.  The second you validate against that UAC Run As prompt to run the installer (not the one-off install that happens when you activate the setting, the installer you run next time you run an update) only "sees" its own settings. These settings say the WDM Driver feature is disabled.  So, as far as the installer is concerned, it is turned off, regardless of what the HKCU registry key for your limited user's account says, because it can't see that setting.

So, fixing this is drop-dead simple.  Open MC one time and make the setting not be disabled anymore. Close MC. There done.

There's really no other choice for software on Windows. The only other part of the registry both the Administrative and the Limited user can see, that would make sense to use, would be HKLM.  But, I'll quote:

Quote
Write Registry Virtualization

    If the caller does not have write access to a key and attempts to write a value to it or create a subkey, the value is written to the virtual store.

    For example, if a limited user attempts to write a value to the following key: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\AppKey1, virtualization redirects the write operation to HKEY_USERS\<User SID>_Classes\VirtualStore\Machine\Software\AppKey1.

So, the limited user cannot write a setting to the registry which your administrative user can see.  It also, for the record, can't write to the Program Files directory either, so they can't even just abandon the whole registry setting system they've been using for decades for this one feature and write out an INI file in their install directory. Is there some crazy way they could rebuild the whole settings system for this one feature and make it work? Maybe, but suck it up and run it once as the admin user and check the stupid box.
Logged
"Some cultures are defined by their relationship to cheese."

Visit me on the Interweb Thingie: http://glynor.com/

6233638

  • Regular Member
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 5353
Re: WDM driver installation problem
« Reply #51 on: May 19, 2015, 12:52:13 am »

Yes, I understand that this should be a "simple fix" on my end by running MC as an admin and changing the value.
 
But surely I can't be the only person trying to run MC on a standard user account instead of using an admin account as a "user" account.
Logged

glynor

  • MC Beta Team
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 19608
Re: WDM driver installation problem
« Reply #52 on: May 19, 2015, 01:02:07 am »

No, but if they want to use the WDM Driver then they'll come here and we'll point them to this thread.

I don't see the problem. Is there something I'm missing?
Logged
"Some cultures are defined by their relationship to cheese."

Visit me on the Interweb Thingie: http://glynor.com/

RoderickGI

  • MC Beta Team
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 8186
Re: WDM driver installation problem
« Reply #53 on: May 19, 2015, 01:57:36 am »

Yes, I understand that this should be a "simple fix" on my end by running MC as an admin and changing the value.
 
But surely I can't be the only person trying to run MC on a standard users account instead of using an admin account as a "user" account.

No, you are not. I don't think the "simple fix" would be appropriate for many ordinary users either. Most would just switch to using an Admin account all the time, which is a no-no for security reasons, or stop using the WDM Driver.

I might just try the fix and see if it works during the next upgrade.

No, but if they want to use the WDM Driver then they'll come here and we'll point them to this thread.

I don't see the problem. Is there something I'm missing?

Yes, the ordinary user experience. While a huge range of people come to the forums for answers, I've seen lots of power users come to the forum for the first time ever, to ask what are pretty basic questions. Not everybody jumps onto the forums as soon as something goes wrong, even if some important functionality appears broken. They just work around it, or stop trying to use it.

As to what the solution is, I'm wondering how those applications that ask the question;
"Do you want to install this application for all users, or just the current user?"
install their applications for all users.

I assume that they install themselves to the current machine, and therefore write to the keys under the HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\ chain. How do they do that, if the application is installed by a limited user who enters an Admin password when asked for it by UAC? This is a common enough scenario that there must be standard Windows procedures to do it. I will have to find an example and look at what it does, if I can. I think DVDfab does it from memory, and may be a simple example.
Logged
What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner

Sipheren

  • Recent member
  • *
  • Posts: 8
Re: WDM driver installation problem
« Reply #54 on: May 19, 2015, 03:15:12 am »

I had to format and reinstall Windows 8.1 (64-bit) on my Brix, before I formatted JRiver was working perfectly with the WDM Driver.

Now I have reinstalled the latest version of JRiver but the WDM driver won't install, I enable it in the settings, restart JRiver (I get the UAC prompt) and it says it's installed but no Driver is available in the Sound settings.

Is there a manual way to install the driver? I am the only user on the system and have admin privileges.

Cheers
Logged

JimH

  • Administrator
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 71619
  • Where did I put my teeth?
Re: WDM driver installation problem
« Reply #55 on: May 19, 2015, 06:19:28 am »

I had to format and reinstall Windows 8.1 (64-bit) on my Brix, before I formatted JRiver was working perfectly with the WDM Driver.

Now I have reinstalled the latest version of JRiver but the WDM driver won't install, I enable it in the settings, restart JRiver (I get the UAC prompt) and it says it's installed but no Driver is available in the Sound settings.
Did you try a reboot?

There is no manual way to install it.
Logged

Sipheren

  • Recent member
  • *
  • Posts: 8
Re: WDM driver installation problem
« Reply #56 on: May 19, 2015, 06:47:37 am »

Did you try a reboot?

There is no manual way to install it.

Yeah, many times. I tried many different combinations of selected the driver, quitting JRiver, rebooting, etc.

nothing seems to work, it's as if it just doesn't install or something. I would love to just have a separate driver I can install, that way I know it installed.
Logged

glynor

  • MC Beta Team
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 19608
Re: WDM driver installation problem
« Reply #57 on: May 19, 2015, 06:51:52 am »

As to what the solution is, I'm wondering how those applications that ask the question;
"Do you want to install this application for all users, or just the current user?"
install their applications for all users.

The installer asks, not the application itself, obviously.  The installer runs as privileged code and can write where it wants.

Lots of applications require certain actions to be performed as the admin user.  For example, to use VideoReDo, you have to run the application once after installation as an administrative user so it can register its COM library.  Notepad++ requires you to run as an administrative user to register for file extensions or to install shell extensions.

This is not that unusual.
Logged
"Some cultures are defined by their relationship to cheese."

Visit me on the Interweb Thingie: http://glynor.com/

6233638

  • Regular Member
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 5353
Re: WDM driver installation problem
« Reply #58 on: May 29, 2015, 11:14:35 am »

It seems obvious in retrospect, but I have less of an issue with setting the preference to enable the WDM Driver by launching Media Center via "Run as administrator" rather than actually having to log into the admin account and run the program there as I thought you were suggesting.
 
I guess I just didn't think of it because I normally launch Media Center via a script to enforce the default user (so that it's always "child-friendly" by default) and to set the CPU Priority and Affinity so that it only runs at a lower priority on 3/4 CPU cores (to prevent SACD playback or 4K video playback from hogging the CPU to the point that the mouse can only update once every few seconds) which meant that the "Run as administrator" command was not an option on my shortcut to launch MC.
 
After using "Run as administrator" and enabling the WDM Driver on the admin account, I was able to update to 20.0.113 without losing the WDM driver.
In addition, my settings seem to have been preserved!
 
I tested this once more by setting a custom name and icon—something I have not bothered with for quite some time—and that has also persisted, even when downgrading to 20.0.108
Has this been the root cause all along?
Even though it was not removing the driver prior to build 20.0.96, it was still removing all of my settings every time I updated.
 
 
Is it possible to detect whether MC is being run on an account with admin priviliges or not?
If it is, I would block the installation on standard user accounts.
If not, I would at least mention that the WDM Driver should be installed by first launcing Media Center via the "Run as administrator" command, instead of installing it by running MC on a standard account and granting that process elevated priviliges when enabling the WDM feature.
Logged

CountryBumkin

  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 3352
Re: WDM driver installation problem
« Reply #59 on: May 29, 2015, 02:38:45 pm »

If not, I would at least mention that the WDM Driver should be installed by first launcing Media Center via the "Run as administrator" command, instead of installing it by granting MC elevated priviliges.

Good idea.
 +1
Logged

6233638

  • Regular Member
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 5353
Re: WDM driver installation problem
« Reply #60 on: June 05, 2015, 01:25:55 pm »

Bumping for awareness.
 
Media Center really needs to warn against installing the WDM Driver on a non-admin account, or by granting elevated priveleges by enabling the WDM Driver while the program is running, instead of using "Run as Administrator" to launch MC and then enable it.
Logged

Vocalpoint

  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 2007
Re: WDM driver installation problem
« Reply #61 on: June 05, 2015, 02:12:09 pm »

I just wanted to add to this - last Saturday morning - I did my monthly maintenance on the HTPC and did a manual update to the current MC build available within the "stable" tree. Everything seemed to go fine and I did see the MC installer clearly state that it was "removing the WDM driver"...even tho I had never ever allowed it to be enabled or installed on the PC - for the life of V20 on this box.

After the new build came back up - I was satisfied that all was well - MC started correctly and went into Theater View as it normally does. So I logged off the machine (via RDP) and left it at that. Later that evening - I would pay for that casual attitude.

My son's 11th birthday was Saturday and he and his pals wanted "movie time" as part of their sleepover plans. So I fired up the HTPC on the projector, popped some corn and thought I was going to enjoy a goofy kid flick.

MC did come up and did display Theater View - but we could not get any audio whatsoever on any digital file. Kids are getting impatient, Dad is starting to sweat. Off I go troubleshooting this thing. After about 10 minutes of screwing around - I remembered that "uninstalling WDM driver" from earlier in the day and checked out the audio driver assignments and so on. Turns out - while MC came back up after the update - it decided it might be a good time to switch to some lame audio driver for my motherboard - and not the Intel HDMI audio driver that had been correctly assigned since 2013.

I had this HDMI driver assigned for almost 2 years straight with no issue. This driver was correctly assigned prior to that Saturday morning update and I would assumed that MC would have left well enough alone and left the driver assigned when the new build was installed. But no.

Any ideas on why the update would have decided to replace my working driver?

VP
Logged

RoderickGI

  • MC Beta Team
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 8186
Re: WDM driver installation problem
« Reply #62 on: June 05, 2015, 08:02:45 pm »

Bumping for awareness.
 
Media Center really needs to warn against installing the WDM Driver on a non-admin account, or by granting elevated priveleges by enabling the WDM Driver while the program is running, instead of using "Run as Administrator" to launch MC and then enable it.

BTW, if using the "right click on the icon" method to "Run as Administrator" and set the WDM Driver, first make sure to close MC and kill the MC service. The MC service will continue to run in the background when you close the MC User Interface if you have Media Network or TV Recording features turned on. Even if you don't have those features turned on the service will close by itself, but that can take a few seconds or half a minute. So in that case either wait a minute after closing the MC UI, or check that the service has closed.

Why? Well, if the service is still running when you run MC as Administrator with a right click, MC will still start with the Restricted User account settings, and won't set the correct record in the Registry.

It should also be noted that as long as people want to install the WDM Driver and leave it installed, they only have to run MC as Administrator and turn the WDM Driver Feature on in MC Options once. Then that setting will be remembered for future installations.

Any ideas on why the update would have decided to replace my working driver?

I assume that when you did the update you received MC version 20.0.115?

There have been a few changes along the line with recent versions, and some had an adverse effect on the WDM Driver installation. Also, the WDM Driver has always been installed with every release for some time. So if your PC was set to trust JRiver with all driver installs, or you clicked the Allow (or whatever it is called) button to install it, then it was there. Even if it wasn't installed, it was "uninstalled" with every version, as one step in the update process. In doing the WDM uninstall the uninstall process de-assigned the default audio driver in Windows. It should not have changed the assigned Audio Device in MC though.

The good news is that some of these issues have been fixed, and JRiver is aware of the others. For now, after each update check your Default Playback Device in Windows, and its Configuration and Properties. Then check the assigned Audio Device in MC.
Logged
What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner

6233638

  • Regular Member
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 5353
Re: WDM driver installation problem
« Reply #63 on: June 09, 2015, 12:31:51 pm »

BTW, if using the "right click on the icon" method to "Run as Administrator" and set the WDM Driver, first make sure to close MC and kill the MC service. The MC service will continue to run in the background when you close the MC User Interface if you have Media Network or TV Recording features turned on. Even if you don't have those features turned on the service will close by itself, but that can take a few seconds or half a minute. So in that case either wait a minute after closing the MC UI, or check that the service has closed.

Why? Well, if the service is still running when you run MC as Administrator with a right click, MC will still start with the Restricted User account settings, and won't set the correct record in the Registry.

It should also be noted that as long as people want to install the WDM Driver and leave it installed, they only have to run MC as Administrator and turn the WDM Driver Feature on in MC Options once. Then that setting will be remembered for future installations.
Yes, that is important. I figured most people would be using the default, which is to run MC as a normal application.
Logged

mwillems

  • MC Beta Team
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 5181
  • "Linux Merit Badge" Recipient
Re: WDM driver installation problem
« Reply #64 on: June 09, 2015, 01:07:36 pm »

Yes, that is important. I figured most people would be using the default, which is to run MC as a normal application.

I think the reason this hasn't been an issue for more folks is that the default user account created as part of a windows installation (or pre-configured by OEMs) is an admin user.  So, for good or ill, the vast majority of non-technical windows users have one user which is an admin user.  For those folks, running MC as a normal application works fine (once the UAC prompt pops up, etc.).  

Even for folks like me who have admin and restricted accounts, I only make system changes (to include updating MC) with my admin user, so I never saw this.  

It's just an odd quirk. I agree that it could be better documented in the installer.
Logged

6233638

  • Regular Member
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 5353
Re: WDM driver installation problem
« Reply #65 on: June 09, 2015, 02:50:04 pm »

I think the reason this hasn't been an issue for more folks is that the default user account created as part of a windows installation (or pre-configured by OEMs) is an admin user.
I don't think that's true for Windows 8.1 at least?
 
I seem to remember being asked to create an admin password and then add standard user accounts.
Of course I could be misremembering.
 
After years of everyone saying that you should never be using a computer on a day-to-day basis on an admin account, Windows 8/8.1 was when I finally gave it a chance.
 
With maybe one or two other possible exceptions (and I can't think of anything specific right now) this has really been the only trouble I've had from using a standard user account.
 
I agree that it could be better documented in the installer.
If there is a way for MC to tell whether it's running on an admin account or not, it should block the installation of the driver and inform the user that it needs to be installed using the "run as administrator" command rather than prompt for elevated permissions.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2]   Go Up