Topic: A way to have a centralized common library? (Read 4728 times)

YannisA · « **on:** October 22, 2009, 10:58:00 am »

The problem is known to all.
I have my media files stored in a PC operating 24/7 (windows home server), and I want to be able to "view" the library from clients on the LAN.
My server is headless and off site, I make changes/updates to the library from a Pc on the LAN. Is it possible afterwards, all the clients to have the same (updated) version of the library?
Just to clarify, no one at home will ever need to "update" the library exept myself. Wife & kids want just to watch/listen to media stored.

Matt · « **Reply #1 on:** October 22, 2009, 10:59:09 am »

This is what Library Server is for.

v14 adds the ability to submit changes made on a client back to the server using 'Library Sync'.

glynor · « **Reply #2 on:** October 22, 2009, 11:12:43 am »

Quote from: Matt on October 22, 2009, 10:59:09 am

This is what Library Server is for.

v14 adds the ability to submit changes made on a client back to the server using 'Library Sync'.

Matt... Since someone asked, I'm wondering about using Library Server again in my setup. Currently, I simply have my library database on the file share with my media files, and my various copies of MC access it directly. This works well, but I do get stuck with Read-Only copies of MC if I have more than one copy open at a time. However, I have a few questions...

1) With the new additions, does the Library Server play nice with video files (including MKVs and whatnot)? In the past it did NOT (long delays before starting playback), but I believe Yaobing was working on this.

2) The Library Sync function is still manual, correct? What does this mean? Do I always need to remember to sync back changes whenever they are done from a machine that isn't the server? Most of my changes will be done from my laptop or my HTPC, not from the server, so this isn't very convenient.

3) How about Tremote? If I decide to switch over to using the Library Server, am I still limited to only using Tremote to control the Library Server? I need to be able to use Tremote to control my HTPC. However, my HTPC will NOT be running the Library Server because it is designed to be able to S3 Sleep and be shut down whenever I need without impacting the other machines on the network.

YannisA · « **Reply #3 on:** October 28, 2009, 05:18:44 am »

Quote from: glynor on October 22, 2009, 11:12:43 am

2) The Library Sync function is still manual, correct? What does this mean? Do I always need to remember to sync back changes whenever they are done from a machine that isn't the server? Most of my changes will be done from my laptop or my HTPC, not from the server, so this isn't very convenient.

It's a manual function and, doesn't work for me.
I have the server, where all media is located, running Library server.
I connect to the media files (on the server) from a client, maiking changes to the (client's) library.
Then, going to Libray Sync, I press Search for the Library server to be discovered (ok), but what are these File Locations ? Can you please explain the procedure for updating the shared server's library from the client?

Thank you

nwboater · « **Reply #4 on:** October 28, 2009, 09:20:56 am »

I have just setup a WHS machine and had hoped to be able to have a common library reside on it that could be accessed from 3 networked PCs. Although it would be nice to be able to make changes from any of the PCs. it's really only necessary from one.

Although I have been using MC for awhile, I have been using few of its features and am really a beginner at understanding its complexities.

I have been anxiously awaiting a response from JRiver to Glynors post, and as I was writing this a rather discouraging partial answer came in from YannisA.

I am really looking for some direction in setting up my system and have been hoping this thread would give it. If it would be better to start another thread please let me know.

Thanks,
Rod

robydago · « **Reply #5 on:** October 28, 2009, 09:52:37 am »

Quote from: YannisA on October 28, 2009, 05:18:44 am

It's a manual function and, doesn't work for me.
I have the server, where all media is located, running Library server.
I connect to the media files (on the server) from a client, maiking changes to the (client's) library.
Then, going to Libray Sync, I press Search for the Library server to be discovered (ok), but what are these File Locations ? Can you please explain the procedure for updating the shared server's library from the client?

Thank you

To connect to a library server from a client

File > Library > Library Manager > Add

Name: [anything_you_want]
Location: [libraryserver_ip]:[libraryserver_port]

e.g.
Name: MyMediaServer
Location: 192.168.0.10:80

To update a library server from a client

File > Library > Library Sync

YannisA · « **Reply #6 on:** October 30, 2009, 04:22:49 am »

I think I'm missing something

Connecting to the server's library (oh WHS), a certain file (say Madonna's "American Life" song), shows this path to the file:

D:\Shares\Music\Madonna\American Life\01 - Madonna - American Life.flac

From a client keeping a local library, the same file shows the following path:

\\H-SRV\Music\Madonna\American Life\01 - Madonna - American Life.flac

The result is that I cannot sync client's library (the updated one) with server's.

Should I change something to the paths on the server?

robydago · « **Reply #7 on:** October 30, 2009, 04:51:12 am »

@YannisA

an MC library server is not a file server

if:
- on your server MC is not running and/or its Library Server feature is not active
- on your client you are not connecting to the MC library server (see my previous post on how to do that)

then sorry but I don't get what kind of library sync you're talking about, because you're using two separate libraries that are just using the same files

MrHaugen · « **Reply #8 on:** October 30, 2009, 05:00:09 am »

Quote from: glynor on October 22, 2009, 11:12:43 am

Matt... Since someone asked, I'm wondering about using Library Server again in my setup. Currently, I simply have my library database on the file share with my media files, and my various copies of MC access it directly. This works well, but I do get stuck with Read-Only copies of MC if I have more than one copy open at a time. However, I have a few questions...

1) With the new additions, does the Library Server play nice with video files (including MKVs and whatnot)? In the past it did NOT (long delays before starting playback), but I believe Yaobing was working on this.

2) The Library Sync function is still manual, correct? What does this mean? Do I always need to remember to sync back changes whenever they are done from a machine that isn't the server? Most of my changes will be done from my laptop or my HTPC, not from the server, so this isn't very convenient.

3) How about Tremote? If I decide to switch over to using the Library Server, am I still limited to only using Tremote to control the Library Server? I need to be able to use Tremote to control my HTPC. However, my HTPC will NOT be running the Library Server because it is designed to be able to S3 Sleep and be shut down whenever I need without impacting the other machines on the network.

Excellent questions. This is things that I need answers to before I start using Library server as well. The video part is a show stopper, but I think there was a fix. Manual library sync I can handle, for a while, but not being able to use Tremote on my HTPC when you run library server on a different machine is a real bummer.

raym · « **Reply #9 on:** October 30, 2009, 06:21:01 am »

Quote

1) With the new additions, does the Library Server play nice with video files (including MKVs and whatnot)? In the past it did NOT (long delays before starting playback), but I believe Yaobing was working on this.

It was resolved. There's an option under "Library & Folders" called "Play local file if one that matches Library Server is found". I use UNC paths on both client and server so naturally this works great! No more long delays when trying to start a movie like there used to be.

YannisA · « **Reply #10 on:** October 30, 2009, 07:22:37 am »

Quote from: robydago on October 30, 2009, 04:51:12 am

@YannisA

an MC library server is not a file server

if:
- on your server MC is not running and/or its Library Server feature is not active
- on your client you are not connecting to the MC library server (see my previous post on how to do that)

then sorry but I don't get what kind of library sync you're talking about, because you're using two separate libraries that are just using the same files

So what is a "Library sync"? As I said, I'm missing something.
I don't consider the file server to be equal to library server. The media files are stored there, as this machine is always on. I have also installed MC14 and have LS running. I connect to the Library server from a client using "Server_IP:port" and ok, I can see on the client the contents of the library held on the server. But cannot make any changes to it from the client.

The fact is that the server is headless, so I only can remote dektop it, to make changes to it's library, through the MC14 running on it. So what I'm I missing?

robydago · « **Reply #11 on:** October 30, 2009, 08:22:28 am »

Quote from: YannisA on October 30, 2009, 07:22:37 am

But cannot make any changes to it from the client.

what happens when, after you have done on the client some changes on some tags for example, you run the "File > Library > Library Sync" MC command (run it on the client) ??

YannisA · « **Reply #12 on:** October 30, 2009, 08:51:17 am »

Well, I just found the reason. If you look 3-4 posts above, I said:

Connecting to the server's library (oh WHS), a certain file (say Madonna's "American Life" song), shows this path to the file:

D:\Shares\Music\Madonna\American Life\01 - Madonna - American Life.flac

From a client keeping a local library, the same file shows the following path:

\\H-SRV\Music\Madonna\American Life\01 - Madonna - American Life.flac

The solution is to use UNC also on the server (tell the server that media files are located in \\H-SRV\folder\... etc) - Now it works! (though not for cover art).

robydago · « **Reply #13 on:** October 30, 2009, 09:11:28 am »

Quote from: YannisA on October 30, 2009, 08:51:17 am

The solution is to use UNC also on the server (tell the server that media files are located in \\H-SRV\folder\... etc) - Now it works! (though not for cover art).

I don't remember using UNC on my server, but i'll double check when I'm home tonight.

AoXoMoXoA · « **Reply #14 on:** October 30, 2009, 09:35:45 am »

Quote from: YannisA on October 30, 2009, 08:51:17 am

Well, I just found the reason. If you look 3-4 posts above, I said:

Connecting to the server's library (oh WHS), a certain file (say Madonna's "American Life" song), shows this path to the file:

D:\Shares\Music\Madonna\American Life\01 - Madonna - American Life.flac

From a client keeping a local library, the same file shows the following path:

\\H-SRV\Music\Madonna\American Life\01 - Madonna - American Life.flac

The solution is to use UNC also on the server (tell the server that media files are located in \\H-SRV\folder\... etc) - Now it works! (though not for cover art).

This makes sense, but raises a question for me.

What is the advantage of using a UNC file address as opposed to mapping the shared drive and using a local address? I expect there must be pro's & con's to each.

YannisA · « **Reply #15 on:** October 30, 2009, 09:55:23 am »

Quote from: AoXoMoXoA on October 30, 2009, 09:35:45 am

This makes sense, but raises a question for me.

What is the advantage of using a UNC file address as opposed to mapping the shared drive and using a local address? I expect there must be pro's & con's to each.

Well I don't know.
Consider the following topology:

FileServer (Holding media)<----->Library Server<---->Client

For the above, obviously you can map the media folder as (the same, eg X:\) local folder, for both the LS and the client.

However with the following:

Fileserver/LS<------>Client, how can you do the same?

robydago · « **Reply #16 on:** October 30, 2009, 10:40:48 am »

Quote from: YannisA on October 30, 2009, 09:55:23 am

Fileserver/LS<------>Client, how can you do the same?

I never tried to sniff the network traffic, so I'm not sure at all, but my impression is that:

Fileserver<------>FileClient connections use the SMB protocol
LibraryServer<------>LibraryClient connections use some sort of JR proprietary protocol (maybe using HTTP as a transport?)

A FileClient has a local library that will import files that are shared by a file server via windows file sharing (SMB)
A LibraryClient don't use a local library, because it will connect to the MC library server, i.e. as shared by the MC LibraryServer feature

YannisA · « **Reply #17 on:** October 30, 2009, 11:09:05 am »

Agree but, since everyting runs under Windows, for the end-user (what is SMB, CIFS, NFS etc), it should work like Windows and, it does!
Forgot to mention that, it works while I'm not inside my Home Lan, but in the office. So I reach my library through the router at home! I have just opened the relevant port in the router, to point to my WHS who is running LS.
Ok, this needs some more digging but, we're on the way!

robydago · « **Reply #18 on:** October 30, 2009, 11:21:58 am »

But If LibraryServer<------>LibraryClient connections really use some sort of JR proprietary protocol, then how MC running on the server is accessing the files imported in its library (local hard disks, UNC or letter mapped to itself, UNC or letter mapped to a different file server) should not matter at all.

If no official JR documentations is available, I guess that only sniffing an MC client connecting to a library server will clarify this issue.

YannisA · « **Reply #19 on:** October 30, 2009, 11:43:24 am »

I guess you raise two different questions
1. If Mc (server and clients) are using some kind of proprietary protocol
- I believe, YES
2. How the server is accessing the newlly imported files
- Well, by default it monitors the "import folders" (irrespective of being a LS or, just a standalone MC). Just add a file there and the next moment, it will be present in the library.

And of course, documentation in the Wiki is outdated and missing half of the features of the app, being updated every three days. (I'm still running .71 and the most recent version is now .90, in just 35 days - Think of updating 3-4 pcs every time!) The best documentation you can "discover" is, by participating to the Interact/support forum.

PS As have mentioned in another thread, MC has stopped prompting the user that "A new version of MC14 is available". (?)

JimH · « **Reply #20 on:** October 30, 2009, 11:50:12 am »

Quote from: YannisA on October 30, 2009, 11:43:24 am

.. As have mentioned in another thread, MC has stopped prompting the user that "A new version of MC14 is available". (?)

http://wiki.jrmediacenter.com/index.php/Updates

robydago · « **Reply #21 on:** October 30, 2009, 11:56:11 am »

Quote from: YannisA on October 30, 2009, 11:43:24 am

- Well, by default it monitors the "import folders" (irrespective of being a LS or, just a standalone MC). Just add a file there and the next moment, it will be present in the library.

What I meant is how one sets MC to access the imported folders, i.e. when adding a folder to import, what does one select as its root.

The typical options are:
- a drive letter poiting to a local hard disk
- a UNC or a drive letter mapped to the MC server itself (so basically you're still accessing the local hard disks)
- a UNC or drive letter mapped to a remote windows file server (no MC needed on the remote server)

You could use any of the above methods , but all above methods of accessing files or directories should not matter if the Library Server is sharing the files using a proprietary protocol.

JimH · « **Reply #22 on:** November 03, 2009, 08:35:44 am »

Quote from: YannisA on October 28, 2009, 05:18:44 am

It's a manual function and, doesn't work for me.
I have the server, where all media is located, running Library server.
I connect to the media files (on the server) from a client, maiking changes to the (client's) library.
Then, going to Libray Sync, I press Search for the Library server to be discovered (ok), but what are these File Locations ? Can you please explain the procedure for updating the shared server's library from the client?

There are a lot of servers involved, so maybe there is some confusion, too.

For Library Sync to work, you need to be running Library Server on the remote server. When you say this:

Quote

Then, going to Libray Sync, I press Search for the Library server to be discovered (ok), but what are these File Locations ?

it sounds like you're making changes first, then establishing a Library Server session. Library Sync wouldn't have any effect in that case. It only syncs the changes made after the Library Server started.

In general, Library Sync does work. It just doesn't sync everything. It does have limitations. We hope to improve this in the next few months.

YannisA · « **Reply #23 on:** November 03, 2009, 10:02:19 am »

You are right (of course).
I have to be connected to Library server to be able to Sync Library. But I have found that, if the library server is not using UNC, then I can't sync.

One more point.
My laptop is a member of my work's domain. When at home, where I use the "Home" Workgroup, I can't play video (from Video_Ts folders or avi files) on my laptop, when connecting to LS. But can play flac music and display photos (isn't this strange, or what?)
Other computers in the workgroup, play all.
Can you confirm/reject that?
thanks

JimH · « **Reply #24 on:** November 03, 2009, 10:15:28 am »

Quote from: YannisA on November 03, 2009, 10:02:19 am

I have to be connected to Library server to be able to Sync Library. But I have found that, if the library server is not using UNC, then I can't sync.

Is the media on the same machine as the Library Server?

YannisA · « **Reply #25 on:** November 03, 2009, 10:50:52 am »

The media is on the WHS machine, running MC and LS.
Thanks for replying.

Pjotr · « **Reply #26 on:** November 04, 2009, 04:58:29 am »

Hi,

I have struggled a long time with this problem. I have my media on a media share on a central NAS in the house which runs Linux.

My current solution is rather simple: On each PC I have the media share on the NAS mounted as a network disk with a drive letter assigned to it and on each PC with MC, I have a local library named “Server”. These libraries a set for auto import the media on the NAS and each on their own watch the media share on the NAS for changes. You can split this up and make separate libraries for music, video and images each pointing to the particular location on the NAS.

The media on the share are maintained through my main desktop PC. But it can be done from other PC’s as well, the auto import on each PC keeps track of the changes then. Maybe this approach sounds a bit crude but it works fine for me. The various music players (internet radios) in the house are served by the UPnP/DLNA streaming service that runs on the NAS.

lazy · « **Reply #27 on:** November 04, 2009, 08:19:51 am »

Quote from: JimH on November 03, 2009, 08:35:44 am

There are a lot of servers involved, so maybe there is some confusion, too.

For Library Sync to work, you need to be running Library Server on the remote server. When you say this:it sounds like you're making changes first, then establishing a Library Server session. Library Sync wouldn't have any effect in that case. It only syncs the changes made after the Library Server started.

In general, Library Sync does work. It just doesn't sync everything. It does have limitations. We hope to improve this in the next few months.

The Library Sync work, but I don't see why the features that has been working in the earlier versions are removed.
The Last played and Number plays used to be automatically updated from the client to the server, but are now disabled in MC 14, and you'll have to remember to do this manually. Can we please have these features back as auto updates ? MC 14 doesn't work properly for me the way it is now. If you are going to do more work on this feature, please reimplement this.

Lasse

tcman41 · « **Reply #28 on:** November 04, 2009, 03:46:37 pm »

Wow, my head hurts.

TC

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Author Topic: A way to have a centralized common library? (Read 4728 times)