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Author Topic: Buffering message and no playback  (Read 8573 times)

Oliverlim

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Buffering message and no playback
« on: September 07, 2015, 11:31:35 pm »

Hi,

I just bought MC20 after a long research. It seems the easiest to use and most full featured app.  I am however facing a few issues and am not sure what is wrong. It so happens that everything seems fine till I bought and registered the software!  :-p

1. I am now seeing a buffering message when I click on any tracks on my audio files. It stays there and the app almost seems to be hanged.  It did seem to happen only after I enabled DLNA so that I can use my jremote to control MC20. 

2. I see many options in the audio playback device. I have a Sound Blaster X7 which supports almsot everything short of DSD.  I have DSD files and Flacs and ALAC and MP3. I choose the output format to convert everything as default and anything higher the 176khz to output as 175kz and 192khz which my X7 supports. I do notice that it seems to convert 16/44(CD ALAC or FLAC files) to 24/44 files. Not sure why and I cant seem to find any thing to do a Native output for those files. So I changed the device output to SB ASIO which I guess should be the best device as that supports jitter reduction etc? It was working fine for a few days but now its showing the buffering message. Reboots and even change it to direct sound shows the same message.  I rebooted the SB X7 etc but no go. Any ideas?

3. How does the JRemote software on the IOS talk to my MC20?  Over my wifi or over the internet? I connected them using the special code word in the app which I assume needs the internet. It was working but due to issue 2, is not working as well.

Thanks!
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Oliverlim

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Re: Buffering message and no playback
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2015, 11:56:47 pm »

Just to add on that all files are on the pc HDD locally.  When I use windows media player to play the files, they play fine through the X7 dac.....
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Arindelle

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Re: Buffering message and no playback
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2015, 08:38:31 am »

sorry no time to go into detail but ...

Hi,


I choose the output format to convert everything as default and anything higher the 176khz to output as 175kz and 192khz which my X7 supports. I do notice that it seems to convert 16/44(CD ALAC or FLAC files) to 24/44 files.
Why? I don't know your DAC, but why are you upsampling? This can take up a lot of resources, depending on your hardware. I'd test without any upsampling to see. Most of the time you want an upsampling DAC to do the upsampling

recommend you go simple first -- set DSP Studio to "no change" for all except what your DAC can't process (eg if the DAC can't handle 176 up sample to 192 or downsample. I'm assuming you have read this http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Audio_Setup. If you haven't I'd try and follow the basic set-up instructions first THEN tweak your system if needed

BTW Most Dacs use a 24bit input, this is probably normal and good that the output is 24bit. The native ASIO driver for your sound car should be a good choice, otherwise  try WASAPI exclusive. There may be problems with the DAC driver (make sure it is up to date) unrelated to JRIver.

Quote
JRemote ?  Over my wifi or over the internet?
can be both -- wifi on your LAN, internet when streaming to the device externally
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bob

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Re: Buffering message and no playback
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2015, 11:20:47 am »

Try  Arindelle's suggestion on the DSP studio settings.

If you still have the issue, only change the Media Network enabling switch and see if that makes any difference.
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Oliverlim

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Re: Buffering message and no playback
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2015, 09:17:18 pm »

sorry no time to go into detail but ...
Why? I don't know your DAC, but why are you upsampling? This can take up a lot of resources, depending on your hardware. I'd test without any upsampling to see. Most of the time you want an upsampling DAC to do the upsampling

recommend you go simple first -- set DSP Studio to "no change" for all except what your DAC can't process (eg if the DAC can't handle 176 up sample to 192 or downsample. I'm assuming you have read this http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Audio_Setup. If you haven't I'd try and follow the basic set-up instructions first THEN tweak your system if needed

BTW Most Dacs use a 24bit input, this is probably normal and good that the output is 24bit. The native ASIO driver for your sound car should be a good choice, otherwise  try WASAPI exclusive. There may be problems with the DAC driver (make sure it is up to date) unrelated to JRIver.
 can be both -- wifi on your LAN, internet when streaming to the device externally

I am not trying to do upsampling. I have set under DSP that everything under 192k to output as no change. Only above 192k is set to 176 or 192 as my dac does not support above 192k.

I am assuming as my dac supports 24bit, it would be processing at 24 bit. So this bit change that I see from 16bit to 24bit is all right? Would I be able to find out if this 16-24bit is done by jriver or my dac?

For some reason, if I selet WASPAI or ASIO, I get the buffering issue after a while. As in after a few songs or tens of songs, jriver will hang with a permanent Buffering message. MC20 lags but is still responsive.  Task Manager shows me that MC20 is not responding.  But I tried a combi that seems to be working for 1 whole day now. That is my X7 (Kernel Streaming) option. I am not sure what this does actually. I tried reinstalling my X7 latest firmware and drivers but only Kernal Streaming seems to work with no issues.

The music being played are all local in the PC of MC20.

I will look into the media networking switch if I still have trouble. But I actually only need for jremote to work and not to access any NAS etc from the network. Whats the minimum for the media network option to allow jremote to work?

Thanks bob/Arindelle.
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Arindelle

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Re: Buffering message and no playback
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2015, 05:37:12 am »

Hey Oliver

Try what Bob suggests. any change?

Can I assume you have read the article on audio set-up and you have not set anything differently .. bitstreaming is not-enabled right?

Is your system something like this one: HTPC as media server (+ NAS?) + sound card in PC -->analogue stereo (no network DACs, DLNA streamers etc.). No client PCs? JRemote as controller.

If you are running a NAS (or a client pC for playback), it is not unusual to have "buffering" show up in the player window, especially on large files or playlists of a lot of albums depending on your network, files on different drives. This is happening to me now sporadically for client playback, because I'm changing over to a full 1GB cat 6 network ... right now I'm using a power line (BPL? in France thats CPL oops don't know the term in english, haha) which stinks. If you have network slow-downs or bottlenecks, or are on wifi to serve the files might not have anything to do with JRiver. If your media is located on the media server PC though this should not be happening of course.

Maybe you can confirm?



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Oliverlim

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Re: Buffering message and no playback
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2015, 12:55:50 am »

Hey Oliver

Try what Bob suggests. any change?

Can I assume you have read the article on audio set-up and you have not set anything differently .. bitstreaming is not-enabled right?

Is your system something like this one: HTPC as media server (+ NAS?) + sound card in PC -->analogue stereo (no network DACs, DLNA streamers etc.). No client PCs? JRemote as controller.

If you are running a NAS (or a client pC for playback), it is not unusual to have "buffering" show up in the player window, especially on large files or playlists of a lot of albums depending on your network, files on different drives. This is happening to me now sporadically for client playback, because I'm changing over to a full 1GB cat 6 network ... right now I'm using a power line (BPL? in France thats CPL oops don't know the term in english, haha) which stinks. If you have network slow-downs or bottlenecks, or are on wifi to serve the files might not have anything to do with JRiver. If your media is located on the media server PC though this should not be happening of course.

Maybe you can confirm?





No bitstreaming and everything is set as per the document and no change for output on anything below 192k. 


My set up is as follows. HTPC as media server + USB sound card (Sound Blaster X7) in PC --> Sound Blaster X7 (DAC and AMP) is connected directly to a passive speaker (no network DACs, DLNA streamers etc.). JRemote as controller on my iphone. I have Splashtop on my HTPC so that I can remotely connect to it and "natively" control JRiver as well as I do not have a monitor connected to this unit.  The Task manager on my HTPC shows that it never exceeds 30% CPU usage on any WAV/ALAC/Flac files. When I am playing back DSD files which are down converted to 192k, it shows around 40-50% max but usually still around 20-30% cpu usage. Memory usage and all seems on the low side with free memory to spare. No NAS whatsoever as all media files are stored locally on the HTPC on a SSD drive. I will be adding a USB 3.0 external HDD soon for media storage. Confirmed again, the buffering is not due to slow access etc as it just hangs there. I waited mins and it seems sort of a program hang. MC20 is still responsive as i can select the menus etc. The playback buttons etc are not responding though. When I check task manager in this situation, the CPU load is near zero. Just shows MC20 app is no responding on task manager.  Maybe its a ASIO driver issue. I have not experienced the same issue after I switch to the kernel streaming driver.


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Arindelle

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Re: Buffering message and no playback
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2015, 02:31:33 pm »

sorry no internet at my place, construction severed the fiber optic cable at the hub .. so briefly from my phone at the pub you should have 0 buffering issues if your media is on an ssd even if you have a slow PC. Seems to be a driver issue ... try WASAPI exclusive as maybe your asio driver is messed to check.

Did you try what Bob suggested ?

someone else please chime in, really having connx issues on my end
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Oliverlim

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Re: Buffering message and no playback
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2015, 10:21:04 pm »

sorry no internet at my place, construction severed the fiber optic cable at the hub .. so briefly from my phone at the pub you should have 0 buffering issues if your media is on an ssd even if you have a slow PC. Seems to be a driver issue ... try WASAPI exclusive as maybe your asio driver is messed to check.

Did you try what Bob suggested ?

someone else please chime in, really having connx issues on my end

I tried everything bob suggested. ASIO option would not play anything. It just stays stuck at the buffering message.  WASAPI and Kernel Streaming works fine.  I did try to uninstall and reinstall the ASIO driver but its still the same. I will try upgrading to MC21 to see if it helps.  I was hoping to upgrade to windows 10 but have put it on hold till at least this issue is solved.

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Oliverlim

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Re: Buffering message and no playback
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2015, 12:16:22 am »

I uninstalled MC20 and installed MC21.  ASIO still refuse to work. I uninstall all SB X7 drivers and app as well to be sure. Rebooted the PC after each uninstall and install. Not sure what else to try. 

Is there anything I should be aware of ASIO vs Kernel Streaming vs WASAPI mode?
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Arindelle

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Re: Buffering message and no playback
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2015, 05:12:43 am »

what's a bit strange is that it worked and then now doesn't .... it seems like it started when you enabled DLNA. However maybe your Windows default device is not set too. I agree tho, do not go over to Win10 before you get this up and running.

If you haven't already please read this it will help =>http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Audio_Setup

Even though, normally, the first choice is to use the native drivers for your Dac, in this case ASIO. I'd try simplifying.

Then you can add back somethings later. 

I'm assuming you have only 1 zone set up now .. the default one called "Player"

I'd try to be as "default" as possible ..

In Options =>Media Network=>"Use Media Network to share ..." is disabled

In Options=>Audio (zone to configure = Player) set Audio Device to a WASAPI device (probably a realtec driver? -- also make sure this is the playback device selected in Windows=>Sound=>Playback devices)  whatever can be correctly connected to your external DAC

In Options=>Audio click the 3 "..." to open device settings and verify defaults are set ... check allow exclusive access, Bit Depth on Automatic, buffering at 100ms

In Options=>Audio=>Advanced=>Live Latency verify the default is set at 50ms

Now in Options=>General Features uncheck WDM driver if enabled.

Close down MC (making sure there is no media server program running - see icons at bottom right of windows task bar and shut it down if needed.

Re-open JRiver and test.  Does this play? It should. If this worked, then we can try changing the audio device to your Dacs ASIO driver to se if it sounds better .. then if this works, you can get JRemote running .... finally if you want to use the WDM driver, set this up last (BUT highly recommended to do this in a different zone.

Note: when set to exclusive playback (better for many reasons), as I see you have a "gaming" DAC, if JRiver is loaded, it is normal that you will not have sound from you tube, other external programs... don't freak out. Just close down JRiver for the moment is a test config, not necessarily the best adapted to your use. :)

hope this helps


PS- 30% CPU load is pretty high ... did you mean total load or what JRiver was taking? ... On one fo my older PCs -- during playback I'am showing 0.9% CPU load for JRIVer (with some spikes of course)
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JimH

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Re: Buffering message and no playback
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2015, 07:07:59 am »

If you're having trouble with ASIO, just switch to WASAPI.
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vtmedicated

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Re: Buffering message and no playback
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2015, 06:47:46 pm »

Oliver,

Had the same problem with the Creative Sound Blaster E5 DAC but finally got it working. Give this a shot:

1) Options>Audio>Select "Creative Sound Blaster [ASIO]">Device Settings

2) Under "Buffering" set it at 100ms, Large hardware buffers enabled

3) Under "Output" click "Open Driver Control Panel." You should see an option for setting the Creative ASIO's buffering. 

4) Set buffering to 100ms and close it out.  Leave both other Output options unchecked.

Close out of the options menus and see if your tracks will play.

On a fresh install of jriver, these are the only settings I changed to get it working, but in case you need it, under "Device" I have Channel offset at 0 and Swap at none,  Volume I have set to automatic (but that could be a system specific issue so select the sound blaster if need be).

As to the Windows sound settings, sound blaster as default device, under speaker properties I have default format set at 24/192, checked "allow applications to take exclusive control," checked "give exclusive mode applications priority," checked "enable audio enhancements."

Best of luck
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