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[Hilton]

I've had a fairly regular lift and coffee shop conversation with this nice chap in my building over the last year, we're often on the same arrival and coffee schedule and often have light conversation and banter in the lift and the coffee shop.

This morning a doof doof drove into the carpark while we were waiting for the lift and I mentioned I like loud music too, but prefer quality over volume, and that prompted the discovery that we both have a passion for music.... Turns out that he's the club president for Sydney Audio Club.  


Didn't have much time to chat in the lift this morning but I'll find out if he's onto MC.
I'll get along to the next meet and spread the JRiver love.

[JimH]

Nice story.  Thanks.

You could offer a few free licenses if you like.  Just send me an email.  jimh...

[Hilton]

I sent an email off.

Hi Tom,

Thanks for the card, I look forward to coming along to a meeting and having some great conversations. I see your next meeting is in August.
I maybe off to the snow for a week so may miss this one but I’ll let you know.

I have another couple of local friends that maybe interested in attending too.

We’re beta testers for the JRiver Media Center software over at www.JRiver.com
 
I, with my other Aussie counter parts are some of the most vocal and demanding endearing users who provide plenty of input into development. 
Not sure if you’ve heard of it, but it’s “THE” “Audiophile” media player, library manager and server.

I noticed you see the future as digital and streaming from your interview on the SAC site, so it’s something that I think you’d enjoy checking out.
Bit perfect playback for PCM, FLAC, SACD Rips with USB DAC support and a whole lot more. (just about every audio and video format known to man with multi-zone playback)

Jim Hillegass started JRiver for audio and has developed it into a whole of house media center, with more than 20 years of development behind it. (Version 21 just about to start going through development)
JRiver Media Center has some pretty high profile users, Bob Katz for one and Neil Young from Pono and a very active and vocal passionate community. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Katz

The Pono player desktop software is based on JRiver Media Center.

I very much look forward to catching up sometime.

PS. Jim has asked me to extend a free license to you if you’re interested. Please drop him an email to let him know and he’ll send you a key.
I can offer to help get you started with it if you like as there’s so much you can do with it. You can start off with a laptop install with external USB disk to keep it simple. (MAC or PC)


Cheers,

Hilton

[mojave]

It's about time you gave out your phone number and address! 

Looks like a fun club.

[Hilton]

FYI
I'll be going along with Pi and Id in tow.

Cheers
Hilton Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Greetings from the Lift (Hilton)

Hi Hilton,

Got your email that time!  Thanks for the resend.

Yes, JRiver is a very good product.  At home I use Audirvana Plus v2.2 plus Pure Music V2.0.4 plus the Mac version of JRiver v20.  We'll be comparing those 3 on Sunday, plus lots of other comparisons (DSD to high-res PCM for example).

I must say though, I don't think the JRiver Mac version is the equal of the PC version.  But I'm sure it'll improve with every new version.

Please try to make it on Sunday.

And please thank Jim for the kind offer of the JRiver licence, but I already have one.

Cheers,
Tom

[Hilton]

Here's what I'm up for on Sunday.

Nathan you're welcome to meet me there.

I'll see if I can sneek an Id and or Pi into the testing


Subject: Sydney Audio Club Meeting - Sunday 16th August 2015

The August 2015 meeting of the Sydney Audio Club sees us once again gather for an afternoon of fine music, great sound and amicable company.

Each month, the Sydney Audio Club presents the finest in high end audio systems for our members and guests.  It's a bit like a private audio show once a month where you can hear and discuss equipment that you might not otherwise have the chance to audition.  And you can bring along your own music to test the capabilities of the system or to just share with like-minded music lovers in a friendly and relaxed atmosphere.
This month we will be focussed on computer audio and music server products.  
We’ll compare Audirvana V2, Pure Music V2 and JRiver V20.  Pure Music and Audirvana are available only for the Mac platform, so to ensure a level playing field we’ll compare them to the Mac version of JRiver.  (Sorry, no Amarra comparisons.)  

We’ll also compare the FLAC and WAV version of the same recording.  We’ll compare high-res PCM to DSD.  Lastly, we’ll also compare a CD disc, the same CD ripped to disc and a high-res version.  Time permitting, we’ll also compare a CD ripped with XLD (on Mac) and to the same CD ripped with dbPoweramp (Mac version).  

Everything will be presented “blind” so you can determine what sounds best to you without preconceived ideas getting in the way.  Admittedly, hearing a disc player whirling away or me fumbling with the disc player controls might give the game away!  But most things can be hidden from you.   And although the emphasis will be on Mac based products, that won’t invalidate what you can expect to do and hear with a Windows platform.

Details of the system….

Kudos Audio C20 speakers – Refer to http://www.kudosaudio.com/loudspeakers/c20/ and http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/kudos-audio-cardea-anniversary-super-20-loudspeakers/

Audible Illusions L3A preamp – Refer to http://www.audibleillusions.com/products/l3-line-stage-preamplifier/

Plinius SA100 Power amp – Refer to http://www.stereophile.com/solidpoweramps/497plinius/ and http://www.audioreview.com/cat/amplification/amplifiers/plinius/sa-100-mk-iii/prd_116087_1583crx.aspx

Mac Mini (late 2012 version) – with i7 processors, 16GB memory, SSD system disc.  Music on SSD with Thunderbolt connectivity.  Connected to DAC via Vertere Pulse HB USB cable.

Bricasti Design M1 DAC – Refer to http://i.nextmedia.com.au/avhub/australian-hifi_reviews_2014_2014-07_bricasti_design_m1_dac_review_test_lores.pdf and http://www.audiostream.com/content/bricasti-design-m1-dac  

Oppo BDP-105 Universal player – Refer to https://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-105/ and http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/oppo-bdp-105-universal-blu-ray-player-and-dac/

Nordost Red Dawn speaker cables and interconnects and WireWorld interconnects.


The second half of the music sessions will be our popular BYO.   Members and guests are welcome to offer music to share with us all.  So bring along your favourite music on CD/SACD or flash drive.  (Sorry, no provision for vinyl this month.)  All we ask is that the music and recordings be interesting.  We'll ask you to tell us a little about the artist/recording before it is played.  Tracks over 6 minutes will be faded out, to give everyone a fair go.

Whether you are a novice or a seasoned veteran, you will have the opportunity to listen, learn and share your experiences with others of a similar mind.

Guests are always welcome – we are a very friendly club so you don't need to know anyone to join us for an afternoon of fine music and sound.  We will welcome you at the door.

Venue:  Epping Creative Centre, Dence Park
Address:  26 Stanley St, Epping

When:  Sunday 16th August 2015

Doors open 1pm
Meeting starts at 2pm
 
Best regards,

Tom Waters
President
Sydney Audio Club
www.sydneyaudioclub.org.au

[Hilton]

This is what I plan for my show and tell in the BYO.

Surface Pro 2 – MC20/21 - Windows 10
Intel NUC  - MC20/21 - Running the blackbox JRiver “Id” on SSD (Debian Linux x86) Plus a Windows 8.1 image on the same NUC with MC21
(both designed to run headless without a monitor)

Raspberry Pi 2 – MC21 (my battery powered portable media server)

FiiO E9k USB Desktop Pre/AMP with E17 DAC

iPhone 6+ w/ JRemote
Android tablet w/ JRemote

Sennheiser HD650 Head Phones
Klipsch Image One Head Phones
Turtle Beach Elite 800 Wireless RF + Bluetooth DTS X7.1 Head Phones (with noise cancelling)

Ohhh and 12TB USB3/esata RAID box.

[Matt]

We’ll also compare the FLAC and WAV version of the same recording.

Oh boy.  Should be fun!

[JimH]

I wish I could be there.  Give them our greetings.

[DarkPenguin]

Oh boy.  Should be fun!

heeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheehee!

If you could report back on the method they use to do this that would be great.

[Hilton]

It will be a fun day for sure.

Tom's asked if I don't overwhelm them with tech as a lot of the audience aren't computer savy.
They also wont have time to do it justice so he wants to setup another separate specific session on it because there's been so much interest in it.

So I'll just take along the Pi & E17DAC and my phone and chat to the group, and maybe give them a couple small demo's towards the end of the day if there's time.

I'm looking forward to it.

I better get that coat of paint onto the Pi Brick and put the 1TB SSD in it.

[Hilton]

Darko might be part of the next dedicated Digital gear BYO review.  Tom's just considering it.

Now if I can only find a way to charge $6500 for a Linux server.....

http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2015/05/antipodes-audio-dx-music-server-review/

[jmone]

 Mmmmm, we are in the Hunter for the weekend but ... I might be able to make it back in time
Thanks
Nathan

[astromo]

It will be a fun day for sure.

Tom's asked if I don't overwhelm them with tech as a lot of the audience aren't computer savy.
They also wont have time to do it justice so he wants to setup another separate specific session on it because there's been so much interest in it.

So I'll just take along the Pi & E17DAC and my phone and chat to the group, and maybe give them a couple small demo's towards the end of the day if there's time.

I'm looking forward to it.

I better get that coat of paint onto the Pi Brick and put the 1TB SSD in it.

Less is more. I reckon if your demo goes off glitch free, then you've had a successful day.

[Hilton]

Yeah I'm putting the 1TB SSD in the Pi and it has a new coat of paint that's drying now.
I'll be re-doing a little of the internals tomorrow (new switches and LEDS and couple other things) and stress testing it on MC21.
My mates 3D printer is on the fritz so I haven't been able to get the plastic internal mount made. So I'm buying some .5 mm copper sheet to make the internal mount for the circuit boards tomorrow too. (will try anyway)

I got these new Turtle Beach Elite 800 wireless headphones this week which are very cool. I can walk around the house listening to music, and chat on the PC or mobile at the same time.
I can connect the DAC to the Pi and use a cable from the DAC to the headphones or Bluetooth and switch between. Can do the same with the iPhone and switch between BT and the DAC to compare the difference.
They also have an RF transmitter base with optical in and usb out for chat. (for pc, ps3 and xbox gaming)
They sound really quite good and have a bunch of built in DSPs and active noise cancelling.
I'm very impressed how versatile they are and how good they sound. They're not as revealing or accurate as the HD600 but they're warmer and fatter sounding without being bloated.

[Hilton]

First test down

I picked JRiver as the preferred blind.
Audiorvana had a glitch during playback and sounded good too.
Pure music lacked top end and was bloated.

Test tracks for test1
CS&N - Helplessly hoping 24/96 flac
Ray Brown - Exactly like you 24/192 flac

Extra test back to back
Mozart sequence no1 dies irae Chorus 24/192
A few more people preferred JRiver, me too goes without saying!
Surprised I heard a difference.

On to more testing...

[Hilton]

Test 2
DSD64 vs 24/96 Flac
Steely dan gaucho

Room split 50/50 DSD/Flac
I preferred Flac. (They were clearly from diff masters) Flac was brighter, punchier and fuller. Almost too bright.

Player was audiovarna.

[Hilton]

Cd to Cd rip to hires
Dave brubeck- take five
CD vs DBpoweramp to wav vs HD tracks 24/176.4

Most preferred the rip including me.
Again a different master too between the cd and HDtracks Flac.

Player audiovarna

[Hilton]

Btw this is a $50k system. (Including a 3500 dollar USB cable)

It was certainly a beautiful sounding rig! Not sure about the USB cable though.

[jmone]

Sounds like fun - sorry I missed it  Do they have a bulk pack of those cables?

[Hilton]

There were definitely a few JRiver converts there, and a couple of recent new JRiver users that have asked for help with various things.  So in exchange for a listening session on their systems I've offered to pop around and answer some questions and help them get the most out of it.

It wasn't a perfect testing scenario, but it was blind testing with software players and hardware players used in random for each test with voting after each test with the answers revealed before the next test.
There were certainly some problems with Audiovana or some configuration issue as it glitched twice during the auditions, where JRiver and pure audio didn't. (on the same hardware, with the software players shutdown between each test.)  The source material was from different masters and originals too which is somewhat problematic for comparing formats.  THe player tests weren't optimal either as we played 2 tracks sequentially and then went to the next player for the first test. Audio memory is not that great, especially with material your not familiar with.

However in repeating test 1 with a track back to back from each player it was clear there were differences.
There was also a test between the Opo built in DAC and the $10,000 Bricasti Design M1 DAC and the difference was quite astonishing to this sceptic.
The Bricasti was, well.... wonderful in every way. The opo sounded thin and lacked authority and tone compared to the Bricasti DAC. Very very surprising.

I was very sceptical going in, but I could clearly hear a sound signature from each player. Blow me down, I REALLY did not expect to hear anything.

Audiovana sounded good too, but it seemed a little more forward and brighter overall than JRiver, I didn't like pure audio at all. It seemed to pump up the mid bass and sounded bloated with a distinct roll-off in the higher frequencies (about 7-12k - I cant hear much past that now anyway, maybe upto 16k)


And on a closing note..

Here's my finished Pi player.
As I mentioned in my Pi thread, I had 4 people interested in auditioning it in their home and 2 people wanted to part with cash on the spot for one out of a room of about 35 and I only spoke to about a dozen of them.


I'll post some pics of the gear at the meeting shortly.
It was certainly fun and interesting.

20150816_084917070_iOS by Hilton, on Flickr

[yoda]

Thanks for a balanced report of the meeting Hilton. I was sitting next to you and look forward to hearing your magic black box in my system. I was also amazed to hear significant differences between the systems auditioned even in such a difficult room and trying to listen between heads blocking the sound. It was my impression that JRiver delivered a more 'neutral' sound and better soundstage (full centre compared to extreme left and right and thin centre in the other two - may be a phasing issue although with the music chosen this was only an impression). The other two that had their own signature which coloured the sound - more hifi sound than neutral music if that makes sense.

[Hilton]

The setup

20150816_070647929_iOS by Hilton, on Flickr

The Awesome Bricasti DAC

20150816_070834264_iOS by Hilton, on Flickr

20150816_070846681_iOS by Hilton, on Flickr

The Kudos Audio C20 speakers proved to be very versatile, surprisingly adapting to most music. I sat in the middle of the room in the middle row of chairs (front to back) in an almost perfect Isosceles Triangle (I sat slighter further back than the width) Imaging was wonderful even with a bunch of people in front of me.

20150816_070654090_iOS by Hilton, on Flickr

20150816_070703044_iOS by Hilton, on Flickr

The effortless Plinius, well matched to the speakers.

20150816_070856306_iOS by Hilton, on Flickr

20150816_070912282_iOS by Hilton, on Flickr

The Rel Stampede Sub, very neutral, couldn't place it in the room and it blended perfectly at the default 49hz. Very musical, very tight and powerful. (don't know the slope)

20150816_070720048_iOS by Hilton, on Flickr

20150816_070732716_iOS by Hilton, on Flickr

Plenty of well filtered power on hand....

20150816_070923554_iOS by Hilton, on Flickr

20150816_070945025_iOS by Hilton, on Flickr

Audible Illusions Preamp, very noice.

20150816_070759879_iOS by Hilton, on Flickr


Some of the very expensive cables on the preamp..
20150816_070749116_iOS by Hilton, on Flickr


External Power for the Preamp..
20150816_070950370_iOS by Hilton, on Flickr


The oppo

20150816_070824561_iOS by Hilton, on Flickr

20150816_070811123_iOS by Hilton, on Flickr

Danger... million dollar Audio cable ahead....

20150816_071033849_iOS by Hilton, on Flickr

And lastly.... Back at home....
A gratuitous shot of my Pi Brick flanked by FiiO E09k headphone amp and E17 DAC, Acer Iconia Tab 8 running JRemote and iPhone 6+ running JRemote and Klipsch Image One HeadPhones.  
One happy little digital (JRiver) family.

IMG_5822 by Hilton, on Flickr

[Hilton]

Thanks for a balanced report of the meeting Hilton. I was sitting next to you and look forward to hearing your magic black box in my system. I was also amazed to hear significant differences between the systems auditioned even in such a difficult room and trying to listen between heads blocking the sound. It was my impression that JRiver delivered a more 'neutral' sound and better soundstage (full centre compared to extreme left and right and thin centre in the other two - may be a phasing issue although with the music chosen this was only an impression). The other two that had their own signature which coloured the sound - more hifi sound than neutral music if that makes sense.

Thanks it was a fun session.  I'll PM you my number and we can catchup some time in the next couple weeks for sure.

Cheers.

[Hilton]

These were some of the discs we listened to in the BYO listening session after the player tests.

St. Vincent - Liked this very much... very Avant garde and "goldfrapp like" electronica. Will def be buying this. Lush and full well mastered.

20150816_062119640_iOS by Hilton, on Flickr

Bombay dub Orchestra - This was a very interesting one, produced by a couple UK electronica guys, (who's name escapes me)  fusion of electronica, middle eastern and indian music.

20150816_063654247_iOS by Hilton, on Flickr

20150816_063703939_iOS by Hilton, on Flickr


George Davidson - beautiful piano

20150816_064808188_iOS by Hilton, on Flickr

20150816_064816611_iOS by Hilton, on Flickr


Monterey - The milk carton kids - folky, bluegrass. reminiscent of Simon and Garfunkel quite beautiful.

20150816_070122558_iOS by Hilton, on Flickr

20150816_070130101_iOS by Hilton, on Flickr

We also listened to some Peter Dickson, someone I know well, as he plays regularly busking in Manly and the Corso and over in Bondi during Summer.
He makes his own studio albums and plays a lot of the instruments himself.  It's beautiful Spanish/latin guitar and sometimes with a twist. Some of the best flamenco and Spanish guitar playing you will ever hear, and pretty well produced and mixed, even for a home studio.

There were others too but those were the highlights for me.

Thoroughly enjoyable afternoon.

[Hilton]

Seems Microsoft in their wisdom have removed public folder sharing in Onedrive. Links now expire after 24 hours. Apologies I will now have to move all my pics to another service and repost. Sorry guys!

[Hilton]

All fixed on flickr. nicer to be able to flick to an album view too.

[mwillems]

St. Vincent - Liked this very much... very Avant garde and "goldfrapp like" electronica. Will def be buying this. Lush and full well mastered.

She's been releasing albums for a few years now, but her last two albums have been just amazing (check "Strange Mercy" once you've spent some time with the self-titled); she's also done a lot of really eclectic collaborations including a pretty big one with David Byrne a year or two back.  Just great stuff, you're in for a treat with her catalog.

[Hilton]

Discussion on the test results and testing here >>> http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=99580.new#new

Darko's review: >> (which I quite enjoyed)
http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2015/08/a-stand-off-down-under-puremusic-vs-jriver-vs-audirvana/